On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 14:18:57 -0700, Tony Alfrey wrote:

This is what might be called the "apples versus oranges" logical fallacy.

Strikes me more as a "all people really care about is being able to run the applications they're used to" sort of thing than any sort of logical fallacy. It stands to reason that if people are presented with something familiar, they're happy. Perhaps the fallacy is that the OS even really matters any more for the vast majority of users. They want a tool that gets the job done with a minimum of fuss or retraining. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-06-19 01:48, Tony Alfrey wrote:

Jim Henderson wrote:

Many people seemed to have missed my point. The user was satisfied with the performance of Firefox. It doesn't appear that their experience had much to do with KDE, or linux in general.

Exactly, they did not care at all what was running. They did not even notice , it simply worked. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-06-19 03:56, John Andersen wrote:

On 6/18/2014 6:54 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2014-06-19 01:48, Tony Alfrey wrote:

...

Jim Henderson wrote:

...

...

Many people seemed to have missed my point. The user was satisfied with the performance of Firefox. It doesn't appear that their experience had much to do with KDE, or linux in general.

...

Exactly, they did not care at all what was running. They did not even notice , it simply worked.

You assume the OP went over to their house and started firefox every day for them?

Clearly they had to interact with much of the other parts of KDE.

Actually, in my case it was Gnome 2 :-) Yes, they started FF on their own the second time. I was doing an experiment. I could have booted Windows in the same laptop, if absolutely needed, but I preferred not to, in case it got infected with something. So I silently handled it over with Linux... and it worked. But I set the machine myself, and I'm an expert. No way these people could have installed Linux, nor Windows. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 21:05:59 -0700 Tony Alfrey <tonyalfrey@earthlink.net> wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2014-06-19 03:56, John Andersen wrote:

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On 6/18/2014 6:54 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2014-06-19 01:48, Tony Alfrey wrote:

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Jim Henderson wrote: Many people seemed to have missed my point. The user was satisfied with the performance of Firefox. It doesn't appear that their experience had much to do with KDE, or linux in general. Exactly, they did not care at all what was running. They did not even notice , it simply worked. You assume the OP went over to their house and started firefox every day for them?

Clearly they had to interact with much of the other parts of KDE.

Actually, in my case it was Gnome 2 :-) Yes, they started FF on their own the second time.

I was doing an experiment. I could have booted Windows in the same laptop, if absolutely needed, but I preferred not to, in case it got infected with something. So I silently handled it over with Linux... and it worked.

But I set the machine myself, and I'm an expert. No way these people could have installed Linux, nor Windows.

But they /could/ have installed OS X.

Really, even in a multi-boot environment? -- "To be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others."  - Nelson Mandela ^^ --... ...-- / -.- --. --... -.-. ..-. -.-. ^^^^ Tom Taylor KG7CFC openSUSE 13.1 (64-bit), Kernel 3.11.6-4-default, KDE 4.11.2, AMD Phenom X4 955, GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Nvidia 325.15) 16GB RAM -- 3x1.5TB sata2 -- 128GB-SSD FF 27.0, claws-mail 3.10.0 registered linux user 263467 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Le 19/06/2014 07:57, Tony Alfrey a écrit :

But then one might ask "why bother with a multiboot environment if OS X does it all?". Indeed, there are a few apps that either require Windows or Linux. Then I use a virtual machine.

yes, but not everything works on virtual machine (specifically usb drivers), and what if you main OS is not the primary one? jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-06-19 08:26, C wrote:

On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 8:21 AM, jdd <> wrote:

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yes, but not everything works on virtual machine (specifically usb drivers), and what if you main OS is not the primary one?

Is that past experience or current? I'm not encountering any issues with USB devices on my VMs of late. I use VMWare Player though.. not VirtualBox.

I no longer own a specific hardware that would not connect via usb to a virtualized Windows guest. It did work for a year or so, till the manufacturer changed the driver, and it stopped working. And there was no question of going back to the previous driver, as that would mean going back in the support application, which then would refuse to pull upgrades. The device was a TomTom Go 550. I had to switch to double booting Windows instead. My guess is that they use some type of internal usb driver, not the system driver, for security, aka secrecy, reasons of their own. Perhaps relying on some specific timings. It is very /curious/ that manufacturers sell many gadgets running Linux internally, while they absolutely refuse to do the necessary desktop support application for Linux. Windows, sometimes macs, but never ever Linux. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-06-19 10:20, jdd wrote:

Le 19/06/2014 09:57, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

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It is very /curious/ that manufacturers sell many gadgets running Linux internally, while they absolutely refuse to do the necessary desktop support application for Linux. Windows, sometimes macs, but never ever Linux.

too easy to hack?

by the way I have a second computer (light laptop for use when moving) that I use to such things. Tomtom was a several hours for dl a mre 2Gb map. I now have a garmin, no so better :-(

The TomTom GO 550 was nice. It mounted as a standard usb stick to the computer, which you could access even from Linux, and change files if you wanted, or make backups. There were several third party applications (for Windows) that allowed you to convert all your favorites marks to point of interests (PDI in Spanish), or edit them in a map with mouse and keyboard. Alter their names or data, move them around, backup, restore on a different machine. Change icons, backgrounds, photos, etc. Mine was stolen. It had a password, but that was no obstacle, I think. Now I have a Live 1000. It has cute features, like a slow Internet connection via cellular network, that should work all over Europe with the same contract (I have not tested this), which is used for things like getting satellite sync data for fast startup, road radar placements (in Spain that part is fully legal), and traffic load, which allows the device to automatically suggest a route change on congestion. On the other hand, it is really closed. The computer sees nothing. An encrypted PPP connection, I think. It is impossible to read or copy files, except those limited tasks that the Windows web-based application of theirs allow. I hate that, but I was not aware of it when I bought it. You have to pay for the map subscription, plus the live services subscription, which is nice but relatively expensive. They charge for everything. For instance, if you want the thing to warn you of some new traffic lights that take a photo if you pass them in red, that's extra. Or warn of a tunnel that has a camera on entry and exit, used for automatic calculation of /your/ average speed, that's extra. The trick is storing those sites as "POI", points of interest, and have the device beep. Good, they are communities generating them. But installing those community POIS has become more difficult, because the third party applications that automatically downloaded them from internet and uploaded to the device, no longer work. They closed the device intentionally. The mapping and routing and instructions on the go (3D) are real good, though. I have seen other devices, included by the manufacturer on cars, and they are much worse. But being close, they don't create nor let others create new features. Like, for instance, finding a stopping place en-route, for gas, rest, food, coffee, etc, with a tap or two on the screen. With gas prices of the nearby stations, which is something I get for free on Android. Being the Live model, I can ask for the weather on places. But it has no function to tell me of bad weather conditions on the route I have just programmed. You can select routes to be the fastest, the shorter, etc. But not the easiest: Spain is hilly, and the theoretically "better" route can be a high and winding mountain pass 5 meter wide, with 40 Km/h maximum real speed (not the higher legal limit). Or, I would prefer a route minimizing turns and changes, wanting to keep to the main roads and streets as long as possible, specially when the way is unknown to me. Sometimes the suggested crossings are complicated, busy, and slow to navigate. A longer route is then much faster and safer, having wide "rotonda" (circus plaza?) or traffic lightsm and being wide and straight. Sometimes it tells me to go some way, and it is impossible because the road is closed, it is a dirt road, wrong way, whatever. I do not have time at the crossing to make a map correction. I just want a button to say "NO", that instruction you are telling me to do is impossible to comply with, choose an alternative now and fast. Ask me later, on arrival, why (record a voice comment on the spot, for instance). When I insist on going a different way than the one it calculates, it wants me to go back. I want a button to tell it to "I want to go this way", shut up. It has no heuristics to adapt to my ways. I may take a route often, and it always proposes the "wrong" one, which I ignore. After many days, it has not learned. It does not heed "recommendations" by the authorities. It tells you what it thinks it is the best route, not what the authorities tell you is the best one (and it often really is). There is no avenue by the authorities to quickly tell them of road repairs, closed routes, new speed limits, etc. Being a live model, they could even tell you of accidents ahead, fog, snow, etc. But they don't, AFAIR. Very limitedly if any. This would be a very useful feature for the traffic authorities, so best thing would be a mandatory European regulation. Map changes, even when reported, take about two years to be written, unless it is Madrid and an important road. The device has internet. But you can not report it stolen and disable it remotely, or have it report itself to the authorities, AFAIK. It has no magnetic orientation sensors, as mobile phones have. Thus, on start, it /always/ assumes I'm pointing on the wrong direction and wants me to turn back, till I start moving and it finds out. It also makes difficult deciding turns on narrow streets or crossings with several avenues. Long city tunnels, with internal multiple deviations, are a nightmare (talking from the point of view of a non-this-city-resident). A map is impossible (no GPS detection), so better simply show a list of instructions. The device could then use dead recogning (bad spelling?) or inertial navigation, but no such luck. It could get data from the car speedometer... or authorities could add infrared or short distance radio beacons. It could have an incorporated web cam, recording the road (for accidents and other events). And notes recorder. er... O:-) (long rant, gosh!) However, still I have not seen, used by friends, better GPS gadgets than mine... maybe they exist, I just have not seen them. Somewhat better tomtom models, yes, a bit. Not all of the above, AFAIK, by long distance! Preferably with Linux and scriptable ;.-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-06-19 13:39, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Now I have a Live 1000.

...

is fully legal), and traffic load, which allows the device to automatically suggest a route change on congestion.

My Garmin also has the traffic congestion feature, but it doesn't really work very well. I turned it off long ago - often there will be reports of minor congestion somewhere on my route, and the Garmin calculates an alternative route. The problem is - the alternative almost always takes longer than it takes for the congestion to clear up.

Here it works reasonably well - in Madrid, not where I live. Apparently it works by getting automatic speed reports from other users. If there are few users, it does not work. Possibly they also get reports from the police, so it depends on how fast these react. Sometimes it allowed me to avoid very big traffic jams; on other occasions it was useless (too late warning, no warning, or warning when not needed: all flavours).

...

For instance, if you want the thing to warn you of some new traffic lights that take a photo if you pass them in red, that's extra.

Ignoring a red light is presumably also extra :-)

Oh, absolutely. But these things are trigger happy. Here it is legal to cross a light in yellow (or was). The problem is if it switches to red when you are in the middle. The normal people interpretation is to stop with yellow light if it does not force you to brake brusquely, because you very much risk a rear bump. The only accident I was involved with, was because I stopped for a pedestrian on a crossing where he had the preference, doing it fast, and the car behind not stopping and hitting me (and the pedestrian disappeared, leaving me no witness). Drivers here do not expect you to stop fast on a yellow light, or on a pedestrian crossing, so it is dangerous to stop too soon. You have to stop smoothly and looking on the mirror... but if the traffic light has a camera, you do have to stop on yellow.

...

But being close, they don't create nor let others create new features. Like, for instance, finding a stopping place en-route, for gas, rest, food, coffee, etc, with a tap or two on the screen. With gas prices of the nearby stations, which is something I get for free on Android.

Even the petrol prices? That's pretty advanced, I wonder how they do that. (prices vary very little around here, but it's an interesting feature).

Yes, we have an app for that. Apparently, gas stations are obliged to inform some central authority of their prices, at least once a week, often more; thus somebody created an android app for it (for Spain only). There is also a list somewhere on a government web page, so they pull the info from there. (near my present location, diesel prices vary from 1.250€ to 1.369€) With interesting side effects. Apparently, the official index of prices of goods (a collection of goods listed some where, perhaps an EU normative) is calculated with Monday prices. Apparently as well there was a secret government request to lower gas prices on Mondays... so that the global prices look officially lower than they are, because they go back up on Tuesdays :-} Another explanation is that prices go up on Fridays, to catch the weekenders, and go back to normal on Mondays. It is probably both things. The Android app considers the reported prices of the petrol, the distance and how much you use per kilometer, in order to calculate how much it costs you to get to each station. It also knows how much you use per kilometer, and much your tank holds, to calculate how much you save. And it also considers the different rebates available on each station affiliation (or brand name). Pretty nifty app (www.mobialia.com). Free, with commercials. I have to recognize that Android have got a very large set of of interesting applications, specially those that give information or services that depend on your present location. The problem is that they are, on the whole, pretty intrusive, collecting data about you. Hopefully not you as individual, but as part of masses, as statistics. We (Linux) have lost that market, or niche.

...

Or, I would prefer a route minimizing turns and changes, wanting to keep to the main roads and streets as long as possible, specially when the way is unknown to me.

You can't select "Main roads only", "no toll-roads", or "no ferries" etc?

No tolls and no ferries, yes. Main roads I think not. Not dirt roads, yes.

...

It has no heuristics to adapt to my ways. I may take a route often, and it always proposes the "wrong" one, which I ignore. After many days, it has not learned.

I have seen systems that had an option of "never go through xxxx", for instance.

That's something, at least. But also needed is "when going from A to B, go always via C".

...

There is no avenue by the authorities to quickly tell them of road repairs, closed routes, new speed limits, etc.

Don't you have traffic information via the FM radio? I'm pretty certain the Garmin works with that too.

My car radio has that, but I have never ever seen a warning on it. I don't thus know if my TomTom uses it, but having an internet connection it can get them that way. I do have seen TomTom manuals speaking of using the FM traffic info somehow. Via internet I guess that they get the exact map info. When I power up my TomTom and it connects, I see a brief message like "got 20 incidents info". And yes, on long trips I get correct information about road repairs in my route, but I do not get any information about municipal incidents or repairs, even if they take months.

...

Being a live model, they could even tell you of accidents ahead, fog, snow, etc. But they don't, AFAIR. Very limitedly if any. This would be a very useful feature for the traffic authorities, so best thing would be a mandatory European regulation.

Traffic information ssystems have been available for at least twenty years, but I don't know how many countries have implemented them. Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Denmark I know of.

That's a big problem, true. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2014-06-19 15:42, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

Many many years when I was a student I worked weekends at a petrol station - on my way into town in the early morning, I always took note of the petrol prices. My boss would then call up at 0700 amd we would decide whether to adjust prices or not. Noone was ever told about it.

Apparently it is mandatory here. I'm not sure about the frequency, I think it must be once a week. More than that it appears to be voluntary. This app has a setting to ignore stations that have not reported their price for a defined number of days. I don't know how they do the reporting, it must be something automatic, like sending email in a certain format, or filling a form. Well, that would be automatic on the receiving end, not on the sender ;-)

...

The Android app considers the reported prices of the petrol, the distance and how much you use per kilometer, in order to calculate how much it costs you to get to each station.

Haha, very clever!

It is indeed.

...

I have to recognize that Android have got a very large set of of ... We (Linux) have lost that market, or niche.

Actually, we (Linux) _own_ that niche. Android is Linux under the covers, remember :-)

Not really. Or yes and no. Android has a Linux core deep inside, but they (Google) don't update it. There is a proprietary layer on top of it, made by Google, and the are moving functionality to it - even the keyboard (or the advanced one). To create any useful Android app, you need to use that proprietary layer. And doing so ties you, as a dev. I had an article that explored this in good depth, but I can't locate it.

The Garmin uses it by default, I'm sure it has a built-in FM radio, that would be easy to do. If you've never heard/seen anything on your radio, maybe nothing is being sent.

It can be that, yes. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 6/19/2014 12:19 PM, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2014-06-19 15:42, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Many many years when I was a student I worked weekends at a petrol station - on my way into town in the early morning, I always took note of the petrol prices. My boss would then call up at 0700 amd we would decide whether to adjust prices or not. Noone was ever told about it.

Apparently it is mandatory here. I'm not sure about the frequency, I think it must be once a week. More than that it appears to be voluntary. This app has a setting to ignore stations that have not reported their price for a defined number of days.

I don't know how they do the reporting, it must be something automatic, like sending email in a certain format, or filling a form.

Still quite interesting that there would even be such a system.

How they did it then, is anybody's guess. Now days its crowd sourced: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gbis.gbandroid Anywhere in the States you can use this app to determine which of the upcoming stations has the best price, so you don't have to drive all over comparing prices. Users can report prices that they find, while pumping gas. You can also report the prices across the street, because they often have large enough signs to be seen that far. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-06-19 21:19, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

I think you're at least partially wrong. A couple of months ago I bought a Minix Neo x7, it's a little box that I want to run mythTV on. It came with Android and I have the kernel source, by way of someone who contacted the manufacturer. Based on that kernel source (and lots of other people's work), I've got it running openSUSE (almost). Whatever Google (and manufacturers) choose to put on top it is their business, yes, but underneath Android is Linux, period.

Well, yes, of course, but then you are using your own Linux, not the Android one.

I could run the Android version though, but I think it will be easier to make the openSUSE kernel run with the rest of the distro.

...

...

To create any useful Android app, you need to use that proprietary layer. And doing so ties you, as a dev.

Sure, same when you're writing a KDE application.

Not quite.

For instance, this paragraph:

+++················· The Google Maps API allows you to use Google's map data in your application. It's extremely handy for things like overlying the weather on top of a map or showing location in a travel app. The only problem is, it's part of Google services and not part of Android. Relying on the Maps API means your app will not work on a non-Google-approved device. ·················++-

Every Android-based device is Google approved, afaik. I don't see your point?

It is a closed ecosystem. Yes, there is Linux underneath, at the very bottom; but it is in fact a closed operating system and ecosystem.

Sure, I'm not saying it is all open source, only that a very important part of Android is Linux. When as a developer you chose to write an application for CICS|Android KDE|OS2PM|what|ever, you get "tied" into that. Only if you pick an environment that is cross-platform do you escape being tied in. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (17.2°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 20.06.2014 15:16, schrieb Carlos E. R.:

On 2014-06-20 08:50, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

It is a closed ecosystem. Yes, there is Linux underneath, at the very bottom; but it is in fact a closed operating system and ecosystem.

Sure, I'm not saying it is all open source, only that a very important part of Android is Linux. When as a developer you chose to write an application for CICS|Android KDE|OS2PM|what|ever, you get "tied" into that. Only if you pick an environment that is cross-platform do you escape being tied in.

My point is that android apps are not Linux apps, and do not live in a Linux environment. They live in a 90% proprietary environment, and 10% Linux and open environment, more or less.

The importance of the Linux part in Android is less and less every month, intentionally. They are not updating it, and they are moving needed functionality over to the proprietary section.

They only need the kernel and little more.

Thus I can't agree with saying that Android is Linux.

Linux is an operating system. Android is a surveillance tool that, incidentally, can make phone calls, too. -- -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona professional photography: http://www.daniel-bauer.com google+: https://plus.google.com/109534388657020287386 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-06-20 08:50, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

It is a closed ecosystem. Yes, there is Linux underneath, at the very bottom; but it is in fact a closed operating system and ecosystem.

Sure, I'm not saying it is all open source, only that a very important part of Android is Linux. When as a developer you chose to write an application for CICS|Android KDE|OS2PM|what|ever, you get "tied" into that. Only if you pick an environment that is cross-platform do you escape being tied in.

My point is that android apps are not Linux apps, and do not live in a Linux environment. They live in a 90% proprietary environment, and 10% Linux and open environment, more or less.

AFAIK, Android applications are written in Java and run on the Dalvik JVM (with Apache licence). I guess you're right in saying they're not exactly Linux applications, although you could say the same about a PHP script. I also don't know about your claim that 90% is proprietary when the OS and the JVM are both open source. The rest is just some Java code and associated Java libraries, quite likely with some native support code.

They only need the kernel and little more. Thus I can't agree with saying that Android is Linux.

That's ok, we'll have to agree to disagree then :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (22.4°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On June 19, 2014 9:24:51 PM EDT, "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:

On 2014-06-19 21:19, Per Jessen wrote:

...

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

I don't know how they do the reporting, it must be something automatic, like sending email in a certain format, or filling a form.

Still quite interesting that there would even be such a system.

Well, yes. :-)

...

...

...

Actually, we (Linux) _own_ that niche. Android is Linux under the covers, remember :-)

Not really. Or yes and no.

Android has a Linux core deep inside, but they (Google) don't update it. There is a proprietary layer on top of it, made by Google, and the are moving functionality to it - even the keyboard (or the advanced one).

I think you're at least partially wrong. A couple of months ago I bought a Minix Neo x7, it's a little box that I want to run mythTV on. It came with Android and I have the kernel source, by way of someone who contacted the manufacturer. Based on that kernel source (and lots of other people's work), I've got it running openSUSE (almost). Whatever Google (and manufacturers) choose to put on top it is their business, yes, but underneath Android is Linux, period.

Well, yes, of course, but then you are using your own Linux, not the Android one.

...

...

To create any useful Android app, you need to use that proprietary layer. And doing so ties you, as a dev.

Sure, same when you're writing a KDE application.

Not quite.

Have a read on these two articles:

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/neither-microsoft-noki...

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controll...

For instance, this paragraph:

+++················· The Google Maps API allows you to use Google's map data in your application. It's extremely handy for things like overlying the weather on top of a map or showing location in a travel app. The only problem is, it's part of Google services and not part of Android. Relying on the Maps API means your app will not work on a non-Google-approved device. ·················++-

It is a closed ecosystem. Yes, there is Linux underneath, at the very bottom; but it is in fact a closed operating system and ecosystem.

I have a Amazon Fire. I gather it is a non-Google-approved device. If I try get an app from the Google store, I get rejected. I can find many/most of the apps I care about on the Amazon store. I have also "side-loaded" a few apps. That involves downloading the rpm equivalent to a true android, then copying that to the fire to install. That typically works for apps not built by Google. Google owns Waze (I think) so it likely won't work on the Fire. I may try it this weekend. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> [06-19-14 09:06]: [...]

My car radio has that, but I have never ever seen a warning on it. I don't thus know if my TomTom uses it, but having an internet connection it can get them that way. I do have seen TomTom manuals speaking of using the FM traffic info somehow.

Via internet I guess that they get the exact map info. When I power up my TomTom and it connects, I see a brief message like "got 20 incidents info". And yes, on long trips I get correct information about road repairs in my route, but I do not get any information about municipal incidents or repairs, even if they take months.

I have found the android app, waze, to be about the best. Informs about traffic, road hazzards, provides current speed, good location services, can advise gas prices, .... And it's free and interactive. You can advise congestion has increased or lessened, hazards are clear, police officers are no longer present...... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2014-06-19 16:43, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. <> [06-19-14 09:06]:

...

I have found the android app, waze, to be about the best. Informs about traffic, road hazzards, provides current speed, good location services, can advise gas prices, ....

And it's free and interactive. You can advise congestion has increased or lessened, hazards are clear, police officers are no longer present......

Nice.

But I don't have a suitable android device to put on my car, and I absolutely do not want to use my mobile phone for that task. Too intrusive. Android belongs to Google, and they track us. I like the apps and the features, but not the tracking part.

We need to change $SUBJ to "wayyyyy OT" before long - Android is Linux, you can have the source code whenever you want. Also, I doubt if the many various makers of products running Android would want to deal with the lawsuits were anyone to find out that their device had a secret call-home facility. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 2014-06-19 06:05, Tony Alfrey wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Actually, in my case it was Gnome 2 :-) Yes, they started FF on their own the second time.

I was doing an experiment. I could have booted Windows in the same laptop, if absolutely needed, but I preferred not to, in case it got infected with something. So I silently handled it over with Linux... and it worked.

But I set the machine myself, and I'm an expert. No way these people could have installed Linux, nor Windows.

But they /could/ have installed OS X.

Nope. These need detailed instructions to write/read files from a usb stick. No way they can install any system whatsoever. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

John Andersen wrote:

You assume the OP went over to their house and started firefox every day for them? Clearly they had to interact with much of the other parts of KDE.

---- ??? I run on windows, and FF on Suse13.1 (as well as native). It comes up every once in a while, when I am running other SW that refers to a URL. There are **MANY** more errors in 13.1 than in any previous version -- this is true for many desktop apps that are using the poorly designed desktop communications now present in 13.1. It works poorly, or not at all for users remotely logging in, and strongly compatibility in this regard. Requiring the rest of the world update because Suse's software isn't compatible with over a decade of established compatibility, via X and not needing specia sessions or a special kind of rear-seat to have things working: Many of the apps I've used no longer work because they were changed by idjots who have no fallback if they can't contact the new multi-seat interface that means nothing to a solo user other than massive constipation of things that used to work to arrange for multi-flow design for which most users have no extra orifices to make use of with the multi-seat design. By making multi-seat work, they've made the default case break for many users who use suse via previously compatible standards that suse is abandoning. Sure... setup someone with their needed apps, and a monkey can use OS. But have then install it from new or deal with an upgrade... That takes a "system administrator", not an end user. That doesn't make for an easy, user friendly interface. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 16:48:19 -0700, Tony Alfrey wrote:

Many people seemed to have missed my point. The user was satisfied with the performance of Firefox. It doesn't appear that their experience had much to do with KDE, or linux in general.

I understood that completely. I was actually agreeing with you and emphasizing that users generally care little about the platform, as long as they can use familiar programs and get stuff done. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/19/2014 01:22 AM, David C. Rankin wrote:

Seriously, SuSE/openSuSE has always had one of the easiest installs.

Generally speaking, it is an easy install. However, I recently installed 13.1 on an old HP computer and I had to ask here for help installing it. I found I had to enter the command "nomodeset" when booting the install DVD. I also had to go into the CMOS to disable the non-existent floppy drive. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org