Roger, your recent review of SuSE 7.1 could almost be called "bogus." You complain that server utilities aren't included in the distro....are you blind, or just can't find your way around any system. The same with the manuals. As for Linux being a costly replacement for Win....WRONG again! I've almost half my department here now as SuSE Linux, and by the end of this year, I hope it will be 100%! SuSE installs quicker than anything from MickySoft, StarOffice provides SOLID NON-crashing business apps., and Konqueror and Kmail handle the rest that our staff requires. Users "convert" to using SuSE VERY quickly, and WON'T go back to using 'Bloze of any flavor. Did I mention security? Don't even think about that with M$! I don't mind a writer having a differing view. What I don't like is incompetence or deliberate distortion. Fred A. Miller
Today, Mar 27, Fred A. Miller wrote:
Roger, your recent review of SuSE 7.1 could almost be called "bogus." You complain that server utilities aren't included in the distro....are you blind, or just can't find your way around any system. The same with the manuals.
[rest snipped for brevity] While I agree with most of your points Fred, I fear that the angry tone and insults do little to paint a positive picture of the Linux community. Please don't take that personally, but perhaps well thought out, articulate letters are more appropriate... Ken -- Flappity, floppity, flip The mouse on the mobius strip; The strip revolved, The mouse dissolved In a chronodimensional skip.
Roger, your recent review of SuSE 7.1 could almost be called "bogus." You complain that server utilities aren't included in the distro....are you blind, or just can't find your way around any system. The same with the manuals.
As for Linux being a costly replacement for Win....WRONG again! I've almost half my department here now as SuSE Linux, and by the end of this year, I hope it will be 100%! SuSE installs quicker than anything from MickySoft, StarOffice provides SOLID NON-crashing business apps., and Konqueror and Kmail handle the rest that our staff requires. Users "convert" to using SuSE VERY quickly, and WON'T go back to using 'Bloze of any flavor. Did I mention security? Don't even think about that with M$!
I can tell you are young, maybe out of college, maybe not. I am a huge fan of Linux, I have been a Unix Admin for 8 years now and have been using Linux since like kernel 0.97 when you had to compile your own from the jump, however, Linux is not an ideal replacement for the Windows desktop. While most developers and other technical staff can intuitively function on a Linux box with a relateively short learning curve, the other half of the company cannot. You have obviously never seen the cost of training and the costs of administrative overhead. If you were to place a Linux desktop in a non-technical department, say HR for example, the learning curve/lack of productivity alone would outweight the cost of Microsoft. You must then figure in that Linux admins cost twice as much as NT admins and you will probably need 1 per every 100 desktops I am guessing (Our Sun/SGI desktop support guy has 45 clients and he keeps him real busy). I have been using Star Office for probably 4 years now, but my productivity on the Windows platform with MS Office is a lot higher. That is why I have 2 PC's and a switchbox on my desk. A properly configured NT 4 or W2K workstation can function decent enough for the non-technical users. You also forget that 95% of the business world produces documents/messaging/collaboration is Windows dependant applications and proprietary formats. (Or was your business going to succeed by only dealing with Unix-centric partners and customers?) Do not get me wrong, I daydream of a future where Linux is on every desktop. I personally prefer a Mac OS X box instead of a Windoze machine, but still the same. Linux has it's place and on the desktop, corporate wide, is not it. For what its worth, I just convinced my company to switch an Oracle database piece of a clinical data system we sell that consists of SGI/IRIX hardware to Intel/SuSE. If I can prove it is reliable enough, I just increased the profit margin on that piece of our product significantly. (The current SGI system costs us about $90,000 plus the cost of the software we develop, I am piecing a comparable system using Intel/SuSe for about $40,000, which most of that cost coming from disk storage/RAID technology) This is where Linux kicks azz. I am all for Linux in the back office/extranet, just not on the desktop of some 9-5, I can give a damn about learning how to use my PC, HR chic/dude. (sorry if there are any HR people here, but if you are here, you are probably technical, so this does not apply) As for Linux distro's not having the 'tools' & 'utilities', try using a pre-2.x kernel distro. Linux has come a very long way and SuSE is at the top IMHO. just my 2 bits, -CC
I don't mind a writer having a differing view. What I don't like is incompetence or deliberate distortion.
Fred A. Miller
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* SuSe List User (suse@rhugga.org) [010327 16:09]: => =>I can tell you are young, maybe out of college, maybe not. => *laugh* Hey Fred..you got a compliment..ya old fart ;) -- Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org ----- If two men agree on everything, you can be sure that only one of them is doing the thinking.
Hi: On Tuesday 27 March 2001 18:00, you wrote:
I am a huge fan of Linux, I have been a Unix Admin for 8 years now and have been using Linux since like kernel 0.97 when you had to compile your own from the jump, however, Linux is not an ideal replacement for the Windows desktop. While most developers and other technical staff can intuitively function on a Linux box with a relatively short learning curve, the other half of the company cannot. You have obviously never seen the cost of training and the costs of administrative overhead. If you were to place a Linux desktop in a non-technical department, say HR for example, the learning curve/lack of productivity alone would outweight the cost of Microsoft.
However steep the learning curve may be with Linux it is certainly a better desktop OS than M$ and therefor worth adopting. I have to use M$ at my work, at the FDA, and Kword , Kspread and Killustrator are, even in their newly minted form, much better than M$ Office 97. First off Excel does not round numbers properly and requires the use of =ROUND(*, 4) everywhere. Kspread does not suffer from this defect. Secondly Kspread embeddings do not dissappear or "Opaque" in Kword as they do in M$ Office. M$ has a nasty habit of locking up after you have saved a large and complex document many times. This prevents it from being saved. This has not happened with Kword yet. The scrolling and cut and paste features in M$ word are really erratic. Excel embedments in Word leave grid line artifacts at times that cannot be gotten rid of. M$ runs slow and is ponderous. It also does not come with Scilab, Octave or compilers. M$ has nothing like Xfig or Killustrator. True it has M$ Paint but AFAIK it cannot draw reqular polygons and so is worthless for rendering cyclical compounds. Finally it crashes too much. When M$ goes down it wipes out a major portion of my lab report. Let me tell you it is no joke to have to retype all that stuff. IMHO M$ survived because there was no competition. Basically Apple committed suicide after it hired a PepsiCola salesman to be their CEO. Now that KDE 2 is here Mr. Gates and company are as a helpless as a sheep before Tyrannosaurs Rex. Just my $0.02. -- Cheers, Jonathan
Hi Fred, Gotta agree with you on everything but one part...
from MickySoft, StarOffice provides SOLID NON-crashing business apps.,
I must say that in my experience, StarOffice is anything but "NON-crashing." :-) It crashed more and is a lot less intuitve than MS Office on Win2k. Then again, I'll live with it and WP8 until KOffice becomes more polished... -Tim -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Timothy R. Butler Universal Networks Information Tech. Consultant Christian Web Services Since 1996 ICQ #12495932 AIM: Uninettm An Authorized IPSwitch Reseller tbutler@uninetsolutions.com http://www.uninetsolutions.com ============== "Information Powered by Innovation" ==============
On Tue, Mar 27, 2001 at 10:49:22PM -0600, Timothy R. Butler allegedly said:
I must say that in my experience, StarOffice is anything but "NON-crashing." :-) It crashed more and is a lot less intuitve than MS Office on Win2k. Then again, I'll live with it and WP8 until KOffice becomes more polished...
Actually I have never had any problems with it....just had to upgrade my memory. Previously...I could make a cup of coffee in the time it took to fire up! I have found it reliable....and it allows me to work seamlessly with my MS orientated colleagues......now if only I could find an equivalent for Goldmine. Regards Brian -- Brian Galbraith [ Mutt 1.3.16i]| GnuPG 1.0.4 | SuSE Linux 7.1 ] http://seattle.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x98A102F3 Hushmail Secure Webmail: bgalbraith@cyber-rights.net ICQ# 110426381
Hi! Does anybody here have any experience with the HP Colorado 20 GB Streamer (internal IDE version), or something equivalent, and the newer kernel versions (2.4.0/2.4.2)? The SuSE SDB claims that with kernel versions >= 2.2.14 (SuSE 6.4) you *must* use the ide-scsi-Emulation (the generic IDE tape driver doesn't work) - ist this still true for current kernels? The system in question uses SCSI harddisks, and I'm not sure wether the SCSI driver could conflict with the ide-scsi module; do you know any place with a little more information on ide-scsi? (the SuSE SDB wasn't much help...) Thanks for any help! Regards, Martin
On Tuesday 27 March 2001 22:49, Timothy R.Butler wrote:
Hi Fred, Gotta agree with you on everything but one part...
from MickySoft, StarOffice provides SOLID NON-crashing business apps.,
I must say that in my experience, StarOffice is anything but "NON-crashing." :-) It crashed more and is a lot less intuitve than MS Office on Win2k. Then again, I'll live with it and WP8 until KOffice becomes more polished...
-Tim
Tim, I've experienced a SOLID operation using SO5.2. In fact, I can't recall a single crash of it. I wonder how much the stability is related to your xserver installation. Have you checked your xserver error logs? JLK
participants (9)
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Ben Rosenberg -
Brian Galbraith -
Fred A. Miller -
Jerry Kreps -
Jonathan Drews -
Ken Hughes -
Martin Köhling -
SuSe List User -
Timothy R.Butler