[opensuse] Porting uuids and guids
A recent thread about uuids prompts me to ask a question that I have been meaning to ask for a number of years now and never got around to it. (I have always just gritted my teeth and fixed this issue manually) When I upgrade my systems from one version of OpenSuSE to the next, I often remount partitions from an older system onto the new system (/home and /srv in particular) And this leads to problems with uuids and guids as the new system will often reassign the values associated with each of the standard uuids/guids to different values. Also I sometimes create new uuids and guids which the new system does not know anything about. My question is this, is there any way to export/import the uuids and guids assigned in one version of OpenSuSE to another newer version? I know this would also entail having to reprocess the entire file system to change all the assigned values of uuids and guids as appropriate. Sure would make life easier if this could be done in an automated fashion.... How to others managed this issue? If there is an existing tool for doing this, Google is not finding it for me.... Marc.. -- Linux Counter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/02/2019 08:30 AM, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
A recent thread about uuids prompts me to ask a question that I have been meaning to ask for a number of years now and never got around to it. (I have always just gritted my teeth and fixed this issue manually) When I upgrade my systems from one version of OpenSuSE to the next, I often remount partitions from an older system onto the new system (/home and /srv in particular) And this leads to problems with uuids and guids as the new system will often reassign the values associated with each of the standard uuids/guids to different values. Also I sometimes create new uuids and guids which the new system does not know anything about. My question is this, is there any way to export/import the uuids and guids assigned in one version of OpenSuSE to another newer version? I know this would also entail having to reprocess the entire file system to change all the assigned values of uuids and guids as appropriate. Sure would make life easier if this could be done in an automated fashion.... How to others managed this issue? If there is an existing tool for doing this, Google is not finding it for me....
I was bitten by this just one week ago. The "svn" uuid/guid changed while upgrading. I didn't want to change the more than 2TB of subversion repositories themselves, so I had to shuffle around /etc/passwd and /etc/group. I recall a discussion about this years ago, but I don't remember the rationale for changing uuid/guids between releases. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
02.02.2019 19:30, Marc Chamberlin пишет:
A recent thread about uuids prompts me to ask a question that I have been meaning to ask for a number of years now and never got around to it. (I have always just gritted my teeth and fixed this issue manually) When I upgrade my systems from one version of OpenSuSE to the next, I often remount partitions from an older system onto the new system (/home and /srv in particular) And this leads to problems with uuids and guids as the new system will often reassign the values associated with each of the standard uuids/guids to different values. Also I sometimes create new uuids and guids which the new system does not know anything about. My question is this, is there any way to export/import the uuids and guids assigned in one version of OpenSuSE to another newer version? I know this would also entail having to reprocess the entire file system to change all the assigned values of uuids and guids as appropriate. Sure would make life easier if this could be done in an automated fashion.... How to others managed this issue? If there is an existing tool for doing this, Google is not finding it for me....
I tried to read this three times and I still cannot make heads or tails out of it. What "standard uuids/guids" are you talking about? Why do you mix UUID and GUID? What do you want to "export" and where do you want to "import" it? This is textbook example of someone expecting others to read ones mind. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/02/2019 10:09 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
02.02.2019 19:30, Marc Chamberlin пишет:
A recent thread about uuids prompts me to ask a question that I have been meaning to ask for a number of years now and never got around to it. (I have always just gritted my teeth and fixed this issue manually) When I upgrade my systems from one version of OpenSuSE to the next, I often remount partitions from an older system onto the new system (/home and /srv in particular) And this leads to problems with uuids and guids as the new system will often reassign the values associated with each of the standard uuids/guids to different values. Also I sometimes create new uuids and guids which the new system does not know anything about. My question is this, is there any way to export/import the uuids and guids assigned in one version of OpenSuSE to another newer version? I know this would also entail having to reprocess the entire file system to change all the assigned values of uuids and guids as appropriate. Sure would make life easier if this could be done in an automated fashion.... How to others managed this issue? If there is an existing tool for doing this, Google is not finding it for me....
I tried to read this three times and I still cannot make heads or tails out of it. What "standard uuids/guids" are you talking about? Why do you mix UUID and GUID? What do you want to "export" and where do you want to "import" it?
This is textbook example of someone expecting others to read ones mind.
It made perfect sense to me, Andrei. Why shouldn't system-level userids and groupids be static from one OS release to the next? I don't do version updates, preferring to do full installs, then mounting data partitions from the previous version. If userids/groupids for well-known system-level servers were static, maybe defined in an RFC somewhere, then exporting/importing between versions wouldn't be required. After all, IP port assignments are fixed. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
02.02.2019 21:22, Lew Wolfgang пишет:
On 02/02/2019 10:09 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
02.02.2019 19:30, Marc Chamberlin пишет:
A recent thread about uuids prompts me to ask a question that I have been meaning to ask for a number of years now and never got around to it. (I have always just gritted my teeth and fixed this issue manually) When I upgrade my systems from one version of OpenSuSE to the next, I often remount partitions from an older system onto the new system (/home and /srv in particular) And this leads to problems with uuids and guids as the new system will often reassign the values associated with each of the standard uuids/guids to different values. Also I sometimes create new uuids and guids which the new system does not know anything about. My question is this, is there any way to export/import the uuids and guids assigned in one version of OpenSuSE to another newer version? I know this would also entail having to reprocess the entire file system to change all the assigned values of uuids and guids as appropriate. Sure would make life easier if this could be done in an automated fashion.... How to others managed this issue? If there is an existing tool for doing this, Google is not finding it for me....
I tried to read this three times and I still cannot make heads or tails out of it. What "standard uuids/guids" are you talking about? Why do you mix UUID and GUID? What do you want to "export" and where do you want to "import" it?
This is textbook example of someone expecting others to read ones mind.
It made perfect sense to me, Andrei. Why shouldn't system-level userids and groupids
UUID and GUID was never used for user ID or group ID. UUID meand Universal Unique IDentifier and GUID means Globally Unique IDentifier. Abbreviation for userid is UID and abbreviation for groupid is GID. Capitals, not small.
be static from one OS release to the next? I don't do version updates, preferring to do full installs, then mounting data partitions from the previous version. If userids/groupids for well-known system-level servers were static, maybe defined in an RFC somewhere, then exporting/importing between versions wouldn't be required.
What exactly are you going to export/import that require the same *system* UID/GID? If you have convincing use case, why were you silent when switch from static list to dynamically generated UID/GID was discussed?
After all, IP port assignments are fixed.
You are welcome to establish international registry for keeping track of standard UID/GID. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/02/2019 10:32 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
02.02.2019 21:22, Lew Wolfgang пишет:
On 02/02/2019 10:09 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
02.02.2019 19:30, Marc Chamberlin пишет:
A recent thread about uuids prompts me to ask a question that I have been meaning to ask for a number of years now and never got around to it. (I have always just gritted my teeth and fixed this issue manually) When I upgrade my systems from one version of OpenSuSE to the next, I often remount partitions from an older system onto the new system (/home and /srv in particular) And this leads to problems with uuids and guids as the new system will often reassign the values associated with each of the standard uuids/guids to different values. Also I sometimes create new uuids and guids which the new system does not know anything about. My question is this, is there any way to export/import the uuids and guids assigned in one version of OpenSuSE to another newer version? I know this would also entail having to reprocess the entire file system to change all the assigned values of uuids and guids as appropriate. Sure would make life easier if this could be done in an automated fashion.... How to others managed this issue? If there is an existing tool for doing this, Google is not finding it for me....
I tried to read this three times and I still cannot make heads or tails out of it. What "standard uuids/guids" are you talking about? Why do you mix UUID and GUID? What do you want to "export" and where do you want to "import" it?
This is textbook example of someone expecting others to read ones mind. It made perfect sense to me, Andrei. Why shouldn't system-level userids and groupids UUID and GUID was never used for user ID or group ID. UUID meand Universal Unique IDentifier and GUID means Globally Unique IDentifier. Abbreviation for userid is UID and abbreviation for groupid is GID. Capitals, not small.
Ah, of course. I assumed that what Marc was talking about was clear by its context.
be static from one OS release to the next? I don't do version updates, preferring to do full installs, then mounting data partitions from the previous version. If userids/groupids for well-known system-level servers were static, maybe defined in an RFC somewhere, then exporting/importing between versions wouldn't be required. What exactly are you going to export/import that require the same *system* UID/GID? If you have convincing use case, why were you silent when switch from static list to dynamically generated UID/GID was discussed?
Pardon me, I must not have been clear enough. With regard to moving between operating system versions, I usually don't perform an in-place update, preferring instead to do a full-install on a previously formatted partition set up for this purpose. I've been bitten by in-place updates in the past, particularly with fringe packages and libraries, and the little extra time it takes for a full-install is worth not having to fix obscure problems. This also allows booting to the previously installed version in case something goes horribly wrong, and all the configuration files for both versions are always available in their untouched states. So, doing this sort of install doesn't touch user's home partitions and various data partitions. If the UID/GID has changed due to the upgrade, then things may not work. Marc's referring to export/import was in regard to mapping between versions. In my case, just last week, the problem was with the "svn" UID/GID on a large server. Yes, things can be managed with fiddling and care, but my question was "why aren't system-level UID/GID stable?" After all, there are 1000 possibilities to play with. I chose to change the passwd/group files rather than doing a "chown -R svn.svn" on many terabytes of data. I wasn't aware of the "discussion", I just vaguely recall talk about why it wasn't done. For the record, why isn't it done?
After all, IP port assignments are fixed.
You are welcome to establish international registry for keeping track of standard UID/GID.
Yes, an RFC probably isn't practical. But why couldn't they be static within a distribution? Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Lew, et al -- ...and then Lew Wolfgang said... % % On 02/02/2019 10:32 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote: % >02.02.2019 21:22, Lew Wolfgang ??????????: % >>On 02/02/2019 10:09 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote: % >>>02.02.2019 19:30, Marc Chamberlin ??????????: % >>>>A recent thread about uuids prompts me to ask a question that I have ... % >>>>When I upgrade my systems from one version of OpenSuSE to the next, I ... % >>>>as the new system will often reassign the values associated with each of ... % >>>I tried to read this three times and I still cannot make heads or tails % >>>out of it. What "standard uuids/guids" are you talking about? Why do you ... % >>It made perfect sense to me, Andrei. Why shouldn't system-level userids % >>and groupids ... % >>the previous version. If userids/groupids for well-known system-level % >>servers % >>were static, maybe defined in an RFC somewhere, then exporting/importing % >>between versions wouldn't be required. % >What exactly are you going to export/import that require the same % >*system* UID/GID? If you have convincing use case, why were you silent % >when switch from static list to dynamically generated UID/GID was discussed? % ... % So, doing this sort of install doesn't touch user's home partitions and various ... % between versions. In my case, just last week, the problem was with the "svn" % UID/GID on a large server. Yes, things can be managed with fiddling and care, % but my question was "why aren't system-level UID/GID stable?" After all, there In a small enough scope, that would make sense. Unfortunately for this case, there is such a large universe of software that it isn't manageable or practical to uniquely and globally assign UIDs and GIDs (sometimes more than one, even, eg the daemon vs the user) for everything. We also can't even guarantee that packages A,B,D,X will be installed exclusive of others and in the same order each time, which is why the IDs change. % are 1000 possibilities to play with. I chose to change the passwd/group files % rather than doing a "chown -R svn.svn" on many terabytes of data. That is, IMHO, an excellent approach. % % I wasn't aware of the "discussion", I just vaguely recall talk about % why it wasn't done. For the record, why isn't it done? [snip] There is no centralized official[ly-accepted] reference of UIDs and GIDs for all of the world's software. HTH & HANW :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/02/2019 07:33 PM, David T-G wrote:
% I wasn't aware of the "discussion", I just vaguely recall talk about % why it wasn't done. For the record, why isn't it done? [snip]
There is no centralized official[ly-accepted] reference of UIDs and GIDs for all of the world's software.
But it would seem to be possible for a distribution to know what it supports, and to replicate those numbers between releases. Most software packages don't need GID/UID numbers anyway. IIRC SunOS and Solaris managed to keep the numbers straight. At any rate, this is a minor annoyance compared to the other things that confound and confuse. For example, just yesterday a full install of Leap 15 failed in a way I've never seen before. The installation process "blue screened". The media checked, and the host runs 42.3 okay. More interesting, memtest passes if run on only one Xeon core, but fails if it runs on four, and fails (freezes) on the same core each time. I'm going to look at it further on Monday, and see if memtest for 42.3 fails in the same way. Hardware issue? Something funky with the kernel? Harrumph. I'll report back here when I learn more. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/02/2019 10:32 AM, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
UUID and GUID was never used for user ID or group ID. UUID meand Universal Unique IDentifier and GUID means Globally Unique IDentifier. Abbreviation for userid is UID and abbreviation for groupid is GID. Capitals, not small.
My bad Andrei, sorry, communicating in a sea of 3 and 4 letter acronyms is difficult at best! Much more so for a person who is not a guru or an expert on a subject! I stand corrected and meant UID and GID... Marc... -- Linux Counter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 02/02/2019 17.30, Marc Chamberlin wrote:
A recent thread about uuids prompts me to ask a question that I have been meaning to ask for a number of years now and never got around to it. (I have always just gritted my teeth and fixed this issue manually) When I upgrade my systems from one version of OpenSuSE to the next, I often remount partitions from an older system onto the new system (/home and /srv in particular) And this leads to problems with uuids and guids as the new system will often reassign the values associated with each of the standard uuids/guids to different values. Also I sometimes create new uuids and guids which the new system does not know anything about. My question is this, is there any way to export/import the uuids and guids assigned in one version of OpenSuSE to another newer version? I know this would also entail having to reprocess the entire file system to change all the assigned values of uuids and guids as appropriate. Sure would make life easier if this could be done in an automated fashion.... How to others managed this issue? If there is an existing tool for doing this, Google is not finding it for me....
I manage it by upgrading, not installing fresh. Otherwise, the distribution would have to reuse the same numbers on every installation, not create them randomly. This way it is a pain. The only way is to edit the /etc/passwd and group file to have the numbers that you wish, and to change the entire filesystem to the numbers you assign, manually. I had a one line concoction that did it, find all files recursively with old_uid and change them to new_uid. Sometimes needing to do to an intermediate uid first. I don't know where it is now... Ah, found it: find . -uid 500 -print0 | tee registro | xargs -0 chown 1000 Now, if you use ACLs, you may also have to change them, some other way. There is a feature during install that reads /etc/passwd and group of the target disk and recreates the same users with the same passwords on the new system. I know it works for your /home users, but I do not know if it works for the rest. And AFAIK it doesn't work on an arbitrary destination partition, ie, telling it to read them from some other place. It would be a nice feature. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)
participants (5)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Carlos E. R. -
David T-G -
Lew Wolfgang -
Marc Chamberlin