Neil Rickert wrote:

On 11/24/20 2:55 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:

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On 11/24/20 6:49 AM, cagsm wrote:

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As far as I can now tell, the new HyperKitty (?) mechanism on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/

Uuugghh!!!

That is truly the most horrible mail reading interface I have ever seen.

I'll have to agree. I really don't like the new archive list format. The old format was far easier to use.

I don't actually receive any mails from the lists. I have only ever been reading them on the archive. And it as now become more unpleasant and more time-consuming.

I don't think anyone involved had imagined some people would be reading the list via the archive interface, I certainly had not. Personally, I admit I don't like the Hyperkitty interface much either. As David wrote, too much screen real-estate taken up by non-essential stuff. I am keeping a list migration post mortem report here: https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/77701 I have added your concerns about the Hyperkitty interface, it makes me wonder if others might have already created new archive "skins" ? Feel free to contribute items (and solutions), but please refrain from general discussion, let's keep that here.

Yes, I can still manage. But it would be nice to have a better interface.

We still have some work to do - mailman has an option for an NNTP interface and it looks as if there might also be room to have more than one archiver.

It is especially bad for the bugs list, where I try to monitor for interesting new bug reports. I might have to give up on that, because checking the list has become difficult.

Well, there were always other options - gmane is one, actually subscribing to the list is another. I use nntp (a local setup) for reading the lists, but mails could also be delivered to an IMAP folder and easily read with any imap-capable reader. For instance. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes

Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:11 AM Per Jessen wrote:

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Well, there were always other options - gmane is one,

Current gmane only offers NNTP access. Last time I checked MARC, it did not carry new lists.

Oh, I was not aware of that. I was going to mention MARC next. I guess nabble might be an option - http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/ -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland.

On 25/11/2020 03.39, Neil Rickert wrote:

On 11/24/20 2:55 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

On 11/24/20 6:49 AM, cagsm wrote:

...

As far as I can now tell, the new HyperKitty (?) mechanism on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/

Uuugghh!!!

   That is truly the most horrible mail reading interface I have ever seen.

I'll have to agree.  I really don't like the new archive list format. The old format was far easier to use.

I understand that keeping the old interface is not an option, the web interface comes given with the list server software, which now is mailman instead of mlmmj. So unless someone finds an already done new "skin" we are stuck. But Per has mentioned some alternatives. The nntp interface is an interesting idea, although AFAIK you can not do text search on the body (unless you store them locally). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 25/11/2020 14.39, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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So unless someone finds an already done new "skin" we are stuck. But Per has mentioned some alternatives. The nntp interface is an interesting idea,

FYI, it looks like mailman3 has support for gating messages to an NNTP server, but it does not have one built in.

Oh. That's more complicated and needs more work, resources, and maintenance. What about a read-only access? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 2020-11-25 13:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

new "skin"

There seems to be some references to themes in the code. Especially here. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/blob/master/doc/conf.py And of course in the css files. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk... For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request. -- /bengan

On 25/11/2020 14.59, David T-G wrote:

Bengt, et al --

...and then Bengt G?rd?n said... % ... % % And of course in the css files. % https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk... % % For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request.

An honest question here, not least since I'm horribly behind on grokking the git world ...

How can I pull CSS files (or anything relating to the server side, it appears) such that it changes the presentation on my end? Is there a mechanism in the javascript to look for local override CSS files or such so that I can define my own theme? Of course, I'd then have to pull files on every device (that could be interesting on a phone), but I don't even see how to start.

Or are you just suggesting that one create a "better" (definition left up to the reader) theme and submit it to the OO gang or even back to the project and hope that it will get used here?

The later - and maybe become part of the gang ;-)

TIA

:-D

-- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:51:27 +0100 Bengt Gördén wrote:

On 2020-11-25 13:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

new "skin"

There seems to be some references to themes in the code.

Especially here. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/blob/master/doc/conf.py

And of course in the css files. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk...

For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request.

That's assuming hyperkitty's problems can be fixed by (re)skinning the cat. :) I think most people have opinions more like mine which is that hyperkitty is gross, over the top nonsense. marc seems reasonable https://marc.info/?l=opensuse&m=160631326501425&w=2 and so does nabble but it seems to be some years out of date :( http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/openSUSE-community-f2987756.html

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:24:15 +0000 Dave Howorth wrote:

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 15:03:46 +0000 Dave Howorth wrote:

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On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:51:27 +0100 Bengt Gördén wrote:

...

On 2020-11-25 13:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

new "skin"

There seems to be some references to themes in the code.

Especially here. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/blob/master/doc/conf.py

And of course in the css files. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk...

For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request.

That's assuming hyperkitty's problems can be fixed by (re)skinning the cat. :)

I think most people have opinions more like mine which is that hyperkitty is gross, over the top nonsense.

marc seems reasonable https://marc.info/?l=opensuse&m=160631326501425&w=2

and so does nabble but it seems to be some years out of date :( http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/openSUSE-community-f2987756.html

Here's another couple of possible candidates:

the Mail Archive seems to already index some opensuse lists, so could presumably be subscribed to this list and the support list as well:

https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=all&q=opensuse&e=listname https://www.mail-archive.com/opensuse-commit@opensuse.org/msg212380.html

W3C has a mail archive system that is available, based on hypermail (which was written in 1994 but still has some activity and is under GPL on github)

https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Devel/

I don't know what opinions others have about whether these possibilities are better than hyperkitty, or even just valuable as an additional alternative?

Has anything further happened with regard to alternatives to hyperkitty? I just had to use the archives this morning and found them dreadful to use. The biggest problem is the way hyperkitty replaces quouted material with dots. It makes it impossible to skim down a thread and understand what's going on.