[opensuse] Clickable web links on the new HyperKitty web interface of the lists server?
Hi users @ list opensuse, maybe I am old school, but from old days of mails and usenet, I always came from the concept to post URLs, web-addresses and clickable links into like angle-brackets < > and make various mail clients and places be able to fully recognize and respect especially very long URLs URIs and more. Maybe I never fully grasped the concept, or had some misunderstanding of them to begin with. As far as I can now tell, the new HyperKitty (?) mechanism on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/ apparently does not render clickable html links when browsing list posts e.g. on the new archives areas
https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/
vs
<https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/>
Now I was wondering how one should post long links and more safely. I am writing via google gmail web interface. But also how about other inbound delivery means e.g. smtp clients etc? What are the exact technical details about how stuff becomes rendered on this HyperKitty thingy? Also, some while ago, I tried to attempt to log-in or register on the web interface of the lists.opensuse.org server, but it then denied or spoke about not having implemented accounts yet or something. These days, it seems that one could log in to it with all sorts of credential providers, opensuse id, open id, github, gitlab, stack exchange, google log on. <https://lists.opensuse.org/accounts/login/> Registering apparently is still blocked. <https://lists.opensuse.org/accounts/signup/> Does this mean we can somehow claim our own account that we already use (email address as sender) to be able to log into the web interface as well and post there instead of our own mail clients or mail concepts? or when will this be available? TY
On 11/24/20 6:49 AM, cagsm wrote:
As far as I can now tell, the new HyperKitty (?) mechanism on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/
Uuugghh!!! That is truly the most horrible mail reading interface I have ever seen. Just do something like nabble and be done with it. Much easier to use and navigate and each title doesn't take 1/5 of the screen with the stupid social media type voting garbage. Tech for the sake of tech is just nonsense. Sorry, but we can definitely do better than that. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 11/24/20 2:55 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/24/20 6:49 AM, cagsm wrote:
As far as I can now tell, the new HyperKitty (?) mechanism on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/
Uuugghh!!!
That is truly the most horrible mail reading interface I have ever seen.
I'll have to agree. I really don't like the new archive list format. The old format was far easier to use. I don't actually receive any mails from the lists. I have only ever been reading them on the archive. And it as now become more unpleasant and more time-consuming. Yes, I can still manage. But it would be nice to have a better interface. It is especially bad for the bugs list, where I try to monitor for interesting new bug reports. I might have to give up on that, because checking the list has become difficult.
Neil Rickert wrote:
On 11/24/20 2:55 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/24/20 6:49 AM, cagsm wrote:
As far as I can now tell, the new HyperKitty (?) mechanism on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/
Uuugghh!!!
That is truly the most horrible mail reading interface I have ever seen.
I'll have to agree. I really don't like the new archive list format. The old format was far easier to use.
I don't actually receive any mails from the lists. I have only ever been reading them on the archive. And it as now become more unpleasant and more time-consuming.
I don't think anyone involved had imagined some people would be reading the list via the archive interface, I certainly had not. Personally, I admit I don't like the Hyperkitty interface much either. As David wrote, too much screen real-estate taken up by non-essential stuff. I am keeping a list migration post mortem report here: https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/77701 I have added your concerns about the Hyperkitty interface, it makes me wonder if others might have already created new archive "skins" ? Feel free to contribute items (and solutions), but please refrain from general discussion, let's keep that here.
Yes, I can still manage. But it would be nice to have a better interface.
We still have some work to do - mailman has an option for an NNTP interface and it looks as if there might also be room to have more than one archiver.
It is especially bad for the bugs list, where I try to monitor for interesting new bug reports. I might have to give up on that, because checking the list has become difficult.
Well, there were always other options - gmane is one, actually subscribing to the list is another. I use nntp (a local setup) for reading the lists, but mails could also be delivered to an IMAP folder and easily read with any imap-capable reader. For instance. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (2.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:11 AM Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Well, there were always other options - gmane is one,
Current gmane only offers NNTP access. Last time I checked MARC, it did not carry new lists.
Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:11 AM Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Well, there were always other options - gmane is one,
Current gmane only offers NNTP access. Last time I checked MARC, it did not carry new lists.
Oh, I was not aware of that. I was going to mention MARC next. I guess nabble might be an option - http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/ -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.2°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland.
On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 12:35 PM Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 10:11 AM Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Well, there were always other options - gmane is one,
Current gmane only offers NNTP access. Last time I checked MARC, it did not carry new lists.
OK, they still call them by old name but content is updated, so these lists show messages from today. So MARC is certainly an option.
On 25/11/2020 03.39, Neil Rickert wrote:
On 11/24/20 2:55 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 11/24/20 6:49 AM, cagsm wrote:
As far as I can now tell, the new HyperKitty (?) mechanism on https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/
Uuugghh!!!
That is truly the most horrible mail reading interface I have ever seen.
I'll have to agree. I really don't like the new archive list format. The old format was far easier to use.
I understand that keeping the old interface is not an option, the web interface comes given with the list server software, which now is mailman instead of mlmmj. So unless someone finds an already done new "skin" we are stuck. But Per has mentioned some alternatives. The nntp interface is an interesting idea, although AFAIK you can not do text search on the body (unless you store them locally). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
So unless someone finds an already done new "skin" we are stuck. But Per has mentioned some alternatives. The nntp interface is an interesting idea,
FYI, it looks like mailman3 has support for gating messages to an NNTP server, but it does not have one built in. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (4.4°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 25/11/2020 14.39, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
So unless someone finds an already done new "skin" we are stuck. But Per has mentioned some alternatives. The nntp interface is an interesting idea,
FYI, it looks like mailman3 has support for gating messages to an NNTP server, but it does not have one built in.
Oh. That's more complicated and needs more work, resources, and maintenance. What about a read-only access? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 25/11/2020 14.39, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
So unless someone finds an already done new "skin" we are stuck. But Per has mentioned some alternatives. The nntp interface is an interesting idea,
FYI, it looks like mailman3 has support for gating messages to an NNTP server, but it does not have one built in.
Oh. That's more complicated and needs more work, resources, and maintenance. What about a read-only access?
I don't think it'll make much of a difference, effort-wise - but it would be a starting point. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (3.5°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland.
On 2020-11-25 13:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
new "skin"
There seems to be some references to themes in the code. Especially here. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/blob/master/doc/conf.py And of course in the css files. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk... For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request. -- /bengan
Bengt, et al -- ...and then Bengt G?rd?n said... % ... % % And of course in the css files. % https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk... % % For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request. An honest question here, not least since I'm horribly behind on grokking the git world ... How can I pull CSS files (or anything relating to the server side, it appears) such that it changes the presentation on my end? Is there a mechanism in the javascript to look for local override CSS files or such so that I can define my own theme? Of course, I'd then have to pull files on every device (that could be interesting on a phone), but I don't even see how to start. Or are you just suggesting that one create a "better" (definition left up to the reader) theme and submit it to the OO gang or even back to the project and hope that it will get used here? TIA :-D -- David T-G See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/email/ See http://justpickone.org/davidtg/tofu.txt
On 25/11/2020 14.59, David T-G wrote:
Bengt, et al --
...and then Bengt G?rd?n said... % ... % % And of course in the css files. % https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk... % % For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request.
An honest question here, not least since I'm horribly behind on grokking the git world ...
How can I pull CSS files (or anything relating to the server side, it appears) such that it changes the presentation on my end? Is there a mechanism in the javascript to look for local override CSS files or such so that I can define my own theme? Of course, I'd then have to pull files on every device (that could be interesting on a phone), but I don't even see how to start.
Or are you just suggesting that one create a "better" (definition left up to the reader) theme and submit it to the OO gang or even back to the project and hope that it will get used here?
The later - and maybe become part of the gang ;-)
TIA
:-D
-- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 08:59:47 -0500 David T-G <davidtg-robot@justpickone.org> wrote:
Bengt, et al --
...and then Bengt G?rd?n said... % ... % % And of course in the css files. % https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk... % % For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request.
An honest question here, not least since I'm horribly behind on grokking the git world ...
How can I pull CSS files (or anything relating to the server side, it appears) such that it changes the presentation on my end? Is there a mechanism in the javascript to look for local override CSS files or such so that I can define my own theme? Of course, I'd then have to pull files on every device (that could be interesting on a phone), but I don't even see how to start.
There's an indication how to do it at https://superuser.com/questions/1434666/how-to-override-websites-stylesheets that mentions how you can use a local userContent.css to do it or use the Stylus or Stylish extensions. FWIW, I've never used any of these myself.
Or are you just suggesting that one create a "better" (definition left up to the reader) theme and submit it to the OO gang or even back to the project and hope that it will get used here?
That would be a nice idea if your ideas work out.
TIA
:-D
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:51:27 +0100 Bengt Gördén <bengan@bag.org> wrote:
On 2020-11-25 13:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
new "skin"
There seems to be some references to themes in the code.
Especially here. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/blob/master/doc/conf.py
And of course in the css files. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk...
For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request.
That's assuming hyperkitty's problems can be fixed by (re)skinning the cat. :) I think most people have opinions more like mine which is that hyperkitty is gross, over the top nonsense. marc seems reasonable https://marc.info/?l=opensuse&m=160631326501425&w=2 and so does nabble but it seems to be some years out of date :( http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/openSUSE-community-f2987756.html
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 15:03:46 +0000 Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:51:27 +0100 Bengt Gördén <bengan@bag.org> wrote:
On 2020-11-25 13:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
new "skin"
There seems to be some references to themes in the code.
Especially here. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/blob/master/doc/conf.py
And of course in the css files. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk...
For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request.
That's assuming hyperkitty's problems can be fixed by (re)skinning the cat. :)
I think most people have opinions more like mine which is that hyperkitty is gross, over the top nonsense.
marc seems reasonable https://marc.info/?l=opensuse&m=160631326501425&w=2
and so does nabble but it seems to be some years out of date :( http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/openSUSE-community-f2987756.html
Here's another couple of possible candidates: the Mail Archive seems to already index some opensuse lists, so could presumably be subscribed to this list and the support list as well: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=all&q=opensuse&e=listname https://www.mail-archive.com/opensuse-commit@opensuse.org/msg212380.html W3C has a mail archive system that is available, based on hypermail (which was written in 1994 but still has some activity and is under GPL on github) https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Devel/ I don't know what opinions others have about whether these possibilities are better than hyperkitty, or even just valuable as an additional alternative?
On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 16:24:15 +0000 Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 15:03:46 +0000 Dave Howorth <dave@howorth.org.uk> wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:51:27 +0100 Bengt Gördén <bengan@bag.org> wrote:
On 2020-11-25 13:34, Carlos E. R. wrote:
new "skin"
There seems to be some references to themes in the code.
Especially here. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/blob/master/doc/conf.py
And of course in the css files. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/tree/master/hyperkitty/static/hyperk...
For those that don't like the default, dig in and make a pull request.
That's assuming hyperkitty's problems can be fixed by (re)skinning the cat. :)
I think most people have opinions more like mine which is that hyperkitty is gross, over the top nonsense.
marc seems reasonable https://marc.info/?l=opensuse&m=160631326501425&w=2
and so does nabble but it seems to be some years out of date :( http://opensuse.14.x6.nabble.com/openSUSE-community-f2987756.html
Here's another couple of possible candidates:
the Mail Archive seems to already index some opensuse lists, so could presumably be subscribed to this list and the support list as well:
https://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=all&q=opensuse&e=listname https://www.mail-archive.com/opensuse-commit@opensuse.org/msg212380.html
W3C has a mail archive system that is available, based on hypermail (which was written in 1994 but still has some activity and is under GPL on github)
https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Devel/
I don't know what opinions others have about whether these possibilities are better than hyperkitty, or even just valuable as an additional alternative?
Has anything further happened with regard to alternatives to hyperkitty? I just had to use the archives this morning and found them dreadful to use. The biggest problem is the way hyperkitty replaces quouted material with dots. It makes it impossible to skim down a thread and understand what's going on.
Neil Rickert composed on 2020-11-24 20:39 (UTC-0600):
It is especially bad for the bugs list, where I try to monitor for interesting new bug reports. I might have to give up on that, because checking the list has become difficult.
I have a saved Bugzilla search for that: <https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/buglist.cgi?chfield=[Bug%20creation]&chfieldfrom=3d&chfieldto=Now&classification=openSUSE&columnlist=opendate%2Cchangeddate%2Cbug_status%2Cresolution%2Cproduct%2Ccomponent%2Creporter%2Cshort_desc&f1=short_desc&f2=short_desc&f3=short_desc&f4=short_desc&f5=rep_platform&f6=rep_platform&f7=rep_platform&f8=component&f9=short_desc&known_name=2days%20created&list_id=13280518&o1=nowordssubstr&o2=notsubstring&o3=notsubstring&o4=notsubstring&o5=notequals&o6=notequals&o7=notequals&o8=notequals&o9=notsubstring&query_based_on=2days%20created&query_format=advanced&v1=VUL-0%20VUL-1&v2=out%20of%20date&v3=Please%20convert%20SysV&v4=build%20fails&v5=armv5&v6=armv7&v7=aarch&v8=GNOME&v9=openQA%20test%20fails> -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
I don't really come to the users mailing list often, so sorry I missed it for so long, but for all of the participants in the thread, I'm glad you found bugs, but without having them reported to upstream (or in case of our theme to lists-o-o repository), nothing can be done about it, because people who can and want to change those things do not know about the issues you have. https://gitlab.com/mailman/hyperkitty/-/issues https://github.com/openSUSE/lists-o-o LCP [Stasiek] https://lcp.world/
participants (11)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Bengt Gördén -
cagsm -
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Howorth -
David C. Rankin -
David T-G -
Felix Miata -
Neil Rickert -
Per Jessen -
Stasiek Michalski