Damnit - We're There! My $.02 [crosspost mdk-suse]
<great! rant> Mates, Occasionally, I try to reflect and think about were we [Linux] are/[is] and how we are doing. Tonight is one of those occasions. As I look at the lists I am taken by the minimal nature of the problems with the distributions. Sure there are always app hiccups. But.. problems with the core OS components are (happily) NON EXISTENT. That speaks volumes. Gone are the pains of the gcc 2-3 transition. Gone are the horror stories of the kernel 2.2-2.4-2.6 rifts, the apache 1.3-2.0 trans, php and MySQL growing pains. Gone are the errors and seg faults in the infrastructure, such as gcc, bind, dhcp, samba, automount, pick-your-favorite, etc.... (although the "smartest guys in the room" are still dorking with the automount voodoo (don't get sucked into the registry model)) I jumped on board with mdk 7.0 (Air distro) and rode through the stock offering implosion and crippled 8.0, 8.1, 8.2, 9.0, 9.1 and 9.2 releases, picked up SuSE with 8.0, and enjoyed the (albeit bumpy) ride through 8.1, 8.2 (not bad though), and the (fairly stable) ride through 9.0, 9.1, 9.2 and 9.3. I've tried every release. I'm not prejudiced, I have servers and desktops running mdk 7.2 (I'm lazy) , 10.1, 2005LE, SuSE 9.0, 9.2 and 9.3. Today, the point is: SuSE 9.3 and mdk 2005LE are awesome. They are both basically point and shot OS's. Yast and urpmi work (almost flawlessly). Grab a box, shuffle CDs (or DVD), update, configure and you're done. All hardware is amazingly recognized!!! (OK WPA and wireless can still be a challenge) I run both SuSE and mdk servers and desktops along with the Gates crippleware. We have finally gotten to the point (with a recent HD crash) that we are loading Linux as the desktop OS. That is a milestone! Unfortunately, we still require crippleware to run QuickBooks --- try handing your accountant an GNUcash file -- (LOL). And... unfortunately, when I go to trial, I still run crippleware. There are no viable substitutes for Summation, Trial Director, Visionary, power(less) point, and other trail tools. (does anybody hear OPPORTUNITY HERE??) (Summation gets $1900.00 per copy >= $5k for a 5 node license) OO is not yet a contender. (really simple stuff, database to collect transcript notes and issues, ability to search, sync and present transcript text and video, image-slideshows, etc..) The same shortfalls appear in Linux CAD software. Someone needs to contact AutoDesk or develop a similar CAD program with topo capability for land development applications, etc. But (sticking to the subject) -- damnit we're close... That's it though -- think about the other 99% of the business application handling Linux can do. When I, as an attorney and engineer, can utilize Linux for 95% of what I need to do, securely and with confidence, from servers to the desktop, the open source vision is almost complete! My servers have been exclusively Linux since 2000. The core server apps are bulletproof and it has only gotten better. The desktop has made huge leaps in the last 18 months. So much so that people now believe that GUI config tools are the way to configure a Linux box -- go figure... ( so much for # vi /etc/sysconfig/network...) All in all, if a weird lawyer can sit back and objectively say, "I see little or no barriers between transitioning between mickeysoft and Linux for what I do" (subject to the exceptions above), it says -- we have come a long way! On both sides of the fence -- keep up the great work! I can't wait for SuSE 10.0 and mdk 2006 (or whatever the new name may be..) </great! rant> -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. RANKIN LAW FIRM, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 (936) 715-9333 (936) 715-9339 fax www.rankinlawfirm.com --
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 01:19 -0500, david rankin wrote:
<great! rant>
Many snips.
Mates,
Unfortunately, we still require crippleware to run QuickBooks --- try handing your accountant an GNUcash file -- (LOL). And... unfortunately, when I go to trial, I still run crippleware. There are no viable substitutes for Summation, Trial Director, Visionary, power(less) point, and other trail tools. (does anybody hear OPPORTUNITY HERE??) (Summation gets $1900.00 per copy >= $5k for a 5 node license) OO is not yet a contender. (really simple stuff, database to collect transcript notes and issues, ability to search, sync and present transcript text and video, image-slideshows, etc..) The same shortfalls appear in Linux CAD software. Someone needs to contact AutoDesk or develop a similar CAD program with topo capability for land development applications, etc. But (sticking to the subject) -- damnit we're close...
Have you looked at or tried using CrossOver Office. It will run many apps not in their database. I use it for quicken and it runs with very little hand holding. Almost flawless. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 07:53 -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 01:19 -0500, david rankin wrote:
<great! rant>
Many snips.
Mates,
Unfortunately, we still require crippleware to run QuickBooks --- try handing your accountant an GNUcash file -- (LOL). And... unfortunately, when I go to trial, I still run crippleware. There are no viable substitutes for Summation, Trial Director, Visionary, power(less) point, and other trail tools. (does anybody hear OPPORTUNITY HERE??) (Summation gets $1900.00 per copy >= $5k for a 5 node license) OO is not yet a contender. (really simple stuff, database to collect transcript notes and issues, ability to search, sync and present transcript text and video, image-slideshows, etc..) The same shortfalls appear in Linux CAD software. Someone needs to contact AutoDesk or develop a similar CAD program with topo capability for land development applications, etc. But (sticking to the subject) -- damnit we're close...
Have you looked at or tried using CrossOver Office. It will run many apps not in their database. I use it for quicken and it runs with very little hand holding. Almost flawless.
Have you tried it with their tax software yet?
On Sun August 7 2005 4:18 pm, Mike McMullin wrote:
Have you tried it with their tax software yet? I run Quicken 2003 with COo, I have run Quicken for almost 20 years!
-- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux user # 367800 X-Request-PGP: http://home.comcast.net/~p.cartwright/wsb/key.asc
Hi, I'm trying to get SUSE professional 9.3 up on a system based on a P4D CPU and Intel D945GNTLKR mobo with the latest BIOS (1788). What is the trick to get the Gigabit Ehternet adapter going? lspci -v said: 0000:02:00.0 Ethernet Controller: Intel Corporation: Unknown device 108b (rev 03) Subsystem: Intel Corporation: Unknown device 3094 ... whatever whatever ... I tried to modprobe both e100 and e1000 modules but they didn't find the device. Any hints please? Thanks, Florin
To answer myself now :-) Intel provides a newer e1000 module source that will make the ethernet adapter work with the the smp kernel (tested on 2.6.11.4-21.8-smp). The module will detect the hardware but will NOT work with the default (non-SMP) kernel. This driver is not mentioned directly on Intel's pages about the D945GNT motherboard (they're afraid of Microsoft to say it loud, I suppose), but google will eventually dig it out. Other odd issues with D945GNTLKR: 1. It won't boot from a harddrive unless one of the partitions is marked as bootable (Windows style) in the partition table. The BIOS (tested the newest one - 1788) is quirky alltogether and many of the features are twisted or don't work as described in the documentation. Why in the world would somebody make the BIOS read the partition table? 2. The sound doesn't work with SUSE 9.3. Intel's website points to ALSA. Some people claim that the the pre-release 2.6.13 of the kernel may work, but I didn't try. Much easier to stick a cheap sound card that works inside the box ... Florin On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 florin@hum.math.cmu.edu wrote:
Hi,
I'm trying to get SUSE professional 9.3 up on a system based on a P4D CPU and Intel D945GNTLKR mobo with the latest BIOS (1788).
What is the trick to get the Gigabit Ehternet adapter going?
lspci -v said: 0000:02:00.0 Ethernet Controller: Intel Corporation: Unknown device 108b (rev 03) Subsystem: Intel Corporation: Unknown device 3094 ... whatever whatever ...
I tried to modprobe both e100 and e1000 modules but they didn't find the device.
Any hints please?
Thanks, Florin
florin@hum.math.cmu.edu wrote:
To answer myself now :-)
Intel provides a newer e1000 module source that will make the ethernet adapter work with the the smp kernel (tested on 2.6.11.4-21.8-smp). The module will detect the hardware but will NOT work with the default (non-SMP) kernel. This driver is not mentioned directly on Intel's pages about the D945GNT motherboard (they're afraid of Microsoft to say it loud, I suppose), but google will eventually dig it out.
In my reply I mentioned I'd seen reference to it on the kernel mailing list last week, a post from someone at Intel.
Other odd issues with D945GNTLKR:
1. It won't boot from a harddrive unless one of the partitions is marked as bootable (Windows style) in the partition table. The BIOS (tested the newest one - 1788) is quirky alltogether and many of the features are twisted or don't work as described in the documentation. Why in the world would somebody make the BIOS read the partition table?
I always thought a partition had to be made bootable in order to be able to boot from it. I've always done that since the days when we used Minix bootlace and shoelace to boot Linux. You'd also note that on any Linux install of any flavour, partitioning the drive takes care of that.
2. The sound doesn't work with SUSE 9.3. Intel's website points to ALSA. Some people claim that the the pre-release 2.6.13 of the kernel may work, but I didn't try. Much easier to stick a cheap sound card that works inside the box ...
Also in my reply I mentioned the problem and what had to be done, depends on the audio card of course.
Florin
Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Sid Boyce wrote:
This driver is not mentioned directly on Intel's pages about the D945GNT motherboard (they're afraid of Microsoft to say it loud, I suppose), but google will eventually dig it out.
In my reply I mentioned I'd seen reference to it on the kernel mailing list last week, a post from someone at Intel.
Sid, I'm sorry I missed your reply. As far as I can tell, it didn't show up on this list. Can you please resend it, or at least send me a copy of it? Thank you.
1. It won't boot from a harddrive unless one of the partitions is marked as bootable (Windows style) in the partition table. The BIOS (tested the newest one - 1788) is quirky alltogether and many of the features are twisted or don't work as described in the documentation. Why in the world would somebody make the BIOS read the partition table?
I always thought a partition had to be made bootable in order to be able to boot from it. I've always done that since the days when we used Minix bootlace and shoelace to boot Linux. You'd also note that on any Linux install of any flavour, partitioning the drive takes care of that.
My point here is that its not the job of the BIOS to read the partition table and decide if a partition is bootable or not. This is the job of the boot loader. There are so many useful things that only the BIOS can do and it doesn't, so why waste EPROM space for stuff like that and impose some stupid un-necesarry (and un-documented) rules. Thank you, Florin
florin@hum.math.cmu.edu wrote:
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Sid Boyce wrote:
This driver is not mentioned directly on Intel's pages about the D945GNT motherboard (they're afraid of Microsoft to say it loud, I suppose), but google will eventually dig it out.
In my reply I mentioned I'd seen reference to it on the kernel mailing list last week, a post from someone at Intel.
Sid, I'm sorry I missed your reply. As far as I can tell, it didn't show up on this list. Can you please resend it, or at least send me a copy of it? Thank you.
I just noticed my reply (sent to you separately) was for the AMD64 list, someone else having e1000 problems, so when I saw your post I wondered if you had missed mine somehow, just a case of crossed x86/x86_64 wires. This the first I've seen a hardware topic collision on separate lists.
1. It won't boot from a harddrive unless one of the partitions is marked as bootable (Windows style) in the partition table. The BIOS (tested the newest one - 1788) is quirky alltogether and many of the features are twisted or don't work as described in the documentation. Why in the world would somebody make the BIOS read the partition table?
I always thought a partition had to be made bootable in order to be able to boot from it. I've always done that since the days when we used Minix bootlace and shoelace to boot Linux. You'd also note that on any Linux install of any flavour, partitioning the drive takes care of that.
My point here is that its not the job of the BIOS to read the partition table and decide if a partition is bootable or not. This is the job of the boot loader. There are so many useful things that only the BIOS can do and it doesn't, so why waste EPROM space for stuff like that and impose some stupid un-necesarry (and un-documented) rules.
Thank you, Florin
True. I'll be glad when we can ditch the manufacturer's BIOS entirely, it doesn't do much for Linux and it's a pain. I needed to update the BIOS on my x86_64 laptop, no floppy, tried freebios which only supports a limited set of chipsets, win98-boot.img, freedos, wine and cxoffice which all failed to do the job, so I got out a 10G spare drive, bunged it in, restored XP (took forever and a good thing I didn't throw the CD's in with the weekly rubbish collection), flashed the BIOS, original HD in and back with Linux. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 16:18 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 07:53 -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 01:19 -0500, david rankin wrote:
<great! rant>
Many snips.
Mates,
Unfortunately, we still require crippleware to run QuickBooks --- try handing your accountant an GNUcash file -- (LOL). And... unfortunately, when I go to trial, I still run crippleware. There are no viable substitutes for Summation, Trial Director, Visionary, power(less) point, and other trail tools. (does anybody hear OPPORTUNITY HERE??) (Summation gets $1900.00 per copy >= $5k for a 5 node license) OO is not yet a contender. (really simple stuff, database to collect transcript notes and issues, ability to search, sync and present transcript text and video, image-slideshows, etc..) The same shortfalls appear in Linux CAD software. Someone needs to contact AutoDesk or develop a similar CAD program with topo capability for land development applications, etc. But (sticking to the subject) -- damnit we're close...
Have you looked at or tried using CrossOver Office. It will run many apps not in their database. I use it for quicken and it runs with very little hand holding. Almost flawless.
Have you tried it with their tax software yet?
No, I use TaxAct which is much cheaper and just as good. $11.95 last year including E-File. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 18:15 -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 16:18 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 07:53 -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:
Have you looked at or tried using CrossOver Office. It will run many apps not in their database. I use it for quicken and it runs with very little hand holding. Almost flawless.
Have you tried it with their tax software yet?
No, I use TaxAct which is much cheaper and just as good. $11.95 last year including E-File.
Umm... just double checked and I actually ran TaxAct in vmware. Couldn't get it to install in COO. Maybe a few more people going to their site and requesting a linux port might help. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 18:27 -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 18:15 -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 16:18 -0400, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Sun, 2005-08-07 at 07:53 -0400, Ken Schneider wrote:
Have you looked at or tried using CrossOver Office. It will run many apps not in their database. I use it for quicken and it runs with very little hand holding. Almost flawless.
Have you tried it with their tax software yet?
No, I use TaxAct which is much cheaper and just as good. $11.95 last year including E-File.
Umm... just double checked and I actually ran TaxAct in vmware. Couldn't get it to install in COO. Maybe a few more people going to their site and requesting a linux port might help.
I dl'ed a copy and it installed in cxo, but had problems with creating files, IIRC it complained about a lack of permissions.
On Sunday 07 August 2005 4:18 pm, Mike McMullin wrote:
Have you looked at or tried using CrossOver Office. It will run many apps not in their database. I use it for quicken and it runs with very little hand holding. Almost flawless.
Have you tried it with their tax software yet?
I did...........nada. Fred -- Planet Earth - a subsidiary of Microsoft. We have no bugs in our software, Never! We do have undocumented added features, that you will find amusing, at no added cost to you, at this time.
On Sunday 07 August 2005 07:19, david rankin wrote:
<great! rant> [snip] There are no viable substitutes for Summation, Trial Director, Visionary, power(less) point, and other trail tools. (does anybody hear OPPORTUNITY HERE??) (Summation gets $1900.00 per copy >= $5k for a 5 node license) OO is not yet a contender. (really simple stuff, database to collect transcript notes and issues, ability to search, sync and present transcript text and video, image-slideshows, etc..) [snip]
Every consider one of the open source content/document managment systems ? Plone/CPS/Mambo/ etc. Very customizable. CPH
On Sunday, August 7, 2005 02:19 am, david rankin wrote:
Unfortunately, we still require crippleware to run QuickBooks
True, but running VMware Workstation works for me. You still need to pay for a Windows license, but Linux and Windows can share files and printers on the same physical host (via Samba); there's no fussing with Wine incompatibilities, and for those web sites that still require IE, it certainly makes things easier. -- _________________________________________________________ A Message From... L. Mark Stone Reliable Networks of Maine, LLC "We manage your network so you can manage your business." 477 Congress Street Portland, ME 04101 Tel: (207) 772-5678 Web: http://www.rnome.com
L. Mark Stone wrote:
On Sunday, August 7, 2005 02:19 am, david rankin wrote:
Unfortunately, we still require crippleware to run QuickBooks
True, but running VMware Workstation works for me. You still need to pay for a Windows license, but Linux and Windows can share files and printers on the same physical host (via Samba); there's no fussing with Wine incompatibilities, and for those web sites that still require IE, it certainly makes things easier.
Easier and dangerous. The most productive way I've found is to hassle must use sites such as banks as they can ask their IT staffs the hard and embarrasing questions you put to them and get other browsers supported. Try getting someone to boot knoppix on a Windows PC and see the fears of nasties infecting their machine rise to fever pitch. At work, going back a few years, when the worms hit and nearly brought operations to a halt, I found Lotus Notes queueing up lots of stuff, using me as a mail relay, but under Linux I was able to step in and kill them, under Windows, the other guys just had to grin and bear until the latest latest of a long line of fixes got installed, you opened an email and it would take ages to appear as it gave priority to the relay traffic, only open emails from known people they advised, like the ones relayed to you from an infected colleague's email address and spin on that one. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
On Sunday 07 August 2005 2:19 am, david rankin wrote: [snip]
Unfortunately, we still require crippleware to run QuickBooks --- try
I just heard on Sunday from Intuit, asking me to beta their new version. I refused, ONCE AGAIN telling them that until they got a clue and ported to Linux, I wasn't interested. I KNOW that in the past, MickySoft HAS put presure on them to NOT port to Linux. I assume that is still the case.
handing your accountant an GNUcash file -- (LOL). And... unfortunately, when I go to trial, I still run crippleware. There are no viable substitutes for Summation, Trial Director, Visionary, power(less) point, and other trail tools. (does anybody hear OPPORTUNITY HERE??) (Summation gets $1900.00 per copy >= $5k for a 5 node license) OO is not yet a contender. (really simple stuff, database to collect transcript notes and issues, ability to search, sync and present transcript text and video, image-slideshows, etc..) The same shortfalls appear in Linux CAD software. Someone needs to contact AutoDesk or develop a similar CAD program with topo capability for land development applications, etc. But (sticking to the subject) -- damnit we're close...
Yes we are. All you really need are proper templates for OO. Why don't you write them? ;)
That's it though -- think about the other 99% of the business application handling Linux can do. When I, as an attorney and engineer, can utilize Linux for 95% of what I need to do, securely and with confidence, from servers to the desktop, the open source vision is almost complete! My servers have been exclusively Linux since 2000. The core server apps are bulletproof and it has only gotten better. The desktop has made huge leaps in the last 18 months. So much so that people now believe that GUI config tools are the way to configure a Linux box -- go figure... ( so much for # vi /etc/sysconfig/network...)
It's easier and faster, and you don't have to put up with vi. What's not to lie?!
All in all, if a weird lawyer can sit back and objectively say, "I see little or no barriers between transitioning between mickeysoft and Linux for what I do" (subject to the exceptions above), it says -- we have come a long way!
We have a very narrow window of opportunity before Vista is released. SUSE MUST capitalize on that. However, to do so they need the applications. It's a catch 22 now matter how you cut it.
On both sides of the fence -- keep up the great work! I can't wait for SuSE 10.0 and mdk 2006 (or whatever the new name may be..)
'Couldn't care less about MDK or whatever..........just SUSE. Fred -- Planet Earth - a subsidiary of Microsoft. We have no bugs in our software, Never! We do have undocumented added features, that you will find amusing, at no added cost to you, at this time.
participants (9)
-
con -
david rankin -
florin＠hum.math.cmu.edu -
Fred A. Miller -
Ken Schneider -
L. Mark Stone -
Mike McMullin -
Paul Cartwright -
Sid Boyce