I'm attempting to recompile my kernel on SuSE 9,1. The last time I tried this I ended up messing up the system and having to reinstall. So, if I go into Yast and create a boot floppy, and then I mess up a compiled kernel to the point where my system won't boot, I can get it to work with the boot floppy, right? Just thought I'd run it past you guys... Thanks. Ben
Ben Sheron wrote:
I'm attempting to recompile my kernel on SuSE 9,1. The last time I tried this I ended up messing up the system and having to reinstall. So, if I go into Yast and create a boot floppy, and then I mess up a compiled kernel to the point where my system won't boot, I can get it to work with the boot floppy, right?
Just thought I'd run it past you guys... Thanks.
Ben
You can also boot with the rescue system and switch back to the old kernel, or so I've been told. -- Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! - See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. NOTE: Please do not email me any attachments with Microsoft extensions. They are deleted on my ISP's server before I ever see them, and no bounce message is sent.
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing. Is it still up? If not, did it make you want to cry, like when my box needed a reboot after a Kernel Update? If the OS was not SUSE Linux, what are the best uptimes you have seen for SUSE Linux? What are the best you've seen on Linux at all? For me, my best uptime was SUSE 8.2 Professional, and it was 66 days. Before you laugh, think how I have only had a computer for a total of 4 years, and how I'm using regular PCs, not server hardware, and not only that, I'm not very good with hardware, so these are machines bought from best buy, with not enough fans and cooling for my taste, and so I worry about overheating. If I could I'd use Liquid Nitrogen, trust me, I'm a cooling dude. I like a box running icy.
On Sunday 05 September 2004 07:14, Allen wrote:
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing.
I have seen the maximum possible uptime you can get on a 32 bit linux machine, 497 days. It was a P2 machine with 128MB internal memory, serving as a file server, dhcp server, web server, cvs server and small scale database server (sybase). It ran SuSE, 7.2 if memory serves. After the counter reset at 497 days we upgraded it to a newer suse after which it kept on running, what it's doing today I have no idea My home machines generally have max uptimes of around 3 to 4 months, since I generally update to the latest and greatest, and if there isn't a kernel update in that time, there will be a new suse version :)
Wow, amazing a little box like that can handle such a load. Well, such a load of tasks, not sure what load it was getting. The longest I've been around in person is about 4 years up. Novell box running as a server in a hospital I was at. I know the IT manager and he was telling me about it. The longest I've heard of for Linux is in the years. Loads don't seem tomatter, as I've pushed boxes hard for months and I've yet to ever have a problem. To the people who think uptime doesn't really matter, tommorrow while you're at work, pull the plug on the file server. I'm not even an admin. I'm a college student and even I know uptime DOES in fact matter. The only people who tell you it doesn't either don't know how to keep it up or have no idea what a job in the computer industry is like. Or they are the Janitor. One of the two. uptime is good, downtime costs money. On Sunday 05 September 2004 01:23, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Sunday 05 September 2004 07:14, Allen wrote:
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing.
I have seen the maximum possible uptime you can get on a 32 bit linux machine, 497 days. It was a P2 machine with 128MB internal memory, serving as a file server, dhcp server, web server, cvs server and small scale database server (sybase). It ran SuSE, 7.2 if memory serves.
After the counter reset at 497 days we upgraded it to a newer suse after which it kept on running, what it's doing today I have no idea
My home machines generally have max uptimes of around 3 to 4 months, since I generally update to the latest and greatest, and if there isn't a kernel update in that time, there will be a new suse version :)
On Sunday 05 September 2004 07:47, Allen wrote:
Wow, amazing a little box like that can handle such a load. Well, such a load of tasks, not sure what load it was getting.
I'm not saying it was a rocket, but it served its purpose as a development server and office server (for a small office)
On Sep 5 at 7:23am, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Sunday 05 September 2004 07:14, Allen wrote:
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing.
I have seen the maximum possible uptime you can get on a 32 bit linux machine, 497 days. It was a P2 machine with 128MB internal memory, serving as a file server, dhcp server, web server, cvs server and small scale database server (sybase). It ran SuSE, 7.2 if memory serves.
After the counter reset at 497 days we upgraded it to a newer suse after which it kept on running, what it's doing today I have no idea
This is a 200 Mhz Pentium MMX w/128Mb running SuSE 8.0, doing the same things Anders lists, except mySQL instead of sybase: Last login: Fri Sep 3 21:39:13 2004 from wsip-68-224-171-200.sd.sd.cox.net Have a lot of fun... mailgw:~ # uptime 10:29pm up 411 days, 9:27, 2 users, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01 I didn't realize the 497 day limit existed, but it makes sense (2^32 * 10ms / 3600 seconds / 24 hours = 497.1 days). Oh well, the power has to be shut off next week, so this server won't reach the limit. Jim
On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 11:20:21PM -0700, Jim Cunning wrote:
I didn't realize the 497 day limit existed, but it makes sense (2^32 * 10ms / 3600 seconds / 24 hours = 497.1 days). Oh well, the power has to be shut off next week, so this server won't reach the limit.
Actually, with SUSE kernels starting from 9.0, if you use default grub configuration, it passes parameter "desktop" to the kernel which makes the timer to tick 10 times faster so the uptime rolls over in ~50 days. See also http://portal.suse.de/sdb/en/2003/10/90_scheduling.html Regards, -Kastus
Op zondag 5 september 2004 07:23, schreef Anders Johansson:
I have seen the maximum possible uptime you can get on a 32 bit linux machine, 497 days.
What happens to the box when it reaches this uptime, does it become confused, when the counter gets reset to 0? Must the box be reboot after reaching the max uptime (I have a system that is 2 months away from this uptime ;) BTW: it also shows that the box have not been patches with kernel security updates ;) -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
On Sunday 05 September 2004 08:21, Richard Bos wrote:
Op zondag 5 september 2004 07:23, schreef Anders Johansson:
I have seen the maximum possible uptime you can get on a 32 bit linux machine, 497 days.
What happens to the box when it reaches this uptime, does it become confused, when the counter gets reset to 0? Must the box be reboot after reaching the max uptime (I have a system that is 2 months away from this uptime ;)
No, the box as such will be fine, all that happens is that the uptime counter starts over from 0. Of course that means that if you have any scripts that use uptime to calculate if things need to be done, they may become confused, but most things don't, most things use the date to calculate that, and that won't reset until 2039, so we have another 35 years to fix that :)
BTW: it also shows that the box have not been patches with kernel security updates ;)
True, but it was a purely internal machine with no internet access, even theoretically, so we felt it was secure enough
On Sunday 05 September 2004 08:27, Anders Johansson wrote:
most things use the date to calculate that, and that won't reset until 2039, so we have another 35 years to fix that :)
woops, it resets already on January 19, 2038, so it's only 33 years and 3.5 months. Best get cracking http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/critdate.htm
Allen, On Saturday 04 September 2004 22:14, Allen wrote:
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing.
Is it still up? If not, did it make you want to cry, like when my box needed a reboot after a Kernel Update?
Having to reboot is not way up on my list of crying offenses...
If the OS was not SUSE Linux, what are the best uptimes you have seen for SUSE Linux? What are the best you've seen on Linux at all?
For me, my best uptime was SUSE 8.2 Professional, and it was 66 days.
Someone over on
Before you laugh, think how I have only had a computer for a total of 4 years, and how I'm using regular PCs, not server hardware, and not only that, I'm not very good with hardware, so these are machines bought from best buy, with not enough fans and cooling for my taste, and so I worry about overheating.
I just lost a CPU to my negligence in cleaning the dust from the heat-sink fins. For the replacement CPU (one of the ones that require that special cooling standard Intel specifies with the external ducting leading to the CPU fan intake), I added an internal mounting holding to fans to vent air away from the CPU heat-sink outflow area. I also bought a multimeter with a temperature monitoring feature and I check periodically. So far, even now that summer has arrived (hereabouts, this is the hottest time of the year), the outflow temperature has not gotten within 3C of maximum _intake_ temperature specified by Intel (namely, 38C). And I run SETI@home at all times. Like I said, I keep an eye on it, but judging from what I've seen, I'm not too worried. Unfortunately, short of carving up the case or buying a new one, I have no way of satisfying the ventilation requirement short of leaving the side panel off of the box.
If I could I'd use Liquid Nitrogen, trust me, I'm a cooling dude. I like a box running icy.
Well, if you're going to overclock significantly, I suppose extreme measures might be required, but for most of us, I don't think liquid cooling is necessary for the current generation of CPUs. Maybe someday... Randall Schulz
Allen writes:
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing.
At my former job, my desktop machine was a Pentium 200 PC with 128MB of RAM and SCSI disk/CDROM. Nothing fancy... it ran SuSE 6.2 and was up continuously for about 400 days before I left that job and shut the machine down. Probably would have run for another 400 days easily... I used it for day-to-day chores, software development, document viewing and editing, web surfing, etc... -Ti
At my former job, my desktop machine was a Pentium 200 PC with 128MB of RAM and SCSI disk/CDROM. Nothing fancy... Wow, a P-I with 128MB and SCSI drives - I'd say that's pretty fancy for its time! :-)
-- Kind regards Hans du Plooy Newington Consulting Services hansdp at newingtoncs dot co dot za
On Sunday 05 September 2004 14.16, Hans du Plooy wrote:
At my former job, my desktop machine was a Pentium 200 PC with 128MB of RAM and SCSI disk/CDROM. Nothing fancy...
Wow, a P-I with 128MB and SCSI drives - I'd say that's pretty fancy for its time! :-)
-- Kind regards Hans du Plooy Newington Consulting Services hansdp at newingtoncs dot co dot za
Hehe.. then you should have seen my dual P100 with EISA/PCI bus, No controller cards what so ever. Had an older Adaptech ISA scsi card on it to get disk and cdrom functionality. An extra PCI card fixed the low voltage needed for the cpu's.. Ran nicely untill the gremlins took it. (Probable heat problem) I upgraded to a dual Celeron as it fell asleep on me. -- /Rikard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rikard Johnels email : rikjoh@norweb.se Web : http://www.rikjoh.com Mob : +46 735 05 51 01 ------------------------ Public PGP fingerprint ---------------------------- < 15 28 DF 78 67 98 B2 16 1F D3 FD C5 59 D4 B6 78 46 1C EE 56 >
You had a heat problem so you got a Celeron? Lol. I have one too. No matter what anyone says they are nice processors. This Celeron whips the crap out of my AMD Athlon. :) Nice uptimes by the way. Totally Spanked mine. On Sunday 05 September 2004 08:49, Rikard Johnels wrote:
On Sunday 05 September 2004 14.16, Hans du Plooy wrote:
At my former job, my desktop machine was a Pentium 200 PC with 128MB of RAM and SCSI disk/CDROM. Nothing fancy...
Wow, a P-I with 128MB and SCSI drives - I'd say that's pretty fancy for its time! :-)
-- Kind regards Hans du Plooy Newington Consulting Services hansdp at newingtoncs dot co dot za
Hehe.. then you should have seen my dual P100 with EISA/PCI bus, No controller cards what so ever. Had an older Adaptech ISA scsi card on it to get disk and cdrom functionality. An extra PCI card fixed the low voltage needed for the cpu's.. Ran nicely untill the gremlins took it. (Probable heat problem) I upgraded to a dual Celeron as it fell asleep on me.
-- /Rikard
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- Rikard Johnels email : rikjoh@norweb.se Web : http://www.rikjoh.com Mob : +46 735 05 51 01
------------------------ Public PGP fingerprint ---------------------------- < 15 28 DF 78 67 98 B2 16 1F D3 FD C5 59 D4 B6 78 46 1C EE 56 >
Best uptme I have had was for an NFS server on a private network... it was up and running fine, so I had no reason to reboot. It had 687 days on it when we had a power outage long enough to drain the UPS and it did an auto-shutdown when the batteries were about to fail. This was SuSE Linux. - Herman Allen wrote:
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing.
Is it still up? If not, did it make you want to cry, like when my box needed a reboot after a Kernel Update?
If the OS was not SUSE Linux, what are the best uptimes you have seen for SUSE Linux? What are the best you've seen on Linux at all?
For me, my best uptime was SUSE 8.2 Professional, and it was 66 days.
Before you laugh, think how I have only had a computer for a total of 4 years, and how I'm using regular PCs, not server hardware, and not only that, I'm not very good with hardware, so these are machines bought from best buy, with not enough fans and cooling for my taste, and so I worry about overheating.
If I could I'd use Liquid Nitrogen, trust me, I'm a cooling dude. I like a box running icy.
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing. Is it still up? If not, did it make you want to cry, like when my box needed a reboot after a Kernel Update?
We recently (a few months ago) had to reboot one of our squid servers at work, forget the exact uptime (although I took a copy of the uptime output at work) but it was well in excess of 400 days. I was a bit sad to see it go. It's a Cobalt RaQ2 (the MIPS CPU model) running Cobalt Linux, which is based on Red Hat 4! My best uptime at home that I remember was 111 days, which I lost when I downed my main server to move the drive hosting /home to it's replacement. The thing is having downed it, I then realised I didn't have the time right then, so just brought it straight back up. Still haven't done the work, it's uptime would be 120 days now. That's a Pentium 133 with 48M of RAM (an old Dell Optiplex desktop) running SuSE 8.1. -- James Ogley, Webmaster, usr local bin & Planet SuSE james@rubberturnip.org.uk www.rubberturnip.org.uk Updated GNOME packages for SUSE LINUX: www.usr-local-bin.org Latest SUSE News and Blogs: www.planetsuse.org
On Sunday 05 September 2004 09.44, James Ogley wrote:
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing. Is it still up? If not, did it make you want to cry, like when my box needed a reboot after a Kernel Update?
We recently (a few months ago) had to reboot one of our squid servers at work, forget the exact uptime (although I took a copy of the uptime output at work) but it was well in excess of 400 days. I was a bit sad to see it go. It's a Cobalt RaQ2 (the MIPS CPU model) running Cobalt Linux, which is based on Red Hat 4!
My best uptime at home that I remember was 111 days, which I lost when I downed my main server to move the drive hosting /home to it's replacement. The thing is having downed it, I then realised I didn't have the time right then, so just brought it straight back up. Still haven't done the work, it's uptime would be 120 days now. That's a Pentium 133 with 48M of RAM (an old Dell Optiplex desktop) running SuSE 8.1. -- James Ogley, Webmaster, usr local bin & Planet SuSE james@rubberturnip.org.uk www.rubberturnip.org.uk Updated GNOME packages for SUSE LINUX: www.usr-local-bin.org Latest SUSE News and Blogs: www.planetsuse.org
Well.. My own firewall has been up 281 day now.. And the last restart were due to a change of outlet i had to do. (the old one was overloaded) Its a Alphastation 255 running SuSE Linux 7.1 (Alpha) with a 2.4.19 kernel. Prior to the restart it was up over 300 days. The homeserver was up around 250 day until that also was moved (and hardware upgraded) So my Linux'es just ticks and ticks and ticks... :) -- /Rikard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rikard Johnels email : rikjoh@norweb.se Web : http://www.rikjoh.com Mob : +46 735 05 51 01 ------------------------ Public PGP fingerprint ---------------------------- < 15 28 DF 78 67 98 B2 16 1F D3 FD C5 59 D4 B6 78 46 1C EE 56 >
On Sunday 05 September 2004 00:14, Allen wrote:
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing.
Is it still up? If not, did it make you want to cry, like when my box needed a reboot after a Kernel Update?
If the OS was not SUSE Linux, what are the best uptimes you have seen for SUSE Linux? What are the best you've seen on Linux at all?
For me, my best uptime was SUSE 8.2 Professional, and it was 66 days.
Before you laugh, think how I have only had a computer for a total of 4 years, and how I'm using regular PCs, not server hardware, and not only that, I'm not very good with hardware, so these are machines bought from best buy, with not enough fans and cooling for my taste, and so I worry about overheating.
If I could I'd use Liquid Nitrogen, trust me, I'm a cooling dude. I like a box running icy. <DRUMROLL> 9:30am up 2 days 12:28, 4 users, load average: 0.17, 0.11, 0.08 </DRUMROLL> ...since it got back from repair for a new CD-R/RW/DVD drive. ;-) -- ..."Yogi" CH Namasté Yoga Studio "If music be the food of love, why can't rabbits sing?"
Allen wrote:
Probably has been asked before, but I'm just curiouse about some of the best uptimes you have seen, what kind of box it was, what OS, details about the OS, and what the box was doing. (...)
Netcraft is a good source of info about internet servers uptime: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html Sorry to mention, but within the top 50 we have only BSD.... # 1 today is: java.versalite.com - uptime: 1772 days - FreeBSD - Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) -- Marcos Lazarini
Marcos, On Sunday 05 September 2004 19:26, Marcos Lazarini wrote:
...
Netcraft is a good source of info about internet servers uptime: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html Sorry to mention, but within the top 50 we have only BSD.... # 1 today is: java.versalite.com - uptime: 1772 days - FreeBSD - Apache/1.3.26 (Unix)
Four years, 10 months, 1 week. That is, since late November 1999. Color me dubious. Can FreeBSD apply patches to a live kernel without rebooting?
-- Marcos Lazarini
Randall Schulz
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Marcos,
On Sunday 05 September 2004 19:26, Marcos Lazarini wrote:
...
Netcraft is a good source of info about internet servers uptime: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html Sorry to mention, but within the top 50 we have only BSD.... # 1 today is: java.versalite.com - uptime: 1772 days - FreeBSD - Apache/1.3.26 (Unix)
Four years, 10 months, 1 week. That is, since late November 1999. Color me dubious. Can FreeBSD apply patches to a live kernel without rebooting?
I though it was possible, but my local BSD guru (well, not so guru :-)) told me that BSD kernel compile process works much like linux kernel... If you have to change your kernel, will have to reboot. One topic unclear to us is that *may be* it is possible to recompile just the modules and reload them, without rebooting. I have a 'spare' partition on my home computer, and I plan to install FreeBSD there soon... these huge uptimes drive me nervous sometimes - "how can they do it?" :-) -- Marcos Lazarini
By not updating. That is how they do it. No those boxes haven't been rebooted. Free BSD has something to minimize reboots but it's no better than anything Linux has. Have you ever used Free BSD? It's OK but the first week you're going to want to punch the core developers. I just got tired of updating a fresh install of Free BSD a minute ago, and got pissed, and did : bsd# rm -rf / I feel better now. On Sunday 05 September 2004 23:12, Marcos Lazarini wrote:
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Marcos,
On Sunday 05 September 2004 19:26, Marcos Lazarini wrote:
...
Netcraft is a good source of info about internet servers uptime: http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html Sorry to mention, but within the top 50 we have only BSD.... # 1 today is: java.versalite.com - uptime: 1772 days - FreeBSD - Apache/1.3.26 (Unix)
Four years, 10 months, 1 week. That is, since late November 1999. Color me dubious. Can FreeBSD apply patches to a live kernel without rebooting?
I though it was possible, but my local BSD guru (well, not so guru :-)) told me that BSD kernel compile process works much like linux kernel... If you have to change your kernel, will have to reboot. One topic unclear to us is that *may be* it is possible to recompile just the modules and reload them, without rebooting.
I have a 'spare' partition on my home computer, and I plan to install FreeBSD there soon... these huge uptimes drive me nervous sometimes - "how can they do it?" :-)
-- Marcos Lazarini
Ben Sheron wrote:
I'm attempting to recompile my kernel on SuSE 9,1. The last time I tried this I ended up messing up the system and having to reinstall. So, if I go into Yast and create a boot floppy, and then I mess up a compiled kernel to the point where my system won't boot, I can get it to work with the boot floppy, right?
Just thought I'd run it past you guys... Thanks.
Ben
It depends on how you handle the new kernel, my methods have always been to leave what works completely untouched and leaves me to rebuild to my heart's content. 1. cp -dpR linux-x.y.z-a linux-x.y.z-a1; cd linux-x.y.z-a1 2. Change the Makefile to make EXTRAVERSION = -a1 3. make ?config 4. make bzImage && make modules && make modules_install 5. cp bzImage /boot/x.y.z-a1 6. edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to add lines for the new kernel. 7. mkinitrd for the kernel. I don't do use INITRD as I need reiserfs, so there is zero point in having it as a module. If you screw up something in the new kernel, the original is still intact and ready to go. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====
Thanks, I'll give that a whirl. I've been having a couple extra stability problems with my box, even after installing the proprietary Nvidia driver. I think doing a recompile on my machine will help. Not to mention the fact that I need to tweak it for low latency... Ben On Sun, 2004-09-05 at 02:50, Sid Boyce wrote:
Ben Sheron wrote:
I'm attempting to recompile my kernel on SuSE 9,1. The last time I tried this I ended up messing up the system and having to reinstall. So, if I go into Yast and create a boot floppy, and then I mess up a compiled kernel to the point where my system won't boot, I can get it to work with the boot floppy, right?
Just thought I'd run it past you guys... Thanks.
Ben
It depends on how you handle the new kernel, my methods have always been to leave what works completely untouched and leaves me to rebuild to my heart's content. 1. cp -dpR linux-x.y.z-a linux-x.y.z-a1; cd linux-x.y.z-a1 2. Change the Makefile to make EXTRAVERSION = -a1 3. make ?config 4. make bzImage && make modules && make modules_install 5. cp bzImage /boot/x.y.z-a1 6. edit /boot/grub/menu.lst to add lines for the new kernel. 7. mkinitrd for the kernel. I don't do use INITRD as I need reiserfs, so there is zero point in having it as a module. If you screw up something in the new kernel, the original is still intact and ready to go. Regards Sid.
-- Sid Boyce .... Hamradio G3VBV and keen Flyer =====LINUX ONLY USED HERE=====
It depends on how you handle the new kernel, my methods have always been to leave what works completely untouched and leaves me to rebuild to my heart's content.
Sid Boyce wrote: that is what I tried to do
1. cp -dpR linux-x.y.z-a linux-x.y.z-a1; cd linux-x.y.z-a1 2. Change the Makefile to make EXTRAVERSION = -a1 That's the part that is missing in the book. I didn't know how to make a different version
5. cp bzImage /boot/x.y.z-a1 The 9.1 book says I can use make bzlilo to combine 3 steps into one, copy original to .old, copy newly built to /boot folder and run lilo. I did that but the original seems to have been lost.
7. mkinitrd for the kernel. I don't do use INITRD as I need reiserfs, so I saw that mentioned during the YOU update of the kernel but mkinitrd wasn't mentioned in the book for the kernel building. This is just mkinitrd with no parameters?
If you screw up something in the new kernel, the original is still I still messed up and had to start over :-( I think next time I manually do the 3 steps that the book tells me were to have been done by make bzlilo (yes, I am using lilo because that is what YaST offered during the install of a raid setup)
Damon Register
participants (17)
-
Allen -
Anders Johansson -
Ben Sheron -
C Hamel -
Damon Register -
Hans du Plooy -
Herman Knief -
James Ogley -
Jim Cunning -
Jim Sabatke -
Kastus -
Marcos Lazarini -
Randall R Schulz -
Richard Bos -
Rikard Johnels -
Sid Boyce -
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