[opensuse] switching to 64 bit

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[opensuse] why i586 packages are...

Istvan Gabor

25 Jun 2012 25 Jun '12

20:18

Hello: I have purchased a new computer with more RAM (8 GB) and newer processor (AMD phenom II x6). So far all my computers used 32 bit linux (opensuse). Windows users say that windows requires 64 bit system to recognize and use memory that is larger than 4 GB (>3.xx). 1. It is necessary to switch 64 bit opensuse to use 8 GB RAM? My 32 bit system sees 8 GB RAM (in kinfocenter); kernel 2.6.31.14-0.8-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2011-04-16 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux. 2. If not necessary, what are the advantages of 64 bit? 3. What are the caveats? I guess there might be programs that can run on 32 bit system only. Can I run these in a 64 bit OS? Is there some compatibility program? I never installed and used a 64 bit system before. I found on the net these sites, but I am not convinced: http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.hu/2010/08/32-bit-vs-64-bit-linux-which-to-choo... http://forums.opensuse.org/english/get-technical-help-here/applications/4677... Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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James Knott

25 Jun 25 Jun

20:31

Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

Hello:

I have purchased a new computer with more RAM (8 GB) and newer processor (AMD phenom II x6).

So far all my computers used 32 bit linux (opensuse). Windows users say that windows requires 64 bit system to recognize and use memory that is larger than 4 GB (>3.xx).

1. It is necessary to switch 64 bit opensuse to use 8 GB RAM? My 32 bit system sees 8 GB RAM (in kinfocenter); kernel 2.6.31.14-0.8-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2011-04-16 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux.

2. If not necessary, what are the advantages of 64 bit? 3. What are the caveats? I guess there might be programs that can run on 32 bit system only. Can I run these in a 64 bit OS? Is there some compatibility program?

I never installed and used a 64 bit system before. I found on the net these sites, but I am not convinced:

To use that much memory, you need the PAE kernel. However, unlike with Windows, there is a lot of software for 64 bit Linux. I have been running it for about 6 years. 32 bit requires the use of PAE because a 32 bit processor cannot directly access that much memory without "tricks". Also, support for 32 bit apps is built in to the 64 bit version. My main desktop system runs 64 bit Linux only and my ThinkPad 64 bit Linux and 64 bit Windows 7. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

20:34

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-06-25 22:18, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

1. It is necessary to switch 64 bit opensuse to use 8 GB RAM? My 32 bit system sees 8 GB RAM (in kinfocenter); kernel 2.6.31.14-0.8-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2011-04-16 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux.

Not absolutely necessary. That extra memory is used by maping tricks, which takes time. A single process can not use over 4 GiB; actually about 3, part belongs to the kernel. So there are advantages when using a 64 bit software. Consider 64 bit cpu as a larger car, not as a faster car. It can move more data at the same time on the same road, but the movement itself is the same "speed". You notice the advantage on some processes that work on "larger" data. Some multimedia conversions, for example. I have seen some programs double their use of ram when converted to 64 bit, because the variables were not correctly specified. Should not happen. I'm using 64 bit oS. I have had no problems. I still have some 32 bit apps that run fine in it. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/oy10ACgkQIvFNjefEBxpKYQCeMNZAYj+5SepZ76EOt3xLbBef VJMAnj/UO9KHAUOKtye3+/DocrCB4kU4 =BBbt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Cristian Rodríguez

20:52

El 25/06/12 16:34, Carlos E. R. escribió:

...

I have seen some programs double their use of ram when converted to 64 bit, because the variables were not correctly specified. Should not happen.

Hopefully at some point we would be able to provide an "x32abi" [1] build which solves this issue. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X32_ABI -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott

21:00

Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

...

El 25/06/12 16:34, Carlos E. R. escribió:

...
I have seen some programs double their use of ram when converted to 64 bit, because the variables were not correctly specified. Should not happen.

Hopefully at some point we would be able to provide an "x32abi" [1] build which solves this issue.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X32_ABI

BTW, there has been a 64 bit version of Linux since 1995, IIRC. It was for the DEC Alpha and followed shortly by the PowerPC version. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas

26 Jun 26 Jun

11:13

* James Knott (james.knott@rogers.com) [20120625 23:00]:

...

BTW, there has been a 64 bit version of Linux since 1995, IIRC. It was for the DEC Alpha and followed shortly by the PowerPC version.

And guess how many programs at that time weren't 64 bit clean? Even 4 years later when I joined SUSE quite a number of programs still couldn't cope with the fact that pointers exceeded the size of an int. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott

12:22

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

quite a number of programs still couldn't cope with the fact that pointers exceeded the size of an int

Several years ago, I took a C programming course at a local college. In class we used Borland's Turbo C++ on Windows 3.1. At home I had Borland C++ running on OS/2. On a few occasions I got burned by the difference in int size, as Turbo C++ had 16 bit int, but Borland C++, 32. So, I'd write a program and it'd run fine on my home computer, but fail in class -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

14:46

James Knott said the following on 06/26/2012 08:22 AM:

...

Philipp Thomas wrote:

...
quite a number of programs still couldn't cope with the fact that pointers exceeded the size of an int

Several years ago, I took a C programming course at a local college. In class we used Borland's Turbo C++ on Windows 3.1. At home I had Borland C++ running on OS/2. On a few occasions I got burned by the difference in int size, as Turbo C++ had 16 bit int, but Borland C++, 32. So, I'd write a program and it'd run fine on my home computer, but fail in class

Nothing new here; this has been plaguing programmers since C ran on anything except a PDP-11. Think Miller's port to the Interdata; think the SUN and the VAX at the beginning of the 80s. And worse, many programmers embedded characteristics of the VAX or the SUN in their code and hence 'Everything is a SUN/VAX' passed into the vocabulary. And then the BigEndian/SmallEndian wars turned in to the IXNU wars ... In the early 80s I was working for a UNIX developer and had the job of reviewing the SYSV packages from Bell's USG for such issue. USG had managed to take a lot of clean, well written code form the people who wrote V6 and V7 (take a look at John Lion's book - I showed it to a student learning C and her reaction was 'Why aren't we being taught with examples that are as easy to understand as that?') and make an incomprehensible mess of it. Thankfully much of the 'core code' (both kernel and apps) of Linux seems to be more comprehensible - at least to the people who work with it. You might, for example, compare the code of VIM to the original VI code of the 1980s. OUCH! -- Asking if computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

David Haller

17:16

Hello, On Tue, 26 Jun 2012, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

In the early 80s I was working for a UNIX developer and had the job of reviewing the SYSV packages from Bell's USG for such issue. USG had managed to take a lot of clean, well written code form the people who wrote V6 and V7 (take a look at John Lion's book - I showed it to a student learning C and her reaction was 'Why aren't we being taught with examples that are as easy to understand as that?') and make an incomprehensible mess of it.

Hm. I found the K&R 2nd Ed. quite understandable. And the Stroustrup. Of course, the harder stuff is, well, harder (pointers & dereferencing in C, i.e. what '*' does when in C, references/by value/templating in C++). As I'm not a programmer, I don't understand more arcane stuff, reading some pointer-to-function-with-complicated-prototype declaration (c.f. 'man dlopen', Example section: *(void **) (&cosine) = dlsym(handle, "cos"); ) that takes quite an effort to get. But e.g. 'getopts' was rather straightforward. Also, I've given up on understanding boost. Templates, typenames, typedefs, intertwined weirdly and deeply... *bwaaahhh* No thanks.

...

Thankfully much of the 'core code' (both kernel and apps) of Linux seems to be more comprehensible - at least to the people who work with it.

ACK. I find the kernel code quite readable, the stuff I don't get is either deeply nested functions/macros (which I'm theoretically just too lazy to follow), but more often it's some "bitbanging" hardware specific code where even the one who wrote that code can tell you only: "that's what works, that's what you have to do, or the HW will {"not do anything", "fail miserably doing what it's supposed to do", "just hang", "freeze your box entirely", "cause it to emit it's magic smoke"}... AHS, ASS, -dnh, open source, such as the linux kernel and e.g. mutt considerably less than other, don't get me started on libcamel (-> Evolution "PIM") though. And procmail's sources are formatted like s^W^W^Wunreadable, but, so far, procmail has always done what and how I wanted, just as documented. Oh, and I'm almost regularly grepping/reading around in /usr/src/linux, didn't have a headache to find my bearings there since at least 2.2.14 or so ;) -- I had a big argument with my wife. I didn't open the door for her. I just panicked and swam for the surface. -- Steve Davis [only roughly quoted as heard] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

27 Jun 27 Jun

00:01

David Haller said the following on 06/26/2012 01:16 PM:

...

ACK. I find the kernel code quite readable, the stuff I don't get is either deeply nested functions/macros (which I'm theoretically just too lazy to follow), but more often it's some "bitbanging" hardware specific code where even the one who wrote that code can tell you only: "that's what works, that's what you have to do, or the HW will {"not do anything", "fail miserably doing what it's supposed to do", "just hang", "freeze your box entirely", "cause it to emit it's magic smoke"}...

There is that. Back in the PDP-11 days I wrote a disk driver that could correct _some_ crc errors. There was a 'magic number', a hunk of octal, that when applied to the value in an error register either told you where - what the error was and let you correct it. Or it didn't. Some genius who knew about CRC came up the the string of bytes. I only coded it into the disk driver. It worked. or it didn't. It worked often enough that we were happy. The closest I've got to 'magic smoke' was the driver that drove the disk head past the end of the disk. Bloody stupid acceleration algorithm! -- Marketing is the science of convincing us that What You Get Is What You Want. -- John Carter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

26 Jun 26 Jun

08:33

Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

...

El 25/06/12 16:34, Carlos E. R. escribió:

...
I have seen some programs double their use of ram when converted to 64 bit, because the variables were not correctly specified. Should not happen.

Hopefully at some point we would be able to provide an "x32abi" [1] build which solves this issue.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X32_ABI

That would be cool, I have a couple of servers that would benefit from that. (today they're running 32bit due to processes taking up too much memory in 64bit). -- Per Jessen, Zürich (19.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

C

25 Jun 25 Jun

20:38

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

1. It is necessary to switch 64 bit opensuse to use 8 GB RAM? My 32 bit system sees 8 GB RAM (in kinfocenter); kernel 2.6.31.14-0.8-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2011-04-16 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux.

No, it's not necessary as long as the kernel you are using has PAE enable. If you're seeing more than 3.7 GB, you're probably already using a PAE enabled kernel.

...

2. If not necessary, what are the advantages of 64 bit?

... ummmm.... for a desktop user, not a lot. You really only see the difference if you're running apps that explicitly make use of 64 bit.

...

3. What are the caveats? I guess there might be programs that can run on 32 bit system only. Can I run these in a 64 bit OS? Is there some compatibility program?

Some apps are released only in 32 bit versions... Skype for example. To use a 32 bit compiled app on a 64 bit system you have to install the 32 bit libs that the app depends on. openSUSE repos provide most of the libs. It's only rare/unusual corner cases where you run into issues.

...

I never installed and used a 64 bit system before.

I've been using 64 bit for years, and don't have any problems with it other than that for one or two apps I use I have to remember to install the 32 bit libs. C. -- openSUSE 12.1 x86_64, KDE 4.8.4 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carl Hartung

22:30

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:38:34 +0200 C wrote:

...

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...
1. It is necessary to switch 64 bit opensuse to use 8 GB RAM? My 32 bit system sees 8 GB RAM (in kinfocenter); kernel 2.6.31.14-0.8-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2011-04-16 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux.

No, it's not necessary as long as the kernel you are using has PAE enable. If you're seeing more than 3.7 GB, you're probably already using a PAE enabled kernel.

...
2. If not necessary, what are the advantages of 64 bit?

... ummmm.... for a desktop user, not a lot. You really only see the difference if you're running apps that explicitly make use of 64 bit.

...
3. What are the caveats? I guess there might be programs that can run on 32 bit system only. Can I run these in a 64 bit OS? Is there some compatibility program?

Some apps are released only in 32 bit versions... Skype for example. To use a 32 bit compiled app on a 64 bit system you have to install the 32 bit libs that the app depends on. openSUSE repos provide most of the libs. It's only rare/unusual corner cases where you run into issues.

...
I never installed and used a 64 bit system before.

I've been using 64 bit for years, and don't have any problems with it other than that for one or two apps I use I have to remember to install the 32 bit libs.

C.

I've been running 64-bit for years, too, and likewise only have to be reminded from time to time that any 32-bit applications I run require the corresponding 32-bit libraries to be installed, as well. Carl -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Larry Stotler

26 Jun 26 Jun

06:16

On 6/25/12, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

I have purchased a new computer with more RAM (8 GB) and newer processor (AMD phenom II x6). So far all my computers used 32 bit linux (opensuse). Windows users say that windows requires 64 bit system to recognize and use memory that is larger than 4 GB (>3.xx). 1. It is necessary to switch 64 bit opensuse to use 8 GB RAM? My 32 bit system sees 8 GB RAM (in kinfocenter); kernel 2.6.31.14-0.8-desktop #1 SMP PREEMPT 2011-04-16 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux.

Since the Pentium Pro, all Intel chips(other than the 400Mhz front side bus Pentium M chips) have had PAE(which stands for Physical Address Extension). PAE changes the memory address of a 32bit chip from 32bits to 36bits, which expands the maximum addressable physical limit from 4GB to 64GB RAM. However, since a 32bit chip can't use more than 4GB per process, PAE "swaps" memory from below & above the 4GB limit. So, if the data you need is located above 4GB, it has to be swapped down to be used, whcih can take more time(although it's extremely fast). Here's more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension.

...

2. If not necessary, what are the advantages of 64 bit?

64bit x86 doubles the amount of registers from 8 to 16, which helps out. Also, due to the design of the x86, a lot of things run much faster when ran in 64bit mode versus 32bit mode. Video editing & encoding is a prime example because more data can be manipulated at a time.

...

3. What are the caveats? I guess there might be programs that can run on 32 bit system only. Can I run these in a 64 bit OS? Is there some compatibility program?

All 64bit x86 chips have a full hardware 32bit x86 setup included. So, you can run 32bit apps full speed under a 64bit OS. however, due to the 64bit setup, running 32bit apps takes more resources under a 64bit OS than running a 32bit OS. The majority of Linux software is available in 64bit. Even Adobe Flash is 64bit available. However, things like Wine(to run windows programs) are 32bit for 32bit windows programs, etc. I have 2GB RAM in a 64bit Core2 chip, & I can attest to faster encode times. I have Wine installed, but use it rarely. I would recommend installing a 64bit OS on a seperate hard drive to make sure everything you need/use works ok before switching out completely. Good luck -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Istvan Gabor

08:31

2012. június 26. 8:16 napon Larry Stotler írta: [snip]

...

I would recommend installing a 64bit OS on a seperate hard drive to make sure everything you need/use works ok before switching out completely.

Thank you all for helping. Another question: I have user's home dirs on a separate partition. Will these user home directories (used in 32 bit openSUSE with KDE 3.5) work in the 64 bit system? Do I have to adjust anything in them (config files etc.) ? Thanks, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin

08:59

On 26/06/12 18:31, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

2012. június 26. 8:16 napon Larry Stotler írta:

[snip]

...
I would recommend installing a 64bit OS on a seperate hard drive to make sure everything you need/use works ok before switching out completely.

Thank you all for helping.

Another question: I have user's home dirs on a separate partition. Will these user home directories (used in 32 bit openSUSE with KDE 3.5) work in the 64 bit system? Do I have to adjust anything in them (config files etc.) ?

Thanks,

Istvan

My personal opinion is that you should always do a clean install - ie, start from zero. Especially now that you are about to install a new 64-bit system. Backup your most important files/directories/whatever and install "with a clean slate". What I have always done is to take a copy of my .mozilla, .thunderbird, and .xine directories in my /home, and also take a copy of Documents, Downloads, Pictures, Video and any other directories which contain files which cannot be downloaded again without some effort, and then install openSUSE as a *NEW* installation. This way you are not carrying any (unnecessary and damaging) baggage from the previous version (and especially from your 32-bit system to the new 64-bit system). BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 and kernel 3.4.3 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

George Olson

09:04

On 06/26/2012 04:59 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 26/06/12 18:31, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...
2012. június 26. 8:16 napon Larry Stotler írta:

...

...
Istvan

My personal opinion is that you should always do a clean install - ie, start from zero. Especially now that you are about to install a new 64-bit system.

Backup your most important files/directories/whatever and install "with a clean slate".

What I have always done is to take a copy of my .mozilla, .thunderbird, and .xine directories in my /home, and also take a copy of Documents, Downloads, Pictures, Video and any other directories which contain files which cannot be downloaded again without some effort, and then install openSUSE as a *NEW* installation. This way you are not carrying any (unnecessary and damaging) baggage from the previous version (and especially from your 32-bit system to the new 64-bit system).

BC

That is a good idea. One question - is there a quick way to get a list of all the best apps you have used on the old system and install them using zypper in kind of a quick fashion? Or is it better to just do them one at a time. I know that Yast is probably easier because you can just click on all the ones you want before installing, but I am wondering if there is a kind of standard way to do that. -- G.O. Box #1: 12.1 | KDE 4.8.4 | AMD Phenom IIX4 | 64 | ATI Radeon HD 3300 | 16GB Box #2: 12.1 | KDE 4.8.4 | AMD Athlon X3 | 64 | nVidia C61 GeForce 7025 | 4GB Laptop: 12.1 | KDE 4.8.3 | Core2 Duo T8100 | 64 | Intel 965GM | 4GB RAM learning openSUSE and loving it -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin

27 Jun 27 Jun

07:00

On 26/06/12 19:04, George Olson wrote:

...

On 06/26/2012 04:59 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
On 26/06/12 18:31, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...
2012. június 26. 8:16 napon Larry Stotler írta:

...
...
Istvan

My personal opinion is that you should always do a clean install - ie, start from zero. Especially now that you are about to install a new 64-bit system.

Backup your most important files/directories/whatever and install "with a clean slate".

What I have always done is to take a copy of my .mozilla, .thunderbird, and .xine directories in my /home, and also take a copy of Documents, Downloads, Pictures, Video and any other directories which contain files which cannot be downloaded again without some effort, and then install openSUSE as a *NEW* installation. This way you are not carrying any (unnecessary and damaging) baggage from the previous version (and especially from your 32-bit system to the new 64-bit system).

BC

That is a good idea. One question - is there a quick way to get a list of all the best apps you have used on the old system and install them using zypper in kind of a quick fashion? Or is it better to just do them one at a time. I know that Yast is probably easier because you can just click on all the ones you want before installing, but I am wondering if there is a kind of standard way to do that.

You know, the only best way and safest way of doing things is to do what our grandparents did: use a pencil and paper to write things down which they thought should not be forgotten when the old brain goes off the rails :-) . So, the short answer to your question is: no, I don't know of any quick method except just making a note of what your favourite apps are and installing them when you are doing a new installation [***] of the OS :-) . I keep a little notebook where I write down apps which I should install and prevent from being installed (like gimp documentation for example). The same little "black book" contains hints and solutions I find in these mail lists. [***] Not all apps can be installed during the OS installation process, of course; one needs to activate the relevant repos AFTER the installation is complete to be able to install your other favourite apps. For example, for me I need to activate the multimedia repos in order to have fully functional vlc, k9copy and even k3b. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 and kernel 3.4.4 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott

11:43

Basil Chupin wrote:

...

...
That is a good idea. One question - is there a quick way to get a list of all the best apps you have used on the old system and install them using zypper in kind of a quick fashion? Or is it better to just do them one at a time. I know that Yast is probably easier because you can just click on all the ones you want before installing, but I am wondering if there is a kind of standard way to do that.

You know, the only best way and safest way of doing things is to do what our grandparents did: use a pencil and paper to write things down which they thought should not be forgotten when the old brain goes off the rails :-) .

So, the short answer to your question is: no, I don't know of any quick method except just making a note of what your favourite apps are and installing them when you are doing a new installation [***] of the OS :-) .

I keep a little notebook where I write down apps which I should install and prevent from being installed (like gimp documentation for example). The same little "black book" contains hints and solutions I find in these mail lists.

IIRC, it is possible to build a file that's used for duplicating installations. I have no idea if it will work over an upgrade. Also, doing an upgrade, rather than fresh install should update the installed apps. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

12:06

James Knott wrote:

...

Basil Chupin wrote:

...
...
That is a good idea. One question - is there a quick way to get a list of all the best apps you have used on the old system and install them using zypper in kind of a quick fashion? Or is it better to just do them one at a time. I know that Yast is probably easier because you can just click on all the ones you want before installing, but I am wondering if there is a kind of standard way to do that.

You know, the only best way and safest way of doing things is to do what our grandparents did: use a pencil and paper to write things down which they thought should not be forgotten when the old brain goes off the rails :-) .

So, the short answer to your question is: no, I don't know of any quick method except just making a note of what your favourite apps are and installing them when you are doing a new installation [***] of the OS :-) .

I keep a little notebook where I write down apps which I should install and prevent from being installed (like gimp documentation for example). The same little "black book" contains hints and solutions I find in these mail lists.

IIRC, it is possible to build a file that's used for duplicating installations.

Probably autoyast.xml -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.2°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Doug

16:33

On 06/27/2012 03:00 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 26/06/12 19:04, George Olson wrote:

...
On 06/26/2012 04:59 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...
On 26/06/12 18:31, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...
2012. június 26. 8:16 napon Larry Stotler írta:

...
...
Istvan

My personal opinion is that you should always do a clean install - ie, start from zero. Especially now that you are about to install a new 64-bit system.

Backup your most important files/directories/whatever and install "with a clean slate".

What I have always done is to take a copy of my .mozilla, .thunderbird, and .xine directories in my /home, and also take a copy of Documents, Downloads, Pictures, Video and any other directories which contain files which cannot be downloaded again without some effort, and then install openSUSE as a *NEW* installation. This way you are not carrying any (unnecessary and damaging) baggage from the previous version (and especially from your 32-bit system to the new 64-bit system).

BC

That is a good idea. One question - is there a quick way to get a list of all the best apps you have used on the old system and install them using zypper in kind of a quick fashion? Or is it better to just do them one at a time. I know that Yast is probably easier because you can just click on all the ones you want before installing, but I am wondering if there is a kind of standard way to do that.

You know, the only best way and safest way of doing things is to do what our grandparents did: use a pencil and paper to write things down which they thought should not be forgotten when the old brain goes off the rails :-) .

So, the short answer to your question is: no, I don't know of any quick method except just making a note of what your favourite apps are and installing them when you are doing a new installation [***] of the OS :-) .

I keep a little notebook where I write down apps which I should install and prevent from being installed (like gimp documentation for example). The same little "black book" contains hints and solutions I find in these mail lists.

[***] Not all apps can be installed during the OS installation process, of course; one needs to activate the relevant repos AFTER the installation is complete to be able to install your other favourite apps. For example, for me I need to activate the multimedia repos in order to have fully functional vlc, k9copy and even k3b.

BC

I may be stating the obvious, but if you use icons/widgets on your desktop, then take a snapshot of the desktop and print it out. This will certainly contain MOST of your favorite programs. I have just been thru that myself, having inadvertently destroyed my desktop. Of course, I didn't have to reinstall the software, but the principle is the same. (I was aware that something might happen, so I had the forethought to keep a record of the screen.) --doug -- Blessed are the peacekeepers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A.M. Greeley -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott

26 Jun 26 Jun

12:07

Basil Chupin wrote:

...

My personal opinion is that you should always do a clean install - ie, start from zero. Especially now that you are about to install a new 64-bit system.

He was referring to /home, which contains user data. That should always be protected during install, but otherwise left alone. In my main computer, my /home is on a separate drive, mounted in a slide in tray. When I do a fresh install, I remove the drive and then mount it again after the install. I also make back ups of /home, /etc and a couple of other directories. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Oddball

13:10

James Knott schreef:

...

Basil Chupin wrote:

...
My personal opinion is that you should always do a clean install - ie, start from zero. Especially now that you are about to install a new 64-bit system.

He was referring to /home, which contains user data. That should always be protected during install, but otherwise left alone. In my main computer, my /home is on a separate drive, mounted in a slide in tray. When I do a fresh install, I remove the drive and then mount it again after the install. I also make back ups of /home, /etc and a couple of other directories.

When testing stuff, i more than once ran into unusable /homes. But that was merely DE config issues, that were not solvable. So i just created another user. Since they lived brotherly in the same partition, i could always get to the files i needed with adapting the authorization. As i was both users, i knew my passwords, so there would never be any trouble that could not be solved. In case of a wrecked password there was always root. I have several installs running on several boxes and laptops, and there are also several /homes. I always manage to find my files. And as most is done in Browsers, there are sync-addons that let you get all addons from a browser installed at once, x-marks can sync bookmarks, passwords, history, open tabs. The mail, i leave i on the mailserver, so i won't miss them. But i did not change from 32 > 64 bit on the same machine. I always used 32 bits sw on a 32 bits machine, and 64 on a 64. But i would want to know what would really happen, so i would just try it... And create another user, if it would not work out. kind regards, Rob. -- Have a nice time, Oddball. OS: Linux 2.6.37.6-0.11-desktop i686 Huidige gebruiker: oddball@EEEPC-ROB.site Systeem: openSUSE 11.4 (i586) KDE: 4.6.00 (4.6.0) "release 6" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin

27 Jun 27 Jun

07:19

On 26/06/12 22:07, James Knott wrote:

...

Basil Chupin wrote:

...
My personal opinion is that you should always do a clean install - ie, start from zero. Especially now that you are about to install a new 64-bit system.

He was referring to /home, which contains user data. That should always be protected during install, but otherwise left alone. In my main computer, my /home is on a separate drive, mounted in a slide in tray. When I do a fresh install, I remove the drive and then mount it again after the install. I also make back ups of /home, /etc and a couple of other directories.

I know what he meant - and I know what I suggested: always do a clean install, which means zapping the /home directory. Make a backup of your /home directory by all means - I always do, on a regular basis as well - but do not use it for the new installation. I have read enough pleas for help, and posts containing much gnashing of teeth, to conclude that files (config files) in an 'old' /home directory more often than not cause much suffering and pain because the new version of the OS requires new settings. Copy over from the 'old' /home files which you KNOW won't cause problems but that's all. For example, I use xine as a backup TV viewer and it uses a channels.conf file which is also used by vlc (my preferred choice of TV/audio viewer/player) and this is one file I simply copy across without hesitation. Of course, I will now get hundreds of posts telling me that I am absolutely and totally off the planet and that I need mental help for making such a statement. OK, go for it peoples - I's am waiting! :-) BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 and kernel 3.4.4 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin

07:35

On 27/06/12 17:19, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

On 26/06/12 22:07, James Knott wrote:

...
Basil Chupin wrote: [.......]

...

..... For example, I use xine as a backup TV viewer and it uses a channels.conf file which is also used by vlc (my preferred choice of TV/audio viewer/player) and this is one file I simply copy across without hesitation.

Sorry about that..... I forgot to mention - simply because I have mentioned this numerous times in the past - that I also always copy across the /.mozilla and the /.thunderbird directories (I've been using the contents of these directories for years now, from version to version, from Windows to Linux). [.........] BC -- Using openSUSE 12.2 x86_64 KDE 4.8.4 and kernel 3.4.4 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

12:36

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2012-06-27 at 17:19 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Of course, I will now get hundreds of posts telling me that I am absolutely and totally off the planet and that I need mental help for making such a statement. OK, go for it peoples - I's am waiting! :-)

:-) No, but my home directory is inherited through multitude of upgrades since SuSE 6.2 or thereabouts - no problems that I remember :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk/q/kAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WKTwCfUFNeOrUDmgTt1JLG5g5agQ6H qQ8An0Lip9IanGJkRTDb1RlnUOZ5sFDk =lb0X -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott

13:54

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

No, but my home directory is inherited through multitude of upgrades since SuSE 6.2 or thereabouts - no problems that I remember :-)

Of course, the big question is what might be in /home that could cause problems. It's mostly data and config files. Neither of those should be dependent on 32 vs 64 bit. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Istvan Gabor

15:26

2012. június 27. 9:19 napon Basil Chupin írta:

...

On 26/06/12 22:07, James Knott wrote:

...
Basil Chupin wrote:

...
My personal opinion is that you should always do a clean install - ie, start from zero. Especially now that you are about to install a new 64-bit system.

He was referring to /home, which contains user data. That should always be protected during install, but otherwise left alone. In my main computer, my /home is on a separate drive, mounted in a slide in tray. When I do a fresh install, I remove the drive and then mount it again after the install. I also make back ups of /home, /etc and a couple of other directories.

I know what he meant - and I know what I suggested: always do a clean install, which means zapping the /home directory.

Make a backup of your /home directory by all means - I always do, on a regular basis as well - but do not use it for the new installation.

I have read enough pleas for help, and posts containing much gnashing of teeth, to conclude that files (config files) in an 'old' /home directory more often than not cause much suffering and pain because the new version of the OS requires new settings. Copy over from the 'old' /home files which you KNOW won't cause problems but that's all. For example, I use xine as a backup TV viewer and it uses a channels.conf file which is also used by vlc (my preferred choice of TV/audio viewer/player) and this is one file I simply copy across without hesitation.

Of course, I will now get hundreds of posts telling me that I am absolutely and totally off the planet and that I need mental help for making such a statement. OK, go for it peoples - I's am waiting! :-)

I've been using the home directories from SUSE 9.x and though I never had big problems, small ones occasionally occurred. Furthermore unnecessary (obsolete) config files can pile up, which can be disturbing as well. For this reason I think it is a good idea to start with a clean home directory and copy only the necessary files. The drawback is that configuration is time consuming and tedious. Therefore I am rolling my home directory and don't do clean install. But I always make a backup of .kde .local .config .skel .qt Desktop .icons .gnome2 .gconf .gconfd .mozilla .ooo3/.libreoffice dirs and a few files like .bashrc and .profile. I guess that 32/64 bit switching should not affect the settings but since I wasn't sure about it I asked what other's experiences are. Thanks you all, Istvan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

James Knott

26 Jun 26 Jun

12:01

Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

Another question: I have user's home dirs on a separate partition. Will these user home directories (used in 32 bit openSUSE with KDE 3.5) work in the 64 bit system? Do I have to adjust anything in them (config files etc.) ?

When I switched to 64 bit, I had no problems at all with stuff in /home. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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participants (15)

Anton Aylward
Basil Chupin
C
Carl Hartung
Carlos E. R.
Cristian Rodríguez
David Haller
Doug
George Olson
Istvan Gabor
James Knott
Larry Stotler
Oddball
Per Jessen
Philipp Thomas