Further to Mr Wilde's posting; if you do receive a response from SUSE, can you post it here? This is something I am interested in too. _ (\o/) H /_\ Henry Standing On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 14:40, Fergus Wilde wrote:

On Thursday 14 October 2004 14:27, suse@listas.deis.isec.pt wrote:

...

Hello,

I have two questions to make:

1. Is it legal to copy a CD/DVD of SuSE Pro and install it on any number of PCs at home freely? 2. Is it legal to copy a CD/DVD of SuSE Pro and install it on any number of PCs at a company freely?

You should contact SuSE directly about this. They are the only ones able to comment on your query with the legal force that you need in this case. There are licensing complexities concerning some of the commercial software on the DVD/CDs as far as I know, but if you are proposing to do either of the things you mention above I think you should check with them. It's certainly legal to put SuSE on more than one PC though.

...

Thanks in advance.

Francisco Maia

-- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB

Tel: 0161 834 7961 Fax: 0161 839 5797

http://www.chethams.org.uk

On Thursday 14 October 2004 17:20, Stephen Black wrote:

SuSE's own website states quite clearly that the product is subject to the GNU GPL. See page http://www.suse.com/us/private/support/licenses/ The text on that page states: 'The Linux kernel and the major part of all Linux applications are subject to the "GPL", a license that guarantees free availability and the disclosure of the source code.' There is a link on that page to a copy of the GNU GPL, the preamble of which states: ' For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that you have. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights.

We protect your rights with two steps: (1) copyright the software, and (2) offer you this license which gives you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify the software.'

I would have thought that the above is more than clear.

Wrong! I quote from your own words:

'The Linux kernel and the major part of all Linux applications are subject

Note the word 'major'. It does not say 'all'. So only _that_major_part_ is allowed to be copied. I don't know how it is with the remaining part. Cheers, Leen

On Thursday 14 October 2004 18:38, Stephen Black wrote:

Actually NOT MY WORDS, but SuSE's!

And it does say all Linux applications 'the major part of ALL LINUX APPLICATIONS'

How do you copy the major part ie 51% or more of an application. 51% of an application is not an application

The major part of all is still NOT all. Cheers, Leen

On Thursday 14 October 2004 19:08, jonlists wrote:

Oh, for crying out loud. The stuff is copyable without having to buy a license for every desktop. They're covering their butts in an attempt at lawyer-speak.

Stop worrying about it. Copy the stuff. Give it to your friends and family for Christmas.

I was just trying to point something out, but you're right, I'll stop with that. :) Happy Christmas ;) Cheers, Leen

At 04:20 PM 10/14/2004 +0100, Stephen Black wrote:

SuSE's own website states quite clearly that the product is subject to the GNU GPL. See page http://www.suse.com/us/private/support/licenses/ The text on that page states:

'The Linux kernel and the major part of all Linux applications are subject to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

the "GPL", a license that guarantees free availability and the disclosure of the source code.'

/snip/

I would have thought that the above is more than clear.

Steve Black

/snip/

...

...

...

1. Is it legal to copy a CD/DVD of SuSE Pro and install it on any number of PCs at home freely? 2. Is it legal to copy a CD/DVD of SuSE Pro and install it on any number of PCs at a company freely?

/snip/

Emphasis in the above quote added by me. I think that there are a number of commercial apps included on the DVDs that are not freely distributable. I'm not sure what they are, however. I should think that you could use them all on your home pc's, so long as you are not using those particular apps to do work which you intend to sell for profit. That would seem to me to be "fair use." (I'm not a lawyer, however.) OTOH, who would catch you? --doug

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 14:26 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:

The SuSE Linux 9.1 Professional box contains the following registered trademarks related to proprietary software contained within:

I don't know about all the mentioned software, but AFAIK, the following software are included on the CD, but not the commercial versions, it is the same versions that you can download from the web - no licenses:

RealPlayer MySQL Opera Adobe Sun

These names are mentioned because certain packages of these companies are included and it is registered trademarks, but it is not necessarily licensed versions. In fact, I have not seen any license for any software (except the GPL and LGPL) in my SuSE box or on the CD's. For instance, Sun is mentioned, because OpenOffice is included, but OpenOffice is GPL, but Sun are the owners.

(OpenOffice.org does seem the odd one out, but perhaps I'm mistaken about its IP status.)

OpenOffice has a non-commercial license. (GPL, LGPL and SISSL) StarOffice is the commercial version and it is not included with SuSE 9.1 afaik. PS: I just checked and my SuSE box do in fact include a piece of commercial software. I found a iAnyware CD in there that contains an evaluation license. On the CD is specifies some restrictions about distributing it. I have to get written permission from Sybase. But this a separate CD, the software is not included on the SuSE installation CD's -- Andre Truter | Software Engineer | Registered Linux user #185282 ICQ #40935899 | AIM: trusoftzaf | http://www.trusoft.co.za ~ "Oh Bother!" said the Borg, "We assimilated the Pooh!" ~

Jerry, On Thursday 14 October 2004 15:21, Jerome R. Westrick wrote:

...

If you got the BOX, (I got rid of mine a long time ago!), could you please quote the SuSE Text printed there, that says install it on anywhere you like, so we can end this discusion!

There is no such text on either the 9.0 or 9.1 Professional boxes. The only text related to licensing and copyrights, besides the registered trademark logos I enumerated, are these two paragraphs: "Copyright: Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds. SuSE and YaST are registered trademarks of SuSE LINUX AG. Adobe, the Adobe logo, and Reader are either registered trademarks or trademarks of Adobe Systems Incorporated in the US and/or other countries. Other products mentioned here may be registered trademarks of the respective manufacturers. All information is subject to change without prior notice. "Terms and conditions: The properties of the product contained in this box are exclusively and conclusively specified at our web site www.suse.com. Moreover, business transactions with entrepreneurs are subject to the Terms of Deliver B2B of SuSE LINUX AG. Business transactions with consumers are subject to the Terms of Delivery B2C of SuSE LINUX ASG> Both are published at our web site." Naturally, the buyout by Novel changes some of this. At the very least, references to SuSE LINUX AG will no doubt change. I'd be surprised if the entire text of these notices did not change in subsequent releases.

Jerry

Randall Schulz

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 16:04 -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:

Jerry,

On Thursday 14 October 2004 15:21, Jerome R. Westrick wrote:

...

...

If you got the BOX, (I got rid of mine a long time ago!), could you please quote the SuSE Text printed there, that says install it on anywhere you like, so we can end this discusion!

There is no such text on either the 9.0 or 9.1 Professional boxes. The only text related to licensing and copyrights, besides the registered trademark logos I enumerated, are these two paragraphs:

[..] As I went to bed last night, I thought about the fact that nowhere on the SuSE box or CD's does it state that you are *not* allowed to copy and distribute it. (Or I have not seen any - maybe they hide it) Up to SuSE 9.0, the YaST license stipulated that you may not copy and distribute it for financial gain. If I compare the iAnywhere CD's terms with the rest of the stuff in the box, I notice that the iAnywhere CD clearly stipulates that it may not be distributed, while none of the other media included has any such restrictions. Surely, if SuSE or any of the brands listed had an issue with the CD's being distributed, they would put a nice notice on it saying so. If you look at any commercial software, you will see that they clearly stipulate that you may not re-distribute the media or the software in any form. -- Andre Truter | Software Engineer | Registered Linux user #185282 ICQ #40935899 | AIM: trusoftzaf | http://www.trusoft.co.za ~ "Oh Bother!" said the Borg, "We assimilated the Pooh!" ~ Disclaimer and Confidentiality Warning This message is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are notified that any distribution, use of or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received the communication in error, please notify the sender immediately. The views and opinions expressed in this message are those of the individual sender of this message and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of ATIO. Consequently, ATIO does not accept responsibility for such views and opinions and this message should not be read as representing the views and opinions of ATIO without subsequent written confirmation. Each page attached hereto must also be read in conjunction with this disclaimer.

On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 02:47 -0400, Don Parris wrote:

Andre Truter wrote:

...

If you look at any commercial software, you will see that they clearly stipulate that you may not re-distribute the media or the software in any form.

Do you mean proprietary software? After all, there is such a thing as commercial & free software. ;) Sorry, couldn't resist that one!

Hehe. Yes, you are correct. Actually, I am referring to commercial, proprietary software. :-) -- Andre Truter | Software Engineer | Registered Linux user #185282 ICQ #40935899 | AIM: trusoftzaf | http://www.trusoft.co.za ~ "Oh Bother!" said the Borg, "We assimilated the Pooh!" ~ Disclaimer and Confidentiality Warning This message is intended for the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you are notified that any distribution, use of or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received the communication in error, please notify the sender immediately. The views and opinions expressed in this message are those of the individual sender of this message and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of ATIO. Consequently, ATIO does not accept responsibility for such views and opinions and this message should not be read as representing the views and opinions of ATIO without subsequent written confirmation. Each page attached hereto must also be read in conjunction with this disclaimer.

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 09:00, Henry Standing wrote:

Further to Mr Wilde's posting; if you do receive a response from SUSE, can you post it here? This is something I am interested in too.

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 14:40, Fergus Wilde wrote:

...

On Thursday 14 October 2004 14:27, suse@listas.deis.isec.pt wrote:

...

Hello,

I have two questions to make:

1. Is it legal to copy a CD/DVD of SuSE Pro and install it on any number of PCs at home freely? 2. Is it legal to copy a CD/DVD of SuSE Pro and install it on any number of PCs at a company freely?

You should contact SuSE directly about this. They are the only ones able to comment on your query with the legal force that you need in this case. There are licensing complexities concerning some of the commercial software on the DVD/CDs as far as I know, but if you are proposing to do either of the things you mention above I think you should check with them. It's certainly legal to put SuSE on more than one PC though.

At Penguicon2.0 (Troy Michigan) held last spring, SuSE Pro was the install-fest distro of choice, you brought in the system and DLUG did the install. IIRC copies of the CD's were included. The event was attended by a division manager from Novell, who's business card escapes me. Mike

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 18:26, Allen K wrote:

On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 06:54:31PM -0500, Mike McMullin wrote:

{snip}

...

At Penguicon2.0 (Troy Michigan) held last spring, SuSE Pro was the install-fest distro of choice, you brought in the system and DLUG did the install. IIRC copies of the CD's were included. The event was attended by a division manager from Novell, who's business card escapes me.

Mike

You live in Michigan?? Where at? Troy isn't too far from here.

Nope I'm in Detroit's Canadian Suburb. :)

On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 11:21, Allen wrote:

On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 05:52:23AM -0500, Mike McMullin wrote:

...

On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 18:26, Allen K wrote:

...

On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 06:54:31PM -0500, Mike McMullin wrote:

{snip}

...

...

At Penguicon2.0 (Troy Michigan) held last spring, SuSE Pro was the install-fest distro of choice, you brought in the system and DLUG did the install. IIRC copies of the CD's were included. The event was attended by a division manager from Novell, who's business card escapes me.

Mike

You live in Michigan?? Where at? Troy isn't too far from here.

Nope I'm in Detroit's Canadian Suburb. :)

Haha, I live in Port Huron, which is about 30 minutes north of Detroit. I live in Port Huron, the town where all Canadians come to visit and raid Wal Mart ;)

Used to live in Roseville (10 minutes north of Detroit) till I moved to sunny Florida. Still have family there. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989 SuSE since 1998 * Only reply to the list please*

On Thursday 14 October 2004 14:40, Fergus Wilde wrote:

On Thursday 14 October 2004 14:27, suse@listas.deis.isec.pt wrote:

...

Hello,

I have two questions to make:

1. Is it legal to copy a CD/DVD of SuSE Pro and install it on any number of PCs at home freely? 2. Is it legal to copy a CD/DVD of SuSE Pro and install it on any number of PCs at a company freely?

You should contact SuSE directly about this. They are the only ones able to comment on your query with the legal force that you need in this case. There are licensing complexities concerning some of the commercial software on the DVD/CDs as far as I know, but if you are proposing to do either of the things you mention above I think you should check with them. It's certainly legal to put SuSE on more than one PC though.

So in summary, some people thought about it in bed, others saw a Novell rep at a conference doing things, and we had various 'AFAIK' comments, all in a helpful spirit. But I'd stick to my guns in saying that if the OP wants legal certainty in his location and for his purposes he's better off contacting SuSE directly with an outline of what he wants to do than trying to read a vector of users' licensing theories. Cheers Fergus

...

Thanks in advance.

Francisco Maia

-- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB

Tel: 0161 834 7961 Fax: 0161 839 5797

http://www.chethams.org.uk

-- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: 0161 834 7961 Fax: 0161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk