On Tue, 2012-01-17 at 09:06 +0100, Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

On Tue, 2012-01-17 at 00:00 -0800, Roger Luedecke wrote:

...

I have rudimentary knowledge of C and C++, and have dabbled in Python. I have a basic understanding of OOP.

I want to be able to actually contribute in code. Alot of ideas I have seem fairly simple, but I don't have the skill yet to really work on projects. It would be better if I could get an idea started before bothering to propose it to any teams.

Ideally I would like to learn Qt, how to make RPMs, and how to use the OBS. Frankly though, I'm not too picky since there are a wide array of things I could work on that don't use those. I have a very hard time with books and such since I have a learning disability, but I learn very well with hands on stuff.

Roger,

About 'how to crated RPMs' I can suggest you a read: http://dominique.leuenberger.net/blog/2009/05/rpm-packaging-for-beginners/

=> It gives you basic insight into creating a .spec file.

If you wish, you can always find me on #opensuse-gnome on freenode. You're more than welcome to swing by and ask anything. We'll gladly get you started there. Best would be for you to find something you want to have packaged up (preferably for a start a single app / package, not an entire gnome/kde/lxde stack :P )

Dominique

I'm mostly interested in tinkering with single bits of software that I think we could add to openSUSE. For example, I wanted to try porting the greeter from Mint and Pardus to see how suitable those would be to adapt to replace our old greeter thingy. Or simply to be able to pull patches from upstream to merge for updates, or to port little programs that we are missing in OBS and such, like Zim. I bookmarked your blog entry and will read it, and am looking at the Junior Jobs. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 17.01.12, 09:12 +0100 schrieb C:

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 09:00, Roger Luedecke wrote:

...

I have rudimentary knowledge of C and C++, and have dabbled in Python. I have a basic understanding of OOP.

I want to be able to actually contribute in code. Alot of ideas I have seem fairly simple, but I don't have the skill yet to really work on projects. It would be better if I could get an idea started before bothering to propose it to any teams.

Ideally I would like to learn Qt, how to make RPMs, and how to use the OBS. Frankly though, I'm not too picky since there are a wide array of things I could work on that don't use those. I have a very hard time with books and such since I have a learning disability, but I learn very well with hands on stuff.

Maybe a more visible general mentoring program is a good idea here? We have http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Junior_jobs but... are enough people actually stepping up and tackling the JJs?

From my experience, the people on openSUSE channels where quite helpful to get me on speed. I used the project, buildservice, marketing and different devel channels as that was and is appropriate to my interessts and questions. My general user question continue in #opensuse or here.

I have a feeling there are a few of us here on the ML (and the Forums) who would be interested in stepping up and helping squash a few bugs or help with packaging - but we don't because of a perception of "it's too hard to learn" or "where do I start?"

That might be a proplem. I know some projects, which are very silent on email lists and chat a lot in IRC channels. Honestly, it took me years to use IRC myself. It is now my primary conversation channel for open source work. http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Junior_jobs#Communication

Of course that requires that someone (or several someones) who know how it all works is willing to divert time from packaging and fixing bugs to nudging the newbies in the right direction... and some new contributors willing to take the plunge.

If people have the feeling you want to contribute and learn, they are mostly happy to get you on speed. However the details on how to get together and finding attention can be a high barrier. kind regards Kai-Uwe Behrmann -- developing for colour management www.behrmann.name + www.oyranos.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

C wrote:

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 09:00, Roger Luedecke wrote:

...

I have rudimentary knowledge of C and C++, and have dabbled in Python. I have a basic understanding of OOP.

I want to be able to actually contribute in code. Alot of ideas I have seem fairly simple, but I don't have the skill yet to really work on projects. It would be better if I could get an idea started before bothering to propose it to any teams.

Ideally I would like to learn Qt, how to make RPMs, and how to use the OBS. Frankly though, I'm not too picky since there are a wide array of things I could work on that don't use those. I have a very hard time with books and such since I have a learning disability, but I learn very well with hands on stuff.

Maybe a more visible general mentoring program is a good idea here? We have http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Junior_jobs but... are enough people actually stepping up and tackling the JJs?

I have a feeling there are a few of us here on the ML (and the Forums) who would be interested in stepping up and helping squash a few bugs or help with packaging - but we don't because of a perception of "it's too hard to learn" or "where do I start?"

For someone who can read code, fix bugs and submit patches, the only hurdle is getting to know the build service. It IS a hurdle, but not unsurmountable. I think the build service documentation is lacking a lot (comprehensive howtos for instance), but asking on the -packaging list usually gets you going. There are also some good blogs out there. Familiarizing oneself with the spec file syntax is just something one has to do. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-3.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Thomas Taylor wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 09:52:54 +0100 Per Jessen wrote:

...

For someone who can read code, fix bugs and submit patches, the only hurdle is getting to know the build service. It IS a hurdle, but not unsurmountable. I think the build service documentation is lacking a lot (comprehensive howtos for instance), but asking on the -packaging list usually gets you going. There are also some good blogs out there. Familiarizing oneself with the spec file syntax is just something one has to do.

Hi Per; Would you please post us a few of those blogs to help folks getting started?

Hi Tom sure, I should have added them in my first post. I was initially referred to this one, which although not exactly a howto, did help me with my first steps with OBS: http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/06/20/opensuse-factory-fixing-packages I don't have any other links handy, but I know I've come across one or two other blogs which were helpful. There are also guides/references to the osc (the command line interface) and the web-ditto. Due to the SOPA sillyness today, I can't access most/all of the other openSUSE pages. :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (-3.9°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/18/2012 04:26 PM, Thomas Taylor pecked at the keyboard and wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 08:13:09 +0100 Per Jessen wrote:

...

Thomas Taylor wrote:

<snip>

...

Hi Tom

sure, I should have added them in my first post.

I was initially referred to this one, which although not exactly a howto, did help me with my first steps with OBS:

http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/06/20/opensuse-factory-fixing-packages

I don't have any other links handy, but I know I've come across one or two other blogs which were helpful. There are also guides/references to the osc (the command line interface) and the web-ditto. Due to the SOPA sillyness today, I can't access most/all of the other openSUSE pages. :-)

Thanks Per. Yeah, the SOPA/PIPA is worrisome to many of us and we're doing what we can to kill it or at least get it modified to be less invasive to users.

Tom (Seattle, -3.0°C)

Same here. I contacted my reps to express my dislike for SOPA/PIPA. Cape Coral, FL (USA) 23.3 C -- Ken Schneider SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Per Jessen wrote:

yeah, that's fair enough. Here are some more links:

http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/ man diff man patch info make http://wlug.org.nz/MakefileHowto I won't mention autoconf/cmake/qmake/bjam/scons etc. for now. Asking on -programming[-de] or -packaging is recommended for such stuff. -dnh -- Too bloated to crash, it can only bounce gently into the limits set by the laws of physics and stop, wobbling slightly. -- unknown -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2012-01-20 at 00:02 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:28 AM, Per Jessen wrote:

...

http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:OSC http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Tutorial http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Packaging_guidelines

The web interface - very nice, but afaik still limited when compared to the command line interface: https://build.opensuse.org/

Agreed, if you try to work exclusively with the WebUI you will not get very far.

You really need to use osc. Be warned it has a thousand args that make it do all sorts of things. So you won't master osc in an afternoon.

fyi: I just added some more info to the Tutorial wiki page. If we all did that as we learn things, it would become even more valuable. A lot of times, only the experts edit things like that and they leave out basic steps.

Greg Yeah, I realized the Web interface was basically useless a while ago. But, its not all that useful if I can't write spec files anyhow. The wiki so often is missing stuff or its inaccurate or out of date that I don't even look at it anymore unless the link is recommended to me. I would happily fix things if there was an editor, but as it stands I don't know the markup for the wiki and the ability to export to MediaWiki in LibreOffice doesn't actually work.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Am 20.01.12, 08:48 +0100 schrieb C:

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 08:15, Roger Luedecke wrote:

...

Yeah, I realized the Web interface was basically useless a while ago. But, its not all that useful if I can't write spec files anyhow. The wiki so often is missing stuff or its inaccurate or out of date that I don't even look at it anymore unless the link is recommended to me. I would happily fix things if there was an editor, but as it stands I don't know the markup for the wiki and the ability to export to MediaWiki in LibreOffice doesn't actually work.

Wiki markup is really really simple... in fact you can even add/correct content without using a single bit of markup... just plain text.

I sometimes use plain Wikimedia markup content and place that as is into emails. Works great except for some few constructs. kind regards Kai-Uwe Behrmann -- developing for colour management www.behrmann.name + www.oyranos.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:15:46PM -0800, Roger Luedecke wrote: [ 8< ]

The wiki so often is missing stuff or its inaccurate or out of date that I don't even look at it anymore

Then please mark the pages as outdated. Better: do it as Greg did. Enhance and polish existing pages. One extra free coffee to him!

unless the link is recommended to me. I would happily fix things if there was an editor, but as it stands I don't know the markup for the wiki

Markup? Sorry, even I'm able to modify the wiki pages. And my brain and html aren't compatible. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Formatting is a good summary and might be of help.

and the ability to export to MediaWiki in LibreOffice doesn't actually work.

Well, I also don't use LibreOffice to draft my mails I intend to send with mutt. ;) Or the general smart-ass advice: Try to circumvent any extra useless level of indirection. :)) Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 08:28:51 +0100 Per Jessen wrote:

Thomas Taylor wrote:

...

...

I was initially referred to this one, which although not exactly a howto, did help me with my first steps with OBS:

http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/06/20/opensuse-factory-fixing-packages

...

I don't have any other links handy, but I know I've come across one or two other blogs which were helpful. There are also guides/references to the osc (the command line interface) and the web-ditto. Due to the SOPA sillyness today, I can't access most/all of the other openSUSE pages. :-)

Thanks Per. Yeah, the SOPA/PIPA is worrisome to many of us and we're doing what we can to kill it or at least get it modified to be less invasive to users.

yeah, that's fair enough. Here are some more links:

http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:OSC http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Tutorial http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Packaging_guidelines

The web interface - very nice, but afaik still limited when compared to the command line interface: https://build.opensuse.org/

To get started, I think(!) the best approach is to be stubborn: "I WILL do this!" Pick something to fix or upgrade, then try and try and try again :-) My own first step was upgrading nasm to include a patch I had submitted upstream a while ago. Nothing special, but it takes you through the motions.

Thanks for those links Per. Will check them out later. Just trying to catch up on several hundred emails after internet service was out for over three days due to an ice storm here. Tom (Seattle 3.0°C) -- Tom Taylor - retired penguin openSUSE 11.4 x86_64 openSUSE 12.1 KDE 4.6.00, FF 4.0 KDE 4.7.2, FF 8.0 claws-mail 3.7.9 registered linux user 263467 linxt-At-comcast-DoT-net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 12:06, Damon Register wrote:

I hope that no one will get too upset for me getting a little OT.  While reading this something just came to my mind.  This morning I read http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16623831 That in turn reminded me of when at Christmas time someone said that he was taking a vacation and there were a few well wishers including me. I mentioned seeing a video of a German singer and there was a reply that that YouTube video is blocked in Germany.  I guess that means there is some form of censorship there?  Is Germany successful in distinguishing between the illegal and not?  Has anyone in Germany run into problems with search sites not showing things that would be found outside?  Has Germany's level of censorship ever affected SuSE in any way?

If we want to take this into detail, I'd suggest private email or off-topic list (although I suspect not so many people are subscribed there) My experience with it is... Germany's censorship related to software/internet primarily focuses on perceived copyright. In particular, with YouTube, you will find that a lot of videos are blocked per requests GEMA, Sony, WMG etc. I've seen a few instances where they blocked original content that they did not own the rights on. Streaming media services such as Grooveshark are also blocked (just recently happened) - they can be unblocked if Groveshark were to agree to pay what amounts to protection money. Spoitfy also face the same issues from GEMA. Germany also censors video game content (either by requiring blood/bodies/rag doll effects be removed, or the game is 100% banned for sale). None of these restrictions hit openSUSE as far as I know. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On 01/17/2012 03:12 AM, C wrote:

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 09:00, Roger Luedecke wrote:

...

I have rudimentary knowledge of C and C++, and have dabbled in Python. I have a basic understanding of OOP.

I want to be able to actually contribute in code. Alot of ideas I have seem fairly simple, but I don't have the skill yet to really work on projects. It would be better if I could get an idea started before bothering to propose it to any teams.

Ideally I would like to learn Qt, how to make RPMs, and how to use the OBS. Frankly though, I'm not too picky since there are a wide array of things I could work on that don't use those. I have a very hard time with books and such since I have a learning disability, but I learn very well with hands on stuff.

Maybe a more visible general mentoring program is a good idea here?

We discussed a general mentoring program at osc11. Overall I think we agreed on a rough framework how it could work, but it appears no on that was part of the discussion had the time or energy to get this off the ground.

We have http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Junior_jobs but... are enough people actually stepping up and tackling the JJs?

I have a feeling there are a few of us here on the ML (and the Forums) who would be interested in stepping up and helping squash a few bugs or help with packaging - but we don't because of a perception of "it's too hard to learn" or "where do I start?"

Of course that requires that someone (or several someones) who know how it all works is willing to divert time from packaging and fixing bugs to nudging the newbies in the right direction... and some new contributors willing to take the plunge.

C.

-- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rjschwei@suse.com rschweik@ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org