...

& what license does suse products follow? Is it legal to re-distribute copies of SuSE?

You can sell copies of the software, but I'm sure Novell/SUSE would want you to remove references to them. So you'd have some artwork to replace, and then you could definitely sell it, since as I recall Novell GPL'ed YaST, which made it an option for me to switch from Fedora to SUSE. I think Norrbring Linux has a nice ring to it. --andy -- Alex Lowe's 3 Rules for Climbing: 1 - Come Back Alive! 2 - Come Back Still Friends With Your Partners! 3 - Get To The Top!

Sid Boyce wrote:

Mayank Jain wrote:

...

Hi all,

When will be SuSE 9.3 be out for public? any rough idea? thnx.

What will the advantage be if someone buys 9.3 over 9.2?.

My UK shipper says the end of the month, so hopefully we shall be seeing stuff on the list in a couple of weeks. Perfectly legal, you can buy one copy and deploy it, copy it, give it away, but not sell it. Regards Sid.

OK great! How about 10 people tossing into a pot 10 dollars and each making a copy from one purchase? HiHi! -- 73 de Donn Washburn Hpage: " http://www.hal-pc.org/~n5xwb " Ham Callsign N5XWB Email: " n5xwb@hal-pc.org " 307 Savoy St. HAMs: " n5xwb@arrl.net " Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 " http://counter.li.org " #279316

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 02:06, Donn Washburn wrote:

Sid Boyce wrote:

...

Mayank Jain wrote:

...

Hi all,

When will be SuSE 9.3 be out for public? any rough idea? thnx.

What will the advantage be if someone buys 9.3 over 9.2?.

...

My UK shipper says the end of the month, so hopefully we shall be seeing stuff on the list in a couple of weeks. Perfectly legal, you can buy one copy and deploy it, copy it, give it away, but not sell it. Regards Sid.

OK great! How about 10 people tossing into a pot 10 dollars and each making a copy from one purchase?

HiHi!

Not illegal, but a bit cheap if you come from a hard currency country and have a job, I'd say. Red Hat's recent good financial results are said in the press to be a result of their subscription-based updates, so they have steady revenue. I'd like to see Novell continue to put SuSE out with free updates and one-off purchases. I also don't want to see the consumer / home product hived off like Fedora. Now I know I'm comparing apples and oranges to a degree in this, but it seems to me to be important that Novell do shift enough units and thus stay interested in keeping SuSE what it is. I also know there are plenty of people around the world who would find it very hard to come up with the dollars / euros, and they should be copying like mad. But if you've got a half-reasonable dollar / euro / sterling income, I think it would be a good move for the future of Linux we all hope to enjoy to actually spring for a set of original disks. You get a great deal for your buck, after all. Cheers Fergus

-- 73 de Donn Washburn Hpage: " http://www.hal-pc.org/~n5xwb " Ham Callsign N5XWB Email: " n5xwb@hal-pc.org " 307 Savoy St. HAMs: " n5xwb@arrl.net " Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 " http://counter.li.org " #279316

-- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: +44 161 834 7961 Fax: +44 161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 12:29, Mark Crean wrote:

Fergus Wilde wrote: [snip]

...

Not illegal, but a bit cheap if you come from a hard currency country and have a job, I'd say. Red Hat's recent good financial results are said in the press to be a result of their subscription-based updates, so they have steady revenue. I'd like to see Novell continue to put SuSE out with free updates and one-off purchases. I also don't want to see the consumer / home product hived off like Fedora. Now I know I'm comparing apples and oranges to a degree in this, but it seems to me to be important that Novell do shift enough units and thus stay interested in keeping SuSE what it is.

[snip]

Well, quite a lot of people may well be a little reluctant to pay up for SuSe 9.3 if this early review is to be believed. It says that multimedia functionality has been crippled to the point that if you want to play mp3s and the like, except through realplayer, you will have to install not only recompiled apps like amarok but also recompile kde-multimedia and other deep-level stuff. Sounds a complete nightmare, not least because recompling fundamental things will make updating that much more complicated. Hope it's not true, or that packman comes to the rescue. Otherwise, this could make SuSE very hard for some of us. See

http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=3851

:)

Fish

Bleh, yes, that sounds frustrating. But perhaps a reason for not upgrading rather than trying to do so in a cut-price way. Since SuSE folks clearly know how to arrange multimedia, we can only assume it's perceived or real threat of some kind of legal action, which again depends largely from US legislation and legal precedent. Sitting in the UK, one can only urge US readers to push against this kind of corporate bullying by the film & music industries. I hate realplayer, I have to say ... -- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: +44 161 834 7961 Fax: +44 161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk

On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 08:49 -0400, Bryan Tyson wrote:

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 07:29, Mark Crean wrote:

...

Well, quite a lot of people may well be a little reluctant to pay up for SuSe 9.3 if this early review is to be believed. It says that multimedia functionality has been crippled to the point that if you want to play mp3s and the like, except through realplayer, you will have to install not only recompiled apps like amarok but also recompile kde-multimedia and other deep-level stuff. Sounds a complete nightmare, not least because recompling fundamental things will make updating that much more complicated. Hope it's not true, or that packman comes to the rescue. Otherwise, this could make SuSE very hard for some of us. See

http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=3851

I find the multimedia situation described in this review very disappointing. What were they thinking?

Bryan

In not so certain terms it is referred to as CYA. <rant> Do you remember when M$ wanted to put DRM in the PC hardware so that they (M$) could control what was installed/played/looked at? It appears that that idea has hit the circular file cabinet and now there is another way to fight linux, multimedia support. Take away multimedia support and how many people will go back to windows to get it. Those of us that live in the US need to write our reps in Washington but I fear it will do no good. M$ has done a good job of paying off (lobbying is the term they actually use here) our reps to their advantage. Take away multimedia and get them ( the users ) to go back to M$. Why is it that M$ can play ALL multimedia formats ( music and DVD ) but it is not allowed (legal) on linux, especially DVD playback? </rant> Sorry for the rant. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 * Only reply to the list please* "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 14:17, Anders Johansson wrote:

First of all, which version of windows can play DVDs out of the box? None of the ones I've tried could. I had to get third party software to do it.

That's my experience too. Often (but by no means always) you will get a DVD playing application if you buy a new computer with Windows preinstalled, but Windows itself doesn't have that capability. As an aside, Mac OS X does seem to include DVD playing software in the package.

Secondly, the only thing removed from 9.3 is mp3 support, and there will be a solution for that before it hits the stores

:) ... I, like everybody else, would like to see a working DVD playback solution shipping as part of SuSE, but I imagine the licensing cost to the DVD consortium would add too much to the cost of the package. Q: Could a software distributor (e.g. SuSE) simply get a volume license from the DVD people to distribute DVD playback software, at a per-unit price, then add that price in to the price of the distribution, and legally ship e.g. Xine/MPlayer/VLC or whatever with DVD playback enabled? Hmmm. -- Bill

On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 15:17 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:

First of all, which version of windows can play DVDs out of the box? None of the ones I've tried could. I had to get third party software to do it.

Yes, but why is the -no- third party software available for linux? there was a package available last year but I can no longer find it.

Secondly, the only thing removed from 9.3 is mp3 support, and there will be a solution for that before it hits the stores

I hope so. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 * Only reply to the list please* "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 07:29 am, Mark Crean wrote:

Well, quite a lot of people may well be a little reluctant to pay up for SuSe 9.3 if this early review is to be believed. It says that multimedia functionality has been crippled to the point that if you want to play mp3s and the like, except through realplayer, you will have to install not only recompiled apps like amarok but also recompile kde-multimedia and other deep-level stuff. Sounds a complete nightmare, not least because recompling fundamental things will make updating that much more complicated. Hope it's not true, or that packman comes to the rescue. Otherwise, this could make SuSE very hard for some of us. See

http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=3851

Thanks for this link. I've been waiting to order 9.3 but I may now skip it. Too bad. I normally spring for each new release.

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 16:22, Clayton wrote:

I will probably cancel the pre-order and wait to see if they fix this stupidity.

My 9.3 installation plays mp3s just fine, thank you. It's just not in the box, but it's easily remedied, no hassle, and absolutely no need to recompile anything.

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 17:28, Stan Glasoe wrote:

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 9:59 am, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 16:22, Clayton wrote:

...

I will probably cancel the pre-order and wait to see if they fix this stupidity.

My 9.3 installation plays mp3s just fine, thank you. It's just not in the box, but it's easily remedied, no hassle, and absolutely no need to recompile anything.

Anders,

Quit holding out on us and PLEASE tell us what needs to be done now so we can prepare for it when our 9.3 boxes arrive. Does YOU for 9.3 already contain the fix?

Yes, there are optional packages called 'multimedia packs' on the YOU server now, you can have a look at them. They need to be selected manually, just like the nvidia driver or the MS truetype fonts, and they have a warning attached saying only use if legal in your jurisdiction (or words to that effect)

The MadPenguin article implies that SUSE deliberately compiled all MP3 capable programs without MP3 support; is this not correct?

No, it is incorrect. mp3 support in most programs come from shared libraries. Libraries missing = no support, libraries present = support. There is rarely a need to hard code something like that.

Why was MP3 excluded from 9.3?

No clue, but I would guess it's for legal reasons.

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 10:38, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 17:28, Stan Glasoe wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 9:59 am, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 16:22, Clayton wrote:

...

I will probably cancel the pre-order and wait to see if they fix this stupidity.

My 9.3 installation plays mp3s just fine, thank you. It's just not in the box, but it's easily remedied, no hassle, and absolutely no need to recompile anything.

Anders,

Quit holding out on us and PLEASE tell us what needs to be done now so we can prepare for it when our 9.3 boxes arrive. Does YOU for 9.3 already contain the fix?

Yes, there are optional packages called 'multimedia packs' on the YOU server now, you can have a look at them. They need to be selected manually, just like the nvidia driver or the MS truetype fonts, and they have a warning attached saying only use if legal in your jurisdiction (or words to that effect)

...

The MadPenguin article implies that SUSE deliberately compiled all MP3 capable programs without MP3 support; is this not correct?

No, it is incorrect. mp3 support in most programs come from shared libraries. Libraries missing = no support, libraries present = support. There is rarely a need to hard code something like that.

...

Why was MP3 excluded from 9.3?

No clue, but I would guess it's for legal reasons.

Thanks, Anders. That's made me feel much better. Now I'm looking forward to my 9.3...mainly though for the hopes it'll see my audigy2 card, heh.

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 12:24 pm, John B wrote: <snip>

...

...

Why was MP3 excluded from 9.3?

No clue, but I would guess it's for legal reasons.

Thanks, Anders. That's made me feel much better. Now I'm looking forward to my 9.3...mainly though for the hopes it'll see my audigy2 card, heh.

I would guess that one teansy problem they may have is the fact that the owner of the mp3 codec patent lives in Germany , is a German citizen ( I believe so anyway) And that his patent was issued either in Germany or the EU ( sorry I don't know much about patent law.Or worse I haven't any idea how it is handled in the EU, whether by country or for the whole area) it's on my list of stuff to read.. tho , not at the top of it <g>) I suspect that gentleman has made his position clear vis a vis the cost of the inclusion, and it is beyond what Suse thinks it's customers are willing to pay for it.. since you can go dl the lame files yourself .. ditto any other item you may need.. rather like now ... no? mp3's haven't worked out of the box since I can't remember when. But it's no biggie to get it working.. some will find it much easier than their adventures w/ the NVDIA drivers.. tho I've not had any problems w/ them in ages either.. So it's be like, 3 clicks instead of one or two.. what's that worth to you , huh? -- j "Any Genuine contest between liberty and equality is a contest that liberty must lose." R. Dworkin in Sovereign Virtue:The theory and Practice of Equality

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 10:59, Anders Johansson wrote:

My 9.3 installation plays mp3s just fine, thank you. It's just not in the box, but it's easily remedied, no hassle, and absolutely no need to recompile anything.

How did you remedy it? Thank you. Bryan ******************************************************** Powered by SuSE Linux 9.2 Professional KDE 3.3.0 KMail 1.7.1 This is a Microsoft-free computer Bryan S. Tyson bryantyson@earthlink.net ********************************************************

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 07:29, Mark Crean wrote:

Fergus Wilde wrote: [snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Well, quite a lot of people may well be a little reluctant to pay up for SuSe 9.3 if this early review is to be believed. It says that multimedia functionality has been crippled to the point that if you want to play mp3s and the like, except through realplayer, you will have to install not only recompiled apps like amarok but also recompile kde-multimedia and other deep-level stuff. Sounds a complete nightmare, not least because recompling fundamental things will make updating that much more complicated. Hope it's not true, or that packman comes to the rescue. Otherwise, this could make SuSE very hard for some of us. See

http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=3851

Everyone doesn't need mp3 playback. I don't have any mp3 files anywhere. All my music is in OGG. My iRiver IHP40 plays ogg files just fine. Perhaps reducing mp3 support will encourage more people to look at the free alternatives.

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 06:29, Mark Crean wrote: <snip>

Well, quite a lot of people may well be a little reluctant to pay up for SuSe 9.3 if this early review is to be believed. It says that multimedia functionality has been crippled to the point that if you want to play mp3s and the like, except through realplayer, you will have to install not only recompiled apps like amarok but also recompile kde-multimedia and other deep-level stuff. Sounds a complete nightmare, not least because recompling fundamental things will make updating that much more complicated. Hope it's not true, or that packman comes to the rescue. Otherwise, this could make SuSE very hard for some of us. See

http://www.madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=3851

:)

Fish

Oh no!...I sure hope it's not true about the multimedia part, or that it's fixed before it starts shipping. I just pre-ordered yesterday! <sigh>...what rotten luck and timing I seem to have.

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote:

Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you. Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars. In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600. I appreciate the significant differences between a Windows release and a SuSE release, and I do like SuSE, but I do wonder about this continuous upgrade path. If anything I'd be happier with a yearly release on the grounds of actually having the OS installed for a reasonable amount of time. BTW I'm not a Yank, just using dollars coz it was simple math ;-) -- Steve Boddy

On Thursday 07 April 2005 19:18, Ken Schneider wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote:

...

Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you. Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars. In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600. [snip] The main difference is that of you have 10 PC's to update it blows that

On Fri, 2005-04-08 at 00:09 +0100, Stephen Boddy wrote: theory out of the water. 10 X $125 = $1250 Vs $600. Keep in mind you only have to buy one copy of SuSE Vs 10 of windows and you don't get all of the other software updates as well. Last I knew the windows update didn't include the office updates.

Even for one PC maintaining Windows adds up. There's the yearly subscription to pay for necessities like Norton AntiVirus and SystemWorks just to keep the Windows functioning. (Also remember to throw in the dollar value for your valuable time to run all the tools and perform routine scans for exploits and hacks that just seem to magically appear on Windows.) Also, SuSE 9.x upgrades don't supply just a replacement OS as the Longhorn upgrade will. It includes gigabytes of productivity software, office suites, tools, utilties, games, etc. To draw a fair comparison remember to include paying for subscriptions and upgrades for all the Windows closed and proprietary applications during this time up through the release of Longhorn. In the end the boxed Linux distro looks like a bargain to me on just a single computer. Multiply that bargain times multiple computers if you have them as Ken S., says. Plus SuSE includes some of the nicest user manuals and system admin docs printed on actual paper. My wife's computer came with XP which included a fold-out poster as documentation. Money well spent (not).

On Thu April 7 2005 7:18 pm, Ken Schneider wrote:

...

BTW I'm not a Yank, just using dollars coz it was simple math ;-) -- Steve Boddy

The main difference is that of you have 10 PC's to update it blows that theory out of the water. 10 X $125 = $1250 Vs $600. Keep in mind you only have to buy one copy of SuSE Vs 10 of windows and you don't get all of the other software updates as well. Last I knew the windows update didn't include the office updates.

You're right.....it DOESN'T. ROUGHLY the price of 11 pc's would be $380 for the first copy, and $75 per copy after...a total of $1,130. Fred -- The only bug free software from MickySoft is still shrink-wrapped in their warehouse..."

On Thursday 07 April 2005 03:09 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you. Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars. In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600.

Dude, you miss the obvious. Its not against the EULA to buy one license of Suse and install it on ALL your machines. Try that with Longhorn!! -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

John Andersen wrote:

On Thursday 07 April 2005 03:09 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you. Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars. In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600.

Dude, you miss the obvious. Its not against the EULA to buy one license of Suse and install it on ALL your machines. Try that with Longhorn!!

Or XP for that matter and consider what's included in SuSE as opposed to Windows. Linux is fast changing and developing and I can say the experience with each upgrade is enhanced, to take a cue from MS, we'd still be on 2.2.kernels and screaming about what hardware isn't supported. Did I read somewhere MS have stopped charging for SP's? - that are nearly all bug fixes, i.e not enhancements. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM Mainframes and Sun Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux for all Computing Tasks

On Friday 08 April 2005 18:33, Fred A. Miller wrote:

On Thu April 7 2005 7:09 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote:

...

Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you.

I probably should have said "I'm going to play devil's advocate here". Cut me in half and you'll find a green gecko in there. I've used, and mostly enjoyed, SuSE since the 5 or 6 series.

...

Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars.

You don't know that - NO pricing has been published by MickySoft.

I took a price off the net for a WinXP Pro upgrade. I wouldn't expect M$ to bump this up too much. They struggled to convince a large percentage that XP was necessary. Saddling Longhorn with a significantly larger upgrade cost will really damage the take-up.

...

In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600.

I appreciate the significant differences between a Windows release and a SuSE release, and I do like SuSE, but I do wonder about this continuous upgrade path. If anything I'd be happier with a yearly release on the grounds of actually having the OS installed for a reasonable amount of time.

Then, do as some do and only buy it once a year......simple enough.

I think I'm just getting jaded in my old age, (32 ;-) The last few releases have been a bit hit and miss in places, and I just haven't felt "compelled" to buy upgrades. That's not quite the right word, perhaps "excited enough" is better. The big selling point of SuSE (and most other distros) is the packaging of software, but this has it's downsides too. Sometimes I have to start messing around compiling and installing stuff that SuSE don't do, which defeats the purpose of having package management. I dabbled with gentoo for a week or two, but even with a fairly light system, all the constant compiling started to bore me. I think I need to go and contemplate my navel for a while and figure out what I want from my distro.

...

BTW I'm not a Yank, just using dollars coz it was simple math ;-)

It works.

Fred

-- The only bug free software from MickySoft is still shrink-wrapped in their warehouse..."

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

-- Steve Boddy

On Friday April 8 2005 3:26 pm, Fred A. Miller wrote:

On Fri April 8 2005 4:58 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Friday 08 April 2005 18:33, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

On Thu April 7 2005 7:09 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote:

...

Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I always get excited about a new release. If someting isn't right in it, I bitch......everyone here knows that. However, having said that, there's also NO ONE who is a bigger supporter of SUSE than me.

Me too. I ordered 9.3 as soon as I could. I 'need it' like a hole in my head:-) I was going to wait for Kde 3.4 until 9.3 came out - then I read about some of the problems people were having and I thought "that sounds like fun, gotta try it." Rich -- Rich Matson Reno, Nv. USA

On Apr 10, 2005 4:33 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote:

On Fri April 8 2005 11:56 pm, C. Richard Matson wrote:

...

On Friday April 8 2005 3:26 pm, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

On Fri April 8 2005 4:58 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Friday 08 April 2005 18:33, Fred A. Miller wrote:

...

On Thu April 7 2005 7:09 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote: > Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I always get excited about a new release. If someting isn't right in it, I bitch......everyone here knows that. However, having said that, there's also NO ONE who is a bigger supporter of SUSE than me.

Me too. I ordered 9.3 as soon as I could. I 'need it' like a hole in my head:-) I was going to wait for Kde 3.4 until 9.3 came out - then I read about some of the problems people were having and I thought "that sounds like fun, gotta try it." Rich

As I said......I always want what's "new" from SUSE. I am hoping that KPilot in 9.3 works proper with ALL Palms - 9.2 - NOT!!

Fred

-- The only bug free software from MickySoft is still shrink-wrapped in their warehouse..."

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Personally I wish I could get my trusty old Psion 3a to speak to my SuSE tin.... Psion 5's yes, anything below..nope. Yes I did contact the developer. He stopped work on it :-( -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On Friday 08 April 2005 19:31, Brad Bourn wrote:

Along with the other comments, this in not the correct comparison.

The compairable SuSE product is not SuSE standard or pro. It is SuSE Linux Enterprise. This has a different release cycle.

Err.. To me Longhorn is the next release of Windows XP Home/Pro, so SuSE Pro (standard is dead) is the comparable product. If I'd talked about 2003 Server or the Data Center edition then I'd agree to compare with Enterprise.

B-)

On Thursday 07 April 2005 05:09 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote:

...

Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you. Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars. In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600.

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

-- Steve Boddy

On Friday 08 April 2005 20:55, Brad Bourn wrote:

hmmm, ok, I see the distinction.

What about Novell desktop cost and release schedule?

I keep hearing on this list that Pro is for recreation/experimenting. (It is the only one I've ever used, server or desktop (Pro that is))

Well, my opinion would be: SuSE x.x Std. == Windows XP Home (SuSE x.x Pro. | Novell Desktop Linux) == Windows XP Pro SuSE Linux Enterprise == Windows 2003 Server Not too sure about Data Center Of course this is not comparing them on a feature basis, but more a target market basis. BTW Any chance you could stop top posting?

B-)

On Friday 08 April 2005 01:44 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Friday 08 April 2005 19:31, Brad Bourn wrote:

...

Along with the other comments, this in not the correct comparison.

The compairable SuSE product is not SuSE standard or pro. It is SuSE Linux Enterprise. This has a different release cycle.

Err.. To me Longhorn is the next release of Windows XP Home/Pro, so SuSE Pro (standard is dead) is the comparable product. If I'd talked about 2003 Server or the Data Center edition then I'd agree to compare with Enterprise.

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

-- Steve Boddy

On Friday 08 April 2005 03:07 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

Well, my opinion would be:

SuSE x.x Std. == Windows XP Home (SuSE x.x Pro. | Novell Desktop Linux) == Windows XP Pro SuSE Linux Enterprise == Windows 2003 Server Not too sure about Data Center

So what is the difference (if any) in cost / release schedule between Pro and Novell Desktop? B-)

On Apr 8, 2005 5:17 PM, Brad Bourn wrote:

On Friday 08 April 2005 03:07 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

Well, my opinion would be:

SuSE x.x Std. == Windows XP Home (SuSE x.x Pro. | Novell Desktop Linux) == Windows XP Pro SuSE Linux Enterprise == Windows 2003 Server Not too sure about Data Center

So what is the difference (if any) in cost / release schedule between Pro and Novell Desktop?

B-)

I believe that Novell Linux Desktop (NLD) is currently layered above SLES 9. So the base OS component is only getting updated once a year, but support is concievably available for 5 years. (ie. If you pay for the much more expense SLES 9 support you can get it for 5 years.) I don't know how often the GUI aspects of NLD are going to be released, nor how long support will be available. As I understand it, purchasers of NLD are expected to buy support for every user ($50/yr for the duration?), but this gives them the right to pick up the phone and actually call someone who works for Novell. That is actually quite a bargain if I understand it right. (ie. phone support for MS product line is not included in the previously discussed prices, so they are not comparable.) Greg -- Greg Freemyer

On Friday 08 April 2005 01:07 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:

On Friday 08 April 2005 20:55, Brad Bourn wrote:

...

hmmm, ok, I see the distinction.

What about Novell desktop cost and release schedule?

I keep hearing on this list that Pro is for recreation/experimenting. (It is the only one I've ever used, server or desktop (Pro that is))

Well, my opinion would be:

SuSE x.x Std. == Windows XP Home (SuSE x.x Pro. | Novell Desktop Linux) == Windows XP Pro SuSE Linux Enterprise == Windows 2003 Server Not too sure about Data Center

Of course this is not comparing them on a feature basis, but more a target market basis.

Good thing you made that last clarification, because on the technical merit of the products involved your analysis is not correct. Windows Home is severely limited in the networking area and quite dangerous to install in any size network, as the sharing is essentially wide open. SuSE OTOH, installs securely even with the now defunct STD edition. Std edition simply lacked some server daemons, all of which could be installed via Yast from the ftp site. Pro offers everything SLE did except paid versions of some daemons. If you know what you are doing there is never a need for SLE unless you want the support and ease of configuring for large environments out of the box. Of course the same could be said for 2003 server. Its just more expensive with tighter more restrictive licensing, but offers no performance benefit over Windows 2000. WHICH BRINGS UP another point often missing in the cost comparison. How much does it cost to support the number of connections your organization requires? Windows is sold on a per-connection basis. Linux (any flavor) is not. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Friday 08 April 2005 01:37 pm, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Friday 08 April 2005 23:27, John Andersen wrote:

...

Pro offers everything SLE did except paid versions of some daemons. If you know what you are doing there is never a need for SLE unless you want the support and ease of configuring for large environments out of the box.

SuSE Linux Standard is a server release, based on SLES 8. It includes many server daemons

SLE is a mailing list :)

But SLE is also SuSE Linux Enterprise server. http://www.novell.com/products/linuxenterpriseserver/ -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Apr 9, 2005 9:37 AM, Anders Norrbring wrote:

...

On Friday 08 April 2005 01:37 pm, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Friday 08 April 2005 23:27, John Andersen wrote:

...

...

Pro offers everything SLE did except paid versions of some daemons. If you know what you are doing there is never a need for SLE unless you want the support and ease of configuring for large environments out of the box.

SuSE Linux Standard is a server release, based on SLES 8. It includes many server daemons

SLE is a mailing list :)

But SLE is also SuSE Linux Enterprise server. http://www.novell.com/products/linuxenterpriseserver/

Nah... :) It's abbreviated as 'SLES', not SLE

Anders.

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Sorry guys but this whole thread rather amuses me. I don't mean that in a nasty way though :-) It's just that I have moved over to Linux (80% that is, I have to use M$ for athe odd thing unfortunately) to get away from the constant upgrading cycle that M$ tries its hardest to lock PC users into. -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On Apr 9, 2005 1:52 PM, James Knott wrote:

Kevanf1 wrote:

...

Sorry guys but this whole thread rather amuses me. I don't mean that in a nasty way though :-) It's just that I have moved over to Linux (80% that is, I have to use M$ for athe odd thing unfortunately) to get away from the constant upgrading cycle that M$ tries its hardest to lock PC users into.

I don't get the impression SuSE or other Linux distros are trying to lock you in. They're just updating their product. There's nothing to stop you from using older versions and updating them on your own.

Also, compare the cost. With Linux, you can get the software without charge, if you so desire and use it on as many systems as you like. Sir Billy gets a bit annoyed, if you do that with Windows.

-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com

Oh don't get me wrong, James I know that there is no lock in like with Window$. It's just the upgrade path thing. Honestly it does smack of M$ practise. But what the heck, I'd actually prefer a lock in to a Linux OS anyday :-) -- Take care. Kevan Farmer 34 Hill Street Cheslyn Hay Staffordshire WS6 7HR

On Saturday April 9 2005 1:51 pm, Michael W Cocke wrote:

On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:31:53 -0600, you wrote:

Mike-

(Who's had 9.3 on order for 30+ days and is trying to be patient...)

Meeee Toooo!!!! Rich -- Rich Matson Reno, Nv. USA

On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 16:09, Stephen Boddy wrote:

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote:

...

Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you. Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars. In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600.

I skip short releases. I usually buy only one a year. I bought 8.2 Pro and then 9.1 OEM. I am debating 9.2 with intact multimedia and 9.3 just out. -- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/

The May 2005 edition of Linux Magazine (UK version; called Linux Pro Magazine in the US) offeres a DVD with 9.2 PRO. This might help with your "debate" and there are some interesting articles about Wine, VMWARE and User Mode Linux.... Rich On Sat, 2005-04-09 at 10:43 -0700, Carl William Spitzer IV wrote:

On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 16:09, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote:

...

Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you. Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars. In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600.

I skip short releases. I usually buy only one a year. I bought 8.2 Pro and then 9.1 OEM. I am debating 9.2 with intact multimedia and 9.3 just out.

-- ___ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ | | | | [__ | | | |___ |_|_| ___] | \/

-- Remember, all Windows-based machines are, by definition, fault tolerant. They run Windows don't they?!?!?!?

On Sunday 10 April 2005 07:36, Mike McMullin wrote:

On Sat, 2005-04-09 at 13:43, Carl William Spitzer IV wrote:

...

On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 16:09, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote:

...

Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you. Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars. In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600.

Guess what! It gets worse than that. The company I worked for in the UK purchased M$ licences for each development programmer, which meant that we were each entitled to download Windows XP (as well as other software). Then our company went to Dell and ordered a stack of new naked PCs - no O.S. installed. But, and here's the catch, Dell are in a contract with M$ that no machine will leave their premises without XP. Outcome: although we had paid for XP we had to pay for it again on each new PC. Beat that for money grubbing! Happy days now that I'm off the bottle. Colin

...

I skip short releases. I usually buy only one a year. I bought 8.2 Pro and then 9.1 OEM. I am debating 9.2 with intact multimedia and 9.3 just out.

I'm thinking about 9.3, depending on what I hear on the list. One thing I've got to say about the article that was replied to. You can take that $60 and divide it by the number of boxes you install it on, you can't do that with M$, and at a certain point you're going to have to buy a version for new windows users ($300+ U.S.?) if your current version (like 98se) isn't listed as a upgrade from candidate.

On Sunday 10 April 2005 11:15, John Andersen wrote:

On Saturday 09 April 2005 05:08 pm, Colin Carter wrote:

...

On Sunday 10 April 2005 07:36, Mike McMullin wrote:

...

On Sat, 2005-04-09 at 13:43, Carl William Spitzer IV wrote:

...

On Thu, 2005-04-07 at 16:09, Stephen Boddy wrote:

...

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 20:46, John Andersen wrote:

...

Its SO cheap compared to windows (any flavor).

I'm going to be controversial here and disagree with you. Time between Windows XP and Longhorn is going to be roughly 5 years at least. Price of an upgrade will be somewhere in the range of $125 dollars. In that time SuSE will have released ten releases (6 month release cycle). At a cost of $60 for each upgrade you're looking at $600.

Then our company went to Dell and ordered a stack of new naked PCs - no O.S. installed. But, and here's the catch, Dell are in a contract with M$ that no machine will leave their premises without XP. Outcome: although we had paid for XP we had to pay for it again on each new PC. Beat that for money grubbing! Happy days now that I'm off the bottle.

Hmmm. your purchasing agent got railroaded..

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/desktops_n?c=us&cs=04 &l=en&s=bsd

Very interesting John. I have never heard of this "n series"; maybe a legal way around their M$ contract? Our problem occurred more than a year ago: maybe Dell have seen the light? One can only hope! Cheers, Colin

On Wednesday April 6 2005 1:01 am, Fergus Wilde wrote:

On Wednesday 06 April 2005 02:06, Donn Washburn wrote:

...

Sid Boyce wrote:

...

Mayank Jain wrote:

...

Hi all,

like mad. But if you've got a half-reasonable dollar / euro / sterling income, I think it would be a good move for the future of Linux we all hope to enjoy to actually spring for a set of original disks. You get a great deal for your buck, after all. Cheers Fergus

Well said Fergus. I have no constitutional objection to people eating. I'm retired, but I am able to budget some money for computers. First on my list is each new SUSE release. I've already pre-ordered 9.3 for shipment starting April 18. From SUSE's site. Rich -- Rich Matson Reno, Nv. USA

Mayank Jain wrote:

On Apr 6, 2005 5:53 AM, Sid Boyce wrote:

...

Mayank Jain wrote:

...

Hi all,

When will be SuSE 9.3 be out for public? any rough idea?

& what license does suse products follow? Is it legal to re-distribute copies of SuSE?

thnx.

My UK shipper says the end of the month, so hopefully we shall be seeing stuff on the list in a couple of weeks. Perfectly legal, you can buy one copy and deploy it, copy it, give it away, but not sell it.

& Sid, what about the updates. Will i be able to get them? Ofcourse, nothing stops me from downloading the new rpm's & installing them... but the official updates?

Can you point me to the SuSE license (any URL), i want to show this same thing (copy & distribute BUT not sell) to some other peple.

Thnx.

If you install SuSE, even via ftp, you can still update via YaST. On the CD's/DVD's there are two files COPYING (the GPL) and COPYRIGHT. You can repackage and sell for the cost of the media, additional software and time put in, see cheeplinux, though it looks like they've discontinued their SuSE CD's, they all sell for a fraction of the cost from the distro makers. The shareware on SuSE usually requires registration, the same packages can be downloaded from ftp sites. Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Keen licensed Private Pilot Retired IBM Mainframes and Sun Servers Tech Support Specialist Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux for all Computing Tasks