[opensuse] openSuSE to be sold to Vmware?
Hi Folks, The Register is reporting rumors that Vmware will be buying SuSE within the next few weeks: <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/15/novell_buyout_rumor/> It sounds like a good fit, with potential for SuSE to become better funded. This is timely news for me, since 11.3 finally got my blood boiling to the point I installed Ubuntu on a customer's laptop a few days ago. I tried 64-bit 11.3 on a Sony VAIO VGN-FW200 and had numerous issues. The display would freeze to the point it required power-off cycling, the suspend on lid close didn't work (producing heat all the time) and the tap feature on the mouse pad didn't work. An upgrade to KDE 4.5 mostly fixed the display freezing (still the occasional hang), but I was only able to get 50-fps (glxgears) on the Intel video chipset. The video driver installed was a "legacy" Intel thing for which I couldn't find a better fit. Bah! On went Kubunto as slick as snails through a goose. EVERYTHING worked! I was even able to automatically install the Flash plugin in Firefox when prompted! Glxgears reported 500-fps. I then tried Kubunto which wasn't quite as seamless as the Gnome. I think I'll put Gnome back on, the user isn't very sophisticated. This is very disappointing. I've been using SuSE since 5.2 and I've recommended it to many people because of the ease and reliability of installation. Now it's obvious that things have slipped. Maybe Vmware can pump some $$$ back into the basics? Will I still use openSuSE? Yes, for me. But I can't honestly say the same thing for my customers any more. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 05:20, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
The Register is reporting rumors that Vmware will be buying SuSE within the next few weeks:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/15/novell_buyout_rumor/>
Not just The Register... the rumors are popping up everywhere... Even Brockmeier is commenting about it: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/66307 C -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 07:17 +0200, C wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 05:20, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
The Register is reporting rumors that Vmware will be buying SuSE within the next few weeks:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/15/novell_buyout_rumor/>
Not just The Register... the rumors are popping up everywhere... Even Brockmeier is commenting about it: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/66307
I really likes the comment (a joke I assume) that SCO should buy openSUSE. Not that they are floating in bucks. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 07:41:40 Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 07:17 +0200, C wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 05:20, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
The Register is reporting rumors that Vmware will be buying SuSE within the next few weeks:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/15/novell_buyout_rumor/>
Not just The Register... the rumors are popping up everywhere... Even Brockmeier is commenting about it: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/66307
I really likes the comment (a joke I assume) that SCO should buy openSUSE. Not that they are floating in bucks.
Hummmm may well be a good job i have started getting back into slackware in that case Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.34.4-0.1-desktop KDE Development Platform: 4.4.4 (KDE 4.4.4) "release 2" 07:47 up 16:46, 2 users, load average: 0.07, 0.08, 0.08 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 07:48:27AM +0100, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 07:41:40 Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 07:17 +0200, C wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 05:20, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
The Register is reporting rumors that Vmware will be buying SuSE within the next few weeks:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/15/novell_buyout_rumor/>
Not just The Register... the rumors are popping up everywhere... Even Brockmeier is commenting about it: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/66307
I really likes the comment (a joke I assume) that SCO should buy openSUSE. Not that they are floating in bucks.
Hummmm may well be a good job i have started getting back into slackware in that case
Sheesh. SCO has perhaps enough money left to buy a stamp for a postcard, but not the 500 Million (or likely more) US$ for the Linux business parts of Novell. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 02:59, Marcus Meissner <meissner@suse.de> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 07:48:27AM +0100, Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Thursday 16 Sep 2010 07:41:40 Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
I really likes the comment (a joke I assume) that SCO should buy openSUSE. Not that they are floating in bucks.
Hummmm may well be a good job i have started getting back into slackware in that case
Sheesh. SCO has perhaps enough money left to buy a stamp for a postcard, but not the 500 Million (or likely more) US$ for the Linux business parts of Novell.
But thankfully they couldn't even afford the UNIX copyrights when they had money. Now they can't even afford notebooks. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:17 AM, Andrew Joakimsen <joakimsen@gmail.com> wrote:
But thankfully they couldn't even afford the UNIX copyrights when they had money. Now they can't even afford notebooks.
Still. I'd rather have someone like IBM buy it than Vmware. IBM has a vested interest in SUSE. They kicked in a large chunk of change when Novell bought SUSE in the first place to assure access for some of their smaller hardware. I'm not sure why VMware would want to won any distro. They have spent years being Distro agnostic, and even OS agnostic. Would the relationship of having OpenSuse be a testing community for SLES/SLED continue? -- ----------JSA--------- Someone stole my tag line, so now I have this rental. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 01:49 -0700, John Andersen wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:17 AM, Andrew Joakimsen <joakimsen@gmail.com> wrote:
But thankfully they couldn't even afford the UNIX copyrights when they had money. Now they can't even afford notebooks.
Still. I'd rather have someone like IBM buy it than Vmware. IBM has a vested interest in SUSE. They kicked in a large chunk of change when Novell bought SUSE in the first place to assure access for some of their smaller hardware.
I'm not sure why VMware would want to won any distro. They have spent years being Distro agnostic, and even OS agnostic.
What about VM-Ware as the OS, and the apps just run on top of it? I saw a link a bit ago about how VM-Ware could be the death of Windows: http://ct.zdnet.com/clicks?t=580520835-f09aff1f3240c763b781087d83996fa3-bf&brand=ZDNET&s=5 "It could not have been easy for former Microsoft exec Paul Maritz to pronounce the death of the operating system today."
Would the relationship of having OpenSuse be a testing community for SLES/SLED continue?
Would it be needed? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
2010/9/16 John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com>:
Still. I'd rather have someone like IBM buy it than Vmware. IBM has a vested interest in SUSE. They kicked in a large chunk of change when Novell bought SUSE in the first place to assure access for some of their smaller hardware.
That would have been really nice back then..... IBM was really into SuSE Linux, now that Novell owns it, I see almost no interest... Also RHEL is pushed on they highend hardware, where SLES had exclusivity years ago... Regards, -- Ciro Iriarte http://cyruspy.wordpress.com -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Marcus Meissner wrote:
Sheesh. SCO has perhaps enough money left to buy a stamp for a postcard, but not the 500 Million (or likely more) US$ for the Linux business parts of Novell.
But Novell *MUST* have included it as part of the Unix deal, as they need it to sue Linux users. ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 08:41, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 07:17 +0200, C wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 05:20, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
The Register is reporting rumors that Vmware will be buying SuSE within the next few weeks:
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/15/novell_buyout_rumor/>
Not just The Register... the rumors are popping up everywhere... Even Brockmeier is commenting about it: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/66307
I really likes the comment (a joke I assume) that SCO should buy openSUSE. Not that they are floating in bucks.
The one remote possibility that's being bantered around that really frightens me... Oracle. Dear $deity, please not Oracle! It could be interesting to have a new company at the helm. Some fresh ideas maybe? I hope whoever picks it up understands open source, the communities, and as well... how to make money out of the open source projects without damaging the core product. As much as we like to grumble about Novell, they've done a reasonably good job of pushing openSUSE along and supporting it. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 20:20 -0700, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
It sounds like a good fit, with potential for SuSE to become better funded. This is timely news for me, since 11.3 finally got my blood boiling to the point I installed Ubuntu on a customer's laptop a few days ago. I tried 64-bit 11.3 on a Sony VAIO VGN-FW200 and had numerous issues.
Installed 11.3 64-bit on my HP DV-3085DX and it has been working *perfectly*. Not a single crash, for months. Even hiberation / resume works *perfectly*. openSUSE 11.3 is a *WONDERFUL* product. A solid and productive desktop experience.
This is very disappointing. I've been using SuSE since 5.2 and I've recommended it to many people because of the ease and reliability of installation. Now it's obvious that things have slipped.
Working great here! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 16 September 2010, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
I tried 64-bit 11.3 on a Sony VAIO VGN-FW200 and had numerous issues.
Installed 11.3 64-bit on my HP DV-3085DX and it has been working *perfectly*. Not a single crash, for months. Even hiberation / resume works *perfectly*.
openSUSE 11.3 is a *WONDERFUL* product. A solid and productive desktop experience.
This is very disappointing. I've been using SuSE since 5.2 and I've recommended it to many people because of the ease and reliability of installation. Now it's obvious that things have slipped.
Working great here!
Nothing new. Some distro work better on some laptops. SuSE has always worked better on Thinkpads, Mandrake did better on Toshibas (at the time). That's why I would never say that Distro X or Y is "a wonderful" or "an awful" product without adding "for me" :) Thierry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 16:12 +0200, Thierry de Coulon wrote:
I tried 64-bit 11.3 on a Sony VAIO VGN-FW200 and had numerous issues. Installed 11.3 64-bit on my HP DV-3085DX and it has been working *perfectly*. Not a single crash, for months. Even hiberation / resume works *perfectly*. openSUSE 11.3 is a *WONDERFUL* product. A solid and productive desktop experience. This is very disappointing. I've been using SuSE since 5.2 and I've recommended it to many people because of the ease and reliability of installation. Now it's obvious that things have slipped. Working great here! Nothing new. Some distro work better on some laptops. SuSE has always worked better on Thinkpads, Mandrake did better on Toshibas (at the time). That's why I would never say that Distro X or Y is "a wonderful" or "an awful"
On Thursday 16 September 2010, Adam Tauno Williams wrote: product without adding "for me" :)
Funny; rarely see this kind of reply to a *negative* comment. But post a positive comment and the list will find some way to disregard it. Every time someone says opensuse-is-awful I'm going to continue to counter that opensuse-is-great. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 16 September 2010, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Funny; rarely see this kind of reply to a *negative* comment. But post a positive comment and the list will find some way to disregard it.
Every time someone says opensuse-is-awful I'm going to continue to counter that opensuse-is-great.
There was NO disregard in my comment, and I don't backup the negative comment by Lew Wolfgang. What's more as he does not say what didn't work he's obviously not asking for help but just getting rid of his anger. openSuSE *is* great, but it *may* make the blood of someone boil because the great system does not work well on every computer. I run SuSE on my laptops because it IS great and it DOES work - better than others on these machines. I run another distribution on my workstation, because that distribution does work *better* than SuSE on that particular machine. That's all. My point was that it's wrong to go around shouting that SuSE is bad, just because one's own experience was bad on one machine. But just saying that SuSE is great because it works for ME does not make it great for others... some may really have problems with it. So anyway the good in your counterstrike is to stress that openSuSE does work (for most users I suppose). Thierry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 09/16/2010 07:56 AM, Thierry de Coulon wrote:
On Thursday 16 September 2010, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Funny; rarely see this kind of reply to a *negative* comment. But post a positive comment and the list will find some way to disregard it.
Every time someone says opensuse-is-awful I'm going to continue to counter that opensuse-is-great.
There was NO disregard in my comment, and I don't backup the negative comment by Lew Wolfgang. What's more as he does not say what didn't work he's obviously not asking for help but just getting rid of his anger.
Yes, I admit to my anger. I think I did mention what wasn't working on this particular laptop, I'll mention them again. 1. The "tap to select" function on the mouse scratch pad didn't work 2. The screen would completely freeze intermittently before upgrade to KDE 4.5. 3. Intermittent shorter freezes after upgrading to KDE 4.5. (dbus issue?) 4. Suspend on lid-close didn't work. 5. Old "legacy" Intel video driver was installed, couldn't find newer version. (50-fps)
openSuSE *is* great, but it *may* make the blood of someone boil because the great system does not work well on every computer. I run SuSE on my laptops because it IS great and it DOES work - better than others on these machines. I run another distribution on my workstation, because that distribution does work *better* than SuSE on that particular machine. That's all.
I agree.
My point was that it's wrong to go around shouting that SuSE is bad, just because one's own experience was bad on one machine. But just saying that SuSE is great because it works for ME does not make it great for others... some may really have problems with it.
I was also frustrated by reading that unixheads was shutting down, which has the effect of leaving only two openSuSE mirrors in the US. Both of those mirrors have reputations for poor bandwidth, leading to a discussion of "why doesn't Novell just spend a few hundred $ per month to guarantee a good mirror for the US"? The fit-and-finish of Ubunto is just noticeably better than openSuSE at this point in time. Is this a reflection of Canonical spending more money on their flagship than Novell is spending on their's?
So anyway the good in your counterstrike is to stress that openSuSE does work (for most users I suppose).
I suppose and hope too. Regards, Lew -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/16/2010 11:32 AM, Lew Wolfgang wrote:
I was also frustrated by reading that unixheads was shutting down, which has the effect of leaving only two openSuSE mirrors in the US. Both of those mirrors have reputations for poor bandwidth, leading to a discussion of "why doesn't Novell just spend a few hundred $ per month to guarantee a good mirror for the US"? The fit-and-finish of Ubunto is just noticeably better than openSuSE at this point in time. Is this a reflection of Canonical spending more money on their flagship than Novell is spending on their's?
So anyway the good in your counterstrike is to stress that openSuSE does work (for most users I suppose).
I suppose and hope too.
Regards, Lew
There may be legal reasons why US mirrors are less desirable than other places. But I never choose a US mirror anyway. I always choose one halfway around the world. (Germany often). Reason: The users there are asleep when I want updates, and the mirror is almost always less busy. Oh, and sleep on lid close has never been reliable on my Dell till KDE 4.5. Who ever finally fixed that: Thank you. -- _____________________________________ At one time I had a Real Sig. Its been downsized. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 14:32, Lew Wolfgang <wolfgang@sweet-haven.com> wrote:
My point was that it's wrong to go around shouting that SuSE is bad, just because one's own experience was bad on one machine. But just saying that SuSE is great because it works for ME does not make it great for others... some may really have problems with it.
I was also frustrated by reading that unixheads was shutting down, which has the effect of leaving only two openSuSE mirrors in the US. Both of those mirrors have reputations for poor bandwidth, leading to a discussion of "why doesn't Novell just spend a few hundred $ per month to guarantee a good mirror for the US"? The fit-and-finish of Ubunto is just noticeably better than openSuSE at this point in time. Is this a reflection of Canonical spending more money on their flagship than Novell is spending on their's?
They do on widehat.opensuse.org, but not by default you need to go in and edit your repos. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I have to say I'm a bit nervous if SUSE is to be sold to VMware. Do VMware understand or "get" Open Source?
From a strategic view it makes sense why VMware would want a Linux distribution.
On 17 September 2010 02:59, Andrew Joakimsen <joakimsen@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 14:32, Lew Wolfgang <wolfgang@sweet-haven.com> wrote:
My point was that it's wrong to go around shouting that SuSE is bad, just because one's own experience was bad on one machine. But just saying that SuSE is great because it works for ME does not make it great for others... some may really have problems with it.
I was also frustrated by reading that unixheads was shutting down, which has the effect of leaving only two openSuSE mirrors in the US. Both of those mirrors have reputations for poor bandwidth, leading to a discussion of "why doesn't Novell just spend a few hundred $ per month to guarantee a good mirror for the US"? The fit-and-finish of Ubunto is just noticeably better than openSuSE at this point in time. Is this a reflection of Canonical spending more money on their flagship than Novell is spending on their's?
They do on widehat.opensuse.org, but not by default you need to go in and edit your repos. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 09:59:40 -0400, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 14:32, Lew Wolfgang <wolfgang@sweet-haven.com> wrote:
My point was that it's wrong to go around shouting that SuSE is bad, just because one's own experience was bad on one machine. But just saying that SuSE is great because it works for ME does not make it great for others... some may really have problems with it.
I was also frustrated by reading that unixheads was shutting down, which has the effect of leaving only two openSuSE mirrors in the US. Both of those mirrors have reputations for poor bandwidth, leading to a discussion of "why doesn't Novell just spend a few hundred $ per month to guarantee a good mirror for the US"? The fit-and-finish of Ubunto is just noticeably better than openSuSE at this point in time. Is this a reflection of Canonical spending more money on their flagship than Novell is spending on their's?
They do on widehat.opensuse.org, but [...]
No, Novell doesn't spend money on widehat.opensuse.org. That host is generously donated by IP Exchange: http://www.ip-exchange.de/ IP Exchange also donates bandwidth that is very important to openSUSE. Good hoster in Germany, which I can heartly recommend, after working with them for years.
not by default you need to go in and edit your repos.
Not true, download.opensuse.org sends downloads to that host just like to the other mirrors. If you are in the US, you'll be sent to an US mirror though, if possible, because bandwidth of widehat.o.o is limited, and Germany is far away. Peter
On 17/09/2010 19:04, Peter Pöml wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 09:59:40 -0400, Andrew Joakimsen wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 14:32, Lew Wolfgang<wolfgang@sweet-haven.com> wrote:
My point was that it's wrong to go around shouting that SuSE is bad, just because one's own experience was bad on one machine. But just saying that SuSE is great because it works for ME does not make it great for others... some may really have problems with it.
I was also frustrated by reading that unixheads was shutting down, which has the effect of leaving only two openSuSE mirrors in the US. Both of those mirrors have reputations for poor bandwidth, leading to a discussion of "why doesn't Novell just spend a few hundred $ per month to guarantee a good mirror for the US"? The fit-and-finish of Ubunto is just noticeably better than openSuSE at this point in time. Is this a reflection of Canonical spending more money on their flagship than Novell is spending on their's?
They do on widehat.opensuse.org, but [...]
No, Novell doesn't spend money on widehat.opensuse.org. That host is generously donated by IP Exchange: http://www.ip-exchange.de/ IP Exchange also donates bandwidth that is very important to openSUSE.
Good hoster in Germany, which I can heartly recommend, after working with them for years.
not by default you need to go in and edit your repos.
Not true, download.opensuse.org sends downloads to that host just like to the other mirrors.
If you are in the US, you'll be sent to an US mirror though, if possible, because bandwidth of widehat.o.o is limited, and Germany is far away.
Peter
If you were using Ubuntu you could test to see which mirror is the best for you; you could then select it for the max. performance - or you could choose a mirror of your personal choice. The default site for s/ware is, of course, the home server - which can be rather overcrowded and slow at certain times :-) . BC -- I didn't know it was impossible when I did it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Adam Tauno Williams
Installed 11.3 64-bit on my HP DV-3085DX and it has been working *perfectly*. Not a single crash, for months. Even hiberation / resume works *perfectly*. openSUSE 11.3 is a *WONDERFUL* product. A solid and productive desktop experience. Working great here!
Glad to hear you aren't having problems. So, does that mean that we give up on trying to fix issues that others are having that aren't affecting you? Most of Linux is word of mouth and a bad review can do more damage than a hundred comments about how great it is. Has anyone bothered to update the hardware compatibility list for 11.3?(I haven't because I have only installed it on 1 machine & am still testing it) Having these types of "good it works" and "no I have problems" could help others out who are looking to install it. I don't see either laptop, yours or the OP, listed. That would be a big help. Also, how come the link to that hardware compatibility page isn't on the main opensuse page? That would be the best place for it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 15:03 -0400, Larry Stotler wrote:
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Adam Tauno Williams
Installed 11.3 64-bit on my HP DV-3085DX and it has been working *perfectly*. Not a single crash, for months. Even hiberation / resume works *perfectly*. openSUSE 11.3 is a *WONDERFUL* product. A solid and productive desktop experience. Working great here! Glad to hear you aren't having problems. So, does that mean that we give up on trying to fix issues that others are having that aren't affecting you?
Yep. Feel free.
Most of Linux is word of mouth and a bad review can do more damage than a hundred comments about how great it is.
And... that is just basic human behavior. However, it does nothing to negate the value of a positive comment.
Has anyone bothered to update the hardware compatibility list for 11.3?(I haven't because I have only installed it on 1 machine & am still testing it) Having these types of "good it works" and "no I have problems" could help others out who are looking to install it.
Nope, and I don't intend to. All the HCLs, and there are so bloody many, are pretty useless - mostly because there are so many. You can research this laptop easily @ <http://www.bing.com/search?q=opensuse+DV7-3085DX&form=OSDSRC> which will show the post I made to this list <http://lists4.suse.de/opensuse/2010-06/msg00750.html> I've been using Linux on a laptop for ~8 years. Narrow down the models you are interested in and search. That is the only reliable way to discover any information. Hopefully, someday, the community will be able to get together and make a shared HCL that is actually useful (and maintainable). Generally we need more things like <http://unix.stackexchange.com/> and less opensuse-, ubuntu-, fedora-, etc.. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 16 September 2010 15:05:40 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Generally we need more things like <http://unix.stackexchange.com/> and less opensuse-, ubuntu-, fedora-, etc..
+1 Unix was marginalized because of too many *nixes at some point in time. I don't see that same conditions in Linux can produce different result. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. said the following on 09/16/2010 07:13 PM:
On Thursday 16 September 2010 15:05:40 Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Generally we need more things like <http://unix.stackexchange.com/> and less opensuse-, ubuntu-, fedora-, etc..
+1
Unix was marginalized because of too many *nixes at some point in time. I don't see that same conditions in Linux can produce different result.
I disagree. So many flavours of Linux are addressing specific markets and market verticals, which was not the case in the 80s when everyone who could get hold of a 16-bit microprocessor was trying to do their variant of UNIX. Now most of the variants of Linux you don't even see "as Linux", in your TV, your GPS, you cell phone, your automobile, that billboard beside the highway, that store directory and wedding gift registry, that thing in your basement that lets you use your TV cable service for a phone ... and much more. Will the redhat vs suse vs ubuntu vs mandriva see a shake-out? Possibly. But I don't see a shake-out between AIX and HP/U (though DG/UX isn't around but that's a different story). Personally I see redhat and suse positioning themselves with some but far from total overlap and in a market that is slightly different from that ubuntu is trying to fill. I also see them trying to do that in different ways. So long as there is a big enough and growing market I don't see them trying to take each other down. As for other distributions such as Mint, PCLinuxOS, MEPIS, and others you can see at http://www.livecdlist.com/, they fall into a few categories: * Specialist: Firewall, security, diagnostics * Targeted; Education, Entertainment * Hobby: Many desktop variants The rise of national radio and TV did not cause radio hams to become extinct. A shakedown in the "market" will not stop enthusiast producing variants of Linux "for fun and profit". -- Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company. --George Washington -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Or possible not quite what it might seem: http://gigaom.com/2010/09/16/novells-patents-are-complicating-its-sale/ -- If you need to be told what your values are the implication is that you don't hold them right now. If you hold your values strongly enough, you don't need to print them out and stick them on a wall. If everyone shares them, they don't need to read them off a wall, either. -- Marcus J. Ranum -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 08:31 -0400, Anton Aylward wrote:
Or possible not quite what it might seem: http://gigaom.com/2010/09/16/novells-patents-are-complicating-its-sale/ If you need to be told what your values are the implication is that you don't hold them right now.
Novell is a corporation, not a person. "a desperate deal with Microsoft that cut SUSE’s appeal" was a deal that made sense and was quite successful. As to who buys whom and why? All this speculation is silly. Corporate acquisitions are extremely complicated and made for equally complicated, and often opaque [from the outside], reasons. Intellectual property always plays a roll. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
fr., 17.09.2010 kl. 08.31 -0400, skrev Anton Aylward:
Or possible not quite what it might seem:
http://gigaom.com/2010/09/16/novells-patents-are-complicating-its-sale/
--
You did see who the article author is? Matt Asay http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/overview/management-team He did however disclose this in the article, so fair is fair. // Bjørn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Will the redhat vs suse vs ubuntu vs mandriva see a shake-out? Possibly. But I don't see a shake-out between AIX and HP/U (though DG/UX isn't around but that's a different story).
A shake-out that resulted in a single package manager format and file location/library/naming standards that EVERYONE adhered to would be nice. I hate the mess we have now with multiple package managers, and each distro putting core files in its own seemingly random locations, and giving core library files different names (even though they are the same). C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 17 September 2010 17:51:00 C wrote:
Will the redhat vs suse vs ubuntu vs mandriva see a shake-out? Possibly. But I don't see a shake-out between AIX and HP/U (though DG/UX isn't around but that's a different story).
A shake-out that resulted in a single package manager format and file location/library/naming standards that EVERYONE adhered to would be nice. I hate the mess we have now with multiple package managers, and each distro putting core files in its own seemingly random locations, and giving core library files different names (even though they are the same).
There is no such great difference between RPM distros. Only Debian is standing apart. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
C said the following on 09/17/2010 09:51 AM:
Will the redhat vs suse vs ubuntu vs mandriva see a shake-out? Possibly. But I don't see a shake-out between AIX and HP/U (though DG/UX isn't around but that's a different story).
A shake-out that resulted in a single package manager format and file location/library/naming standards that EVERYONE adhered to would be nice. I hate the mess we have now with multiple package managers, and each distro putting core files in its own seemingly random locations, and giving core library files different names (even though they are the same).
You mean like Microsoft? OK, lets limit to to an architecture; IBM may have a great scheme but AIX isn't the same platform as my Android phone isn't the same platform as my Linux-on-the-MAC and many such variations. Compared to what we had back in the days when SCO was the dominant form of small system/SMB *NIX, we're doing pretty good. Most intel-based Linux desktop and server systems can handle RPMs (you don't want to think about the version that run on embedded applications!). The "package mangers" are just the application layer, the UI, and for many sites its automated so there is no UI :-) Lets see. What car do you drive? Is the gear shift on the floor or the column? Is the window raised and lowered by a handle or an electric motor? If the latter, is the switch on the door or the centre console? And what about the wheels? Do they have 4, 5 or 6 lugs? Of course the wrong combination means that you will be unable to drive that car or unable to maintain it. -- "You certainly do things thoroughly, Mr. Holmes." "I should hardly be what I am if I did not." -- Inspector Bardle and Sherlock Holmes, in "The Adventure of the Lion's Mane" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 16:10, Anton Aylward wrote:
A shake-out that resulted in a single package manager format and file location/library/naming standards that EVERYONE adhered to would be nice. I hate the mess we have now with multiple package managers, and each distro putting core files in its own seemingly random locations, and giving core library files different names (even though they are the same).
You mean like Microsoft?
Heck no, there's so little standardization there on that single OS it's laughable. dlls scattered all over the place, config files anywhere and everywhere, installers are MSI, EXE and I dunno.. whatever else they like to use. [snip]
Compared to what we had back in the days when SCO was the dominant form of small system/SMB *NIX, we're doing pretty good. Most intel-based Linux desktop and server systems can handle RPMs (you don't want to think about the version that run on embedded applications!).
But.. you can only sometimes take an RPM that is say.. built for RedHat and install it on openSUSE because.. even between RPM based distros we can't get the file naming sorted out. RH calls the lib XYZ.so.1 and openSUSE calls it XYZ-1.so.1 even though they are identical (or seem to be). Then you throw in DEBs and trying to alien back and forth so you don't break your respective package database... and then --scripts is a recipe for disaster some times... Then you include PGK from Solaris, whatever Gentoo likes to call the source they emerge... and... and.. Then you have poor vendor X who is willing to consider making a Linux port of their WonderApp 1.0.... until they look at the clusterhump that is package managers, file locations, and file names... and they end up saying screw it... then IF we're lucky, they build a DEB specifically for Ubuntu... that won't even alien to RPM for openSUSE (eg... Cedega, the first releases of Google Voice etc etc etc). There have been attempts at standardizing, but.. everyone just ignored it and went on their merry way. Do things work as they are... sure, we're humming along here... but... in terms of 3rd party application vendors.... they don't wanna step into the maelstrom. If things were just a bit more standardised... evn down to say.. DEB and RPM... where an RPM could be installed and work on any RPM based distro (assuming the deps are met of course)... which isn't the case right now.
Lets see. What car do you drive?
I don't... I walk now. After the dealer wanted 11,000€ for a rebuilt engine for my Porsche, I sold it and I've been using my feet and public transit ever since :-) C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 17 September 2010 09:28:57 C wrote:
There have been attempts at standardizing, but.. everyone just ignored it and went on their merry way.
Then, even if package managers would be standardized, who will make standard kernel, libc, etc. Package will refuse to install anyway. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 9/17/2010 4:26 PM, Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 17 September 2010 09:28:57 C wrote:
There have been attempts at standardizing, but.. everyone just ignored it and went on their merry way.
Then, even if package managers would be standardized, who will make standard kernel, libc, etc. Package will refuse to install anyway.
Having a FEW competing package managers adds robustness to the community. I have no problem with two or even three methods. Competing technology brings out the best after a while. That very fact that this issue is not yet settled means there is still debate about what method is best. KDE/Gnome/[5 or 8 others] = same debate. I think the bigger issue is the location of things varying for no good reason other than one developer decides its just easier to put things in a different place. That has been toned down in recent years, but it is still far too common. Another issue is the Gui-ification of all controls and settings without documenting WHICH files are changed by these methods. Bad enough when the underlying system is standardized. A nightmare when combined with nonstandard locations or fancy run-time tokenization of linux standard scripts/settings. (a la etc/sysconfig and its absurd level of indirection). -- _____________________________________ At one time I had a Real Sig. Its been downsized. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
El 17/09/10 10:28, C escribió:
There have been attempts at standardizing, but.. everyone just ignored it and went on their merry way.
Do you mean the LSB ? ( aka. Linux Super Bull**) :-) While there are attempts from corporations to still beat this dead horse, it is doomed to fail why ? - It attempts to define an ABI instead of a API, in this always changing enviroment, this sole idea reveals it was thought by high management positions or people that has no clue whatsoever how real applications work. - It doesn't matter to opensource, only to proprietary software. - The tooling and documentation behind the LSB is embarrasing, it has ridiculous CS 101 bugs. [1] - aparrently, decisions are made for purely political reasons, last example is it was decided that mozilla-nss should be used instead of openSSL, this does not match the real world, there are only 132 packages using mozilla-nss and 1902 packages using openSSL in a complete distribution. reading the rationale, it says it was adopted because it has FIPS compliance certification, commit to ABI stability (read, the same old, the same old cruft..) and a friendlier license.. (!?) I hope you understand now why it is ignored, it is "Design by committee". Cheers. [1] just a little example https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file?file=lsb-misctest-bof-security_101.patch&package=lsb-misctest&project=openSUSE:Factory:Contrib&srcmd5=c1b96efbd7dbfa68e6dc6cdbf4dfafa6 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 02:17, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
El 17/09/10 10:28, C escribió:
There have been attempts at standardizing, but.. everyone just ignored it and went on their merry way.
Do you mean the LSB ?
[snip]
I hope you understand now why it is ignored, it is "Design by committee".
Oh, I understand why it failed and everyone just went their own way. I'm just frustrated by the knock on effect of there being no real standardization. Anyway, this has gone WAY beyond the original thread, and nothing is to be gained by me grumping about a lack of consistency :-) so... should we start a pool and take bets on who the real buyer is? Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols claims to be in the know on this... http://blogs.computerworld.com/16978/vmware_is_buying_novell C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 15:51 +0200, C wrote:
Will the redhat vs suse vs ubuntu vs mandriva see a shake-out? Possibly. But I don't see a shake-out between AIX and HP/U (though DG/UX isn't around but that's a different story).
A shake-out that resulted in a single package manager format and file location/library/naming standards that EVERYONE adhered to would be nice. I hate the mess we have now with multiple package managers, and each distro putting core files in its own seemingly random locations, and giving core library files different names (even though they are the same).
C.
+1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (21)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Andrew Joakimsen -
Anton Aylward -
Basil Chupin -
Bjørn Lie -
C -
Ciro Iriarte -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Ilya Chernykh -
James Knott -
John Andersen -
Larry Stotler -
Lester Wade -
Lew Wolfgang -
Marcus Meissner -
Mike McMullin -
Peter Nikolic -
Peter Pöml -
Rajko M. -
Roger Oberholtzer -
Thierry de Coulon