On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:00:40 +0100, MaD dUCK wrote:
| YaST - i won't even touch YaST2 here - is nice for the beginner and | the person who wants to use a functional system without worrying too | much. but YaST is a nightmare for the established linux expert (i am | blushing just a litte - but please don't consider me arrogant). it's | the windows syndrome - make administration easier at the cost of | complicating things and hiding important details.
I am an experienced Unix admin on various platforms and SuSE's YaST is one of the best configuration tools I have seen around. And this is because it keeps track of huge amounts of dependendies (with dependencies being the price to pay for using a distribution i.s.o compiling the stuff yourself) Don't want to trade it for RedHat's junk even if they threw money with it. Do whatever you want to do but I think you're insane.
-- Koos Pol
I think yast1 is an excellent tool. I think this discussion has been starting because I believe Suse will junk or at least mothball yast1 - since the commercial boys will be wanting Yast2 for the expo's... and Suse is not going to pay to maintain two complext installation products. But I am certain they will choose the one that barely works but looks nicer (yast2) instead of the one that does work pretty well but looks like a toad's back after a road-accident. Yast2 with suitably doctored demo's setup will probably look like it works properly.. It will be a massive job to substitute for yast1. But if someone wants to do it .. well.. let them.. lol. Cliff
---------------------------------------------------------------------- S.C. Pol T: +31 20 3116122 Systems Administrator F: +31 20 3116200 Compuware Europe B.V. E: koos_pol@nl.compuware.com Amsterdam PGP public key available
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Cliff Sarginson wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:00:40 +0100, MaD dUCK wrote:
| YaST - i won't even touch YaST2 here - is nice for the beginner and | the person who wants to use a functional system without worrying too | much. but YaST is a nightmare for the established linux expert (i am | blushing just a litte - but please don't consider me arrogant). it's | the windows syndrome - make administration easier at the cost of | complicating things and hiding important details.
I am an experienced Unix admin on various platforms and SuSE's YaST is one of the best configuration tools I have seen around. And this is because it keeps track of huge amounts of dependendies (with dependencies being the price to pay for using a distribution i.s.o compiling the stuff yourself) Don't want to trade it for RedHat's junk even if they threw money with it. Do whatever you want to do but I think you're insane.
I think yast1 is an excellent tool. I think this discussion has been starting because I believe Suse will junk or at least mothball yast1 - since the commercial boys will be wanting Yast2 for the expo's... and Suse is not going to pay to maintain two complext installation products. But I am certain they will choose the one that barely works but looks nicer (yast2) instead of the one that does work pretty well but looks like a toad's back after a road-accident. Yast2 with suitably doctored demo's setup will probably look like it works properly..
I believe the two separate YaST1 and YaST2 programs are just a temporary measure. I think the direction that SuSE is heading in is to modularise the various administration/package management tools within YaST to make it easier to update individual tools. Using this idea, they also make the frontend modular, with both a text and a (far more functional) graphical front end. Don't quote me on any of that though, Chris -- __ _ -o)/ / (_)__ __ ____ __ Chris Reeves /\\ /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / ICQ# 22219005 _\_v __/_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\
also sprach Chris Reeves (on Mon, 08 Jan 2001 04:12:53PM +0000):
I believe the two separate YaST1 and YaST2 programs are just a temporary measure. I think the direction that SuSE is heading in is to modularise the various administration/package management tools within YaST to make it easier to update individual tools. Using this idea, they also make the frontend modular, with both a text and a (far more functional) graphical front end.
c.f. linuxconf. martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo madduck@!#:1:s@\@@@.net -- "i believe that the moment is near when by a procedure of active paranoiac thought, it will be possible to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality." -- salvador dali
The answer to all this "pure Linux" theology is, of course, to roll your own. Pick up a kernel from kernel.org, the utils from the GNU site, and a dozen or so other utilities from various other sites. Then study perl or bash or python until you are an expert one of them (is bash powerful enough?) and write your config scripts, layout your own FS schema, etc... Should be fun, if you don't have to work to pay bills. JLK On Monday 08 January 2001 09:20, Cliff Sarginson wrote:
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:00:40 +0100, MaD dUCK wrote: | YaST - i won't even touch YaST2 here - is nice for the beginner | and the person who wants to use a functional system without | worrying too much. but YaST is a nightmare for the established | linux expert (i am blushing just a litte - but please don't | consider me arrogant). it's the windows syndrome - make | administration easier at the cost of complicating things and | hiding important details.
I am an experienced Unix admin on various platforms and SuSE's YaST is one of the best configuration tools I have seen around. And this is because it keeps track of huge amounts of dependendies (with dependencies being the price to pay for using a distribution i.s.o compiling the stuff yourself) Don't want to trade it for RedHat's junk even if they threw money with it. Do whatever you want to do but I think you're insane.
-- Koos Pol
I think yast1 is an excellent tool. I think this discussion has been starting because I believe Suse will junk or at least mothball yast1 - since the commercial boys will be wanting Yast2 for the expo's... and Suse is not going to pay to maintain two complext installation products. But I am certain they will choose the one that barely works but looks nicer (yast2) instead of the one that does work pretty well but looks like a toad's back after a road-accident. Yast2 with suitably doctored demo's setup will probably look like it works properly..
It will be a massive job to substitute for yast1. But if someone wants to do it .. well.. let them.. lol.
Cliff
----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- S.C. Pol T: +31 20 3116122 Systems Administrator F: +31 20 3116200 Compuware Europe B.V. E: koos_pol@nl.compuware.com Amsterdam PGP public key available
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-- Scientific theories, according to Sir Karl Popper, can be "falsified," or proven wrong, by experiment. Unscientific theories -Marxist dialectical history and Freudian psychology were Popper's favorites- are formed in such a way that they cannot be falsified by data.
also sprach Jerry Kreps (on Mon, 08 Jan 2001 04:37:58PM -0600):
The answer to all this "pure Linux" theology is, of course, to roll your own. Pick up a kernel from kernel.org, the utils from the GNU site, and a dozen or so other utilities from various other sites. Then study perl or bash or python until you are an expert one of them (is bash powerful enough?) and write your config scripts, layout your own FS schema, etc... Should be fun, if you don't have to work to pay bills.
sure, but there's got to be a distro out there which doesn't attempt to carry the user on hands but which gives you linux and a good selection of GNU while keeping their hands to standards and not screwing up in various places like SuSE or RedHat does. i like debian very much, just wondering if there are other ones out there worth a look at. i don't even know anymore how many linux distros there are... martin [greetings from the heart of the sun]# echo madduck@!#:1:s@\@@@.net -- nobody expects the spanish inquisition.
participants (4)
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Chris Reeves -
Cliff Sarginson -
Jerry Kreps -
MaD dUCK