Re: [opensuse] Re: Goodbye to suse and why not stay, The Linux Wall
----- Original Message ----
Randall R Schulz a écrit :
Once you buy software, you should not be expected to also buy training in the use of that software.
You can't expect to buy the software and the training at the price of the software alone. Particularly if the software is free! You don't expect free training on how to cook if you buy an oven, nor free training to be a photographer if you buy a camera. Why would anyone think that an expensive training package should be given to them when they buy a cheap product?
when you buy a car, you may have a licence, and this mean you may have learned to drive it
Of course. But once you've learned to drive, the knowledge you have is pretty much equally applicable to all cars out there. They're very complicated devices,
You're kidding right? The user interface of a car, in terms of the functions it provides, is trivial. Go faster, go slower, turn left, turn right. That's about it for the important things. The other stuff varies far more, and when renting you might find that you never work out where the overdrive is, you just manage without. By contrast, a computer, or even just the most simple piece of application software is far more complex. Furthermore, you might be interested to know that aircraft do _not_ have an equivalent degree of standardization. To the point that the FAA will require additional training and type ratings for many/most of the larger and more complex aircraft.
We should subject our information technology to at least this level of expectation.
I think it's right to push for, but it's utterly unrealistic to be surprised when those expectations aren't met. If you think otherwise, I suggest _you_ go write some perfect software and find out for yourself! This is one of the reasons I despise m$, of course. Given the amount the charge and the number of people giving them money, they should be able to do _much_ better. But they're a marketing company, not a technology company, so I can't be surprised really. I just choose to use open-source software and know that I got much more than I paid for (I paid nothing, or close to it, but got some stunningly high calibre software despite that. That's a reason for celebration, not complaint, in my book). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 26 December 2006 10:39, Simon Roberts wrote:
----- Original Message ----
Randall R Schulz a écrit :
Once you buy software, you should not be expected to also buy training in the use of that software.
You can't expect to buy the software and the training at the price of the software alone. Particularly if the software is free! You don't expect free training on how to cook if you buy an oven, nor free training to be a photographer if you buy a camera. Why would anyone think that an expensive training package should be given to them when they buy a cheap product?
Cooking and photography are arts. Using a computer should not be. You have to distinguish, say, writing a novel or a screen play from operating word-processing software. The former is an art and a skill. The latter should be easy and straightforward enough to disappear from the mind of the person using it. It should _not_ be a matter of the user meeting the software (or its creators) half way. The software should bridge the _whole_ gap to the user. Period.
when you buy a car, you may have a licence, and this mean you may have learned to drive it
Of course. But once you've learned to drive, the knowledge you have is pretty much equally applicable to all cars out there. They're very complicated devices,
You're kidding right?
Of course not. They're complicated under the hood and simple to use. That's the same goal software must meet. If Apple can make this happen, and they usually do, at least far better than other software vendors, then other developers can, too.
...
I'm really surprised so many people are arguing that software as we now experience it exhibits more than than an absolute minimum degree of quality: usability, reliability, stability, predictability, naturalness, etc. Randall Schulz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2006-12-26 at 13:25 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote: ...
Cooking and photography are arts. Using a computer should not be. You have to distinguish, say, writing a novel or a screen play from operating word-processing software. The former is an art and a skill. The latter should be easy and straightforward enough to disappear from the mind of the person using it.
The use of word-processing software should be easy enough for everybody being able to use it, and kids should learn that on school - preferably on different programs. At least to the point of being able to write a letter, if not an indexed multifile report. However, installing and configuring the operating system, and even the word processor, should be left to professionals. More or less, I mean, not literally. Ie, almost anybody can drive a car (including gearbox and clutch types ;-) ), but not everybody can change a wheel, and even less change the oil or plugs.
It should _not_ be a matter of the user meeting the software (or its creators) half way. The software should bridge the _whole_ gap to the user. Period.
Yes. But we should diferentiate using software and installing/configuring it. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFFkdEvtTMYHG2NR9URAt+uAJ9FDjRlD9AfHEIyk5nrgdyYvoapQACfXfA6 9tOudfa1HwvzQS0CyAqKjyE= =G4IT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 26 December 2006 15:25, Randall R Schulz wrote: ...
Cooking and photography are arts. Using a computer should not be.
Well, since when making scrambled eggs, or using point and click camera is art, and some people miss even that little skills. Computer is complex device that can be configured to assist in wide variety of tasks. For point and click photographers you have software that will sharpen, adjust color, light and remove red eyes with one click, but professionals don't use it. Artists have their idea about color, light, crop etc, and they need all different options to play with. How can one configure computer to be good for both? -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/MiniSUSE http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 26 December 2006 23:45, Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 26 December 2006 15:25, Randall R Schulz wrote:
...
Cooking and photography are arts. Using a computer should not be.
Well, since when making scrambled eggs, or using point and click camera is art, and some people miss even that little skills.
Computer is complex device that can be configured to assist in wide variety of tasks. For point and click photographers you have software that will sharpen, adjust color, light and remove red eyes with one click, but professionals don't use it. Artists have their idea about color, light, crop etc, and they need all different options to play with.
How can one configure computer to be good for both?
Like the old saying goes, A computer will only be as smart as its user. Afterall, a computer is stupid until someone tells it to do something. Most people should be embarrassed that they don't want to 'learn' enough to get a computer (and its software) setup and running the way they (each individual) wants it to run, but then, it seems 90% of humanity anymore only cares about what they want right then and there, not about 'learning' anything anymore. It's a shame really. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 27 December 2006 12:49, JB wrote:
90% of humanity anymore only cares about what they want right then and there, not about 'learning' anything anymore.
Once upon a time I liked to read history books and what I remember is that majority never liked to learn more than an absolute minimum to survive the day. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Cooking and photography are arts.
Really? That makes my wife and I both artists. We both cook and take pictures.
Using a computer should not be. You have to distinguish, say, writing a novel or a screen play from operating word-processing software. The former is an art and a skill. The latter should be easy and straightforward enough to disappear from the mind of the person using it.
And it is as long as you only desire to put words on a screen. Same as making a cup of tea or boiling an egg is easy - whereas cooking a three-course meal for 8-10 people requires a bit more skill.
It should _not_ be a matter of the user meeting the software (or its creators) half way. The software should bridge the _whole_ gap to the user. Period.
Why should using a computer be so easy when using other complicated tools can require significant training, even certification?
Of course not. They're complicated under the hood and simple to use. That's the same goal software must meet.
Only reasonable as long as the intended use of the computer is as simple as the intended use of a car (e.g. transport from A to B). /Per Jessen, Zürich -- http://www.spamchek.com/ - managed email security. Starting at SFr4/user/month. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Per Jessen <per@computer.org> [2006-12-27 17:27]:
Only reasonable as long as the intended use of the computer is as simple as the intended use of a car (e.g. transport from A to B).
Also, every people accept that you must go from time to time with your car to a garage. With computers, every DAU must should be able to repair it itself. ;) Regards, Bernhard
On Tuesday 26 December 2006 11:25, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Tuesday 26 December 2006 10:39, Simon Roberts wrote:
----- Original Message ----
Randall R Schulz a écrit :
Once you buy software, you should not be expected to also buy training in the use of that software.
Cooking and photography are arts. Using a computer should not be. You have to distinguish, say, writing a novel or a screen play from operating word-processing software. The former is an art and a skill. The latter should be easy and straightforward enough to disappear from the mind of the person using it.
It should _not_ be a matter of the user meeting the software (or its creators) half way. The software should bridge the _whole_ gap to the user. Period.
I agree.
I'm really surprised so many people are arguing that software as we now experience it exhibits more than than an absolute minimum degree of quality: usability, reliability, stability, predictability, naturalness, etc.
Randall Schulz
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (8)
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Bernhard Walle -
Carlos E. R. -
JB -
Per Jessen -
Rajko M. -
Randall R Schulz -
Simon Roberts -
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