I've been moving my "Mail" directory and the various RC files for kmail and the address book, including pop settings and filters, for many years and KDE 3 release now, without problem (usually just had to re-enter the passwords). I have not yet attempted this with KDE 4 and was anyway thinking it would be time to re-create the filter set new (I'm probably dragging old, useless filters...) I simply always have the habit to make sure I have my "old", working kmail either on the previous install or a notebook. Thierry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 20 April 2009 06:32:52 Rajko M. wrote:

On Sunday 19 April 2009 05:19:51 am Thierry de Coulon wrote:

...

I've been moving my "Mail" directory and the various RC files for kmail and the address book, including pop settings and filters, for many years and KDE 3 release now, without problem (usually just had to re-enter the passwords).

I have not yet attempted this with KDE 4 and was anyway thinking it would be time to re-create the filter set new (I'm probably dragging old, useless filters...)

I simply always have the habit to make sure I have my "old", working kmail either on the previous install or a notebook.

Thierry

I'm almost done, and it was just as I wrote in the previous email. I had to recreate accounts, and go trough the filters as many Move To folders were not recognized. Some half hour of work by now, and it is not much left.

There could be better way, but I didn't find it.

Can you send me some old and new kmailrcs showing what needed to be hand- hacked? I'm writing the automatic migrator for 11.2 and need to handle these. WIll

Can you send me some old and new kmailrcs showing what needed to be hand- hacked? I'm writing the automatic migrator for 11.2 and need to handle these. Thats great news. Its something that should be have been inbuilt from the beginning where a new version interrogates the existing rc files and imports all useable config data to the new one and ignores the old and no longer used config bits from the file. This would be a big advance in user friendliness. What would also be a good thing is a ".kontact" folder that has subfolder

snip links to all the elements of how kontact is configured so you can do an easy single line rsync backup of the .kontact folder instead multiple lines and it would also make upgrades to newer versions a lot simpler.

WIll

regards Ian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

At 13:22:38 on Sunday Sunday 19 April 2009, "Carlos E. R." wrote:

On Saturday, 2009-04-18 at 23:37 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

I am running openSuSE v10.3, and want to install v11.1 on a separate drive. I will want to carry over, among other things, the mail folders, the settings, and the filters from KMail to the new OS, but I do not find a way to export these things from the present mailer, nor for that matter, to import them. What am I overlooking?

In Linux, you can simply move over the mail folder from probably any mail client to any mail client -- if they are mbox type, and kmail by default uses a type of maildir. At least, you can move them from kmail to kmail.

In that case, presumably the mail folders would come across with the home directory, so there is no problem.

Configuration data (and addresses) is different.

Addresses are in KAddressbook, which DOES know how to export and import, so this too is no problem, unless KDE4's "paradigm shift" makes it impossible. Personally, I am very suspicious of the need or desirability of far-reaching paradigm shifts that make life difficult for users; it has a Redmond taste. But Redmond has the excuse that they have to coerce customers to replace apps yearly, else the Sultan of Brunei would again be the wealthiest man on the planet. I am not sure what the motivation would be for KDE.

Should be a request to devs, export/import all data.

One would think that would have been self-understood. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

At 23:16:50 on Sunday Sunday 19 April 2009, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Stan Goodman [04-19-09 08:46]:

...

At 13:22:38 on Sunday Sunday 19 April 2009, "Carlos E. R." wrote:

Addresses are in KAddressbook, which DOES know how to export and import, so this too is no problem, unless KDE4's "paradigm shift" makes it impossible. Personally, I am very suspicious of the need or desirability of far-reaching paradigm shifts that make life difficult for users; it has a Redmond taste. But Redmond has the excuse that they have to coerce customers to replace apps yearly, else the Sultan of Brunei would again be the wealthiest man on the planet. I am not sure what the motivation would be for KDE.

The "Redmond" comment here is just trash and a slam against the KDE programmers.

It was my opinion. I didn't realize that opinions are forbidden. It cannot possibly be ONLY my opinion.

...

...

Should be a request to devs, export/import all data.

One would think that would have been self-understood.

You must remember that everyone does not look upon the same-same-same. I use KDE but care less about anything KMail related (that comes to mind). I *still* prefer the command line and mutt.

Different strokes for different folks.

ie: "self-understanding" is relative!

It is not self-understood that there has to be a export - import mechanism for transition during the upgrade process? I hope it is.

Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

At 16:20:20 on Monday Monday 20 April 2009, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Sunday 19 April 2009 14:45:25 Stan Goodman wrote:

...

At 13:22:38 on Sunday Sunday 19 April 2009, "Carlos E. R."

wrote:

...

On Saturday, 2009-04-18 at 23:37 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

I am running openSuSE v10.3, and want to install v11.1 on a separate drive. I will want to carry over, among other things, the mail folders, the settings, and the filters from KMail to the new OS, but I do not find a way to export these things from the present mailer, nor for that matter, to import them. What am I overlooking?

In Linux, you can simply move over the mail folder from probably any mail client to any mail client -- if they are mbox type, and kmail by default uses a type of maildir. At least, you can move them from kmail to kmail.

In that case, presumably the mail folders would come across with the home directory, so there is no problem.

...

Configuration data (and addresses) is different.

No, it's not - copying all of .kde[4] on one computer to the other will import your mail and addresses, provided they are in the default locations under .kde[4].

...

Addresses are in KAddressbook, which DOES know how to export and import, so this too is no problem, unless KDE4's "paradigm shift" makes it impossible. Personally, I am very suspicious of the need or desirability of far-reaching paradigm shifts that make life difficult for users; it has a Redmond taste. But Redmond has the excuse that they have to coerce customers to replace apps yearly, else the Sultan of Brunei would again be the wealthiest man on the planet. I am not sure what the motivation would be for KDE.

...

Should be a request to devs, export/import all data.

One would think that would have been self-understood.

There was no significant[*] paradigm shift for kmail or kaddressbook's storage - no conspiracy, developer arrogance or eye candy fixation here - the difficulty arises because although upstream KDE automatically migrates all data to KDE3, we took the conservative route of keeping .kde for KDE3 and .kde4 for KDE4 so that users can freely switch between versions. We do not automatically migrate PIM data in 11.1 because we wanted to make sure the migration process was watertight for 11.2.

Will

Having installed v11.1 in apparently good order and installed KMail, I just tried to bring over the address data from Kaddressbook. This looked like a good starting place because the File menu indicates that there is a straightforward way to Export from the source OS (the v10.3 partitions). It turns out to be not quite so. I chose to export as Vcard v3; the utility informed me that, since I have several data resources (although I use only one), I must decide whether I want several files or only one. I interpreted this as meaning a separate file for each resource (although I think now that the utility has in mind something else entirely). and I chose separate files, because I did NOT want all the existing resources in a single file. After a few seconds, I was told that it would not be possible to perform the Export (without clue about why not). A glance in the folder that I had defined for a target showed there there is a separate file for each and every one of the hundreds of contacts that Kaddressbook knows. When I click on any one of these files, a dialog comes up asking me if I want the corresponding contact to be exported (I do, and that's why I started the export). When I answer in the affirmative, the dialog, the file, and the entire folder collapse -- which is just as well, because I am not about to go through that for each and every contact. My guess, though I can't be sure of anything, is that I should have chosen the "single file" option, because "separate files" seems to mean per contact. But what I have seen makes it seem that the Export option, and probably the Import option at the other end as well, may not be what I expected at all. My question, then, is: What have other people done to bring over their Kaddressbook information from v10.3 KDE3 to v11.1 KDE4?

[*] The default storage of mail distribution lists changed from a text file on disk to a synthetic contact in the addressbook. This allows the dist list to be stored on groupware servers and therefore behave the same way as regular contacts from a user's perspective. This is not handled automatically by upstream KDE. I'm working on automating this conversion for 11.2.

I am not at all sure what implications, if any, the paragraph above has for me as a single user in a non-enterprise environment, or for the upgrade transition in which I am engaged at the moment. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 20 April 2009 19:30:10 Will Stephenson wrote:

On Monday 20 April 2009 16:23:43 Stan Goodman wrote:

...

At 16:20:20 on Monday Monday 20 April 2009, Will Stephenson

wrote:

...

On Sunday 19 April 2009 14:45:25 Stan Goodman wrote:

...

At 13:22:38 on Sunday Sunday 19 April 2009, "Carlos E. R."

wrote:

...

On Saturday, 2009-04-18 at 23:37 +0300, Stan Goodman wrote:

...

I am running openSuSE v10.3, and want to install v11.1 on a separate drive. I will want to carry over, among other things, the mail folders, the settings, and the filters from KMail to the new OS, but I do not find a way to export these things from the present mailer, nor for that matter, to import them. What am I overlooking?

In Linux, you can simply move over the mail folder from probably any mail client to any mail client -- if they are mbox type, and kmail by default uses a type of maildir. At least, you can move them from kmail to kmail.

In that case, presumably the mail folders would come across with the home directory, so there is no problem.

...

Configuration data (and addresses) is different.

No, it's not - copying all of .kde[4] on one computer to the other will import your mail and addresses, provided they are in the default locations under .kde[4].

...

Addresses are in KAddressbook, which DOES know how to export and import, so this too is no problem, unless KDE4's "paradigm shift" makes it impossible. Personally, I am very suspicious of the need or desirability of far-reaching paradigm shifts that make life difficult for users; it has a Redmond taste. But Redmond has the excuse that they have to coerce customers to replace apps yearly, else the Sultan of Brunei would again be the wealthiest man on the planet. I am not sure what the motivation would be for KDE.

...

Should be a request to devs, export/import all data.

One would think that would have been self-understood.

There was no significant[*] paradigm shift for kmail or kaddressbook's storage - no conspiracy, developer arrogance or eye candy fixation here - the difficulty arises because although upstream KDE automatically migrates all data to KDE3, we took the conservative route of keeping .kde for KDE3 and .kde4 for KDE4 so that users can freely switch between versions. We do not automatically migrate PIM data in 11.1 because we wanted to make sure the migration process was watertight for 11.2.

Will

Having installed v11.1 in apparently good order and installed KMail, I just tried to bring over the address data from Kaddressbook. This looked like a good starting place because the File menu indicates that there is a straightforward way to Export from the source OS (the v10.3 partitions). It turns out to be not quite so.

I chose to export as Vcard v3; the utility informed me that, since I have several data resources (although I use only one), I must decide whether I want several files or only one. I interpreted this as meaning a separate file for each resource (although I think now that the utility has in mind something else entirely). and I chose separate files, because I did NOT want all the existing resources in a single file.

After a few seconds, I was told that it would not be possible to perform the Export (without clue about why not). A glance in the folder that I had defined for a target showed there there is a separate file for each and every one of the hundreds of contacts that Kaddressbook knows. When I click on any one of these files, a dialog comes up asking me if I want the corresponding contact to be exported (I do, and that's why I started the export). When I answer in the affirmative, the dialog, the file, and the entire folder collapse -- which is just as well, because I am not about to go through that for each and every contact.

My guess, though I can't be sure of anything, is that I should have chosen the "single file" option, because "separate files" seems to mean per contact. But what I have seen makes it seem that the Export option, and probably the Import option at the other end as well, may not be what I expected at all.

My question, then, is: What have other people done to bring over their Kaddressbook information from v10.3 KDE3 to v11.1 KDE4?

The Export function in KAddressbook is intended for exporting to other applications. I would just tar up my .kde dir from one installation and untar it in the other. This has the advantage that if you have multiple address books, the structure is always maintained. Exporting all contacts flattens them into one file.

If you then want to start using KDE 4, on first run, kde4-migrate will copy ~/.kde/share/apps/kabc/*.vcf to the equivalent location in ~/.kde4. This includes the 'standard addressbook'.

kde4-migrate? What's this? Is this a migration tool that will do what I have been seeking to do?

What we do not migrate automatically yet is the addressbook resource configuration. You can do this manually by copying

~/.kde/share/config/kresources to ~/.kde4/share/config

and you should be alright when you start KDE 4 kaddressbook.

NB this also copies calendar configuration. The calendar data is in ~/.kde/share/apps/korganizer/std.vcf, by default and can be copied to the equivalent location in .kde4.

There you have a load of my 11.2 TODO written up as manual migration instructions.

...

...

[*] The default storage of mail distribution lists changed from a text file on disk to a synthetic contact in the addressbook. This allows the dist list to be stored on groupware servers and therefore behave the same way as regular contacts from a user's perspective. This is not handled automatically by upstream KDE. I'm working on automating this conversion for 11.2.

I am not at all sure what implications, if any, the paragraph above has for me as a single user in a non-enterprise environment, or for the upgrade transition in which I am engaged at the moment.

If you're migrating KDE3 to KDE3, none, if you're migrating KDE3 to KDE4 currently you will have to recreate your distlists manually after the migration. These are stored in ~/.kde/share/apps/kabc/distlists.

Distribution lists?

HTH

I am not sure if it does. I think I must give serious consideration to staying with v10.3, which is working well (except for one problem which I had hoped to escape from by this upgrade), until the kde4 act gets pulled together. It may be too early for me to upgrade. I have also seen a lot of flakiness with the apps I have used, things crashing when I have not touched them, and leaving a message asking me to help by filing a bug report. One could argue about the timing of the release, but I won't. I'm grateful for your replies. But I have learned a bit about looking harder before leaping. Many thanks. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 21 April 2009 04:34:37 Carlos E. R. wrote:

Yes, it is. I insist. :-)

You can simply copy over a mail folder from, say, mozilla, to, say, kmail, any version, and it will work: it will read the email (both directions), because both programs understand the mbox format roughly the same.

However, configuration data from, say, mozilla, can not be moved directly, to, say, kmail.

Beg pardon, I misread you :) Will