[opensuse] Reply to G T Smith
On Tuesday August 25 2009 5:27:08 am G T Smith wrote:
On a more pertinent note, one also needs to consider those who voted with their feet...
Do they? You mentioned the importance of choice. Why should KDE people care about what non-KDE users think of KDE? Believe it or not, there are those who leave other desktops for KDE, as well. If you find that uncomfortable, go ahead and disbelieve it, but ask yourself if Gnome people should care what non-Gnome users think. There are still features I miss from OS/2's Workplace Shell, but I wouldn't go back to it. I actually made a feature request on this a long time ago, but I'm guessing it didn't interest too many people. I'd still like to see KDE eventually have work folders that act like mini-sessions that you could create by saving the current running programs as a folder and launch them by clicking the folder later, though.
The only thing I used on a regular basis that was QT based was konqueror as a file browser. (I am not impressed by dolphin). This was largely mitigated by mc and the discovery that Nautilus no longer did crazy things on my setups. The few other KDE things I use on occasional basis had GTK or X based alternative. KDE AFAIK is the only QT based desktop, and there are rather a lot of non-QT based desktops. So I realised that it it did not make much sense for me install KDE or the QT libraries or invest time in setting up KDE4 (YMMV).
You've actually inspired me to uninstall Gnome. The only GTK apps I use are Firefox, Openoffice (of which I will be using the QT version if that's ever finished) and GIMP, and with the exception of GIMP, these thankfully don't *look* like GTK apps. I've had Gnome on my machine forever and it's kind of a waste of drive space.
PS There is now a further factor to consider. When Nokia acquired Trolltech hence QT, it was not to get a foothold in the PC based Open Source market place (it was more likely part of a strategic response to the potential threat posed by android, and the need to update the Symbian OS GUI). Nokia are largely indifferent to Open Source based development and its community, (and can afford to be as Open Source based development in of handset applications is marginal). In some ways Nokia can make M$ seem positively cuddly...., and Nokias relative silence about the future of QT outside of their core market is probably more of a cause of concern than if they had said anything.
This point is more or less moot. The open source community has a fork of QT that will be available forever. I actually hope that Nokia changes the policy on the commercial QT, but it's actually not in their interests as a separate QT would be major competition and developers would be able to write commercial applications using the free QT without paying a fee to Nokia/Trolltech. Keeping a unified QT means that free and commercial QT applications remain compatible and the commercial version remains relevant. Nokia's kind of stuck on this one. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 August 2009 18:58:33 Constantinos Galilei wrote:
This point is more or less moot. The open source community has a fork of QT that will be available forever. I actually hope that Nokia changes the policy on the commercial QT, but it's actually not in their interests as a separate QT would be major competition and developers would be able to write commercial applications using the free QT without paying a fee to Nokia/Trolltech. Keeping a unified QT means that free and commercial QT applications remain compatible and the commercial version remains relevant. Nokia's kind of stuck on this one.
Which policy is it you want them to change? As of Qt 4.5, it is licensed under the LGPL, which means you can write programs under any license and link against Qt, without the need to pay anyone anything Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Constantinos Galilei wrote:
On Tuesday August 25 2009 5:27:08 am G T Smith wrote:
On a more pertinent note, one also needs to consider those who voted with their feet...
[pruned]
There are still features I miss from OS/2's Workplace Shell, but I wouldn't go back to it. I actually made a feature request on this a long time ago, but I'm guessing it didn't interest too many people. I'd still like to see KDE eventually have work folders that act like mini-sessions that you could create by saving the current running programs as a folder and launch them by clicking the folder later, though.
I may be totally wrong here but I got the impression that in 4.3 there is the ACTIVITY feature which does what you are talking about here. BC -- Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Aug 30, 2009, at 7:28 PM, Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
Constantinos Galilei wrote:
On Tuesday August 25 2009 5:27:08 am G T Smith wrote:
On a more pertinent note, one also needs to consider those who voted with their feet...
[pruned]
There are still features I miss from OS/2's Workplace Shell, but I wouldn't go back to it. I actually made a feature request on this a long time ago, but I'm guessing it didn't interest too many people. I'd still like to see KDE eventually have work folders that act like mini-sessions that you could create by saving the current running programs as a folder and launch them by clicking the folder later, though.
I may be totally wrong here but I got the impression that in 4.3 there is the ACTIVITY feature which does what you are talking about here.
BC
I encourage every one to waste no time fiddling with activities. They are horribly broken and unstable at this point. So much so that I have not been able to achieve three consecutive days without activities running wild, multiplying like rabits and just generally getting hozed. They may be workable by release 4.3 I'd rather see everyone get together and lobby the KDE team to abandon the concept of activities or provide a way to turn them off totally. The are zero improvement over multiple desktops. They have steadfast withheld the popular demand for different wallpapers on each desktop so they could ramn this activities concept down our throats. We don't work in widgets. We use applications. There are no usefull widgets that do anything butter than applications. Please everybody lobby Doton to carry this flag instead of chasing after every missing dotted I of crossed T. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [08-30-09 22:49]:
I encourage every one to waste no time fiddling with activities.
They are horribly broken and unstable at this point. So much so that I have not been able to achieve three consecutive days without activities running wild, multiplying like rabits and just generally getting hozed.
They may be workable by release 4.3
I'd rather see everyone get together and lobby the KDE team to abandon the concept of activities or provide a way to turn them off totally.
The are zero improvement over multiple desktops.
I have little problem with either...
They have steadfast withheld the popular demand for different wallpapers on each desktop so they could ramn this activities concept down our throats.
You know not what you say! I have different wallpaper on each of my six desktops.
We don't work in widgets. We use applications. There are no usefull widgets that do anything butter than applications.
Ever think that a widget just might be another word for a special kind of application :^)
Please everybody lobby Doton to carry this flag instead of chasing after every missing dotted I of crossed T.
The flag you wish has lost it's glory and become tattered and dirty, never to be hoisted again. You must realize fact or you will be forever in misery. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 August 2009 06:26:26 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
We don't work in widgets. We use applications. There are no usefull widgets that do anything butter than applications.
Ever think that a widget just might be another word for a special kind of application :^)
It's a lot more generic than that. To say that you don't work in widget is tantamount to saying that you work in text mode. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUI_widget It's a term that's been with us since forever and applies to everything you see in a GUI environment on any platform Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Anders Johansson wrote:
On Monday 31 August 2009 06:26:26 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
We don't work in widgets. We use applications. There are no usefull widgets that do anything butter than applications. Ever think that a widget just might be another word for a special kind of application :^)
It's a lot more generic than that. To say that you don't work in widget is tantamount to saying that you work in text mode.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUI_widget
It's a term that's been with us since forever and applies to everything you see in a GUI environment on any platform
Anders
So its defuse the issue with generalities is it Anders? Activities just are not stable. Unfortunately, there is no way to avoid them and still have different wallpapers so you know where you are at a glance. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 August 2009 07:09:39 John Andersen wrote:
So its defuse the issue with generalities is it Anders?
Activities just are not stable. Unfortunately, there is no way to avoid them and still have different wallpapers so you know where you are at a glance.
Believe me, I am not trying to defend activities, I dislike them too. I think they should go away until they can be added in a more logical manner, with some actual functionality to show their use That doesn't mean we should misappropriate terminology though. "widgets" has nothing to do with activities. I have seen this before, some people seem to think that the term is new with KDE4. Plasma itself I like though. It is already very useful - on the desktop as well as as a plugin architecture for applications Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 August 2009 10:30:21 pm Anders Johansson wrote:
That doesn't mean we should misappropriate terminology though. "widgets" has nothing to do with activities. I have seen this before, some people seem to think that the term is new with KDE4.
Well, the KDE team has done so, and if we are to communicate with them we are pretty well stuck with their terms. When I click on the cashew (another misappropriated term), it refers to Widgets. I thought they were going with "Plasmoids". Did someone have that term copyrighted so they fell back to widgets? -- __________________________________________________________ Somebody stoled my tag line, so now I have this rental... JSA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I encourage every one to waste no time fiddling with activities.
They are horribly broken and unstable at this point. So much so that I have not been able to achieve three consecutive days without activities running wild, multiplying like rabits and just generally getting hozed.
They may be workable by release 4.3
They work fine for me in 4.3. Saying XYZ is broken in an old release of KDE4 is useless. If you're having issues in 4.3... then you have something to grump about, and things need to be fixed. Grumping about an old problem that is likely already fixed is... well... not so productive.
We don't work in widgets. We use applications. There are no usefull widgets that do anything butter than applications.
Ever think that a widget just might be another word for a special kind of application :^)
I've worked in widgets for years... in KDE3. Ever hear of SuperKaramba? In KDE4, I've got some very useful widgets running... one that's saved me a LOT of time is the Server Status one... it pings however many different servers you configure, and reports up/down. There are loads of others.... KDE4.3 is good enough that I've started installing it on my friend's desktops. They love it, and none want to go back to KDE3.5. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 30 August 2009 10:25:21 pm Clayton wrote:
I encourage every one to waste no time fiddling with activities.
They are horribly broken and unstable at this point. So much so that I have not been able to achieve three consecutive days without activities running wild, multiplying like rabits and just generally getting hozed.
They may be workable by release 4.3
They work fine for me in 4.3. Saying XYZ is broken in an old release of KDE4 is useless. If you're having issues in 4.3... then you have something to grump about, and things need to be fixed. Grumping about an old problem that is likely already fixed is... well... not so productive.
I meant to say they may be workable in 4.4 Activities are a huge nuisance in 4.3.0. You think you have one per desktop, only to zoom out and find 4 or 6 or 20. Most with no big Red X to close them. Its just maddening trying to control activities. I've taken to backing up all ~/.kde/share/config/plasma* files simply because its faster than starting from scratch. -- __________________________________________________________ Somebody stoled my tag line, so now I have this rental... JSA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I meant to say they may be workable in 4.4
Activities are a huge nuisance in 4.3.0.
You think you have one per desktop, only to zoom out and find 4 or 6 or 20. Most with no big Red X to close them.
Its just maddening trying to control activities. I've taken to backing up all ~/.kde/share/config/plasma* files simply because its faster than starting from scratch.
Hmmmm... I wonder what's different then between your setup and mine. I've not /yet/ noticed any of the old issues with Workspaces since I did a *clean* install of 4.3. That might be the key there. I did incremental updates from 4.0.3 to 4.3 and had a real disaster... to the point I was about ready to give up some days - intensely frustrating at times to say the least. Then after dropping in a new hard drive, I decided to do a full reinstall with a completely clean KDE4.3 setup. That made a huge difference. When I say clean, I mean totally clean. Install 11.1, upgrade immediately using the One-Click to 4.3. Log out, wipe my home directory completely (I have all the important stuff backed up elsewhere). On logging back in, the system is forced to completely rebuild my /home as if I'm a new user... so no cruft left over in /home from previous generations of KDE4, and no incompatible bits and bobs in the root either. KDE4.3 is working great for me now. Still loads of room for improvement of course, but wow, what a difference. That improvement includes workspaces... they seem to be working fine... granted I don't zoom out all that often... I just use Ctrl+F1, F2 etc to switch desktops (or scroll the mouse wheel on the desktop) and things do what I expect/want. I just did a zoom out, and I see all the desktops I've defined. I can zoom in to one or the other... I can configure each one... each has it's own independent widget set... independent wallpaper... etc etc. no problems so far (fingers crossed). C. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 Aug 2009 06:25:21 Clayton wrote:
I encourage every one to waste no time fiddling with activities.
They are horribly broken and unstable at this point. So much so that I have not been able to achieve three consecutive days without activities running wild, multiplying like rabits and just generally getting hozed.
They may be workable by release 4.3
They work fine for me in 4.3. Saying XYZ is broken in an old release of KDE4 is useless. If you're having issues in 4.3... then you have something to grump about, and things need to be fixed. Grumping about an old problem that is likely already fixed is... well... not so productive.
Well i have installed on the laptop 11.2MS6 and the DO NOT WORK neither does a different wallpaper on each desktop
We don't work in widgets. We use applications. There are no usefull widgets that do anything butter than applications.
Well said , There seems to be a swing away from TRUE applications to lame excuses for apps and web based apps (getting too cosey with M$ Corp i think)
Ever think that a widget just might be another word for a special kind of application :^)
I've worked in widgets for years... in KDE3. Ever hear of SuperKaramba?
In KDE4, I've got some very useful widgets running... one that's saved me a LOT of time is the Server Status one... it pings however many different servers you configure, and reports up/down. There are loads of others....
KDE4.3 is good enough that I've started installing it on my friend's desktops. They love it, and none want to go back to KDE3.5.
C.
still things not working so for a lot of people 4.3 is not an option but people are being Railroaded into it because 3.5 being crippled The Web dev tools in 4.3 suck worse than a rotten egg they are some of the main tools i use the rest of the web dev tools are to put it politley crap terrible hard to use ect ect ect Pete
Well i have installed on the laptop 11.2MS6 and the DO NOT WORK neither does a different wallpaper on each desktop
Lots of things do not work in 11.2M6... and your point is? You're not helping people see your points... valid or otherwise... by your comments... you have valid complaints about KDE4... but people are only going to see your vitriolic outbursts and ignore you completely. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Clayton wrote:
Well i have installed on the laptop 11.2MS6 and the DO NOT WORK �neither does a different wallpaper on each desktop
Lots of things do not work in 11.2M6... and your point is?
You're not helping people see your points... valid or otherwise... by your comments... you have valid complaints about KDE4... but people are only going to see your vitriolic outbursts and ignore you completely.
C.
A lot of us also ignore the rose colored glasses crown with their all is well posts. How is it the glowing reviews of KDE 4.3 totally missed the point that you are forced to use activities, and activities just don't work reliably? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 Aug 2009 09:51:05 Clayton wrote: pruned/
but people are only going to see your vitriolic outbursts and ignore you completely.
C.
IF i was being vitriolic as you claim i would most definatley be as polite rest assured of that i am merely stating a point now of course if you do not like it then thats your right to choose but please do not accuse people of something they are not . Pete
IF i was being vitriolic as you claim i would most definatley be as polite rest assured of that i am merely stating a point now of course if you do not like it then thats your right to choose but please do not accuse people of something they are not .
Only pointing out that your pattern of posts show a lot of frustration and anger and little apparent effort for anything other than just outbursts. If you don't see it.. then OK, fine.. consider it dropped. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
IF i was being vitriolic as you claim i would most definatley be as polite rest assured of that i am merely stating a point now of course if you do not like it then thats your right to choose but please do not accuse people of something they are not .
Only pointing out that your pattern of posts show a lot of frustration and anger and little apparent effort for anything other than just outbursts. If you don't see it.. then OK, fine.. consider it dropped.
C. not so much anger as get fedup with pointless changes for changes sake ok so maybe kde 3.5.x was not brilliant but it functioned and functioned pretty well it has to be said whilst the 4.3 tree is still very lacking and has been made un neseserilly difficult to customise the old method worked well whay hide things in silly out of the way places like that stupid peanut device tucked away in the top corner and then it is not visable all the time one of
On Monday 31 Aug 2009 20:55:22 Clayton wrote: the beautys of Linux was the absolute total configurablatiy of the system it is now heading towards the windBloWs this is what you got shut up and use it method which is alienating a lot of people i fortunately have been using Linux for too long to remember now so can normally find and solve things but a lot cant . I even used to have to hack the early kernels to get them to see the floppy controller on an old MB i used ( i never sent in the patch could never find anyone using the same MoBo ) Pete PC's almost since day one.
Peter Nikolic wrote:
like that stupid peanut device tucked away in the top corner and then it is not visable all the time
Yeah, what's up with that disappearing cashew any way? Sometimes it goes missing totally. Other times you get duplicate menus on the cashew. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [08-31-09 18:22]:
Peter Nikolic wrote:
like that stupid peanut device
A prime example of how to intelligently discuss something Not! Rather another example of your childish behavour along with your sentence structure and grammar. It would be seen differently if you really didn't know the difference.
tucked away in the top corner and then it is not visable all the time
Yeah, what's up with that disappearing cashew any way? Sometimes it goes missing totally. Other times you get duplicate menus on the cashew.
Just for your info and ?peace of mind?: I have been running for six hours not with widgets "unlocked" w/o any dissapearance or moving around or multiplying widgets or.... As far as the cashew "disappearing", that comes from you changing the view from "desktop" to "plain desktop". You are removing the cashew, it is not, as you say, disappearing on it's own. Note: changing the display from "desktop" to "plain desktop" does move all the widgets to the upper right corner of the screen :^(. But I see no reason to continually make that change! -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 01 Sep 2009 00:01:49 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [08-31-09 18:22]:
Peter Nikolic wrote:
like that stupid peanut device
A prime example of how to intelligently discuss something Not! Rather another example of your childish behavour along with your sentence structure and grammar. It would be seen differently if you really didn't know the difference.
And just for your information this is not an english language lesson or course so grammar ect has sweet felicity arcwright to do with it if you,m dont like the grammar then correct it in your mind or put up with it for all you know English may not be my first language have you ever stopped to think about that one Eh ? ..
tucked away in the top corner and then it is not visable all the time
Yeah, what's up with that disappearing cashew any way? Sometimes it goes missing totally. Other times you get duplicate menus on the cashew.
Just for your info and ?peace of mind?: I have been running for six hours not with widgets "unlocked" w/o any dissapearance or moving around or multiplying widgets or....
Well bully for you others of us find completely the opposite the fact you are unable / unwilling to accept that fact is not my problem quite honestly oh and by the way i NEVER turn my machines off except the laptop the rest are 24/7/365.25 duty cycle the only ones rebooted are the ones upgraded and that is on 2 of them . so yes i see more problems cus they get chance to cook
As far as the cashew "disappearing", that comes from you changing the view from "desktop" to "plain desktop". You are removing the cashew, it is not, as you say, disappearing on it's own.
Incorrect it just ups and goes of it's own accord in actual fact
Note: changing the display from "desktop" to "plain desktop" does move all the widgets to the upper right corner of the screen :^(. But I see no reason to continually make that change!
Widgets wogets bogits and scapers just get back to sane configurability as in 3.5.x and most people will leave you alone to savour what you obviously find to your particular liking but not all of us agree and as per usual some people find it very hard to see past the blah and glitz whilst some of us can give us something with workability and all the tools we are used to you'll get peace and quiet then . Pete .
On 31 August 09, Patrick Shanahan wrote: Nothing worth anyone's time reading. -- If guns kill people then... - Pencils mispell words. - Cars make people drive drunk. - Spoons make people overeat. Read The Patriot -- It's Right. It's Free. http://patriotpost.us/subscribe.php -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Hello, On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Peter Nikolic wrote: [KDE]
the old method worked well whay hide things in silly out of the way places like that stupid peanut device tucked away in the top corner and then it is not visable all the time one of the beautys of Linux was the absolute total configurablatiy of the system it is now heading towards the windBloWs this is what you got shut up and use it method
Well, actually, it's KDE and/or Gnome heading that way. Guess why I use neither (KDE not since 1.1.2, Gnome never really). And, if you look to the past, there's a distinct pattern to KDE usability. KDE 1: useful with 1.1.2 KDE 2: useful with 2.x.y # x >=2? >=3? haven't followed that much KDE 3: useful with 3.x.y # x >= 3? probably >= 4 or even 3.5 ... KDE 4: my guess is it'll be 4.5 or later Generally: the last minor version before the next major works best by far (e.g. 1.1.2, IIRC the last 2.x before 3.0 was released, 3.5). So, yes, you are quite right about KDE, but wrong about Linux, and you chose your (desktop) poison yourself. Oh, and don't get me wrong, there are very nice KDE apps, which I even use. E.g. 1.1.2 kmix and various games on my old box, current k3b and other stuff on the new box ... Esp. k3b is quite an improvement over the plethora of somewhat-working-in-special-ways (and all failing in plenty fundamental, sometimes "creative" ways) mkisofs/cdreoord- frontend programs that came with KDE1 and 2 (IIRC). I still got a bunch of those on my old system. Some names, to jog your memory: kreatecd, kcdwrite, keasycd, kisocd and that's just the KDE1 stuff ;) So, what you are experiencing, is nothing new. Or unexpected. IMHO. -dnh, using WindowMaker, which is very configurable, partly via a GUI, very much via config files and ultimatively via the rather smallish source code and/or compilation-time defines. -- The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the stupidity of your action. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 02 Sep 2009 03:59:06 David Haller wrote:
Hello,
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Peter Nikolic wrote: [KDE]
the old method worked well whay hide things in silly out of the way places like that stupid peanut device tucked away in the top corner and then it is not visable all the time one of the beautys of Linux was the absolute total configurablatiy of the system it is now heading towards the windBloWs this is what you got shut up and use it method
Well, actually, it's KDE and/or Gnome heading that way. Guess why I use neither (KDE not since 1.1.2, Gnome never really). And, if you look to the past, there's a distinct pattern to KDE usability.
KDE 1: useful with 1.1.2 KDE 2: useful with 2.x.y # x >=2? >=3? haven't followed that much KDE 3: useful with 3.x.y # x >= 3? probably >= 4 or even 3.5 ... KDE 4: my guess is it'll be 4.5 or later
Generally: the last minor version before the next major works best by far (e.g. 1.1.2, IIRC the last 2.x before 3.0 was released, 3.5).
So, yes, you are quite right about KDE, but wrong about Linux, and you chose your (desktop) poison yourself.
Oh, and don't get me wrong, there are very nice KDE apps, which I even use. E.g. 1.1.2 kmix and various games on my old box, current k3b and other stuff on the new box ... Esp. k3b is quite an improvement over the plethora of somewhat-working-in-special-ways (and all failing in plenty fundamental, sometimes "creative" ways) mkisofs/cdreoord- frontend programs that came with KDE1 and 2 (IIRC). I still got a bunch of those on my old system. Some names, to jog your memory: kreatecd, kcdwrite, keasycd, kisocd and that's just the KDE1 stuff ;)
Some of that was as you say total PITA but i have one box here tis one in fact that K3B refuses to burn DVDISO's it does not even list them (it now plays DVD's and all multimedia no problem
So, what you are experiencing, is nothing new. Or unexpected. IMHO.
-dnh, using WindowMaker, which is very configurable, partly via a GUI, very much via config files and ultimatively via the rather smallish source code and/or compilation-time defines.
In many ways oi much preferred the old OLVWM system i had that setup a treat but last i looked it's a no hope'er now which is a shame it blew the living horse dung out of Gimp it has to be said but then along came KDE , then along came KDE4.x.x and hummmmmmmmmmmmm well it got screwed big time (admitted certain things are showing the begginings of sanity but still way way off the mark) we will see what transpires will not be as good as 3.5.9 was i can bet Pete .
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [08-30-09 22:49]:
I encourage every one to waste no time fiddling with activities.
They are horribly broken and unstable at this point. So much so that I have not been able to achieve three consecutive days without activities running wild, multiplying like rabits and just generally getting hozed.
They may be workable by release 4.3
I'd rather see everyone get together and lobby the KDE team to abandon the concept of activities or provide a way to turn them off totally.
The are zero improvement over multiple desktops.
I have little problem with either...
They have steadfast withheld the popular demand for different wallpapers on each desktop so they could ramn this activities concept down our throats.
You know not what you say! I have different wallpaper on each of my six desktops.
OK, let me - and others - know how you have achieved this? A different wallpaper on each of the six desktops, right? Using 11.1 or 11.2 and KDE4.3, right? And using the 32-bit version of 11.1 or 11.2, right? BC -- Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 Aug 2009 08:16:13 Basil Chupin wrote:
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [08-30-09 22:49]:
I encourage every one to waste no time fiddling with activities.
They are horribly broken and unstable at this point. So much so that I have not been able to achieve three consecutive days without activities running wild, multiplying like rabits and just generally getting hozed.
They may be workable by release 4.3
I'd rather see everyone get together and lobby the KDE team to abandon the concept of activities or provide a way to turn them off totally.
The are zero improvement over multiple desktops.
I have little problem with either...
They have steadfast withheld the popular demand for different wallpapers on each desktop so they could ramn this activities concept down our throats.
You know not what you say! I have different wallpaper on each of my six desktops.
OK, let me - and others - know how you have achieved this? A different wallpaper on each of the six desktops, right? Using 11.1 or 11.2 and KDE4.3, right? And using the 32-bit version of 11.1 or 11.2, right?
BC
That tac has been tried before Basil and we never got told how just some excuse for a tale . Pete .
Peter Nikolic wrote:
On Monday 31 Aug 2009 08:16:13 Basil Chupin wrote:
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [08-30-09 22:49]:
I encourage every one to waste no time fiddling with activities.
They are horribly broken and unstable at this point. So much so that I have not been able to achieve three consecutive days without activities running wild, multiplying like rabits and just generally getting hozed.
They may be workable by release 4.3
I'd rather see everyone get together and lobby the KDE team to abandon the concept of activities or provide a way to turn them off totally.
The are zero improvement over multiple desktops.
I have little problem with either...
They have steadfast withheld the popular demand for different wallpapers on each desktop so they could ramn this activities concept down our throats.
You know not what you say! I have different wallpaper on each of my six desktops.
OK, let me - and others - know how you have achieved this? A different wallpaper on each of the six desktops, right? Using 11.1 or 11.2 and KDE4.3, right? And using the 32-bit version of 11.1 or 11.2, right?
BC
That tac has been tried before Basil and we never got told how just some excuse for a tale .
Pete .
Well, Patrick has specifically stated that he had a different wallpaper on each of his 6 Desktops (I, too, use 6 Desktops); I have asked him how he achieved this. Let's first see what his answer is. BC -- Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Well, Patrick has specifically stated that he had a different wallpaper on each of his 6 Desktops (I, too, use 6 Desktops); I have asked him how he achieved this.
Let's first see what his answer is.
All I did to achieve this was (note this is the latest Factory 4.3 on 11.1 x64): - Click the Cashew or whatever you want to call it up in the top right - Click Configure Plasma Workspace - Click the check box next to Different activity for each desktop - Set up and use each Desktop as normal. Behind the scenes each desktop is an activity.... each activity has one desktop. Switch desktops works as it always has using the scroll wheel, desktop hotspots, or the keyboard (Ctrl+F1 etc). I can zoom out to Dashboard mode and see all activities/desktops, but I never bother with that view. Each desktop has it's own widgets, wallpaper etc etc., and functions independently of the others. I've yet to see any problems... in fact, the whole multi-desktop thing is working a LOT better now than it ever did *for me* in KDE3. I have the desktop effects turned on, and they work great... smooth, toned down as well to just the ones that make the desktop a nice experience (which is mostly the default settings BTW). Workspaces did not work well at all when they were introduced, but a lot of work has apparently went into them, and they are... at least in my case.. stable, usable, and work just fine. I have yet to experience an issue... there might be something lurking, but... so far so good. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Clayton wrote:
Well, Patrick has specifically stated that he had a different wallpaper on each of his 6 Desktops (I, too, use 6 Desktops); I have asked him how he achieved this.
Let's first see what his answer is.
All I did to achieve this was (note this is the latest Factory 4.3 on 11.1 x64): - Click the Cashew or whatever you want to call it up in the top right - Click Configure Plasma Workspace - Click the check box next to Different activity for each desktop - Set up and use each Desktop as normal.
As simple as all this, eh? :-) And all we had to do in KDE 3 was select a different wallpaper for each desktop..... Oh gosh, how *boring* was THAT? :-D . OK, I'll first watch my Harry Potter film (seriously, no joke) and then go and try out this "simpler" method of assigning-a-different-wallpaper-to-a-Desktop trick :-) . Thanks for the above. BC -- Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
All I did to achieve this was (note this is the latest Factory 4.3 on 11.1 x64): - Click the Cashew or whatever you want to call it up in the top right - Click Configure Plasma Workspace - Click the check box next to Different activity for each desktop - Set up and use each Desktop as normal.
As simple as all this, eh? :-)
And all we had to do in KDE 3 was select a different wallpaper for each desktop..... Oh gosh, how *boring* was THAT? :-D .
OK, I'll first watch my Harry Potter film (seriously, no joke) and then go and try out this "simpler" method of assigning-a-different-wallpaper-to-a-Desktop trick :-) .
Thanks for the above.
As simple as setting a check box once... yah, that is pretty hard to do... I mean it's 3 clicks... and then all you need to do is select a wallpaper for each desktop like in KDE3. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 11:31 +0200, Clayton wrote:
All I did to achieve this was (note this is the latest Factory 4.3 on 11.1 x64): - Click the Cashew or whatever you want to call it up in the top right - Click Configure Plasma Workspace - Click the check box next to Different activity for each desktop - Set up and use each Desktop as normal.
As simple as all this, eh? :-)
And all we had to do in KDE 3 was select a different wallpaper for each desktop..... Oh gosh, how *boring* was THAT? :-D .
OK, I'll first watch my Harry Potter film (seriously, no joke) and then go and try out this "simpler" method of assigning-a-different-wallpaper-to-a-Desktop trick :-) .
Thanks for the above.
As simple as setting a check box once... yah, that is pretty hard to do... I mean it's 3 clicks... and then all you need to do is select a wallpaper for each desktop like in KDE3.
I don't have a problem with the various clicks. I like a good mystery as much as the next guy. If I have any issue, it is that when a feature has changed in KDE4, where it is possible to have the initial default set so that the behavior is the same as it was in KDE3, this is not done. I guess settings are made different to call attention to them. While it does get attention, the end result is that too many things need to be figured out just to pick up life in KDE4 where KDE3 left off. Perhaps when adding new users (or to whatever extent it is possible with existing users), a program to set all settings to mimic KDE3 behavior when possible would make a few people happy. Perhaps this has been suggested an I missed it. I know that in our own software, when we make a previously fixed setting into one that can be changed, we ALWAYS AND INVARIABLY set the initial default to the original behavior - no matter how fun and wonderful or new setting may make life on this planet. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Perhaps when adding new users (or to whatever extent it is possible with existing users), a program to set all settings to mimic KDE3 behavior when possible would make a few people happy. Perhaps this has been suggested an I missed it. I know that in our own software, when we make a previously fixed setting into one that can be changed, we ALWAYS AND INVARIABLY set the initial default to the original behavior - no matter how fun and wonderful or new setting may make life on this planet.
I don't know if this is really possible. The concept of how the desktop works has been reworked and redesigned. in a lot of cases there simply isn't an 1 to 1 relation from the KDE3 way to the KDE4 way... in some cases the functionality is not there... others it's been moved to a totally different place, and in others, it's a completely new bit. Being able to default identical to the old behavior... would be difficult in many cases. In your own software, the new features are likely new on top of existing functionality... not a complete rewrite? C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 12:25 +0200, Clayton wrote:
Perhaps when adding new users (or to whatever extent it is possible with existing users), a program to set all settings to mimic KDE3 behavior when possible would make a few people happy. Perhaps this has been suggested an I missed it. I know that in our own software, when we make a previously fixed setting into one that can be changed, we ALWAYS AND INVARIABLY set the initial default to the original behavior - no matter how fun and wonderful or new setting may make life on this planet.
I don't know if this is really possible. The concept of how the desktop works has been reworked and redesigned. in a lot of cases there simply isn't an 1 to 1 relation from the KDE3 way to the KDE4 way... in some cases the functionality is not there... others it's been moved to a totally different place, and in others, it's a completely new bit. Being able to default identical to the old behavior... would be difficult in many cases.
In your own software, the new features are likely new on top of existing functionality... not a complete rewrite?
A rewrite of the code: yes. But let's take the functionality in question: different wallpapers on each desktop. To get this functionality, some settings were first in need of change from their default KDE4 values. Could those settings originally have been set to this changed value, thus allowing the KDE3-compatible behavior out-of-the-box? It is always possible that the change to get KDE3 behavior for this feature messes up some other compatibility issue. Hard to say. But I will hazard the guess that it is not on the list of concerns when deciding on default values in KDE4. I suspect they are set more to show off new features than, even when possible, to maintain consistency with KDE3. Saying it is a re-write is quite often, I think, a cop-out. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
But I will hazard the guess that it is not on the list of concerns when deciding on default values in KDE4. I suspect they are set more to show off new features
In regards to the discussion at hand: individual desktop configurations, just what new features have arrived? Widgets on desktops so your calculator is always handy? Come on! Why is this "Activity" layer being imposed? It adds nothing but complexity and unreliability. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2009-08-31 at 12:25 +0200, Clayton wrote:
Perhaps when adding new users (or to whatever extent it is possible with existing users), a program to set all settings to mimic KDE3 behavior when possible would make a few people happy. Perhaps this has been suggested an I missed it. I know that in our own software, when we make a previously fixed setting into one that can be changed, we ALWAYS AND INVARIABLY set the initial default to the original behavior - no matter how fun and wonderful or new setting may make life on this planet.
I don't know if this is really possible. The concept of how the desktop works has been reworked and redesigned. in a lot of cases there simply isn't an 1 to 1 relation from the KDE3 way to the KDE4 way... in some cases the functionality is not there... others it's been moved to a totally different place, and in others, it's a completely new bit. Being able to default identical to the old behavior... would be difficult in many cases.
In your own software, the new features are likely new on top of existing functionality... not a complete rewrite?
A bit of both. Depends on what is happening. I think the biggest frustrations many folk have in the KDE3->KDE4 transition is not merely the reorganization, but the reorganization with out any concern for backward compatibility - even when it is discovered that the KDE3 functionality is still available, but things are set so that you would never guess. If, as is implied, KDE4 has rethought things from scratch, one might expect the developers to at least start with an understanding of (1) what the current system does (2) what should be improved (3) how to make these changes without compromising item 1, (4) how much needs to be changed in user-land to accomplish this change. I suspect items 3 and 4 were way down on the list of priorities. Surely it was not expected that this would not have consequences. Having said all this, on the whole I am happy with KDE4. The often unnecessary disconnect with KDE3 is unfortunate, and has led to lots of wasted time on the part of the users. Obviously we will all get past this. But what will happen with KDE5?
C.
-- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
A bit of both. Depends on what is happening. I think the biggest frustrations many folk have in the KDE3->KDE4 transition is not merely the reorganization, but the reorganization with out any concern for backward compatibility - even when it is discovered that the KDE3 functionality is still available, but things are set so that you would never guess.
Well.... in a way yes, but also, a lot of what people are yelling about (and in some cases quite rightly) is being added in. The first real try at KDE4 was 4.0.3, and it was very far from being complete. The problem is a lot of people formed their opinions of KDE4 from that - and you know the saying... first impressions... things have changed and are changing with KDE4, and most of those missing bits are being added in as they are written... as they are raised in KDE bug reports. Dotan has been very busy with those reports... :-) Having spent many years with my finger in some aspect or another of software development, I can completely understand why the code maintainers would want a rewrite... and I also understand how hard it is to do that effectively. I wonder how the similar effort with Gnome3 will go? From what i read, that will also roll in a lot of very deep and far reachign changes.. hopefully they can observe an learn from the rocky path of KDE4... and KDE5 and Gnome 3 can be much smoother releases. I'm also quite happy with KDE4 now. It works - albeit differently than KDE3 - and for me it works well. There are a few bits here and there that are not quite right, but with each release I can see them improving, and in most cases quite dramatically. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Clayton wrote:
All I did to achieve this was (note this is the latest Factory 4.3 on 11.1 x64): �- Click the Cashew or whatever you want to call it up in the top right �- Click Configure Plasma Workspace �- Click the check box next to Different activity for each desktop �- Set up and use each Desktop as normal.
As simple as all this, eh? :-)
And all we had to do in KDE 3 was select a different wallpaper for each desktop..... Oh gosh, how *boring* was THAT? :-D .
OK, I'll first watch my Harry Potter film (seriously, no joke) and then go and try out this "simpler" method of assigning-a-different-wallpaper-to-a-Desktop trick :-) .
Thanks for the above.
As simple as setting a check box once...
No, Clayton its NOT that simple. You think all is well and good. Running along all fat and happy. Then you unlock the widgets to add something and BOOM, your desktop goes all wonky, your widgets scurry into obscure places like rats. You zoom out, and instead of one activity per desktop you have 4 or 5 more than you need, and have no idea where they come from. Every single time you use the Unlock feature you put your entire screen setup at risk. I'd like you to calmly explain just what was so hard about configuring multiple desktops in KDE 3 that caused you so much problems. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 Aug 2009 19:10:55 John Andersen wrote:
Clayton wrote:
All I did to achieve this was (note this is the latest Factory 4.3 on 11.1 x64): �- Click the Cashew or whatever you want to call it up in the top right �- Click Configure Plasma Workspace �- Click the check box next to Different activity for each desktop �- Set up and use each Desktop as normal.
As simple as all this, eh? :-)
And all we had to do in KDE 3 was select a different wallpaper for each desktop..... Oh gosh, how *boring* was THAT? :-D .
OK, I'll first watch my Harry Potter film (seriously, no joke) and then go and try out this "simpler" method of assigning-a-different-wallpaper-to-a-Desktop trick :-) .
Thanks for the above.
As simple as setting a check box once...
No, Clayton its NOT that simple.
You think all is well and good. Running along all fat and happy.
Then you unlock the widgets to add something and BOOM, your desktop goes all wonky, your widgets scurry into obscure places like rats.
You zoom out, and instead of one activity per desktop you have 4 or 5 more than you need, and have no idea where they come from.
Every single time you use the Unlock feature you put your entire screen setup at risk.
I'd like you to calmly explain just what was so hard about configuring multiple desktops in KDE 3 that caused you so much problems.
For the life of me i fail to see just why people had to make things so darn hard in KDE4.x.x what is wrong with all the desktop settings in ONE place instead of some on that mighty annoying peanut thingy some in personal settings and some in well your guess is a good as mine The old saying still rules K I S S simple and useable for all not just the fully clued up amongst us . Pete .
Then you unlock the widgets to add something and BOOM, your desktop goes all wonky, your widgets scurry into obscure places like rats.
I've yet to see this... it's not happening to me yet. I've been running 2 weeks now since my clean install... I can zoom out.. I see only the desktops/activities I've defined... no more.. no less. I can unlock and lock my widgets... done it several times over the course of the last 2 weeks... everything is staying where it belongs.
I'd like you to calmly explain just what was so hard about configuring multiple desktops in KDE 3 that caused you so much problems.
Nothing was hard.. just like nothing is hard about it in KDE4. It just works overall better for me in KDE4 with the work I do... the apps I use.. the games I play... etc etc. I find it much easier to achieve a desktop that I need/want for my work... and for play in KDE4. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Clayton wrote:
All I did to achieve this was (note this is the latest Factory 4.3 on 11.1 x64): - Click the Cashew or whatever you want to call it up in the top right - Click Configure Plasma Workspace - Click the check box next to Different activity for each desktop - Set up and use each Desktop as normal.
As simple as all this, eh? :-)
And all we had to do in KDE 3 was select a different wallpaper for each desktop..... Oh gosh, how *boring* was THAT? :-D .
OK, I'll first watch my Harry Potter film (seriously, no joke) and then go and try out this "simpler" method of assigning-a-different-wallpaper-to-a-Desktop trick :-) .
Thanks for the above.
As simple as setting a check box once... yah, that is pretty hard to do... I mean it's 3 clicks... and then all you need to do is select a wallpaper for each desktop like in KDE3.
C.
Ummmm... while my first impression was, "It's brilliant!", and, certainly, one can get to the situation one enjoyed in KDE3 with each desktop having its own wallpaper but the process one has to take to get there is NOT brilliant. After doing what you mention above, one then has to go thru the task of "setting up", as you put it, each desktop - in my case I have 6 so I had to go thru 6 setups: do what you mention above then for each desktop select Desktop Configuration, select a wallpaper *AND*, before all this will work, one has to also select the Folder View for the desktop. My heart goes out to those who use more than the default 4 desktops :'( . One thing: I dislike having my desktop space unnecessarily taken up by the taskbar/taskmanager/whatetever so I always have it hidden (been doing this since 2000 with XP). Unless I am not doing the right thing, I cannot have this option "stick" after I configure it. The taskbar/taskmanager always comes back as VISIBLE when I reboot the system. One more thing: after I configure my 6 desktops to look like KDE3, how do I get back to the default installation in 4.3? :-) . I don't want to lose these settings - but would want to toggle between the 4.3 and the 3.5 look. Not possible? Nevertheless, I see that there is potential here. When the bugs are eradicated out of KDE4.3 it just might become a usable DE. BC -- Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Peter Nikolic <p.nikolic1@btinternet.com> [08-31-09 03:50]:
That tac has been tried before Basil and we never got told how just some excuse for a tale .
It's a shame that you cannot contribute and are apparently developmentally challenged that you cannot understand the very basic instructions that have been presented here. Your immense displeasure with the present operating system should move you to something less challenging and releave us of your incoherent, childish rantings. If you cannot contribute, you are merely a weight upon a drowning man. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 Aug 2009 15:42:20 Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Peter Nikolic <p.nikolic1@btinternet.com> [08-31-09 03:50]:
That tac has been tried before Basil and we never got told how just some excuse for a tale .
It's a shame that you cannot contribute and are apparently developmentally challenged that you cannot understand the very basic instructions that have been presented here.
Your immense displeasure with the present operating system should move you to something less challenging and releave us of your incoherent, childish rantings.
If you cannot contribute, you are merely a weight upon a drowning man.
OOOHHhhhhh pot calling kettle black !. Pete .
On 31 August 09, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Peter Nikolic <p.nikolic1@btinternet.com> [08-31-09 03:50]:
That tac has been tried before Basil and we never got told how just some excuse for a tale .
It's a shame that you cannot contribute and are apparently developmentally challenged that you cannot understand the very basic instructions that have been presented here.
Any "shame" to be put on anyone is on you, you pompous ass. Peter has contributed lots. You have too, so long as you were able to make the person you were helping out feel small and insignificant. If you're so good at being what the world wants, why do so many keep telling you to FOAD?
Your immense displeasure with the present operating system should move you to something less challenging and releave us of your incoherent, childish rantings.
Right alongside *your* childish rantings, like the one above? You useless puke! STFU and FOAD.
If you cannot contribute, you are merely a weight upon a drowning man.
It'd be nice if *YOU* were the drowning man! Go die alone in a field somewhere. Maybe you'll be able to berate and humiliate some poor dumb creature of the woods and it won't piss all over your body when you collapse. You friggin' diquehole. -- "Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical group of hand-wringing, bleeding-heart liberals, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end". -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 01 September 2009, JB2 wrote:
On 31 August 09, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Right alongside *your* childish rantings, like the one above? You useless puke! STFU and FOAD.
Oh, aren't we just the best thing to happen. You have NEVER made a contribution other than your usual BS.
If you cannot contribute, you are merely a weight upon a drowning man.
It'd be nice if *YOU* were the drowning man! Go die alone in a field somewhere. Maybe you'll be able to berate and humiliate some poor dumb creature of the woods and it won't piss all over your body when you collapse. You friggin' diquehole.
BFD. Take a hike. You are totally worthless and a detriment to all mankind. Bitbucket for you.. -- Powered by SuSE 11.0 Kernel 2.6.25 KDE 3.5 Kmail 1.9 3:55pm up 11 days 18:09, 3 users, load average: 0.20, 0.08, 0.05 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Mike wrote:
On Tuesday 01 September 2009, JB2 wrote:
On 31 August 09, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
Right alongside *your* childish rantings, like the one above? You useless puke! STFU and FOAD.
Oh, aren't we just the best thing to happen. You have NEVER made a contribution other than your usual BS.
If you cannot contribute, you are merely a weight upon a drowning man.
It'd be nice if *YOU* were the drowning man! Go die alone in a field somewhere. Maybe you'll be able to berate and humiliate some poor dumb creature of the woods and it won't piss all over your body when you collapse. You friggin' diquehole.
BFD. Take a hike. You are totally worthless and a detriment to all mankind. Bitbucket for you..
Taken you this long to bitbucket him, eh? :-) . I did it, what, a couple of years ago- whatever he posts is automatically sent to the junk folder and deleted. BC -- Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:46:08 -0500, JB2 wrote: [nothing worth reading - only because YOU are so fond of telling others the same thing] Guys, take it to private e-mail - the list isn't the appropriate place for you two to flame each other. Sheesh. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 01 September 09, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:46:08 -0500, JB2 wrote:
[nothing worth reading - only because YOU are so fond of telling others the same thing]
Guys, take it to private e-mail - the list isn't the appropriate place for you two to flame each other.
Sheesh.
...as you prove your hypocrisy and flame. What an ass. STFU. -- Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs safer. Read The Patriot -- It's Right. It's Free. http://patriotpost.us/subscribe.php -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:11:20 -0500, JB2 wrote:
On 01 September 09, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:46:08 -0500, JB2 wrote:
[nothing worth reading - only because YOU are so fond of telling others the same thing]
Guys, take it to private e-mail - the list isn't the appropriate place for you two to flame each other.
Sheesh.
...as you prove your hypocrisy and flame. What an ass. STFU.
Nice and mature, JB2 - and another wonderfully content-free post. Good to see that you can dish it out but you can't take it. <plonk> Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Jim Henderson wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:11:20 -0500, JB2 wrote:
On 01 September 09, Jim Henderson wrote:
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 08:46:08 -0500, JB2 wrote:
[nothing worth reading - only because YOU are so fond of telling others the same thing]
Guys, take it to private e-mail - the list isn't the appropriate place for you two to flame each other.
Sheesh.
...as you prove your hypocrisy and flame. What an ass. STFU.
Nice and mature, JB2 - and another wonderfully content-free post. Good to see that you can dish it out but you can't take it.
<plonk>
Jim
I "plonked" him a looooooong time ago. Anything he posts automatically goes into the Deleted folder. And I am most surprised how his posts still keep getting thru as I was led to believe that he was banned from oS mail lists. BC -- "There are none so blind as those who will not see." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 04 September 2009 01:41:19 Basil Chupin wrote:
And I am most surprised how his posts still keep getting thru as I was led to believe that he was banned from oS mail lists.
There was only one ban in recent history (2005+), and that wasn't him. -- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 04 September 2009 01:41:19 Basil Chupin wrote:
And I am most surprised how his posts still keep getting thru as I was led to believe that he was banned from oS mail lists.
There was only one ban in recent history (2005+), and that wasn't him.
Ah, OK. I thought it was the same character. Sad, isn't it, that there are 2 of them :-( -- but only 1 banned. BC -- "There are none so blind as those who will not see." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 06 September 09, Basil Chupin wrote:
Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 04 September 2009 01:41:19 Basil Chupin wrote:
And I am most surprised how his posts still keep getting thru as I was led to believe that he was banned from oS mail lists.
There was only one ban in recent history (2005+), and that wasn't him.
Ah, OK. I thought it was the same character.
Sad, isn't it, that there are 2 of them :-( -- but only 1 banned.
The only thing "sad" about any of it, is that whiners like you who can't stand to have anyone talk back to them and question something they might possibly say, try so damned hard to make those people be quiet so you can keep spewing whatever it is you like hearing yourself spew. You know, like a typical hypocrite. -- The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. -Tacitus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> [08-31-09 03:16]:
OK, let me - and others - know how you have achieved this? A different wallpaper on each of the six desktops, right? Using 11.1 or 11.2 and KDE4.3, right? And using the 32-bit version of 11.1 or 11.2, right?
x86_64, 11.2/m6 But Clayton has accruately presented the avenue, just follow the steps he presented. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> [08-31-09 03:16]:
OK, let me - and others - know how you have achieved this? A different wallpaper on each of the six desktops, right? Using 11.1 or 11.2 and KDE4.3, right? And using the 32-bit version of 11.1 or 11.2, right?
x86_64, 11.2/m6
But Clayton has accruately presented the avenue, just follow the steps he presented.
He accurately presented the (totally undocumented, completely obscure) "avenue" and hand waived the problem away. Follow Clayton's methods and create four activities for your four desktops. Come back and tell us how many activities exit after a week of working on the machine. Go ahead, zoom out, and explain why and where those extra activities came from, and how to get rid of them. And explain how some random activity from among those extra mystery activities somehow takes over one of your four desktops upon the slightest whim. And explain how to get it back the way it was. For the rest of us, who only wanted different wallpaper on our four or six desktops, this is a wrestling match that don't want. I can just launch a calculator on the desktop I want it to appear on. It stays there. Its there when I reboot. I don't have to reconfigure it every three days. There is only one reliable way to hold this mess together in 4.3, and that is to make copies of every thing that begins with the word "plasma" in your .kde/share/config directory against the day (very soon) that your desktop goes wonky again. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> [08-31-09 03:16]:
OK, let me - and others - know how you have achieved this? A different wallpaper on each of the six desktops, right? Using 11.1 or 11.2 and KDE4.3, right? And using the 32-bit version of 11.1 or 11.2, right?
x86_64, 11.2/m6
But Clayton has accruately presented the avenue, just follow the steps he presented.
He accurately presented the (totally undocumented, completely obscure) "avenue" and hand waived the problem away.
Follow Clayton's methods and create four activities for your four desktops.
Come back and tell us how many activities exit after a week of working on the machine. Go ahead, zoom out, and explain why and where those extra activities came from, and how to get rid of them.
And explain how some random activity from among those extra mystery activities somehow takes over one of your four desktops upon the slightest whim. And explain how to get it back the way it was.
For the rest of us, who only wanted different wallpaper on our four or six desktops, this is a wrestling match that don't want. I can just launch a calculator on the desktop I want it to appear on. It stays there. Its there when I reboot. I don't have to reconfigure it every three days.
There is only one reliable way to hold this mess together in 4.3, and that is to make copies of every thing that begins with the word "plasma" in your .kde/share/config directory against the day (very soon) that your desktop goes wonky again.
John, see my response to Clayton. There is another step one has to go thru which will create a desktop equivalent (well....) to what one had in KDE3. I haven't yet tried to emulate what you talk about above but from what I have done I am not having disasters. My only complaint so far is that the configuration to auto-hide the taskbar/taskmanager will not "stick" and the damn 'bar comes back visible after a reboot. BC -- Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Basil Chupin<blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
John, see my response to Clayton. There is another step one has to go thru which will create a desktop equivalent (well....) to what one had in KDE3.
I haven't yet tried to emulate what you talk about above but from what I have done I am not having disasters. My only complaint so far is that the configuration to auto-hide the taskbar/taskmanager will not "stick" and the damn 'bar comes back visible after a reboot.
I did pretty much exactly what you did, (only four desktops). I skipped the step you mentioned:
*AND*, before all this will work, one has to also select the Folder View for the desktop. " because I don't want folder view. That allows you to view a folder as your desktop which is pretty much required if you want to have icons on the desktop as I understand.
But I've decided to make user of the Favorites in the panel and go for the clean desktop look. Are you saying you have to go for Folder View to achieve stability? (I could do that and just refrain from putting crap in that folder easily enough). -- ----------JSA--------- Someone stole my tag line, so now I have this rental. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [09-01-09 15:23]:
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Basil Chupin<blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
I did pretty much exactly what you did, (only four desktops).
I skipped the step you mentioned:
*AND*, before all this will work, one has to also select the Folder View for the desktop. "
because I don't want folder view. That allows you to view a folder as your desktop which is pretty much required if you want to have icons on the desktop as I understand.
I don't use "folder view". I use "desktop" view and add a widget, "Folder View", to the desktop. You can tell it to display the contents of the desktop or and folder/directory. It *is* different and requires a "little getting used to" and some investigation. But it works and pretty good. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [09-01-09 15:23]:
On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 6:13 AM, Basil Chupin<blchupin@iinet.net.au> wrote:
I did pretty much exactly what you did, (only four desktops).
I skipped the step you mentioned:
*AND*, before all this will work, one has to also select the Folder View for the desktop. "
because I don't want folder view. That allows you to view a folder as your desktop which is pretty much required if you want to have icons on the desktop as I understand.
I don't use "folder view". I use "desktop" view and add a widget, "Folder View", to the desktop. You can tell it to display the contents of the desktop or and folder/directory.
It *is* different and requires a "little getting used to" and some investigation. But it works and pretty good.
I wasn't implying an ignorance of folder view. I have used it, in both modes, as a widget and a full desktop. I simply prefer not to use it at all in either mode if I don't have to in order to achieve stability. I'm content to keep icons off the desktop at this point. Yet again today, I zoomed out, saw 6 Activities for my 4 desktops. And NONE of them had the red X so that I could delete them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [09-01-09 17:26]:
Yet again today, I zoomed out, saw 6 Activities for my 4 desktops. And NONE of them had the red X so that I could delete them.
Change to "folder view" before zooming out and you will have the "rec X". I am considering filing a bug report against this situation. I believe that *any* of the views should allow removing activities. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [09-01-09 17:26]:
Yet again today, I zoomed out, saw 6 Activities for my 4 desktops. And NONE of them had the red X so that I could delete them.
Change to "folder view" before zooming out and you will have the "rec X". I am considering filing a bug report against this situation. I believe that *any* of the views should allow removing activities.
Thanks but... No, unfortunately, switching to folder view did not reveal any red X's. But hey, thanks for the two NEW Activities it ginned up out of thin air by following your suggestion. ;-) I'm sure that wasn't intentional on your part. But it did suggest an experiment. So I stepped to another desktop, and switched to Folder View. It cloned that desktop's activity too!!! Now I have 8 activities for 4 desktops, and I still have two desktops I have not played with yet. Maybe Basil was right. You have to run in folder View to keep things under control. But Still no red X to bee seen. Luckily I do all my testing for KDE4 in a virtual machine. I am at the point may just nuke this Virtual machine and start over. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [09-01-09 17:26]:
Yet again today, I zoomed out, saw 6 Activities for my 4 desktops. And NONE of them had the red X so that I could delete them.
Change to "folder view" before zooming out and you will have the "rec X". I am considering filing a bug report against this situation. I believe that *any* of the views should allow removing activities.
Thanks but... No, unfortunately, switching to folder view did not reveal any red X's.
But hey, thanks for the two NEW Activities it ginned up out of thin air by following your suggestion. ;-) I'm sure that wasn't intentional on your part.
But it did suggest an experiment. So I stepped to another desktop, and switched to Folder View. It cloned that desktop's activity too!!! Now I have 8 activities for 4 desktops, and I still have two desktops I have not played with yet.
Maybe Basil was right. You have to run in folder View to keep things under control.
But Still no red X to bee seen.
Luckily I do all my testing for KDE4 in a virtual machine.
I am at the point may just nuke this Virtual machine and start over.
Hold the phone... After getting into folder view and then UN-Checking one Activity per Desktop, my Red Xs are back. I can now delete activities and start over. -- We need to install /dev/vice. Its a device for developers. Each time they make boneheaded untested software we add 1 to /dev/vice. This tightens the vice mounted on their chair. JSA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [09-01-09 18:45]:
Hold the phone...
After getting into folder view and then UN-Checking one Activity per Desktop, my Red Xs are back.
I can now delete activities and start over.
Please elaborate: "UN-Checking one Activity per Desktop". -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [09-01-09 18:45]:
Hold the phone...
After getting into folder view and then UN-Checking one Activity per Desktop, my Red Xs are back.
I can now delete activities and start over.
Please elaborate: "UN-Checking one Activity per Desktop".
Cashew / Zoom out / Configure Plasma Workspaces / Different Activity for each Desktop -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* John Andersen <jsamyth@gmail.com> [09-01-09 18:45]:
Hold the phone...
After getting into folder view and then UN-Checking one Activity per Desktop, my Red Xs are back.
I can now delete activities and start over. Please elaborate: "UN-Checking one Activity per Desktop".
Cashew / Zoom out / Configure Plasma Workspaces / Different Activity for each Desktop
But there are more bugs .... Arrange your desktop wall papers so you know what which wallpaper is on which dekstop. So: Desktop / Wallpaper 1 a 2 b 3 c 4 d Now zoom out. Select from the Pager in the Panel desktop one. See the pretty picture A Zoom out Zoom in using the magnifier glass on pretty picture B At this point you are still on desktop 1 but picture B is shown. Desktop 4 now has picture A. Zooming out did NOT change desktops even when you have "Different activity for each Desktop" checked. It merely shuffled the wallpaper!!! So the principal function of Wallpaper, to let you know which screen you are on is hozed, because depending on which magnifier glass you clicked that Activity is moved to the current desktop. If you were programming, and zoomed out to see quickly look at all the highly sophisticated widgets on your accounting activity and then zoomed in in using that magnifier, you are now looking at your programming IDE with your accounting widgets and wallpaper.!! What a mess! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Patrick Shanahan wrote:
* Basil Chupin <blchupin@iinet.net.au> [08-31-09 03:16]:
OK, let me - and others - know how you have achieved this? A different wallpaper on each of the six desktops, right? Using 11.1 or 11.2 and KDE4.3, right? And using the 32-bit version of 11.1 or 11.2, right?
x86_64, 11.2/m6
But Clayton has accruately presented the avenue, just follow the steps he presented.
He only put forward the beginning of the procedure. He left out some bits (and so did you it seems) -- see my response to his post. BC -- Great Man reaches complete understanding of the main issues; Petty Man reaches complete understanding of the minute details." Confucius -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 31 Aug 2009 03:28:04 Basil Chupin wrote:
Constantinos Galilei wrote:
On Tuesday August 25 2009 5:27:08 am G T Smith wrote:
On a more pertinent note, one also needs to consider those who voted with their feet...
[pruned]
There are still features I miss from OS/2's Workplace Shell, but I wouldn't go back to it. I actually made a feature request on this a long time ago, but I'm guessing it didn't interest too many people. I'd still like to see KDE eventually have work folders that act like mini-sessions that you could create by saving the current running programs as a folder and launch them by clicking the folder later, though.
I may be totally wrong here but I got the impression that in 4.3 there is the ACTIVITY feature which does what you are talking about here.
BC
Hi . This much vaulted Activity thing is just so much CR*P it is untrue it totally does not do what it has been suggested it does do , I got my ear chewd for this not long ago and know what i could not give a rats a** there are a FEW things in the latest KDE that are getting there but there is still a lot that is still PRE ALPHA quality. You still can not have individual wallpapers on each Virtual Desktop if you use the much vaulted Activity thing you still wind up with stuff you do not want on every desktop call up kmix then try using the activity thing Kmix will follow blindly as will any other program that may be running call that fixed i think not . Pete .
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Constantinos Galilei wrote:
On Tuesday August 25 2009 5:27:08 am G T Smith wrote:
On a more pertinent note, one also needs to consider those who voted with their feet...
Do they? You mentioned the importance of choice. Why should KDE people care about what non-KDE users think of KDE? Believe it or not, there are those who leave other desktops for KDE, as well. If you find that uncomfortable, go ahead and disbelieve it, but ask yourself if Gnome people should care what non-Gnome users think.
There are still features I miss from OS/2's Workplace Shell, but I wouldn't go back to it. I actually made a feature request on this a long time ago, but I'm guessing it didn't interest too many people. I'd still like to see KDE eventually have work folders that act like mini-sessions that you could create by saving the current running programs as a folder and launch them by clicking the folder later, though.
I think this would have major technical difficulties in implementing (see below)...
The only thing I used on a regular basis that was QT based was konqueror as a file browser. (I am not impressed by dolphin). This was largely mitigated by mc and the discovery that Nautilus no longer did crazy things on my setups. The few other KDE things I use on occasional basis had GTK or X based alternative. KDE AFAIK is the only QT based desktop, and there are rather a lot of non-QT based desktops. So I realised that it it did not make much sense for me install KDE or the QT libraries or invest time in setting up KDE4 (YMMV).
You've actually inspired me to uninstall Gnome. The only GTK apps I use are Firefox, Openoffice (of which I will be using the QT version if that's ever finished) and GIMP, and with the exception of GIMP, these thankfully don't *look* like GTK apps. I've had Gnome on my machine forever and it's kind of a waste of drive space.
This discussion has wandered of into weird and wonderful territory elsewhere. Something that was not my intent. The Gnome API and the GTK GUI API are two different but mutually interdependant things (and unfortunately in many cases you will need to retain the Gnome configuration tools in order to configure the Gnome GUI interface, and whether it is possible or easy to do this without Gnome being installed is not something I know very much about). Good luck in defining the config *you* need. However, in this case you may have a flaw in your logic. The QT version of OpenOffice may be possibly constrained by the SUN Java SDK/JDK and some particular issues with the QT development tools for Java. (Someone involved in OpenOffice development may have insight on this). What complicates matters is with a choice of GUI APIs all with subtle (and not so subtle) differences in use, writing to all APIs is not really a practicable solution (possibly outside of Java). A desktop is just a presentation layer, and as such should ideally accommodate application interface designs that are non-standard to that desktop. The problem is that for the naive user the resultant unholy mess with configuration can be very confusing (as it can be for the not so naive for that matter). It would be nice to have a tool to handle this issue (and I am not aware that one exists) which is a reason for at least the KDE and GNOME communities to be aware and care, but as the GNOME and KDE diplomatic relationship seems to be at best cool I do not see this happening soon, if at all. Adding execution images of some sort would be horribly difficult in this situation, unless one could persuade all developers to configure or add the appropriate support. KDE 3.x is a bit more than purely a desktop, it is also has integrated components that give productivity and collaboration abilities with a bit more functionality than MS Works in some ways but not as much as either OpenOffice (or MS Office) in others. It in some ways it could be argued KDE3.x violates the *NIX KISS principle that you have a lot of small things which do simple tightly defined stuff well. (I am under the impression that KDE 4.x ignores that principle and is built on complex ways of making simple things seem simpler, which is a worthy objective I suppose, but the results are causing some dissension in the ranks). Gnome AFAIK is more of a pure desktop. Having briefly looked at both the QT and GTK APIs I came to the general conclusion that for my usages GTK had a simplicity and flexibility that QT lacked (I hate coding GUI interfaces, and GTK plus Glade seem a little less painless than QT plus the QT tools). s
PS There is now a further factor to consider. When Nokia acquired Trolltech hence QT, it was not to get a foothold in the PC based Open Source market place (it was more likely part of a strategic response to the potential threat posed by android, and the need to update the Symbian OS GUI). Nokia are largely indifferent to Open Source based development and its community, (and can afford to be as Open Source based development in of handset applications is marginal). In some ways Nokia can make M$ seem positively cuddly...., and Nokias relative silence about the future of QT outside of their core market is probably more of a cause of concern than if they had said anything.
This point is more or less moot. The open source community has a fork of QT that will be available forever. I actually hope that Nokia changes the policy on the commercial QT, but it's actually not in their interests as a separate QT would be major competition and developers would be able to write commercial applications using the free QT without paying a fee to Nokia/Trolltech. Keeping a unified QT means that free and commercial QT applications remain compatible and the commercial version remains relevant. Nokia's kind of stuck on this one.
Forever is a very big word. I think any developer(s) contemplating a port from anything to QT will be doing a rethink, QT on Linux may be heading into the same anomalous zone as ReiserFS. KDE may need to either port to something else or take a lead role in the open source QT fork, at least for QA purposes, if they have not already. Especially if Nokia finally decide to just do a technology asset strip of Trolltech, (which effectively is what happened with Symbian/PSION). Nokia with the N900 series of device seem to have dropped Maemo Linux in favour of Windows 7. Symbian has also been open sourced (I have not looked at what exactly is involved), but as the various Symbian SDKs have always been freely available I am not sure this is really a big change. However, the development tools (phone simulators and the like) are exclusively windows based. If Nokia make the QT tools available in a similar manner it seems possible that non-Linux versions are more likely to be promoted. (It should not be forgotten Nokia outside of North America are still dominant in their primary market, so I doubt they would regard the FOSS/Linux lobby as something to worry about at this time). - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqdKcgACgkQasN0sSnLmgLkVgCfetmHCtFocQ8KS1EnPZRfAAtV N2QAn3xZ2mb4PbBc2BQlQ3j49tCmR89n =/RcW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Nokia with the N900 series of device seem to have dropped Maemo Linux in favour of Windows 7.
Ummm... they have? Last I checked the N900 was Maemo/Linux based.... C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Clayton wrote:
Nokia with the N900 series of device seem to have dropped Maemo Linux in favour of Windows 7.
Ummm... they have? Last I checked the N900 was Maemo/Linux based....
C.
Things seem to have moved on.. (UK bank holiday weekend :-) )... The N900 is apparently so... http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/27/nokia_n900/ what I was really thinking about was the 3G (which I seem to being referred to as the N900 somewhere)... http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/26/nokia_arm_netbook/ Always get a little confusing following the nokia release/rumour mill As following reports of the N97 revamp (which is Symbian based) tends to confirm http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/26/n97_mini_pictures/ How long Nokia will support 3 devices on 3 different OS's covering the same market and which actually hits the street in any numbers is a moot point (the N8xx hardly set the world alight, over priced and under performed according to many reports, and the N900 may be an attempt to flog a dead horse)... but one does get the impression the right hand does not know what the left is doing... - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqeOVoACgkQasN0sSnLmgItiQCePVy+Tb5ClR/tGSHu8uRb1bg7 e38AoNca4nd7LGJu2P5cOXLlLgy8Uljg =xHAV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
How long Nokia will support 3 devices on 3 different OS's covering the same market and which actually hits the street in any numbers is a moot point (the N8xx hardly set the world alight, over priced and under performed according to many reports, and the N900 may be an attempt to flog a dead horse)... but one does get the impression the right hand does not know what the left is doing...
I have an N800, and it's great. I've got no real complaints. Installed KDE3.5 on it... used it a LOT on my travels in Kenya and Rwanda. It was a lot more useful than packing about a laptop (something I did on previous trips) due to its size and the environment I was in. Granted the small interface is a bit... cramped, but it definitely did the job. I was able to wade through my emails (IMAP connection to the office in Europe), ssh to other machines as needed.. run VNC sessions and log into my home/work PCs, Skype chat with friends etc etc. Granted, I can do mos/all of this with my iPhone too, but only if I jailbreak it. I bought my N800 in California (while on a business trip a couple years ago) and it was stinking hard to track down. Loads of shops had them, but they were always sold out. I got one the day before I was due to leave the US only by calling every shop I could find in the Bay Area, and reserving one.... so at some point, they were selling well :-) I'm kinda looking forward to the N900 as a significant improvement on a nice concept... time will tell of course. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (15)
-
Anders Johansson -
Basil Chupin -
Clayton -
Constantinos Galilei -
David Haller -
G T Smith -
JB2 -
Jim Henderson -
John Andersen -
jsa
-
Mike -
Patrick Shanahan -
Peter Nikolic -
Rajko M. -
Roger Oberholtzer