I have a fair bit of spare time on my hands at the moment, being unemployed, and I figured that I may as well put it to good use. I opted to try and learn programming, having never programmed before. I did a very little of the BASIC programming lang AGES ago and whilst it was sometimes a trial, the ease of its use captured my 'programming mind'. Hence, I am looking for a programming language that is fairly easy to understand in plain English ie If...Then..Else statements. I also know there are a plethora of languages out there for both the Other OS and linux and I would prefer to get a language with the most bang for my free buck ie cross platform, but mainly linux, and fairly readable code. I am going to have to teach myself from odd books I can borrow. Having had a look at some JAVA code I decided it is not for me. Perhaps C, PHP,Perl are the answer. Can anyone point me to a resource comparing the different programming languages that has actual source code snippets? should I rather just concentrate on learning BASH scripting and get a job? appreciated -- The Little Helper ======================================================================== Hylton Conacher - Linux user # 229959 at http://counter.li.org Currently using SuSE 9.0 Professional with KDE 3.1 Licenced Windows user ========================================================================
Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
I have a fair bit of spare time on my hands at the moment, being unemployed, and I figured that I may as well put it to good use.
I opted to try and learn programming, having never programmed before. I did a very little of the BASIC programming lang AGES ago and whilst it was sometimes a trial, the ease of its use captured my 'programming mind'.
Hence, I am looking for a programming language that is fairly easy to understand in plain English ie If...Then..Else statements. I also know there are a plethora of languages out there for both the Other OS and linux and I would prefer to get a language with the most bang for my free buck ie cross platform, but mainly linux, and fairly readable code. I am going to have to teach myself from odd books I can borrow. Having had a look at some JAVA code I decided it is not for me. Perhaps C, PHP,Perl are the answer.
Can anyone point me to a resource comparing the different programming languages that has actual source code snippets?
should I rather just concentrate on learning BASH scripting and get a job?
appreciated
Being unemployed for some time myself, I admire your determination to learn. I have considerable experience in programming and would be happy to assist you, in this forum or offline. Feel free to write to me. The following are opinions; they are not absolute truths and are not intended as such. We all have preferences: If you didn't care for what you saw in Java, I doubt you would be comfortable in C either. I have very good C skills , and like it, but it's not terribly easy for beginners and especially a self-taught one. Perl is, I think, even more inscrutiable. I personally don't like writing it, although some wonderful application have been written in it and it has a large following. Python is a fun language. It makes sense to me. It is easy to read and write. AWK is a very useful language. Perhaps not always readable when you've done something, but it's easy to write utility programs that are useful.. The AWK distro comes with a very good manual/tutorial that is sufficient for anyone to learn the language. It gives clear examples for just about everything. Hope this helps you! -- Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! - See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. NOTE: Please do not email me any attachments with Microsoft extensions. They are deleted on my ISP's server before I ever see them, and no bounce message is sent.
If I had to do it again, I would start with C++. I think you'll find that learning C++ will translate to any other language you want to learn in the future. You can use c syntax You can use in-line assembly You can use powerfull widget sets (Qt, Gtk, etc.) and you'll find TONS of books, site, info.... Shoot, If you want to have fun right away, look for OpenGL tutorail sites. And make a game. B-) On Monday 21 June 2004 10:08 am, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
I have a fair bit of spare time on my hands at the moment, being unemployed, and I figured that I may as well put it to good use.
I opted to try and learn programming, having never programmed before. I did a very little of the BASIC programming lang AGES ago and whilst it was sometimes a trial, the ease of its use captured my 'programming mind'.
Hence, I am looking for a programming language that is fairly easy to understand in plain English ie If...Then..Else statements. I also know there are a plethora of languages out there for both the Other OS and linux and I would prefer to get a language with the most bang for my free buck ie cross platform, but mainly linux, and fairly readable code. I am going to have to teach myself from odd books I can borrow. Having had a look at some JAVA code I decided it is not for me. Perhaps C, PHP,Perl are the answer.
Can anyone point me to a resource comparing the different programming languages that has actual source code snippets?
should I rather just concentrate on learning BASH scripting and get a job?
appreciated -- The Little Helper ======================================================================== Hylton Conacher - Linux user # 229959 at http://counter.li.org Currently using SuSE 9.0 Professional with KDE 3.1 Licenced Windows user ========================================================================
I think that, Java not being what you are looking for, that C, C++, C# and Perl would also not be to your liking. My suggestion would be to start with Python. A clear language that has a good object oriented foundation. It's getting used more and more in system adminstration and as scripting language. After that, I would try either Java or C#. Both are similar from a technical point of view. C# has, from what I hear, some advantages regarding easy of programming, but Java is catching up fast and will surpass them with the new 1.5 release (expected at the end of this year). I wish you the best with your learning experiences and with searching for a good job. Oh yes, while you're at it, also try to learn something about databases and the SQL language. That will improve your chances on finding a job. Eric On Monday 21 June 2004 18:08, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
I have a fair bit of spare time on my hands at the moment, being unemployed, and I figured that I may as well put it to good use.
I opted to try and learn programming, having never programmed before. I did a very little of the BASIC programming lang AGES ago and whilst it was sometimes a trial, the ease of its use captured my 'programming mind'.
Hence, I am looking for a programming language that is fairly easy to understand in plain English ie If...Then..Else statements. I also know there are a plethora of languages out there for both the Other OS and linux and I would prefer to get a language with the most bang for my free buck ie cross platform, but mainly linux, and fairly readable code. I am going to have to teach myself from odd books I can borrow. Having had a look at some JAVA code I decided it is not for me. Perhaps C, PHP,Perl are the answer.
Can anyone point me to a resource comparing the different programming languages that has actual source code snippets?
should I rather just concentrate on learning BASH scripting and get a job?
appreciated -- The Little Helper ======================================================================== Hylton Conacher - Linux user # 229959 at http://counter.li.org Currently using SuSE 9.0 Professional with KDE 3.1 Licenced Windows user ========================================================================
On Monday 21 June 2004 03:47 pm, Eric Seynaeve wrote:
I think that, Java not being what you are looking for, that C, C++, C# and Perl would also not be to your liking.
My suggestion would be to start with Python. A clear language that has a good object oriented foundation. It's getting used more and more in system adminstration and as scripting language.
I would second this.... I (over the years) have done a lot of languages including various assemblers, C and some java. I started in on perl but found that, although it wasn't particularly hard to learn, the language itself is full of weird conventions and is a bit strange when compared to languages I am used to. I finally selected python as "the one to learn" and I'm working at that. But I think one *big* advantage of a language like perl or python is that they are interpretive languages. Since you don't seem to want to go out and write the next database program, an interpretive language will allow you easy debugging, quick turnaround for changes you make, and most likely more comprehensive error messages when something goes wrong. However, computing langaguages are somewhat like editors, they tend to be a religious subject and people will probably dispute much of what I have said above. Also remember that a programming language is like a tool, and you need to pick the best tool for the job. You wouldn't write a serious database program using python, and you wouldn't write a simple shell script using C#. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 06/21/04 16:17 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "Sorry, I don't date outside my species."
The Monday 2004-06-21 at 16:22 -0400, Bruce Marshall wrote:
However, computing langaguages are somewhat like editors, they tend to be a religious subject and people will probably dispute much of what I have said above.
:-) I tend to agree with most of what every body has said - but in order to add a bit of salt, I'll mention that Pascal was once a very good language for learning. I will not argue whether it is a good program to "use" nowdays, that's a different question - but I still think it is good for learning O:-) On the other hand, I "think" Basic is not [good for learning]; however, a lot of good programs and developing has been done with it: for example, by non computer trained people, but good professionals on their own fields, that expanded the use of computers for new tasks tremendously.
Also remember that a programming language is like a tool, and you need to pick the best tool for the job. You wouldn't write a serious database program using python, and you wouldn't write a simple shell script using C#.
Exactly. Some languages tend to be better for certain tasks than others, and viceversa. -- Cheers, Carlos Robinson
On Monday 21 Jun 2004 17:08, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
I have a fair bit of spare time on my hands at the moment, being unemployed, and I figured that I may as well put it to good use.
I opted to try and learn programming, having never programmed before. I did a very little of the BASIC programming lang AGES ago and whilst it was sometimes a trial, the ease of its use captured my 'programming mind'.
SNIP<<<<
Some time ago, I saw that there was a Linux equivalent of Visual Basic being developed. If I remember correctly, it was called XBasic. I have no idea if it is still around or, if it is, what it is like to use or what its development state is. If you liked BASIC programing, you may like to check this one out. This, of course, is if you want to learn more BASIC programing for your own satisfaction and not for increasing job prospects. Good luck with getting a job soon. Cheers Keith
...
I opted to try and learn programming, having never programmed before. I did a very little of the BASIC programming lang AGES ago and whilst it was sometimes a trial, the ease of its use captured my 'programming mind'. ...
The following might also help: Gambas : http://gambas.sourceforge.net/ HBasic : http://hbasic.sourceforge.net/ Rudolf
I still say go with c++/Qt. It is very easy to make a gui program right off the bat. You can keep it as simple or as comlex as you want. B-) On Tuesday 22 June 2004 03:06 am, Keith Powell wrote:
On Monday 21 Jun 2004 17:08, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
I have a fair bit of spare time on my hands at the moment, being unemployed, and I figured that I may as well put it to good use.
I opted to try and learn programming, having never programmed before. I did a very little of the BASIC programming lang AGES ago and whilst it was sometimes a trial, the ease of its use captured my 'programming mind'.
SNIP<<<<
Some time ago, I saw that there was a Linux equivalent of Visual Basic being developed. If I remember correctly, it was called XBasic. I have no idea if it is still around or, if it is, what it is like to use or what its development state is.
If you liked BASIC programing, you may like to check this one out.
This, of course, is if you want to learn more BASIC programing for your own satisfaction and not for increasing job prospects.
Good luck with getting a job soon.
Cheers
Keith
On Tuesday 22 June 2004 15:06, Brad Bourn wrote:
I still say go with c++/Qt.
It is very easy to make a gui program right off the bat.
You can keep it as simple or as comlex as you want.
B-)
Or alternatively with suse 9.1 install python, qt designer and eric3 with YaST. It's insanely easy to get a gui going, and the code is going to be way way way way way easier for a novice to grok. Sure, 6 months down the line graduating to C++ might be feasible, but C++ as a first self taught language? Please!
On Tuesday 22 June 2004 03:06 am, Keith Powell wrote:
On Monday 21 Jun 2004 17:08, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
I have a fair bit of spare time on my hands at the moment, being unemployed, and I figured that I may as well put it to good use.
I opted to try and learn programming, having never programmed before. I did a very little of the BASIC programming lang AGES ago and whilst it was sometimes a trial, the ease of its use captured my 'programming mind'.
SNIP<<<<
Some time ago, I saw that there was a Linux equivalent of Visual Basic being developed. If I remember correctly, it was called XBasic. I have no idea if it is still around or, if it is, what it is like to use or what its development state is.
If you liked BASIC programing, you may like to check this one out.
This, of course, is if you want to learn more BASIC programing for your own satisfaction and not for increasing job prospects.
Good luck with getting a job soon.
Cheers
Keith
-- Steve Boddy
On Tuesday 22 June 2004 04:38 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Tuesday 22 June 2004 15:06, Brad Bourn wrote:
I still say go with c++/Qt.
It is very easy to make a gui program right off the bat.
You can keep it as simple or as comlex as you want.
B-)
Or alternatively with suse 9.1 install python, qt designer and eric3 with YaST. It's insanely easy to get a gui going, and the code is going to be way way way way way easier for a novice to grok. Sure, 6 months down the line graduating to C++ might be feasible, but C++ as a first self taught language? Please!
You don't think so? it is as easy / hard as one wants to make it.... C++ is going to be the most common / standardized (especially if you KISS using ANSI only) I mean, we've all seen the "hello world" right? not too tough. One could argue that English is tough to learn because of all the exceptions to the rules, different words originating from different languages, etc. And on the other hand, One could argue that it is simple to learn, 26 letters, easy pronunciations, etc. bottom line make sure to keep it simple say "hi" instead of "good afternoon, mam, how are you today" so, if YOU are going to keep it simple, then there is nothing wrong with C++. and as you grow into it, it will continue to be able to do whatever you want. B-)
On Tuesday 22 June 2004 03:06 am, Keith Powell wrote:
On Monday 21 Jun 2004 17:08, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
I have a fair bit of spare time on my hands at the moment, being unemployed, and I figured that I may as well put it to good use.
I opted to try and learn programming, having never programmed before. I did a very little of the BASIC programming lang AGES ago and whilst it was sometimes a trial, the ease of its use captured my 'programming mind'.
>SNIP<<<<
Some time ago, I saw that there was a Linux equivalent of Visual Basic being developed. If I remember correctly, it was called XBasic. I have no idea if it is still around or, if it is, what it is like to use or what its development state is.
If you liked BASIC programing, you may like to check this one out.
This, of course, is if you want to learn more BASIC programing for your own satisfaction and not for increasing job prospects.
Good luck with getting a job soon.
Cheers
Keith
-- Steve Boddy
onsdag 23 juni 2004 01:02 skrev Brad Bourn:
bottom line make sure to keep it simple say "hi" instead of "good afternoon, mam, how are you today"
so, if YOU are going to keep it simple, then there is nothing wrong with C++.
and as you grow into it, it will continue to be able to do whatever you want.
It comes down to, what you consider to be programming. I was looking at job offers a week or so ago. The personel, wanted applicants to "solve" programming puzzles, in C++ ... but the ones who created those "puzzles" didn't know the difference between C and C++, nor the basics of object orientation. The KISS rule, is often a good rule ... and often it is not. It always depends on what you want to accomplish. Years ago, there was this rule that all programmers had to be mathematicians ... but they made worse programers, than philosophers. Then, all programmers had to be painters (design good pictures), but they couldn't solve a complex problem worth a dime... but they looked good. And then it's a question of what is considered simple. I was faced with a puzzle once, the desired solution was in itself very simple ... but actually quite lengthy in implementation, involved a lot of programming although the programming was straight forward. The "correct" solution, was actually not that simple ... quite complex, although not deeply mathematical. But extremely simple in implementation. And that's quite often the case in programming, the seemingly "simple" solutions bring about a very big and long programs, that often are hard to track. While the seemingly "complex" solutions, result in shorter programs, greater efficiency and stability. Sticking to a specific language, is an indicator of poor ability... a programming language, is a tool. You don't use one tool, for all your work ... you select the tool, that best serves the problem. If you had a handiman around, who only could handle a drilling machine ... you'd hardly hire him to man a saw. But construction, usually requires every tool in the toolbox ... not just a hammer.
On Wednesday 23 June 2004 00:02, Brad Bourn wrote:
On Tuesday 22 June 2004 04:38 pm, Stephen Boddy wrote:
On Tuesday 22 June 2004 15:06, Brad Bourn wrote:
I still say go with c++/Qt.
It is very easy to make a gui program right off the bat.
You can keep it as simple or as comlex as you want.
B-)
Or alternatively with suse 9.1 install python, qt designer and eric3 with YaST. It's insanely easy to get a gui going, and the code is going to be way way way way way easier for a novice to grok. Sure, 6 months down the line graduating to C++ might be feasible, but C++ as a first self taught language? Please!
You don't think so? it is as easy / hard as one wants to make it.... C++ is going to be the most common / standardized (especially if you KISS using ANSI only)
I mean, we've all seen the "hello world" right?
not too tough.
Now do "hello world" in a derived class of a Qt widget. Same program, but an order of magnitude more complex in both code and concepts. The point is the OP should be learning the concepts of programming in the most efficient way, whilst enjoying the process. Eric S. Raymond said that the great thing about python was that the language had a "low coefficient of friction". Someone learning programming has enough abstract concepts to get their head around (OOP/OOD, flow control, inheritance, polymorphism, templates, mix-ins, threading, generators, exceptions etc. etc. etc.) without the language adding to the mental overhead.
One could argue that English is tough to learn because of all the exceptions to the rules, different words originating from different languages, etc.
And on the other hand, One could argue that it is simple to learn, 26 letters, easy pronunciations, etc.
bottom line make sure to keep it simple say "hi" instead of "good afternoon, mam, how are you today"
so, if YOU are going to keep it simple, then there is nothing wrong with C++.
and as you grow into it, it will continue to be able to do whatever you want.
At the end of the day Brad, I'm not arguing that C++ is a good language, feature rich, flexible, and fast. But I do doubt it's value as a beginners language. There's a reason for languages like BASIC, python and others. They are there to introduce the concepts, and ease a novice into programming. Let them do something that does something useful that works, gives them rapid and frequent "feel good" moments of achievement. Here's a thought experiment. 100 novices learn C++. 100 novices learn python. In a year how many of each group still program in any language? And even more pertinent, how many of each group threw in the towel early? -- Steve Boddy
Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
I have a fair bit of spare time on my hands at the moment, being unemployed, and I figured that I may as well put it to good use. [snip]...
Thank you for all the replies I got to this question. considering my much earlier interest in programming tended to the Delphi side, and that is why I have a couple of Delphi Dummies books, I think I'll possibly venture slowly toward Python. Of course learning Pascal would have to come first and and and. Oh bugger it. I have enough to learn with working my linux box, getting a MySQL database and mail server and offline browser capability setup. Thanks for all the suggestions, but the ideal has been dropped due to lack of requirements. Asides I am a networking person not a programmer! -- The Little Helper ======================================================================== Hylton Conacher - Linux user # 229959 at http://counter.li.org Currently using SuSE 9.0 Professional with KDE 3.1 Licenced Windows user ========================================================================
participants (10)
-
Brad Bourn
-
Bruce Marshall
-
Carlos E. R.
-
Eric Seynaeve
-
Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC)
-
Jim Sabatke
-
Keith Powell
-
Rudolf Schnetler
-
Stephen Boddy
-
Örn Hansen