Larry Stotler wrote:

On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 4:25 PM, David C. Rankin wrote:

...

All of these cards can be picked up for less than $40 except for the 8600. Check gearsxs.com, ebay or pricewatch or pricegrabber. gearsxs and ebay tend to be the best for video cards. GearsXs often runs specials for NEW OEM cards in the $35 range.

gearsxs.com is a parked site. I THINK you meant gearxs.com.

BTW, I happen to like my crappy 6200. Cheap, but better than onboard(which my gigabyte board lacks anyway). :-)

Yes, Thank you larry. I did mean gearxs.com. Also, I don't mean to say the other cards won't work, they will. The only issue with them is performance. The nVidia chipset marketing was extremely deceptive in their version and release numbering. Many of the later cards were touted as faster, better, etc. However, when you look at the shrinking number of quality capacitors, and the shrinking core clock rate and memory clock rate along with the use of a narrower memory interface, you start to understand that the later cards in the ranges I set out were actually only really good for nVidia and card makers and not so good for consumers.... The cards were going through a "cheapening" process and it wasn't until you get to the 7800 series that you actually see performance come back to where it was with the 5900 Ultra. Take a look at the stellar specs of the 8400 chipset for instance. It is out performed by the GeForce 4 MX 440. The memory bandwidth is an actual real-world measure that is closely confirmed by the frame rates from glxgears. The letters game is also interesting to note. XT cards from ATI are the top-of-the-line series (not including specialty PE, GTO and other non-standards) while with nVidia, XT is bottom of the heap. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin wrote:

Joop Beris wrote:

...

Hello list-mates,

Since I am slowly beginning to consider buying a new machine (see another thread), but haven't done so in a while, I am not really up to speed with graphics adapters. My current machine has an NVidia FX5200, which is an okay budget card. But the performance isn't exactly stellar and of course it is quite dated.

So what I am looking for is some feedback on which current graphics cards are, in this order of importance: a) best supported under openSUSE/Linux b) have great performance and deliver jaw-dropping graphics :-) c) do not cost an arm and a leg, or my first-born

I don't mind so much loading a proprietary driver, but if it can be avoided, that would be nice.

Hope to hear some thoughts/experiences.

Joop

Joop,

Before you buy, check ATI and nVidia chipset specs. at:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/131 http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/132

As long as you stay with either ATI (9600 and newer) and nVidia 5900FX and newer (but watch out the 6200-6600, 7100-7600 and 8400 cards, they suck) you will be fine.

My favorites for the price:

Radeon:

X800XT (or PE or GTO) 9800XT 1650XT (or PRO - Do NOT by HIS)

nVidia:

5700 Ultra (if found for $20) 5900 Ultra 5950 Ultra 6800 Ultra (or GS or GT) 7800 (any series) 8600 or newer (any series)

All of these cards can be picked up for less than $40 except for the 8600. Check gearsxs.com, ebay or pricewatch or pricegrabber. gearsxs and ebay tend to be the best for video cards. GearsXs often runs specials for NEW OEM cards in the $35 range.

Hi David, I've read your graphic card recommendations, I own a GeForce Go 7600, can you tell me which are the issues with this card? is there a website or an article to read about it? Thank in advance -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 16 November 2008 01:01:25 am David C. Rankin wrote: A lot of usefull stuff.

So how do I find the Memory Transfer Rate (or memory bandwidth) to make a reasonably comparison? A simple calculation using the three parts of the graphics card identified above is all that is required:

MC = Memory Clock Rate (MHz) Mint = Memory Interface (Bits) MTR = Memory Transfer Rate (GB/sec)

where:

MTR = ( MC * MInt )/8 [...]

Quick Reference:

ATI http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/131 NVida http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/132

More Detailed:

BOTH http://www.ultimatehardware.net/video.htm BOTH http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=88&pgno=0

So compare and become a more educated consumer...

I use in some way product of MC and Mint, but it is really simple way to see video card potential. Other components can make it real performance, or just leave it as a potential, but no other fine tuning can make it faster than theoretical maximum defined by MTR. How about making this mail part of the wiki? If you don't have a time, I'll do it with your permission. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin wrote:

Fernando Costa wrote:

...

David C. Rankin wrote:

...

Joop Beris wrote:

...

Hello list-mates,

Since I am slowly beginning to consider buying a new machine (see another thread), but haven't done so in a while, I am not really up to speed with graphics adapters. My current machine has an NVidia FX5200, which is an okay budget card. But the performance isn't exactly stellar and of course it is quite dated.

So what I am looking for is some feedback on which current graphics cards are, in this order of importance: a) best supported under openSUSE/Linux b) have great performance and deliver jaw-dropping graphics :-) c) do not cost an arm and a leg, or my first-born

I don't mind so much loading a proprietary driver, but if it can be avoided, that would be nice.

Hope to hear some thoughts/experiences.

Joop

Joop,

Before you buy, check ATI and nVidia chipset specs. at:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/131 http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/132

As long as you stay with either ATI (9600 and newer) and nVidia 5900FX and newer (but watch out the 6200-6600, 7100-7600 and 8400 cards, they suck) you will be fine.

My favorites for the price:

Radeon:

X800XT (or PE or GTO) 9800XT 1650XT (or PRO - Do NOT by HIS)

nVidia:

5700 Ultra (if found for $20) 5900 Ultra 5950 Ultra 6800 Ultra (or GS or GT) 7800 (any series) 8600 or newer (any series)

All of these cards can be picked up for less than $40 except for the 8600. Check gearsxs.com, ebay or pricewatch or pricegrabber. gearsxs and ebay tend to be the best for video cards. GearsXs often runs specials for NEW OEM cards in the $35 range.

Hi David,

I've read your graphic card recommendations, I own a GeForce Go 7600, can you tell me which are the issues with this card? is there a website or an article to read about it?

Thank in advance

Fernando,

Sorry for the late reply. There are no usability issues with the 7600, it works fine. The only issue is a performance issue meaning the card is slow compared to a lot of older nvidia cards. It comes down to (among other things) memory transfer rate which is a good real-world measure of relative card performance and indicates very well what type of comparative frame rates you might expect to receive from games, etc. It isn't the only measure, but it is a good measure to use for video card comparisons when you are looking to buy another card.

OK, you want the full-sh_Bang! Here's a reasonable howto.

Graphics Card Comparison - HowTo

So you want to buy a new Graphics card, but you aren't sure how to compare the performance of the cards to tell which card to get? Very good question.

So how do you compare the performance of different video cards when you are in the market to buy? -> Memory Transfer Rate (or memory bandwidth).

You will not find many sellers that provide the memory transfer rate for their cards anymore. It's a shame. Manufacturers used to give you all the stats so you could easily make this comparison simply by looking at the box. But the recent crop of business and marketing MBA's have become increasingy deceptive in both their manufacturing and sales practices hoping to dupe you into paying more money for the latest graphics card thinking it will be faster than the cards they made last year, or five years ago for all practical purposes. Truth is you can probably buy a $25 card of ebay that is faster than a bulk of the cards on the market today. Now obviously the top-end cards of today are faster than the top-end cards last year ... but top-end cards make up only a small part of what gets sold.

So what makes a graphics card run and how do I compare? For basic discussion, a graphics card has less than a handful of parts. It has (1) a graphics processing unit (GPU or XXX series chip) which runs at the 'core clock rate'; (2) video memory that can be accessed at the 'memory clock rate'; and (3) a 'memory interface' that allows communication between the GPU, and video memory. Of course this is oversimplified, you also have the RAMDAC, the shader clock, the display circuitry the video BIOS, bus architecture, etc..

So how do I find the Memory Transfer Rate (or memory bandwidth) to make a reasonably comparison? A simple calculation using the three parts of the graphics card identified above is all that is required:

MC = Memory Clock Rate (MHz) Mint = Memory Interface (Bits) MTR = Memory Transfer Rate (GB/sec)

where:

MTR = ( MC * MInt )/8

As you can see the Memory Clock rate (MC) and the Memory Interface (MInt) are critical to the actual memory transfer rate of the video card. You can't buy a 128-Bit card and expect it to perform the same as a 256-Bit card with memory clock, etc.. The memory clock rate for a 128-Bit card would have to be _DOUBLE_ that of a 256-Bit card to perform the same. The following is a summary of a few NVida cards for illustration:

Card MC MInt MTR 5700 Ultra 900MHz 128-Bit 14.4 GB/sec 5900 Ultra 850MHz 256-Bit 27.2 GB/sec 7300GT 667MHz 128-Bit 10.6 GB/sec 7600GS 800MHz 128-Bit 12.8 GB/sec 7800GS 1.2 GHz 256-Bit 38.4 GB/sec

So where can I go to find the specs for my card? You're in luck, there are many great references on the internet that detail the specs for just about any card you may run across. A few of my favorites for quick reference are:

Quick Reference:

ATI http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/131 NVida http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/132

More Detailed:

BOTH http://www.ultimatehardware.net/video.htm BOTH http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=88&pgno=0

So compare and become a more educated consumer...

thanks for your answer David, I'm much clear about it now. Regards, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org