[opensuse] Why do we need so many desktop search engines?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, KDE now has baloo. Gnome has tracker. There were previous attempts, all failed. I have little faith in the current attempts. Why can not we have a global and unique search engine, accessible from all desktops "brands"? Not one per desktop, increasing used resources tremendously. One that we can enabled or disabled easily (opt-in, not opt-out), tunable, with permission access, etc. And that it works. For instance, I want email search. Thunderbird has one, working togetehr with tracker, I think. Awful. I had to disable it. Could not find things, and wanted to index remote imap accounts, causing huge internet trasnfers, and huge CPU loads. Now I use dovecot internal indexing (lucene) and works fine accessed from Thunderbird. Used space is large but reasonable, and does not attempt to index remote mailboxes. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlNlDoIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W1wQCeMIK4yhPsHCePJvrfjTbmBS+5 5XEAoJdb3VFcjIljyCdKLTyk/3WTsJUu =4lIQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 3 May 2014 17:42:48 +0200 (CEST) "Carlos E. R." <carlos.e.r@opensuse.org> wrote:
Why can not we have a global and unique search engine, accessible from all desktops "brands"? Not one per desktop, increasing used resources tremendously. One that we can enabled or disabled easily (opt-in, not opt-out), tunable, with permission access, etc.
And that it works.
htdig seems to be general enough for local global indexing, although it tends to return everything and then some for a search query. It is rather flexible and can, given appropriate permissions, index entire disks. One of the problems with it is that there are no privacy or privilege controls. For example. anyone with access can search your mail and private files if htdig has indexed them. I stopped using it only because the query method is too dumb and simple, returning far too many results to be useful. If there were a better query engine for it, I'd use it again. [peeve] Tracker, etc., are reinventing the wheel while ignoring and not improving what wheels already exist. There's far too much of that going on and the wheels produced are no better than the ones before. And this is not just in search/indexing utils. So many utils already exist that could be reused, improved or have a graphical front end made for them without going to all the trouble of doing them over. When I needed a date function that the ANSI & K&R C date libraries did not have, I did not go about creating a completely new function from scratch. I modified the standard library. Turned out that was a whole lot easier than making a new one, just a few lines more, building on already existing functions, rather than 50+ for a more complicated one from scratch. And apparently it was useful enough that it is still in the standard library. Without crediting me, of course, but who cares about that. [/peeve] jd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
KDE now has baloo. Gnome has tracker. There were previous attempts, all failed. I have little faith in the current attempts. Why can not we have a global and unique search engine, accessible from all desktops "brands"? Not one per desktop, increasing used resources tremendously. One that we can enabled or disabled easily (opt-in, not opt-out), tunable, with permission access, etc. And that it works.
I think that was the point of all the different engines? I don't any of them started off thinking they'd only be usable-by-desktop, but were hoping to be good enough to be adopted by all. We obviously need more desktop search engines, as you are satisfied with any of the current ones -- or is there one you'd want to replace the others? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Linda Walsh wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
We obviously need more desktop search engines, as you are ^^NOT satisfied with any of the current ones -- or is there one you'd want to replace the others?
--- (just a word...)
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On 2014-05-06 02:24, Linda Walsh wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I don't any of them started off thinking they'd only be usable-by-desktop, but were hoping to be good enough to be adopted by all.
That can only happen if they run as a global service, configured by Mr Root, with his knowledge and permission, and without using libraries from any desktop, but providing hooks to be used by any. The desktop would only need to provide clients, and per user config (like no, I do not want my home indexed).
We obviously need more desktop search engines, as you are not satisfied with any of the current ones -- or is there one you'd want to replace the others?
No... I expect the current incarnations to be dumped in time, and replaced with a different one. Such is life. As it is, I have seen no desktop search thing capable of indexing my email successfully, for instance. And, as I use several desktops, my data is indexed several times, if I allow them all to run. I want opt-in desktop search, that works. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 5/5/2014 5:59 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That can only happen if they run as a global service, configured by Mr Root, with his knowledge and permission, and without using libraries from any desktop, but providing hooks to be used by any. The desktop would only need to provide clients, and per user config (like no, I do not want my home indexed).
Dammit Carlos, be quiet. Those SystemD guys have their meat hooks into too much of Linux already, no point in giving them any more ideas. - -- _____________________________________ - ---This space for rent--- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iEUEARECAAYFAlNoNcQACgkQv7M3G5+2DLLwWwCfdxkUvCm5HSi5iZ/pxSVqjM3u cgEAmLoNmlb/+e0+6zIOGrPOPvei2mw= =PMG4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-06 03:07, John Andersen wrote:
On 5/5/2014 5:59 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That can only happen if they run as a global service, configured by Mr Root, with his knowledge and permission, and without using libraries from any desktop, but providing hooks to be used by any. The desktop would only need to provide clients, and per user config (like no, I do not want my home indexed).
Dammit Carlos, be quiet. Those SystemD guys have their meat hooks into too much of Linux already, no point in giving them any more ideas.
ROTFL!!! X'-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Tuesday 06 May 2014, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-05-06 03:07, John Andersen wrote:
On 5/5/2014 5:59 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
That can only happen if they run as a global service, configured by Mr Root, with his knowledge and permission, and without using libraries from any desktop, but providing hooks to be used by any. The desktop would only need to provide clients, and per user config (like no, I do not want my home indexed).
Dammit Carlos, be quiet. Those SystemD guys have their meat hooks into too much of Linux already, no point in giving them any more ideas.
ROTFL!!! X'-)
After gnome has been merged into systemd there will be no other other desktop anyway. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/05/2014 08:59 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-05-06 02:24, Linda Walsh wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
I don't any of them started off thinking they'd only be usable-by-desktop, but were hoping to be good enough to be adopted by all.
That can only happen if they run as a global service, configured by Mr Root, with his knowledge and permission, and without using libraries from any desktop, but providing hooks to be used by any. The desktop would only need to provide clients, and per user config (like no, I do not want my home indexed).
No, doens't make sense. Only need one just like I only need one browser - firefox - regardless of whether I use KDE, LXDE, E17. Whichever I use it starts "Indexer_X" . maybe if SWSBO logs in she uses "Indexer_Y" but it only starts if _she_ logs in. Since its _her_ indexer of choice. But don't need it as a global/root service common to all like Postfix. -- The ability to learn faster than your competitors may be the only sustainable competitive advatage. -- Arie De Geus, Planning Coordinator Royal Dutch Shell -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-06 04:56, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 05/05/2014 08:59 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-05-06 02:24, Linda Walsh wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
No, doens't make sense.
Only need one just like I only need one browser - firefox - regardless of whether I use KDE, LXDE, E17.
Whichever I use it starts "Indexer_X" .
maybe if SWSBO logs in she uses "Indexer_Y" but it only starts if _she_ logs in. Since its _her_ indexer of choice.
But don't need it as a global/root service common to all like Postfix.
It does, if you have several simultaneous users, as running an indexer affects all adversely. Then, no desktop has got it right yet. They have to analyze many different file types, do it right, and have several teams attempting and failing at the same things over and over. Like the KDE people designing a module to analyze PDFs, then the Gnome people designing a module to analyze PDFs. Then we have the KDE designing a module to analyze OO calc sheets, and then we have the KDE designing a module to analyze OO calc sheets all over again. Then email, then... And not all the interesting files are on home, or of interest to a single user. Then, people like me, using several desktops with the same user, get double index engines. Have competing teams, variety, choice? Sure. As long as I can choose any of the possible search engines with any desktop. Not having a search engine tied to each desktop. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 05/05/2014 08:24 PM, Linda Walsh wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
KDE now has baloo. Gnome has tracker. There were previous attempts, all failed. I have little faith in the current attempts. Why can not we have a global and unique search engine, accessible from all desktops "brands"? Not one per desktop, increasing used resources tremendously. One that we can enabled or disabled easily (opt-in, not opt-out), tunable, with permission access, etc. And that it works.
I think that was the point of all the different engines?
I don't any of them started off thinking they'd only be usable-by-desktop, but were hoping to be good enough to be adopted by all.
We obviously need more desktop search engines, as you are satisfied with any of the current ones -- or is there one you'd want to replace the others?
+1 The whole point of the UNIX/Linux/FOSS movement is abut alternatives. We have alternative editors, alternative browsers, alternative MUA and MTA, alternative file systems, alternative kernel schedulers, can use alternative CPUS and graphics cards. SO having an alternative - plugin - search engine makes sense to me. Some people tell me its not a good idea but I'm glad somoene else things we need alternatives :-) -- We must believe in free will. We have no choice. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 06/05/2014 02:24, Linda Walsh a écrit :
We obviously need more desktop search engines, as you are satisfied with any of the current ones -- or is there one you'd want to replace the others?
updatedb/locate? jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-06 08:07, jdd wrote:
Le 06/05/2014 02:24, Linda Walsh a écrit :
We obviously need more desktop search engines, as you are satisfied with any of the current ones -- or is there one you'd want to replace the others?
updatedb/locate?
Rather the new mlocate variant. But it is not a content indexer. Yes, that's the thing I propose, improved. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Tuesday 06 May 2014, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-05-06 08:07, jdd wrote:
Le 06/05/2014 02:24, Linda Walsh a écrit :
We obviously need more desktop search engines, as you are satisfied with any of the current ones -- or is there one you'd want to replace the others?
updatedb/locate?
Rather the new mlocate variant. But it is not a content indexer.
Yes, that's the thing I propose, improved.
Have you tried recoll? A colleague here is using it to index our global installed e-books and papers. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Why do we need desktop search engines at all? Seriously, what happened to own intelligence and creating a folder-structure in which we find our stuff? I also don't need a search engine for my physical desktop - or office or apartment for that matter? Especially with "cloud integration" that's just another privacy invasion. -S -- (o_ Stefan Gofferje | SCLT, MCP, CCSA //\ Reg'd Linux User #247167 | VCP #2263 V_/_ Heckler & Koch - the original point and click interface
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-05-06 11:45, Stefan Gofferje wrote: That's why I say they should be under the control of the administrator, and opt-in, not opt-out. Thus people that want it, install and activate them, and people who don't, well, they don't. Everybody happy! - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlNosjQACgkQja8UbcUWM1yv5QD/UMurNwa6k1hpwIuBq5n5Ls7j ngAXDxsEdDKkxmJf3xwA/0YLMSmy6dODL93JG/VEpN89AXuvS4d1hx/CGsqh1l3b =vIlh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 06 May 2014 12:45:34 Stefan Gofferje wrote:
Why do we need desktop search engines at all? Seriously, what happened to own intelligence and creating a folder-structure in which we find our stuff?
It simply does not scale. Ever more stuff against constant or even degrading intelligence.
I also don't need a search engine for my physical desktop - or office or apartment for that matter
You don't? Lucky you. I would love it.
Especially with "cloud integration" that's just another privacy invasion.
Now, that is a totally different thing. I see no immediate connection. Regards mararm -- Some marriages are made in heaven -- but so are thunder and lightning. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 5/6/2014 2:45 AM, Stefan Gofferje wrote:
Why do we need desktop search engines at all? Seriously, what happened to own intelligence and creating a folder-structure in which we find our stuff?
The only reason you ask this question is because you don't understand the difference between file search and content search. Or maybe you don't have that much to search. I use content search to maintain source code for several large systems. When I need to make a change to a data structure Content search will tell me the name of every module it is used in, and it will do so in less than a second. Without having to read through the entire mountain of source code. The same for email and a boat load of documents, (orders and shipping records some saved as PDFs others as word processor documents, still others as text. Again the search is instant, because every word is already indexed. The more you have the better it works. Its like Google for your desktop, but faster. -- _____________________________________ ---This space for rent--- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
jdd -
jdebert -
John Andersen -
Linda Walsh -
mararm -
Ruediger Meier -
Stefan Gofferje