I'm sure this is just an honest mistake. ATI is kknow for supporting the "little guys" such as alternate OSs. al On Saturday 24 February 2001 04:04 pm, S.Toms wrote:

On Sat, 24 Feb 2001, Steven T. Hatton wrote:

sh> I tried to find the mail that pointed out ATI's site did not accept modern sh> OSS browsers. I didn't see it, but I'd like to thank the person who pointed sh> that out. I am shopping for an new graphics card and I have just taken ATI sh> off the list of options. If they make amends I'll be happy to add them back sh> to my list of options for my next system. sh>

You should probably mention this to ATI, maybe it's simply an over sight on there part. I've come across sites before that didn't appear to work, only to find out it was a simple mistake by the person who wrote the page during the browser version inquiry.

sh> Steve sh> sh>

On Saturday 24 February 2001 22:02, Philipp Thomas wrote:

* Steven T. Hatton [Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:42:00 -0500]:

...

I am shopping for an new graphics card and I have just taken ATI off the list of options.

Sorry for sounding rude, but you'll only hurt yourself. ATIs Radeon cards are currently the best 3D cards for Linux simply because ATI did supply specifications and so there is an open source driver for it, including DRI support in kernel 2.4.X.

Don't blame a company if their webaster (or whoever designs their web pages) made a booboo. The 'problem' with Netscape 6 and Mozilla is, that they don't support the non standard Features Netscape supported up 'till 4.7x. So webmasters/webdesigners have a hell of a job fixing up all their pages.

Once again, da yourself a favor and buy one of the Radeon variants (that is, if you want/need 3D).

Philipp Thomas

Philipp, Such the way with words, you. I'm glad I slept on this one. You hit a very sore point with me. Of course you had no way of knowing that, so I really shouldn't be angry. As I told the webmaster@ati.com, I have installed hundreds, if not thousands of ATI cards in my day. At this point I'm not looking for a new highend card so ATI isn't losing a Radeon sale because of the web page. I have a Rage 128 Fury w/32 Meg of RAM. I spent the better part of this month trying to get it configured so that my X did not spontaneously restart without warning. I emailed you internal folks regarding my...uh... experience. I finally got it fixed by carefully removing everything having to do with X using RPM and checking dependencies, etc., and then reinstalling both XFree86 3.x and 4.x. Part of the reason I had such a hard time of this was because there are conflicts between the GLX RPMs for 3.x and 4.x. I don't know what actually fixed the problem, I just know it went away - or so it seems. SaX2 did not work for me because it always over clocks my monitor. I had to resort to hacking the XF86Config by hand, as I have with just about every video card I have used on SuSE Linux - that is, in order to get optimum performance. OTOH, I simply install the software from CD and everything works under Windows NT/2000. There is far more Microsoft compatable software that can take advantage of the card than there is Linux software. If all I cared about was the best 3D graphics, I'd be booted into NT right now. I am willing to spend dozens, even hundreds of hours trying to get things to work with SuSE Linux which work out of the box with Microsoft OSs because I believe it is a morally superior option. I also like the challenge. I have stayed with SuSE because, by luck of the draw, I happened to grab the SuSE box rather than the RH box. I think the conscious reason was because SuSE's kernel was newer than RH's. <aside> Of course there is always what my Grand Mother Thomas used to tell me: "Honey they call the People in Pennsylvania Dutch, but they're really Deutsch, like me." My great grand father Thomas (Anglo-Celtic) died with his youngest son as POWs taken in Corregidor. http://home.pacbell.net/fbaldie/Death_March.html </aside> If someone were to ask me today why they should use SuSE Linux rather than RH or something else, I'd tell them, 'because it adheres to the LSB more closely than any other distribution.' When ATI adheres to the http://www.w3c.org I will remove my self-imposed injunction against buying their products. I probably won't be buying high-end equipment until the IA-64 is firmly in place. Steven Thomas Hatton

On Sunday 25 February 2001 19:42, Timothy R. Butler wrote:

Steven,

...

If someone were to ask me today why they should use SuSE Linux rather than

RH

...

or something else, I'd tell them, 'because it adheres to the LSB more

closely

...

than any other distribution.' When ATI adheres to the http://www.w3c.org

I

...

will remove my self-imposed injunction against buying their products. I probably won't be buying high-end equipment until the IA-64 is firmly in place.

As a web developer, I understand the problems ATI may have. It simply isn't easy to support _all_ browsers - including those with minute market share. And, if you stick to the w3c code, it doesn't look as nice to the majority of viewers that use MSIE. Simply put, it doesn't matter if it's "the best thing" to follow w3c code, it simply matters if it will make them more or less money. Mozilla's developers should have done like Konqueror's and added IE "deformed code" support - then there wouldn't be any problem...

-Tim

Tim, I could not disagree with this more passionately. This is exactly the problem with Microsoft. They destroy standards so they can eliminate competition. They have been found guilty of violating anti-trust laws in the way they established their market dominance of the web browser market. Through their vast financial resources and slick lawyers they have avoided the consequences of this judgement thus far. Before Microsoft dumped their product on the market, Netscape was the unquestioned leader in the browser market. It was the objective of Netscape to produce a platform independent suite of web client tools. When Microsoft caught wind of this they realized it threatened their monopoly over the desktop and purposefully moved to "cut off their [Netscape's] air supply" as Bill Gates put it. I believe there is a great deal at stake here in a political and social sense. Remember that it was the act of placing a tax and restriction upon the free availability of the primary medium of mass-communication which ignited the American Revolution. I absolutely refuse to allow one entity to control or charge me for my access to information. For the love of money is the root of all evil. -- 1 Timothy 6.10 Steve

Well, ATI doesn't seem to have anything against Open Source browsers. Konqueror 2.1 beta2 seems to work fine with www.ati.com. If ATI had something agains OS, it would have blocked it as well, wouldn't they. I'd suspect there is a bug in Mozilla which affects NS 6. What I'd rather see ATI do is display a message that the site might not work correctly with NS 6/Mozilla and let me in rather then displaying the current message. This way, if indeed there is a problem with Mozilla, we can file a but report and allow the developers fix the problem. Right now I cannot file a but report since I don't even get a chance to see what the problem is. Avi --On Sunday, February 25, 2001 02:27:07 PM -0800 Greg Thomas wrote:

On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Philipp Thomas wrote:

...

* Steven T. Hatton [Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:42:00 -0500]:

...

I am shopping for an new graphics card and I have just taken ATI off the list of options.

Sorry for sounding rude, but you'll only hurt yourself. ATIs Radeon cards are currently the best 3D cards for Linux simply because ATI did supply specifications and so there is an open source driver for it, including DRI support in kernel 2.4.X.

Don't blame a company if their webaster (or whoever designs their web pages) made a booboo. The 'problem' with Netscape 6 and Mozilla is, that they don't support the non standard Features Netscape supported up 'till 4.7x. So webmasters/webdesigners have a hell of a job fixing up all their pages.

Yep, our sites don't work with 6 and Mozilla even though we're using Javascript samples provided by Netscape.

Greg

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-- Avi Schwartz Get a Life, avi@CFFtechnologies.com Get Linux!

This is just funny as hell. Screw ATI..long live nVidia. => =>Interesting, my Konqueror puked on the site. I *am* using my own build, so =>the batch I have may be broken. ATI do display this message if the you hit =>the site with Mozilla: => -- Ben Rosenberg mailto:ben@whack.org -------------------- If two people agree completely then only one of them is doing the thinking.

Yep, our sites don't work with 6 and Mozilla even though we're using Javascript samples provided by Netscape.

Greg

Greg, What version of JavaScript? There are some differences between the original JavaScript and ECMA script. I will be the first to admit that inter-browser compatability is a PITA. I'm quite sure Microsoft is quite proud of that accomplishment. Steve