You're wrong. Suse Linux never came with binary Nvidia and/or ATI drivers. You always had to dowload them. There is _no_ change here.
I am not wrong (at least in the case of NVidia). On previous versions, a user could download and automatically install the Nvidia driver just by selecting a check box in YaST Online Update.
This was always the case. You always needed kernel-source to recompile the kernel modules after an update.
Actually, if a user installed the NVidia driver using the above method (YOU), a manual recompilation of the driver was NOT necessary. Read the first paragraph of the following How-To: http://www.suse.de/~sndirsch/nvidia-installer-HOWTO.html#3 The same happened with Smartlink and AVM binary drivers.
But now, you have the possibility to build a proper kmp module, which might work also after a kernel update.
The only certain things so far are: - The NVidia driver is more difficult to install in 10.1 than on 10.0. - A sysadmin has much more trouble managing workstations and servers (yes, servers too) because after each kernel security update he needs to recompile binary drivers that before he didn't need to worry about. - Lots of users will believe their laptop's modems don't work on Linux, even though their are Smartlink based. On previous SuSE versions the Smartlink driver was automatically installed and configured. I can't see any advantage for users in this Novell decision. If somebody can find one advantage, please show me. Mark -- ___________________________________________________ Play 100s of games for FREE! http://games.mail.com/
Am Samstag, 13. Mai 2006 21:04 schrieb Mark Hellman:
You're wrong. Suse Linux never came with binary Nvidia and/or ATI drivers. You always had to dowload them. There is _no_ change here.
I am not wrong (at least in the case of NVidia). On previous versions, a user could download and automatically install the Nvidia driver just by selecting a check box in YaST Online Update.
This was always the case. You always needed kernel-source to recompile the kernel modules after an update.
Actually, if a user installed the NVidia driver using the above method (YOU), a manual recompilation of the driver was NOT necessary. Read the first paragraph of the following How-To: http://www.suse.de/~sndirsch/nvidia-installer-HOWTO.html#3
The same happened with Smartlink and AVM binary drivers. Please do your homework before posting. AVM drivers were removed, yes. But smartlink drivers are still there.
But now, you have the possibility to build a proper kmp module, which might work also after a kernel update.
The only certain things so far are: - The NVidia driver is more difficult to install in 10.1 than on 10.0.
Perhaps. But now you at least know, what you are doing. It's more Linux-like, not Windows-like :-)
- A sysadmin has much more trouble managing workstations and servers (yes, servers too) because after each kernel security update he needs to recompile binary drivers that before he didn't need to worry about. Running binary drivers from ATI or Nvidia on servers seems a bad idea for me. But I guess we do not have the same definition of server.
- Lots of users will believe their laptop's modems don't work on Linux, even though their are Smartlink based. On previous SuSE versions the Smartlink driver was automatically installed and configured. See above.
I can't see any advantage for users in this Novell decision. If somebody can find one advantage, please show me. You mentioned Smartlink. They put the driver from kernel to userspace. So it already was a succesful decision in one case.
Of course you are right, that in 10.1 there is no advantage for _users_. But the whole story is more about the work of the kernel developers, debugging closed source drivers instead of writing open source ones etc. -- Üdvözlettel -- Mit freundlichen Grüssen, Marcel Hilzinger
Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Please do your homework before posting. AVM drivers were removed, yes. But smartlink drivers are still there.
I am afraid but, once again it seems to be you who needs to do homework... Open smartlink-softmodem-kmp-default-2.9.10_2.6.16.13_4-44.i586.rpm and you will see that only slusb.ko is there. The much more needed slamr.ko (because almost every laptop nowadays comes with this type of modems) has been removed.
Perhaps. But now you at least know, what you are doing. It's more Linux-like, not Windows-like :-)
Linux will never increase its desktop market share with that kind of mentality. That's for sure.
Running binary drivers from ATI or Nvidia on servers seems a bad idea for me. But I guess we do not have the same definition of server.
It's not graphics drivers. It's modems and ISDN cards drivers that are commonly needed on some servers (hylafax servers, for example). And with the AVM drivers removal, kernel security updates require manual intervention.
But the whole story is more about the work of the kernel developers, debugging closed source drivers instead of writing open source ones etc.
Kernel developers are not and never were supposed to debug closed source drivers. That is the responsability of the closed source drivers publishers. Period. We all thought this matter was solved years and years ago. It is very unfortunate that Novell took this step back without, at least, giving a clear justification to its users. Mark
Hi, On Sat, 13 May 2006, Mark Hellman wrote:
Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Linux will never increase its desktop market share with that kind of mentality. That's for sure.
It is a matter of principle. You (the "desktop market") simply have to respect that in the first place. Linux itself is a matter of principle. Market is important, but has to build upon the basic principles, not besides (away) from them. And SUSE/Novell will help those non-aware or non-respecting hardware vendors to "find in", offering the kmp interface and supporting every single vendor to adapt it.
Running binary drivers from ATI or Nvidia on servers seems a bad idea for me. But I guess we do not have the same definition of server.
It's not graphics drivers. It's modems and ISDN cards drivers that are commonly needed on some servers (hylafax servers, for example). And with the AVM drivers removal, kernel security updates require manual intervention.
This housewife-like granting is just wasted.
But the whole story is more about the work of the kernel developers, debugging closed source drivers instead of writing open source ones etc.
Kernel developers are not and never were supposed to debug closed source drivers. That is the responsability of the closed source drivers publishers. Period. We all thought this matter was solved years and years ago. It is very unfortunate that Novell took this step back without, at least, giving a clear justification to its users.
"Tainting", polluting the kernel and the system is the matter. I guess you have totally misunderstood the severity. Microsoft may "halloween" the protocols, but no commercial vendor the Linux kernel. And indeed, the market position of Novell gives the best chance to help'em all in. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org)
Mark Hellman wrote:
- A sysadmin has much more trouble managing workstations and servers (yes, servers too)
do you need opengl on servers??? standard modules works fine jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
participants (4)
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Eberhard Moenkeberg -
jdd -
Marcel Hilzinger -
Mark Hellman