[opensuse] Konsole disappearing

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Greg Freemyer

17 Nov 2014 17 Nov '14

13:17

Re: opensuse 13.2 I use konsole (kde's terminal app) a fair amount. At least twice my windows seem to have just disappeared. Is anyone else seeing this? I don't know what is triggering it. The last time, I noted I had just started Firefox and it seemed that when Firefox started, konsole died. The last time, I looked in ps -ef output for a long running app I had running and it wasn't there. Thus kde didn't just hide the windows, they died. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Anton Aylward

17 Nov 17 Nov

13:52

On 11/17/2014 08:17 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

Re: opensuse 13.2

I use konsole (kde's terminal app) a fair amount.

At least twice my windows seem to have just disappeared.

Is anyone else seeing this?

I don't know what is triggering it. The last time, I noted I had just started Firefox and it seemed that when Firefox started, konsole died.

The last time, I looked in ps -ef output for a long running app I had running and it wasn't there. Thus kde didn't just hide the windows, they died.

"obviously" - have you looked at the logs? Konsole has a number of start-up command line options (which can be in the config file!) One of then is to hold the session open even after it ends. Check the HELP for more details. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

14:51

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 11/17/2014 08:17 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...
Re: opensuse 13.2

I use konsole (kde's terminal app) a fair amount.

At least twice my windows seem to have just disappeared.

Is anyone else seeing this?

I don't know what is triggering it. The last time, I noted I had just started Firefox and it seemed that when Firefox started, konsole died.

The last time, I looked in ps -ef output for a long running app I had running and it wasn't there. Thus kde didn't just hide the windows, they died.

"obviously" - have you looked at the logs?

I missed that obvious one. sudo grep konsole /var/log/* shows nothing of interest Any other keyword you advise looking for. (It has been a couple days since the last event, so I don't recall the exact timing.)

...

Konsole has a number of start-up command line options (which can be in the config file!)

One of then is to hold the session open even after it ends.

Check the HELP for more details.

I assume you mean konsole --noclose. - I don't see any konsolerc docs. I how to I set --noclose to be default in the the config file. - What good will --noclose do me? Let me read on screen error messages? Thanks Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

15:23

On 11/17/2014 09:51 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Anton Aylward

...

...
"obviously" - have you looked at the logs?

I missed that obvious one.

sudo grep konsole /var/log/* shows nothing of interest

Any other keyword you advise looking for.

(It has been a couple days since the last event, so I don't recall the exact timing.)

...
Konsole has a number of start-up command line options (which can be in the config file!)

One of then is to hold the session open even after it ends.

Check the HELP for more details.

I assume you mean konsole --noclose.

Yes. For one.

...

- I don't see any konsolerc docs. I how to I set --noclose to be default in the the config file.

HA! I wish I knew! I run konsole with many tabs and I'm still trying to figure out how to start each tab with a different command! Xterm with its gazillion options was so much easier! (Cue: "Those were the days....")

...

- What good will --noclose do me? Let me read on screen error messages?

In absolute terms "I don't know". I've never had this or a similar problem so I don't know what messages to look for. If this were me I'd try starting Konsole from an xterm then start firefox and try that with various permutations, step and repeat while varying command lines options, then perhaps running Konsole under a debugger, watching for signals. There's a pile of TECHNIQUES to deal with situations you've never met _EXACTLY_ before. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

18:21

Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 11/17/2014 09:51 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Anton Aylward

...
...
"obviously" - have you looked at the logs?

I missed that obvious one.

sudo grep konsole /var/log/* shows nothing of interest

Any other keyword you advise looking for.

(It has been a couple days since the last event, so I don't recall the exact timing.)

...
Konsole has a number of start-up command line options (which can be in the config file!)

One of then is to hold the session open even after it ends.

Check the HELP for more details.

I assume you mean konsole --noclose.

Yes. For one.

...
- I don't see any konsolerc docs. I how to I set --noclose to be default in the the config file.

HA! I wish I knew!

I run konsole with many tabs and I'm still trying to figure out how to start each tab with a different command!

I used to have that set up, I remember asking the very same question a while back. I think Will Stephenson stepped in with an answer. This was on KDE3 though, AFAIR. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (7.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18:28

On 2014-11-17 19:21, Per Jessen wrote:

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I run konsole with many tabs and I'm still trying to figure out how to start each tab with a different command!

I used to have that set up, I remember asking the very same question a while back. I think Will Stephenson stepped in with an answer. This was on KDE3 though, AFAIR.

Try with "--tabs-from-file". With -e you can run only one command. I do it with gnome-terminal and xfce-terminal, but I have not tried with konsole. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Anton Aylward

19:15

On 11/17/2014 01:28 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2014-11-17 19:21, Per Jessen wrote:

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I run konsole with many tabs and I'm still trying to figure out how to start each tab with a different command!

I used to have that set up, I remember asking the very same question a while back. I think Will Stephenson stepped in with an answer. This was on KDE3 though, AFAIR.

Try with "--tabs-from-file". With -e you can run only one command.

I do it with gnome-terminal and xfce-terminal, but I have not tried with konsole.

That makes sense if I were to start it from a command line, I agree, What I'm trying to figure is how to start each tab with a different command WHEN I LOG IN and konsole starts automatically as part of my KDE startup, along with things on other Vts like Thunderbird in #1 and firefox is #2. There doesn't seem to be a rc file corresponding to this that I can find. The various profile descriptors, yes. State of the sessions at shutdown, yes. The tabs other than a CLI start where the file could be in ~/tmp or anywhere as you illustrate ... Another matter. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

jdd

19:41

Le 17/11/2014 20:15, Anton Aylward a écrit :

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That makes sense if I were to start it from a command line, I agree, What I'm trying to figure is how to start each tab with a different command WHEN I LOG IN and konsole starts automatically as part of my KDE startup, along with things on other Vts like Thunderbird in #1 and firefox is #2.

There doesn't seem to be a rc file corresponding to this that I can find.

system config / startup /automatic start / add a script?? jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

19:58

On 11/17/2014 02:41 PM, jdd wrote:

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Le 17/11/2014 20:15, Anton Aylward a écrit :

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That makes sense if I were to start it from a command line, I agree, What I'm trying to figure is how to start each tab with a different command WHEN I LOG IN and konsole starts automatically as part of my KDE startup, along with things on other Vts like Thunderbird in #1 and firefox is #2.

There doesn't seem to be a rc file corresponding to this that I can find.

system config / startup /automatic start / add a script??

that would work, but in the xterm world and I suspect other Dts there was a proper RC file. Other applications have proper rc files for how they are to start up. The "--tabs-from-file" CLI option show that Konsole _can_ do it. So why isn't it rc-capable? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18 Nov 18 Nov

00:38

On 2014-11-17 20:15, Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 11/17/2014 01:28 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Try with "--tabs-from-file". With -e you can run only one command.

I do it with gnome-terminal and xfce-terminal, but I have not tried with konsole.

That makes sense if I were to start it from a command line, I agree, What I'm trying to figure is how to start each tab with a different command WHEN I LOG IN and konsole starts automatically as part of my KDE startup, along with things on other Vts like Thunderbird in #1 and firefox is #2.

Well, with xfce-terminal, when I save the session, all those things are saved and restarted automatically on next login. I use this: #!/bin/bash # xfce variant xfce4-terminal \ --tab --command="/home/cer/bin/terminales_one /var/log/warn" --title="* Warn *" \ --tab --command="/home/cer/bin/terminales_one /var/log/messages" --title=messages \ --tab --command="/home/cer/bin/terminales_one /var/log/localmessages" --title=localmessages \ --tab --command="/home/cer/bin/terminales_one /var/log/mail.info" --title=mail.info \ --tab --command="/home/cer/bin/terminales_one /var/log/mail" --title=mail \ --tab --command="/home/cer/bin/terminales_one /var/log/firewall" --title=firewall \ --tab --command="/home/cer/bin/terminales_one /var/log/router" --title=router \ --geometry=238x28 \ --hide-menubar and "terminales_one" contains: #!/bin/bash # To be used from "terminales" # xfce variant while true ; do tailf -1000 $1 ; sleep 5 ; done which, as you can guess, it is just one terminal with several named tabs, each running a different "tailf" command on a different log. But it maybe anything. On gnome 2, I used this: #gnome-terminal \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title="Uno" --command "bash" \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=mail --command "tailf /var/log/mail" \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=mail.debug --command "tailf /var/log/mail.debug" \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=messages --command "tailf /var/log/messages" \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=localmessages --command "tailf /var/log/localmessages"\ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=warn --command "tailf /var/log/warn" \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=firewall --command "tailf /var/log/firewall" \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=router --command "tailf /var/log/router" \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=kernel --command "tailf /var/log/kernel" \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=xntpd --command "tailf /var/log/ntp" \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=Dos \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=Tres \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=Cuatro \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=Cinco \ # --tab-with-profile=small --title=Seis \ # & If I want to start it again, I just run "terminales" from alt-f2 prompt. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

John Andersen

17 Nov 17 Nov

18:15

On November 17, 2014 5:17:05 AM PST, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

Re: opensuse 13.2

I use konsole (kde's terminal app) a fair amount.

At least twice my windows seem to have just disappeared.

Is anyone else seeing this?

I don't know what is triggering it. The last time, I noted I had just started Firefox and it seemed that when Firefox started, konsole died.

The last time, I looked in ps -ef output for a long running app I had running and it wasn't there. Thus kde didn't just hide the windows, they died.

Greg --

I have not seen any misbehavior of konsole in 13.2. I don't routinely stare browser there, but I do start other stuff from konsole Windows, and I've not noticed any app taking down konsole when it crashed or terminated normally. If konsole were to crash you might find something in xsession errors. But i doubt you could grep /var/log/ (as you mentioned in another post) and find any useful info since logs are all binary due to systemd. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

18:25

Greg: I also wonder how you are starting each of Konsole and Firefox. I can see two ways and would be curious as to what happens in each. I have six VT set up. I start konsole in #4 and firefox in #2 from the Gecko menu. The order does not seem to matter. Al alternative way is to start konsole and then start firefox from a command line in a console tab. Oh, yes, a third way: start each from a xterm window. How do each of these methods turn out for you? -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

20:42

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Greg:

I also wonder how you are starting each of Konsole and Firefox.

I can see two ways and would be curious as to what happens in each.

I have six VT set up. I start konsole in #4 and firefox in #2 from the Gecko menu. The order does not seem to matter.

Al alternative way is to start konsole and then start firefox from a command line in a console tab.

Oh, yes, a third way: start each from a xterm window.

How do each of these methods turn out for you?

First, the die'ing of konsole has only happened twice that I can remember in weeks of using 13.2 beta/RC/gold. I always start konsole via alt-f2 - manually type konsole. (I know, menus are nice, but I rarely use them when I can just type instead.) I start firefox by clicking on the icon on the main VT. I rarely ever use any of the other VT screens. (I do use the virtual consoles routinely (cntrl-alt-F#), but those consoles have not died. It is just Konsole that has disappeared on me a couple times.) The last time it happened, I think I had 2 konsole windows going and 4 or 5 konsole tabs. All of it went away in a single stroke when I started firefox. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

21:12

On 11/17/2014 03:42 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Anton Aylward

...

...
How do each of these methods turn out for you?

First, the die'ing of konsole has only happened twice that I can remember in weeks of using 13.2 beta/RC/gold.

Hmm ... Beta .... Hmm...

...

I always start konsole via alt-f2 - manually type konsole. (I know, menus are nice, but I rarely use them when I can just type instead.)

I never ... Ok .. Later.

...

I start firefox by clicking on the icon on the main VT. I rarely ever use any of the other VT screens.

VT screen, yes ..

...

(I do use the virtual consoles routinely (cntrl-alt-F#), but those consoles have not died. It is just Konsole that has disappeared on me a couple times.)

What's with "VT **consoles**" ??? Are those the same as VT screens? The "OK later" is that I have six of them #1 is devoted to full screen thunderbird #2 is devoted to full screen firefox #3 is devoted to full screen konqueror file manager #4 is devoted to full screen Konsole with 4 tabs I *NEVER* start any of those from alt-f2 or from the geeko menu. I never need to. The come up when I log in and that KDE config is saved when I shut down. Sometimes I start things from the CLI in #4 and move them to #5 or #6.

...

The last time it happened, I think I had 2 konsole windows going and 4 or 5 konsole tabs. All of it went away in a single stroke when I started firefox.

Now "2 console windows" could mean two INSTANCES of the program Konsole. Or do you mean you had 2 VTs? What went away? I hope you mean you have 2 Vts with a single instance of the Konsole program running set with 5 tabs. Did you start the FF in the same VT? Can you replicate any of this in the current - non beta - version? If you can't then I would not worry about it. Beta is supposed to be ... "iffy". -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

22:09

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 11/17/2014 03:42 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Anton Aylward

...
...
How do each of these methods turn out for you?

First, the die'ing of konsole has only happened twice that I can remember in weeks of using 13.2 beta/RC/gold.

Hmm ... Beta .... Hmm...

The most recent occurrence was last Friday. I had been running Gold for a week at least at that point.

...

...
I always start konsole via alt-f2 - manually type konsole. (I know, menus are nice, but I rarely use them when I can just type instead.)

I never ... Ok .. Later.

I'm not in kindergarten, I get to decide if I use menus or not. :) "alt-f2 - type app name" is what I do in linux. In Windows, I do "windows-key - type app name" You should try it that way sometime. You don't even have to touch that strange thing they call a mouse.

...

...
I start firefox by clicking on the icon on the main VT. I rarely ever use any of the other VT screens.

VT screen, yes ..

...
(I do use the virtual consoles routinely (cntrl-alt-F#), but those consoles have not died. It is just Konsole that has disappeared on me a couple times.)

What's with "VT **consoles**" ??? Are those the same as VT screens?

Surely you know the old fashioned consoles. I believe they are formally called virtual consoles. No X or KDE involved. If you don't know what I am talking about, enter control-alt-F2 and see a simple little login prompt pop up after a few seconds. I use the virtual consoles heavily. They have not experienced any unexpected issues running 13.2. If you can't handle pure text mode, control-alt-F7 should get you back to X/KDE.

...

The "OK later" is that I have six of them

#1 is devoted to full screen thunderbird #2 is devoted to full screen firefox #3 is devoted to full screen konqueror file manager #4 is devoted to full screen Konsole with 4 tabs

I *NEVER* start any of those from alt-f2 or from the geeko menu. I never need to. The come up when I log in and that KDE config is saved when I shut down.

Sometimes I start things from the CLI in #4 and move them to #5 or #6.

I have simple needs. Mostly one VT with firefox / Konsole and multiple virtual consoles 90% of the time.

...

...
The last time it happened, I think I had 2 konsole windows going and 4 or 5 konsole tabs. All of it went away in a single stroke when I started firefox.

Now "2 console windows" could mean two INSTANCES of the program Konsole. Or do you mean you had 2 VTs?

note: I said konsole, you said console. Not the same thing. konsole is a KDE app. console implies X is not in use. Specifically: I entered alt-F2 and launched Konsole. Then from the file menu of konsole I selected "New Window" once and "New Tab" a few times. I think I had one konsole window with 4 tabs and one konsole window with 1 tab. I think that is all a SINGLE INSTANCE of konsole, but I don't know. All of that was on a single VT. I ran like that for hours as I was writing some bash scripts. I think I did a hibernate and wake-up cycle. I'm sure I started and killed firefox on the same VT a couple times. Then one time when I only had the 2 Konsole windows open I started firefox and both of my Konsole windows disappeared. fyi: I have no idea why you think all this detail is helpful, but now you know.

...

What went away? I hope you mean you have 2 Vts with a single instance of the Konsole program running set with 5 tabs.

No the VT was still there. The Konsole windows had disappeared, but now I had Firefox running. I did look on the other VTs to see if I somehow had just moved things around. No the Konsoles were gone. Further, I looked in ps -ef output and the konsole program was not running.

...

Did you start the FF in the same VT?

Yes, just one VT used for everything X related. Virtual Consoles used for pure text work.

...

Can you replicate any of this in the current - non beta - version?

To repeat, it last happened on Friday and I was running 13.2 gold. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

22:42

Is there some problem that you can't do a pure 'reply to list"? On 11/17/2014 05:09 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...
On 11/17/2014 03:42 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Anton Aylward

...
...
How do each of these methods turn out for you?

First, the die'ing of konsole has only happened twice that I can remember in weeks of using 13.2 beta/RC/gold.

Hmm ... Beta .... Hmm...

The most recent occurrence was last Friday. I had been running Gold for a week at least at that point.

...
...
I always start konsole via alt-f2 - manually type konsole. (I know, menus are nice, but I rarely use them when I can just type instead.)

I never ... Ok .. Later.

I'm not in kindergarten, I get to decide if I use menus or not. :)

I'm deleting lot here since I only wanted to clarify what you meant.

...

I have simple needs. Mostly one VT with firefox / Konsole and multiple virtual consoles 90% of the time.

LOL! My "simple needs" are everything is full screen. That's why 1VT = 1application. (Cue:Jackson Browne...)

...

...
...
The last time it happened, I think I had 2 konsole windows going and 4 or 5 konsole tabs. All of it went away in a single stroke when I started firefox.

Now "2 console windows" could mean two INSTANCES of the program Konsole. Or do you mean you had 2 VTs?

note: I said konsole, you said console. Not the same thing. konsole is a KDE app. console implies X is not in use.

Specifically:

I entered alt-F2 and launched Konsole. Then from the file menu of konsole I selected "New Window" once and "New Tab" a few times. I think I had one konsole window with 4 tabs and one konsole window with 1 tab. I think that is all a SINGLE INSTANCE of konsole, but I don't know.

I don't know, Let me experiment Hmm KAZAM! New Window! $ ps -fuanton|grep konsole anton 2219 1 1 14:52 ? 00:02:54 kdeinit4: konsole [kdeinit] -session 101e723a27519d00013287047 anton 4501 4468 0 17:28 pts/0 00:00:00 grep --color=auto konsole Right. Only one running copy of the program. Hmm. Firefox ... Same there. I wonder how many it takes to make the program crash?

...

All of that was on a single VT. I ran like that for hours as I was writing some bash scripts. I think I did a hibernate and wake-up cycle. I'm sure I started and killed firefox on the same VT a couple times.

Well, we know that there can be other problems with hobernate/wakeup cycles. Was that kill as in KILL(1) (with prejudice) or shutdown?

...

Then one time when I only had the 2 Konsole windows open I started firefox and both of my Konsole windows disappeared.

fyi: I have no idea why you think all this detail is helpful, but now you know.

Detail is always helpful.

...

...
What went away? I hope you mean you have 2 Vts with a single instance of the Konsole program running set with 5 tabs.

No the VT was still there. The Konsole windows had disappeared, but now I had Firefox running. I did look on the other VTs to see if I somehow had just moved things around. No the Konsoles were gone. Further, I looked in ps -ef output and the konsole program was not running.

...
Did you start the FF in the same VT?

Yes, just one VT used for everything X related. Virtual Consoles used for pure text work.

Same as I do :-) Except for KDE where its one VT per application. So I'm wondering if this isn't a KDE problem rather than a Konsole problem. I don't know the innards of KDE well enough to know how it tracks child processes, and you've made it clear above that you started and killed FF many times. I've never felt comfortable running T'Bird and FF under KDE; they are gnomic in nature rather Qt in nature.

...

...
Can you replicate any of this in the current - non beta - version?

To repeat, it last happened on Friday and I was running 13.2 gold.

Yes but is the kill-kill-kill-hibernate-kil-kill-kill your normal work cycle? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

23:00

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

Is there some problem that you can't do a pure 'reply to list"?

Just being a slacker. Reply all is preferred with many lists, Reply to list with others. I find the whole thing pedantic.

...

On 11/17/2014 05:09 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

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On 11/17/2014 03:42 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Anton Aylward

<snip>

...

...
...
...
The last time it happened, I think I had 2 konsole windows going and 4 or 5 konsole tabs. All of it went away in a single stroke when I started firefox.

Now "2 console windows" could mean two INSTANCES of the program Konsole. Or do you mean you had 2 VTs?

note: I said konsole, you said console. Not the same thing. konsole is a KDE app. console implies X is not in use.

Specifically:

I entered alt-F2 and launched Konsole. Then from the file menu of konsole I selected "New Window" once and "New Tab" a few times. I think I had one konsole window with 4 tabs and one konsole window with 1 tab. I think that is all a SINGLE INSTANCE of konsole, but I don't know.

I don't know, Let me experiment

Hmm KAZAM! New Window! $ ps -fuanton|grep konsole

anton 2219 1 1 14:52 ? 00:02:54 kdeinit4: konsole [kdeinit] -session 101e723a27519d00013287047 anton 4501 4468 0 17:28 pts/0 00:00:00 grep --color=auto konsole

Right. Only one running copy of the program. Hmm. Firefox ... Same there.

I wonder how many it takes to make the program crash?

I'll let you run that experiment.

...

...
All of that was on a single VT. I ran like that for hours as I was writing some bash scripts. I think I did a hibernate and wake-up cycle. I'm sure I started and killed firefox on the same VT a couple times.

Well, we know that there can be other problems with hobernate/wakeup cycles.

Was that kill as in KILL(1) (with prejudice) or shutdown?

Wrong word I guess. I did a clean exit from Firefox multiple times. I would have clicked the little x in the upper right corner of the window.

...

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Then one time when I only had the 2 Konsole windows open I started firefox and both of my Konsole windows disappeared.

fyi: I have no idea why you think all this detail is helpful, but now you know.

Detail is always helpful.

Or it can be overwhelming.

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What went away? I hope you mean you have 2 Vts with a single instance of the Konsole program running set with 5 tabs.

No the VT was still there. The Konsole windows had disappeared, but now I had Firefox running. I did look on the other VTs to see if I somehow had just moved things around. No the Konsoles were gone. Further, I looked in ps -ef output and the konsole program was not running.

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Did you start the FF in the same VT?

Yes, just one VT used for everything X related. Virtual Consoles used for pure text work.

Same as I do :-) Except for KDE where its one VT per application.

So I'm wondering if this isn't a KDE problem rather than a Konsole problem. I don't know the innards of KDE well enough to know how it tracks child processes, and you've made it clear above that you started and killed FF many times.

I've never felt comfortable running T'Bird and FF under KDE; they are gnomic in nature rather Qt in nature.

No idea of the source of the problem. It is something in the X / KDE / Konsole stack is about all I can say.

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Can you replicate any of this in the current - non beta - version?

To repeat, it last happened on Friday and I was running 13.2 gold.

Yes but is the kill-kill-kill-hibernate-kil-kill-kill your normal work cycle?

Normal enough except the hibernate, but I do hibernate my system from time to time. I will hibernate it tonight with both konsole and firefox running, then see what happens tomorrow. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Anton Aylward

23:08

On 11/17/2014 06:00 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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Detail is always helpful. Or it can be overwhelming.

I'm not denying that, but my experience, and I think others here will agree, is that if you omit something it might be the important detail that changes the view of everything. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

John Andersen

18 Nov 18 Nov

00:12

On 11/17/2014 03:08 PM, Anton Aylward wrote:

...

On 11/17/2014 06:00 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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...
...
Detail is always helpful. Or it can be overwhelming.

I'm not denying that, but my experience, and I think others here will agree, is that if you omit something it might be the important detail that changes the view of everything.

I had two eggs over easy up on toast, two sausages, and coffee for breakfast. Enough detail? No? Toast was unbuttered. Wholewheat. Coffee was Ethiopian Harrar. Better now? Konsole runs only under X, and usually in KDE. No further detail was needed. When I see people asking questions and following with a wall of text explaining every possible thing in their system, my eyes glass over, and TL;DR strikes again. I'm off to something of interest. Simple questions are most appropriate to issues like this. Anything you start from a konsole SHOULD NOT bring down the konsole with the possible exception of an extra "exit" or sudo reboot command, etc. The question was clear and focused without all the detail about virtual ttys, multiple desktops, xterms, or other obfuscating nonsense. It occurs to me that my sig line is especially appropriate there...... -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

17 Nov 17 Nov

18:26

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:15 PM, John Andersen wrote:

...

On November 17, 2014 5:17:05 AM PST, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...
Re: opensuse 13.2

I use konsole (kde's terminal app) a fair amount.

At least twice my windows seem to have just disappeared.

Is anyone else seeing this?

I don't know what is triggering it. The last time, I noted I had just started Firefox and it seemed that when Firefox started, konsole died.

The last time, I looked in ps -ef output for a long running app I had running and it wasn't there. Thus kde didn't just hide the windows, they died.

Greg --

I have not seen any misbehavior of konsole in 13.2.

I don't routinely stare browser there, but I do start other stuff from konsole Windows, and I've not noticed any app taking down konsole when it crashed or terminated normally.

If konsole were to crash you might find something in xsession errors.

But i doubt you could grep /var/log/ (as you mentioned in another post) and find any useful info since logs are all binary due to systemd.

I must have fixed that "feature", or maybe it isn't true of upgrades. # file *.log messages warn Xorg.0.log: ASCII text alternatives.log: ASCII text, with very long lines boot.log: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR line terminators, with escape sequences kdm.log: ASCII text pbl.log: ASCII text pm-powersave.log: empty pm-suspend.log: ASCII text rkhunter.log: ASCII text snapper.log: ASCII text wpa_supplicant.log: ASCII text zypper.log: ASCII text, with very long lines messages: ASCII text warn: ASCII text And I found various references to konsole via grep, just none about a crash.

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-- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Werner Flamme

19:36

Greg Freemyer 2014-11-17 19:26:

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...
But i doubt you could grep /var/log/ (as you mentioned in another post) and find any useful info since logs are all binary due to systemd.

I must have fixed that "feature", or maybe it isn't true of upgrades.

# file *.log messages warn Xorg.0.log: ASCII text alternatives.log: ASCII text, with very long lines boot.log: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR line terminators, with escape sequences [... a.s.o.]

No, my friend, these are only duplicates :) The original log from systemd's log daemon part (daemonic log part?) writes to /var/log/journal/<$longid>. Plus it feeds the standard syslog interface, so that rsyslog also gets the messages and spreads them in various log files outside /var/log/journal/ :) So, up to now you have text files as well as the binary versions. Maybe one day journald will stop feeding the syslog interface, who knows? BTW, in /etc/systemd/journald.conf you can tell journald how much space it may gobble up... Regards, Werner -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

20:47

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Werner Flamme wrote:

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Greg Freemyer 2014-11-17 19:26:

...
...
But i doubt you could grep /var/log/ (as you mentioned in another post) and find any useful info since logs are all binary due to systemd.

I must have fixed that "feature", or maybe it isn't true of upgrades.

# file *.log messages warn Xorg.0.log: ASCII text alternatives.log: ASCII text, with very long lines boot.log: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR line terminators, with escape sequences [... a.s.o.]

No, my friend, these are only duplicates :)

Duplicates that I can and do grep. :) Assuming the binary copies exist to maintain a solid authentication capability, I think the combination of authenticatable binary logs and human readable text logs is just about perfect for me. Thanks Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

John Andersen

22:02

On 11/17/2014 12:47 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

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On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Werner Flamme wrote:

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Greg Freemyer 2014-11-17 19:26:

...
...
But i doubt you could grep /var/log/ (as you mentioned in another post) and find any useful info since logs are all binary due to systemd.

I must have fixed that "feature", or maybe it isn't true of upgrades.

# file *.log messages warn Xorg.0.log: ASCII text alternatives.log: ASCII text, with very long lines boot.log: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR line terminators, with escape sequences [... a.s.o.]

No, my friend, these are only duplicates :)

Duplicates that I can and do grep. :)

Assuming the binary copies exist to maintain a solid authentication capability, I think the combination of authenticatable binary logs and human readable text logs is just about perfect for me.

Thanks Greg

Yes, but In my case, there is no human readable one, except for a few things that appear not go go through a few things...

...

oulsbo:/var/log # file *.log messages warn Xorg.0.log: data alternatives.log: ASCII text, with very long lines boot.log: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR line terminators, with escape sequences kdm.log: ASCII text pbl.log: ASCII text snapper.log: ASCII text wpa_supplicant.log: ASCII text messages: cannot open `messages' (No such file or directory) warn: cannot open `warn' (No such file or directory)

This is from a fresh install, not an upgrade. This of course sends me scurrying to find the documentation on how to read the logs which is something I have not yet learned by rote. https://coreos.com/docs/cluster-management/debugging/reading-the-system-log/ -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Werner Flamme

18 Nov 18 Nov

08:50

Am 17.11.2014 um 23:02 schrieb John Andersen:

...

On 11/17/2014 12:47 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Werner Flamme wrote:

...
Greg Freemyer 2014-11-17 19:26:

...
...
But i doubt you could grep /var/log/ (as you mentioned in another post) and find any useful info since logs are all binary due to systemd.

I must have fixed that "feature", or maybe it isn't true of upgrades.

# file *.log messages warn Xorg.0.log: ASCII text alternatives.log: ASCII text, with very long lines boot.log: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR line terminators, with escape sequences [... a.s.o.]

No, my friend, these are only duplicates :)

Duplicates that I can and do grep. :)

Assuming the binary copies exist to maintain a solid authentication capability, I think the combination of authenticatable binary logs and human readable text logs is just about perfect for me.

Thanks Greg

Yes, but In my case, there is no human readable one, except for a few things that appear not go go through a few things...

...
oulsbo:/var/log # file *.log messages warn Xorg.0.log: data alternatives.log: ASCII text, with very long lines boot.log: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR line terminators, with escape sequences kdm.log: ASCII text pbl.log: ASCII text snapper.log: ASCII text wpa_supplicant.log: ASCII text messages: cannot open `messages' (No such file or directory) warn: cannot open `warn' (No such file or directory)

This is from a fresh install, not an upgrade.

Why do you think so? I also have those files (well, most of them), and I did not do a fresh install, but upgrades since about oS 11.2. But even after a fresh install (laptop, VM), rsyslogd is running and providing several plain text files inside /var/log/ directory. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

12:42

On November 18, 2014 3:50:57 AM EST, Werner Flamme wrote:

...

...
On 11/17/2014 12:47 PM, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Werner Flamme wrote:

...
Greg Freemyer 2014-11-17 19:26:

...
...
But i doubt you could grep /var/log/ (as you mentioned in

another post) and find any useful info since logs are all binary due to systemd.

I must have fixed that "feature", or maybe it isn't true of upgrades.

# file *.log messages warn Xorg.0.log: ASCII text alternatives.log: ASCII text, with very long lines boot.log: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR line terminators, with escape sequences [... a.s.o.]

No, my friend, these are only duplicates :)

Duplicates that I can and do grep. :)

Assuming the binary copies exist to maintain a solid authentication capability, I think the combination of authenticatable binary logs and human readable text logs is just about perfect for me.

Thanks Greg

Yes, but In my case, there is no human readable one, except for a few

Am 17.11.2014 um 23:02 schrieb John Andersen: things

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that appear not go go through a few things...

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oulsbo:/var/log # file *.log messages warn

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...
Xorg.0.log: data

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alternatives.log: ASCII text, with very long lines

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boot.log: ASCII text, with CRLF, CR line terminators, with escape sequences kdm.log: ASCII text

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...
pbl.log: ASCII text

...
...
snapper.log: ASCII text

...
...
wpa_supplicant.log: ASCII text

...
...
messages: cannot open `messages' (No such file or directory) warn: cannot open `warn' (No such file or directory)

This is from a fresh install, not an upgrade.

Why do you think so? I also have those files (well, most of them), and I did not do a fresh install, but upgrades since about oS 11.2. But even after a fresh install (laptop, VM), rsyslogd is running and providing several plain text files inside /var/log/ directory.

I think he was basically complaining about messages and warn not existing on his box while I had them on mine. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Per Jessen

17 Nov 17 Nov

18:30

John Andersen wrote:

...

But i doubt you could grep /var/log/ (as you mentioned in another post) and find any useful info since logs are all binary due to systemd.

Unless you install a syslog daemon. I'm sure you knew that. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (7.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

18 Nov 18 Nov

00:56

On 2014-11-17 14:17, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

I don't know what is triggering it. The last time, I noted I had just started Firefox and it seemed that when Firefox started, konsole died.

Have a look at the log to see if there was a segfault. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

auxsvr＠gmail.com

08:46

On Monday 17 of November 2014 08:17:05 Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

Re: opensuse 13.2

I use konsole (kde's terminal app) a fair amount.

At least twice my windows seem to have just disappeared.

Is anyone else seeing this?

I don't know what is triggering it. The last time, I noted I had just started Firefox and it seemed that when Firefox started, konsole died.

If your root is on btrfs, perhaps https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340657 is related?

...

Greg -- Regards, Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

12:45

On November 18, 2014 3:46:43 AM EST, auxsvr@gmail.com wrote:

...

On Monday 17 of November 2014 08:17:05 Greg Freemyer wrote:

...
Re: opensuse 13.2

I use konsole (kde's terminal app) a fair amount.

At least twice my windows seem to have just disappeared.

Is anyone else seeing this?

I don't know what is triggering it. The last time, I noted I had just started Firefox and it seemed that when Firefox started, konsole died.

If your root is on btrfs, perhaps https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340657 is related?

Good thought, but this machine has not seen btrfs yet. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

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Anton Aylward
auxsvr＠gmail.com
Carlos E. R.
Greg Freemyer
jdd
John Andersen
Per Jessen
Werner Flamme