This was mentioned on an apt-thread today. I've had a Red Carpet process running since I did an Evolution upgrade. I don't really know what it is. Is it a viable replacement for apt-get or YOU? Any relative merits worth discussing? -- Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! - See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup. NOTE: Please do not email me any attachments with Microsoft extensions. They are deleted on my ISP's server before I ever see them, and no bounce message is sent.
On Friday August 27 2004 6:19 pm, Jim Sabatke wrote:
This was mentioned on an apt-thread today. I've had a Red Carpet process running since I did an Evolution upgrade. I don't really know what it is.
Is it a viable replacement for apt-get or YOU? Any relative merits worth discussing?
Red-Carpet is THE BEST updater I've used!! VERY solid application! Anders is the one who posted about it often enough that I finally tried it - APT is "gone" from this system. Fred -- "Running Windows on a Pentium is like getting a Porsche but only being able to drive it in reverse with the handbrake on."
Fred, On Friday 27 August 2004 15:54, Fred Miller wrote:
On Friday August 27 2004 6:19 pm, Jim Sabatke wrote:
This was mentioned on an apt-thread today. I've had a Red Carpet process running since I did an Evolution upgrade. I don't really know what it is.
Is it a viable replacement for apt-get or YOU? Any relative merits worth discussing?
Red-Carpet is THE BEST updater I've used!! VERY solid application! Anders is the one who posted about it often enough that I finally tried it - APT is "gone" from this system.
Fred
Pardon my wariness at changing such a crucial piece of my system... Does Red Carpet handle the actions that must follow installation of the packages themselves? Can Red Carpet install kernels? Is using Red Carpet a one-way street, or can one readily switch back to the system's native package management system (YaST)? Randall Schulz
On Saturday 28 August 2004 01:14, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Does Red Carpet handle the actions that must follow installation of the packages themselves?
There are no such actions. If you mean "does it run SuSEconfig", then no.
Can Red Carpet install kernels?
Assuming they are rpms, of course it can. But kernels are best installed manually
Is using Red Carpet a one-way street, or can one readily switch back to the system's native package management system (YaST)?
Begging your pardon, but "the system's native package management system" is RPM. Anything else, and I mean anything, is just a GUI frontend that makes your life more or less miserable. There is no part of yast, apt or red carpet that cannot be done manually from the command line using plain old rpm. All those tools do is help you find the packages, and help you solve dependencies. That is all. They can't help you if the rpms themselves are broken, except to help you unroll changes. And yes, they are all interchangeable.
Hi, No offense, but can I get an answer from someone who is _not_ a cheerleader for Red Carpet, who can refer to its alternatives without sneering and who will not speak to me as if the first time I saw computer was the day before yesterday? Thank you. On Friday 27 August 2004 16:22, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Saturday 28 August 2004 01:14, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Does Red Carpet handle the actions that must follow installation of the packages themselves?
There are no such actions. If you mean "does it run SuSEconfig", then no.
That's a contradiction. Running SuSEconfig _is_ such an action.
Can Red Carpet install kernels?
Assuming they are rpms, of course it can. But kernels are best installed manually
In your opinion. Frankly, to me this is utter nonsense. Computers are about automation. If a formulaic operation such as installing new software, kernel or otherwise, is not fully automated by one tool and it is by another, then the latter is the superior tool.
Is using Red Carpet a one-way street, or can one readily switch back to the system's native package management system (YaST)?
Begging your pardon, but "the system's native package management system" is RPM. Anything else, and I mean anything, is just a GUI frontend that makes your life more or less miserable. There is no part of yast, apt or red carpet that cannot be done manually from the command line using plain old rpm. All those tools do is help you find the packages, and help you solve dependencies. That is all. They can't help you if the rpms themselves are broken, except to help you unroll changes.
And yes, they are all interchangeable.
Randall Schulz
On Saturday 28 August 2004 01:38, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
No offense, but can I get an answer from someone who is _not_ a cheerleader for Red Carpet, who can refer to its alternatives without sneering and who will not speak to me as if the first time I saw computer was the day before yesterday?
Thank you.
You're welcome. Consider this the last mail you will see from me
On Friday 27 August 2004 16:43, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Saturday 28 August 2004 01:38, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
No offense, but can I get an answer from someone who is _not_ a cheerleader for Red Carpet, who can refer to its alternatives without sneering and who will not speak to me as if the first time I saw computer was the day before yesterday?
Thank you.
You're welcome. Consider this the last mail you will see from me
No problem.
On Fri, 2004-08-27 at 16:38, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
No offense, but can I get an answer from someone who is _not_ a cheerleader for Red Carpet, who can refer to its alternatives without sneering and who will not speak to me as if the first time I saw computer was the day before yesterday?
Thank you.
To be honest, if Anders is "cheerleading" something its going to be worth a look... As Red Carpet has not taken over my system I do suggest taking a look at it, and maybe try updating one package to see how it works if you want to be extra cautious. Matt
Matt, On Friday 27 August 2004 17:04, Matthew wrote:
On Fri, 2004-08-27 at 16:38, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
No offense, but can I get an answer from someone who is _not_ a cheerleader for Red Carpet, who can refer to its alternatives without sneering and who will not speak to me as if the first time I saw computer was the day before yesterday?
Thank you.
To be honest, if Anders is "cheerleading" something its going to be worth a look...
Clearly Anders is knowledgeable and experienced, but I need facts, not bald assertions and arguments from authority. And his tone is distinctly supercilious, which I find uncalled-for and offensive. There's plenty of evidence to the effect that package managers can mess up one's system. Without more to go on, I have to assume that the best results will be obtained by not adding to the mix a major piece of system software that was not included in the distribution but which performs functions intimately involved in the system's correct functioning and stability.
As Red Carpet has not taken over my system I do suggest taking a look at it, and maybe try updating one package to see how it works if you want to be extra cautious.
I'm still not sufficiently motivated to do so. I have no problems with the YaST Install and Remove module, so I think I'll wait to hear more from other souls more intrepid than I. I have a rule: No early-adopter experimentation with the latest and greatest versions of key software unless I have an explicit need for something it supplies.
Matt
Randall Schulz
There's plenty of evidence to the effect that package managers can mess up one's system. Without more to go on, I have to assume that the best results will be obtained by not adding to the mix a major piece of system software that was not included in the distribution but which performs functions intimately involved in the system's correct functioning and stability.
As your nemesis Anders pointed out, its just a GUI that makes upgrades and installs easy. Yes I still use YaST too and use Red Carpet to get at upgrades that SuSE will not offer. No issues here.
As Red Carpet has not taken over my system I do suggest taking a look at it, and maybe try updating one package to see how it works if you want to be extra cautious.
I'm still not sufficiently motivated to do so. I have no problems with the YaST Install and Remove module, so I think I'll wait to hear more from other souls more intrepid than I.
What am I? A sales person? I am not trying to motivate you to do *anything*. Why are you asking about Red Carpet if you're not motivated to find out?
I have a rule: No early-adopter experimentation with the latest and greatest versions of key software unless I have an explicit need for something it supplies.
Early adopter? Red Carpet has been around for years. Do what you want, thats the Linux way :).
Matt
Randall Schulz
Matt
Matt, On Friday 27 August 2004 18:35, Matthew wrote:
...
I'm still not sufficiently motivated to do so. I have no problems with the YaST Install and Remove module, so I think I'll wait to hear more from other souls more intrepid than I.
What am I? A sales person? I am not trying to motivate you to do *anything*. Why are you asking about Red Carpet if you're not motivated to find out?
What are you? You'd have to tell me. Anders, who evidently will not explain his position (to me, at least) repeatedly advocates Red Carpet, but says little more than "it's better." "Just because," apparently. And I'm asking what I asked: What are the pros, cons and issues surrounding the use of Red Carpet in place of or in addition to the YaST Install and Remove module. I'm asking for the obvious reason: I want to learn other peoples' experience and knowledge in this matter. This list is for people to share information, after all. I'm _not_ motivated to risk the integrity of my system on a few terse blandishments. What's wrong with that? Surely you don't find my reluctance to jump head-first into using a non-trivial piece of software that performs a critical system function without soliciting others' experiences to be unreasonable or out-of-line, do you?
I have a rule: No early-adopter experimentation with the latest and greatest versions of key software unless I have an explicit need for something it supplies.
Early adopter? Red Carpet has been around for years. Do what you want, thats the Linux way :).
So where are all the Red Carpet users? All I'm looking for is some feedback on people's experience with it. So far, almost no one has anything to say. And what has been said amounts to "don't worry" (with a bit of "it has a nice interface" thrown in). So while Red Carpet may be older than dirt, so far it doesn't look to me like it gets much use. If that perception is accurate, then it's not necessarily valid to conclude that it's reliable. For all I know, it's the best piece of software ever written, but I'm looking for some real information on which to base an opinion and make a decision about trying it out. Perhaps the fact that I don't have a "hobby" machine (as Anders put it) to experiment with makes me an unusual participant here, but that's my situation. I have one home desktop that I rely on for everyday computing, including my work. I have to be conservative about how I manage and maintain it. Randall Schulz
At the risk of extending the length and tone of this thread, I shall reply with my own experience here. First, Randall, if you have no problems with the YaST Install and Remove module, then I suggest you are probably best to continue using it. As noted here on this lists, others on this list have in fact found some of its shortcomings inadequate for the management of their own systems. For my own credentials - I am a Sr. Unix Administrator with over 12 years experience running linux as well as several commercial Unices, and am currently responsible for design work on a proof-of-concept project for linux deployment and centralized management at a large US corporation. I have experience with several versions of SuSE Linux, in both Professional and SuSE Linux Enterprise Server editions, and with many other distributions. I have previously used Red Hat Network, YaST, yum, and manual methods to maintain package and patch repositories. I have not used apt on RPM based systems, but I have used it on Debian-based systems. My company has chosen to standardize on Zenworks Linux Management (ZLM) (formerly Red Carpet Enterprise, RCE) for our Linux management needs at this time. I currently maintain a local ZLM repository, but my comments on the client side apply equally to the publically available clients from Novell after their acquisition of Ximian. stigated exhaustively. All of the methods listed above save the manual one, including Red Carpet, are capable of dependancy resolution provided that their repositories contain all of the necessary RPMs. YaST/YOU is currently included with all shipping versions of SuSE Pro and SLES, to my knowledge. SLES 9 includes a YaST module to run your own YOU repository, if you so choose. yum provides a simple method of maintaining its own repository. Red Hat Network is proprietary to Red Hat and therefore irrelevant to this conversation. Both RHN and RCE/ZLM currently require purchasing a closed-source product to manage their repositories. APT repositories are apparently relatively simple to run, and can also (apparently, as I have not done it) be used by both the apt and yum tools, if so desired. Red Carpet consists of several components: rcd (the Red Carpet Daemon) and some sort of client. There are both command line clients (rug) and GUI versions (Red Carpet) which both interact with the rcd in order to acomplish their tasks. The rcd daemon appears to interact with the rpm database. If rcd is not started (controlled by an init script, /etc/init.d/rcd, which can be deactivated from the boot sequence if desired by running insserv -r rcd), the Red Carpet system does not appear to have any remaining hooks into the system. In particular, there are no hooks in the kernel which are required to make it work and no unknown binaries running on a system after shutting down the rcd daemon. All the rug/RedCarpet/rcd combination does, basically, is package addition and removal, including dependancy resolution. If the optional rcd-modules package has been loaded, it is also possible to run scripts and gather some information about the client systems from ZLM/Red Carpet server. With or without the rcd-modules package, rcd listens on port 505 and communicates with the remote server using XML-RPC over an SSL-encrypted session. By contrast, YaST and yum do not leave anything running when they are not actually being used. For managing client systems without running the repositories myself, my choices would depend mostly on the quality of the repositories available to the client, and whether the client runs on all of the distributions which I happened to have running as cients. If I were running the repositories also, there are other considerations which come into play, of course. I won't attempt to go into those here. My choice at my current employer has obviously been ZLM and rcd. In another environment, factors might lend themselves to other clients. All of the clients are capable of managing updates if the repositories which they use are appropriately managed. Use what works best for you. For someone who is truly interested in more information about rcd/Red Carpet, I should note that a google search for '"Red Carpet" rcd' or '"Red Carpet" rug' - leave the " quotes in - will turn up a mailing list archive, a public forum at Novell, and a variety of other information. If you want more information than that about Red Carpet and the other products, I strongly recommend doing your homework using the web to find out the details that are most important to you. Hope this helps someone. -Randy Dees <quote who="Randall R Schulz">
Matt,
On Friday 27 August 2004 18:35, Matthew wrote:
...
I'm still not sufficiently motivated to do so. I have no problems with the YaST Install and Remove module, so I think I'll wait to hear more from other souls more intrepid than I.
What am I? A sales person? I am not trying to motivate you to do *anything*. Why are you asking about Red Carpet if you're not motivated to find out?
What are you? You'd have to tell me.
Anders, who evidently will not explain his position (to me, at least) repeatedly advocates Red Carpet, but says little more than "it's better." "Just because," apparently.
And I'm asking what I asked: What are the pros, cons and issues surrounding the use of Red Carpet in place of or in addition to the YaST Install and Remove module. I'm asking for the obvious reason: I want to learn other peoples' experience and knowledge in this matter. This list is for people to share information, after all.
I'm _not_ motivated to risk the integrity of my system on a few terse blandishments. What's wrong with that? Surely you don't find my reluctance to jump head-first into using a non-trivial piece of software that performs a critical system function without soliciting others' experiences to be unreasonable or out-of-line, do you?
I have a rule: No early-adopter experimentation with the latest and greatest versions of key software unless I have an explicit need for something it supplies.
Early adopter? Red Carpet has been around for years. Do what you want, thats the Linux way :).
So where are all the Red Carpet users? All I'm looking for is some feedback on people's experience with it. So far, almost no one has anything to say. And what has been said amounts to "don't worry" (with a bit of "it has a nice interface" thrown in). So while Red Carpet may be older than dirt, so far it doesn't look to me like it gets much use. If that perception is accurate, then it's not necessarily valid to conclude that it's reliable. For all I know, it's the best piece of software ever written, but I'm looking for some real information on which to base an opinion and make a decision about trying it out.
Perhaps the fact that I don't have a "hobby" machine (as Anders put it) to experiment with makes me an unusual participant here, but that's my situation. I have one home desktop that I rely on for everyday computing, including my work. I have to be conservative about how I manage and maintain it.
Randall Schulz
-- Check the headers for your unsubscription address For additional commands send e-mail to suse-linux-e-help@suse.com Also check the archives at http://lists.suse.com Please read the FAQs: suse-linux-e-faq@suse.com
-- Randy Dees c: (704) 618-0887 Random Thought: --------------- Even when freshly washed and relieved of all obvious confections, children tend to be sticky. - Fran Lebowitz
Randy, Thanks. That's definitely far more informative than all the other stuff said so far put together. Randall Schulz On Friday 27 August 2004 21:03, Randy Dees wrote:
At the risk of extending the length and tone of this thread, I shall reply with my own experience here.
...
For someone who is truly interested in more information about rcd/Red Carpet, I should note that a google search for '"Red Carpet" rcd' or '"Red Carpet" rug' - leave the " quotes in - will turn up a mailing list archive, a public forum at Novell, and a variety of other information. If you want more information than that about Red Carpet and the other products, I strongly recommend doing your homework using the web to find out the details that are most important to you.
Hope this helps someone.
-Randy Dees
On Fri, 2004-08-27 at 21:27, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Randy,
Thanks. That's definitely far more informative than all the other stuff said so far put together.
Randall Schulz
It is indeed that he took the time to give such an in depth analysis. Matt
On Friday 27 August 2004 21:03, Randy Dees wrote:
At the risk of extending the length and tone of this thread, I shall reply with my own experience here.
...
For someone who is truly interested in more information about rcd/Red Carpet, I should note that a google search for '"Red Carpet" rcd' or '"Red Carpet" rug' - leave the " quotes in - will turn up a mailing list archive, a public forum at Novell, and a variety of other information. If you want more information than that about Red Carpet and the other products, I strongly recommend doing your homework using the web to find out the details that are most important to you.
Hope this helps someone.
-Randy Dees
On Friday 27 August 2004 9:03 pm, Randy Dees wrote:
At the risk of extending the length and tone of this thread, I shall reply with my own experience here.
Great information Randy! Truly a useful post. Scott -- POPFile, the OpenSource EMail Classifier http://popfile.sourceforge.net/ Linux 2.6.5-7.104-default x86_64
Op zaterdag 28 augustus 2004 06:03, schreef Randy Dees:
All the rug/RedCarpet/rcd combination does, basically, is package addition and removal, including dependancy resolution. If the optional rcd-modules package has been loaded, it is also possible to run scripts and gather some information about the client systems from ZLM/Red Carpet server. With or without the rcd-modules package, rcd listens on port 505 and communicates with the remote server using XML-RPC over an SSL-encrypted session. By contrast, YaST and yum do not leave anything running when they are not actually being used.
Randy, thanks a lot for all information about RC. Has anyone tried open-carpet from: http://open-carpet.org/? What are the differeneces and the pros and cons compared to RC? rcd uses port 505, would it be possible to snmp instead for doing the same thing. There is one and other explained on: http://www.linux.com/print.pl?sid=04/08/06/1948203 For example: # rcsnmpd start and # snmpwalk -Ov -v2c -c public localhost .1.3.6.1.2.1.25.6.3.1.2 outputs: STRING: "Crystalcursors-0.5-20" STRING: "libattr-2.4.12-56" STRING: "expat-1.95.7-37" STRING: "cracklib-2.7-1006" STRING: "libacl-2.2.21-54" STRING: "libgcj-3.3.3-41" STRING: "libsamplerate-0.0.15-140" Would it for example be possible to install rpms using snmp? -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
On Sun, 2004-08-29 at 00:15, Richard Bos wrote:
Op zaterdag 28 augustus 2004 06:03, schreef Randy Dees:
All the rug/RedCarpet/rcd combination does, basically, is package addition and removal, including dependancy resolution. If the optional rcd-modules package has been loaded, it is also possible to run scripts and gather some information about the client systems from ZLM/Red Carpet server. With or without the rcd-modules package, rcd listens on port 505 and communicates with the remote server using XML-RPC over an SSL-encrypted session. By contrast, YaST and yum do not leave anything running when they are not actually being used.
Randy,
thanks a lot for all information about RC.
Has anyone tried open-carpet from: http://open-carpet.org/? What are the differeneces and the pros and cons compared to RC?
No difference. Open-carpet is a collection of "services" that you can add to the red-carpet client. It's like a collection of apt-sources for apt. So, in other words, If you install red-carpet you can access the opencarpet services. You can also use the software "open-carpet" to set up your own services (with your own channels) Regards, Erik
On Friday 27 August 2004 10:31 pm, Randall R Schulz wrote:
So where are all the Red Carpet users? All I'm looking for is some feedback on people's experience with it. So far, almost no one has anything to say. And what has been said amounts to "don't worry" (with a bit of "it has a nice interface" thrown in). So while Red Carpet may be older than dirt, so far it doesn't look to me like it gets much use. If that perception is accurate, then it's not necessarily valid to conclude that it's reliable. For all I know, it's the best piece of software ever written, but I'm looking for some real information on which to base an opinion and make a decision about trying it out.
I use it and it works very well. I have never used apt because of all of the problems I have heard people having with it. However, like apt and YAST, nothing will ever guarantee that there will be no problems... and 99% of those problems will be due to packaging, not due to the program that applied the packages. There's not much you can do to avoid that. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 08/28/04 04:37 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "As you ramble on through life, brother, whatever be your goal: keep you eyes upon the donut, and not upon the hole!" - Quote from Dr. Murray Banks
** Reply to message from Randall R Schulz
Perhaps the fact that I don't have a "hobby" machine (as Anders put it) to experiment with makes me an unusual participant here, but that's my situation. I have one home desktop that I rely on for everyday computing, including my work. I have to be conservative about how I manage and maintain it.
Randall Schulz
Randall, I also do not have a "hobby computer." Mine is my business computer. It **must** stay up and running. I cannot risk catastrophe. In addition, I am a relative Linux newbie who is scared sh*tless by the fear that I'll do something during a download that will crash my computer. And all of the discussions on the suse-list are "geek" to me -- way over my head. That said, Anders has been extremely helpful to me and has never steered me wrong. He suggested RedCarpet to me and was gracious enough to walk this newbie through an install. I tried it; it worked. And I have made numerous updates to my system using RedCarpet. It has not proven problematic and I have not had problems since I started using RedCarpet roughly 2 months ago. Note, however, that Anders urged me to be careful selecting what I downloaded from RedCarpet. And so I have limited myself to getting the KDE and Packman files. Just my opinion that you can trust Anders' opinion on RedCarpet. Go slowly and you should be fine. And once you've got the hang of it I think you'll discover that it's not so bad to take an arrow or two from time to time from Anders! ;o) Hell, you can't be as lame at this as I am, and I've managed to survive! ;o) Gil
On Sat, 2004-08-28 at 02:28, Randall R Schulz wrote:
I'm still not sufficiently motivated to do so. I have no problems with the YaST Install and Remove module, so I think I'll wait to hear more from other souls more intrepid than I.
Me neither, it works, it's just not as nice as red-carpet.
I have a rule: No early-adopter experimentation with the latest and greatest versions of key software unless I have an explicit need for something it supplies.
Good, red-carpet has been around for quite some time. You should feel safe. Regards, Erik
On Fri, 2004-08-27 at 19:38, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
No offense, but can I get an answer from someone who is _not_ a cheerleader for Red Carpet, who can refer to its alternatives without sneering and who will not speak to me as if the first time I saw computer was the day before yesterday?
Thank you.
On Friday 27 August 2004 16:22, Anders Johansson wrote:
On Saturday 28 August 2004 01:14, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Does Red Carpet handle the actions that must follow installation of the packages themselves?
There are no such actions. If you mean "does it run SuSEconfig", then no.
That's a contradiction. Running SuSEconfig _is_ such an action.
Can Red Carpet install kernels?
Assuming they are rpms, of course it can. But kernels are best installed manually
In your opinion.
Frankly, to me this is utter nonsense. Computers are about automation. If a formulaic operation such as installing new software, kernel or otherwise, is not fully automated by one tool and it is by another, then the latter is the superior tool.
Is using Red Carpet a one-way street, or can one readily switch back to the system's native package management system (YaST)?
Begging your pardon, but "the system's native package management system" is RPM. Anything else, and I mean anything, is just a GUI frontend that makes your life more or less miserable. There is no part of yast, apt or red carpet that cannot be done manually from the command line using plain old rpm. All those tools do is help you find the packages, and help you solve dependencies. That is all. They can't help you if the rpms themselves are broken, except to help you unroll changes.
And yes, they are all interchangeable.
(I love ironies.) Some weeks back Anders and I got into an exchange over Red-Carpet, he the pro, me the anti. I'm not a big fan of Red-Carpet, and I doubt I'll use it again until Novell puts it to use in their server level software. Having said that, what Andres has written here can be taken without the proverbial grain of salt. You can IMO take this at face value. Mike
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
No offense, but can I get an answer from someone who is _not_ a cheerleader for Red Carpet, who can refer to its alternatives without sneering and who will not speak to me as if the first time I saw computer was the day before yesterday?
Thank you.
I don't consider myself a cheerleader for anybody. I have one machine running Fedora FC2, updated by Synaptic, and another running SuSE 9.1 updated by Red Carpet. Each has advantages and disadvantages. Red Carpet seems a bit more responsive as (if I understand correctly) the repositories are scanned by a daemon in the background. Red Carpet also has a slightly kinder and gentler GUI (IMHO). On the other hand (also IMHO), Synaptic has a wider range of repositories available (for Fedora). Neither is enough that I would switch to one or the other exclusively. Synaptic (OK, APT) allows one to specify packages which must be installed rather than updated; I've come to trust this enough to use Synaptic to install kernel upgrades and to withdraw obsolete kernel packages. To be honest though, I don't recall a kernel upgrade being available through the channels I scan via Red Carpet since I started using it. The comment, elsewhere in this thread, that kernel upgrades are best done manually suggests that perhaps Synaptic is a bit superior in this area. Neither of them runs any kind of post-processor like SuSEconfig, but on the whole I consider that to be an advantage, as, while running SuSEconfig after updating configuration options is a great idea, I'm not entirely certain it makes sense after applying service. After bulk-applying service to either box, I normally reboot. Perhaps not entirely standard, but they're my boxes and I can do what I want with them. The bottom line is that I will continue to use Synaptic to update Fedora, and Red Carpet to update SuSE because each has what I perceive as advantages in the chosen environment. YMMV. Cheers, Gordon Keehn
Op maandag 30 augustus 2004 18:08, schreef Gordon Keehn:
Neither of them runs any kind of post-processor like SuSEconfig, but on the whole I consider that to be an advantage, as, while running SuSEconfig after updating configuration options is a great idea, I'm not entirely certain it makes sense after applying service.
Synaptic (0.53 suse-9.1) runs SuSEconfig on my box, after installing or removing packages. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
Richard Bos wrote:
Op maandag 30 augustus 2004 18:08, schreef Gordon Keehn:
Neither of them runs any kind of post-processor like SuSEconfig, but on the whole I consider that to be an advantage, as, while running SuSEconfig after updating configuration options is a great idea, I'm not entirely certain it makes sense after applying service.
Synaptic (0.53 suse-9.1) runs SuSEconfig on my box, after installing or removing packages.
I stand corrected, but then, I've never run Synaptic under SuSE. I still consider NOT running SuSEconfig unconditionally to be an advantage. Cheers, Gordon
Op maandag 30 augustus 2004 21:09, schreef Gordon Keehn:
I stand corrected, but then, I've never run Synaptic under SuSE. I still consider NOT running SuSEconfig unconditionally to be an advantage. Cheers, Gordon
For your information: it is configurable :) Define Scripts::Options::RunPostScript to false in apt.conf and no postscript will be run... With apt's command line version you just specify --no-post -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
On Fri, 2004-08-27 at 16:14, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Fred,
On Friday 27 August 2004 15:54, Fred Miller wrote:
On Friday August 27 2004 6:19 pm, Jim Sabatke wrote:
This was mentioned on an apt-thread today. I've had a Red Carpet process running since I did an Evolution upgrade. I don't really know what it is.
Is it a viable replacement for apt-get or YOU? Any relative merits worth discussing?
Red-Carpet is THE BEST updater I've used!! VERY solid application! Anders is the one who posted about it often enough that I finally tried it - APT is "gone" from this system.
Fred
Pardon my wariness at changing such a crucial piece of my system...
Does Red Carpet handle the actions that must follow installation of the packages themselves?
Does not run SuSEconfig by hand, you will have to run that as root separately. SuSEconfig does not "config" every single package that you put on the system.
Can Red Carpet install kernels?
Yes, but only those ones written in RPM
Is using Red Carpet a one-way street, or can one readily switch back to the system's native package management system (YaST)?
No it does not take over Yast, you can still use Yast whenever you want as I still do. But YaST does not offer upgrades easily within itself to lets say, KDE 3.3...
Randall Schulz
Matt
On Friday 27 August 2004 06:54 pm, Fred Miller wrote:
Red-Carpet is THE BEST updater I've used!! VERY solid application! Anders is the one who posted about it often enough that I finally tried it - APT is "gone" from this system.
Ok, where do I get Red Carpet for Suse? Is it on the 9.1 cds? -- Bob Rea mailto:gapetard@stsams.org http://www.petard.us http://www.petard.us/blog http://www.petard.us/gallery Time is the best teacher. Unfortunately it kills all its students.
I have been reading the postings about Red Carpet and would like to try it, but I know very little about it. Google doesn't help, and RPMFind lists: libredcrpet-tools, libredcarpet-python, and libredcarpet - all libraries. Do I need all these, and what else do I need to get it working, please? It's all rather confusing! Many thanks Keith
Keith, On Saturday 28 August 2004 10:51, Keith Powell wrote:
I have been reading the postings about Red Carpet and would like to try it, but I know very little about it.
Google doesn't help, ...
Try this: http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/update.html and use the pop-up and push-button at the bottom of the page.
...
It's all rather confusing!
Many thanks
Keith
Randall Schulz
On Saturday 28 August 2004 01:51 pm, Keith Powell wrote:
I have been reading the postings about Red Carpet and would like to try it, but I know very little about it.
Google doesn't help, and RPMFind lists:
libredcrpet-tools, libredcarpet-python, and libredcarpet - all libraries.
Do I need all these, and what else do I need to get it working, please?
It's all rather confusing!
Many thanks
Keith
Go to www.novell.com and dig a lot. You will need just three RPM's (for 9.1) rcd-2.2.0-0.ximian.9.5.i586.rpm red-carpet-2.2.3-0.ximian.9.0.i586.rpm rug-2.2.0-0.ximian.9.0.i586.rpm -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 08/28/04 13:06 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ "I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out."
Op zaterdag 28 augustus 2004 19:51, schreef Keith Powell:
I have been reading the postings about Red Carpet and would like to try it, but I know very little about it.
Google doesn't help, and RPMFind lists:
libredcrpet-tools, libredcarpet-python, and libredcarpet - all libraries.
Do I need all these, and what else do I need to get it working, please?
It's all rather confusing!
Many thanks
Keith
Just execute: apt --no-checksig install http://www-files.ximian.com/redcarpet2/suse-91-i586/{rcd-2.2.0-0.ximian.9.5.i586.rpm,red-carpet-2.2.3-0.ximian.9.0.i586.rpm,rug-2.2.0-0.ximian.9.0.i586.rpm} Or if apt doe not work for you change apt for wget: wget http://www-files.ximian.com/redcarpet2/suse-91-i586/{rcd-2.2.0-0.ximian.9.5.i586.rpm,red-carpet-2.2.3-0.ximian.9.0.i586.rpm,rug-2.2.0-0.ximian.9.0.i586.rpm} and install the downloaded rpm manually. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
Thank you Randall, Bruce and Richard to pointing me to the Novell or Ximian sites for downloading Red Carpet. I was looking in the wrong place! It's now installed and ready for trying (and comparing with Synaptic). Cheers Keith
On Saturday 28 Aug 2004 23:09, Richard Bos wrote:
Op zaterdag 28 augustus 2004 22:01, schreef Keith Powell:
It's now installed and ready for trying (and comparing with Synaptic).
It would be interesting to know, what you like prefer and why.
I will try Red Carpet for a few days (still getting to grips with it) and then I will let you know. Perhaps, Richard, it would be a good idea to let you know off-list. It may start a Synaptic v. Red Carpet "war" if I replied on-list, with those who think one is excellent and the other rubbish, having a go at each other. I wouldn't want to do that and disturb the peace and tranquility of the list :-) Cheers Keith
Op zondag 29 augustus 2004 11:13, schreef Keith Powell:
I will try Red Carpet for a few days (still getting to grips with it) and then I will let you know.
Perhaps, Richard, it would be a good idea to let you know off-list. It may start a Synaptic v. Red Carpet "war" if I replied on-list, with those who think one is excellent and the other rubbish, having a go at each other. I wouldn't want to do that and disturb the peace and tranquility of the list :-)
Just reply to the list. If it results in a firm discussion ;) so be it. Don't forget there is also yum, kynaptic, kapture, kpackage, Yast/YOU, etc. -- Richard Bos Without a home the journey is endless
participants (15)
-
Anders Johansson -
Bob Rea -
Bruce Marshall -
Erik Bågfors -
Fred Miller -
Gil Weber -
Gordon Keehn -
Jim Sabatke -
Keith Powell -
Matthew -
Mike McMullin -
Randall R Schulz -
Randy Dees -
Richard Bos -
Scott Leighton