[opensuse] Windows XP, 11.2, and Seagate HDs - sort of....
I apologise for the following longish message which, possibly, may belong in the off-topic list... but also doesn't belong there.... Please bear with me.. Back last May I bought 2 brand new, "matched", Seagate 160GB HDs. There was no way I could install 11.2 MS-anything or RC-anything on one of them. It would *"install"* but at the first boot grub could not find the operating system. Doing some testing on the HD came up with contrary results: one set of tools showed that there was nothing wrong with the HD (using Seagate's SeaTools) but then using the Windows Scandisk from a bootable floppy showed that there were bad sectors at the start of the HD. OK, I put this HD away, and now the shop were I bought it will replace the HD when I take it back. Fine. However, the second Seagate appears to be OK, and I used it for my wife's computer last weekend to install 11.2. All went well, and she now has 11.2. *But*, it takes forever for 11.2 to boot on her machine :-( . And after it does, the "HD in use" light remains ON. When I then reboot and check the file system (default, ext4), using "e2fsck -p /dev/sda1", shows that there is no problem with the file system, the "HD in use" light stops being on for the rest of the day while the computer is in use. My concern now is: is there a problem with *this* Seagate HD which should also be replaced by the shop or is there something else which needs to be done to stop the "HD in use" light showing? The second hassle. A couple of weeks ago, when I was interstate, I bought a couple of 500GB Western Digital HDs. These are now the ones which have 11.2 installed on them, and they are working fine... with a possible qualification. The qualification is that I installed XP SP2 to start with, before installing oS 11.2, and created my "usual" ntfs partitions on both HDs. No drama here. However, I also have an external 500GB Maxtor USB drive - factory formatted in ntfs- which I use for backing-up files both from both Linux and 'old' installation/s of XP (residing on other set/s of HDs). The problem - which has me totally bamboozled - is that I can copy, using mc (midnight commander), files from the 'old' installation/s of XP to the external USB and then can copy using mc from the external Maxtor to the partitions on the new installation of XP.... *BUT* I am unable to copy the same files from external USB Maxtor to the new XP installation using anything from within the newly installed XP :-( : there is a "pretend" copy of the first couple of files but then the whole process slows to ~20kb/s, and in the final result NOTHING has been copied- the file name/s contain/s 0 bytes. The error message in XP is, if I recall correctly, is along the lines of, "cannot write to the destination <disk/directory>" or similar. I have done chkdsk <X>: /f on all of the partitions while in XP and all partitions (including the external Maxtor) have no errors Sorry about asking about this here, but if you can throw some light on this hassle of mine I'd be most grateful. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/10/2009 04:52 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
However, the second Seagate appears to be OK, and I used it for my wife's computer last weekend to install 11.2. All went well, and she now has 11.2.
*But*, it takes forever for 11.2 to boot on her machine :-( . And after it does, the "HD in use" light remains ON.
Cabling and Bios Settings is my bet. It could also be that the disk drivers are not getting properly loaded the firs time you boot up in the morning due to the drives not being ready immediately, which again sounds like cabling and bios settings. There may also be some jumpers on the drive, although you didn't mention what cable interface these drives use.
My concern now is: is there a problem with *this* Seagate HD which should also be replaced by the shop or is there something else which needs to be done to stop the "HD in use" light showing?
I'm betting you have two GOOD drives. Any chance of finding another computer to test these on?
The problem - which has me totally bamboozled - is that I can copy, using mc (midnight commander), files from the 'old' installation/s of XP to the external USB and then can copy using mc from the external Maxtor to the partitions on the new installation of XP.... *BUT* I am unable to copy the same files from external USB Maxtor to the new XP installation using anything from within the newly installed XP :-( : there is a "pretend" copy of the first couple of files but then the whole process slows to ~20kb/s, and in the final result NOTHING has been copied- the file name/s contain/s 0 bytes. The error message in XP is, if I recall correctly, is along the lines of, "cannot write to the destination <disk/directory>" or similar.
XP driver problem. See if there is a "legacy" driver for XP for that USB controller. (There may be a bios setting for this as well). I had a similar problem with disks in a Firewire external enclosure. Copy would start, slow to nill, and maybe pickup again, but only when using Vista or Windows 7. With OpenSuse it was very fast. Microsoft Tech support suggested finding which Firewire controller it was attached to, and choosing the "Show me the list and let me select" option, and picking the legacy driver. That fixed it and the Windows 7 machine copies 30% faster than the Linux machine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/11/09 13:34, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/10/2009 04:52 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
However, the second Seagate appears to be OK, and I used it for my wife's computer last weekend to install 11.2. All went well, and she now has 11.2.
*But*, it takes forever for 11.2 to boot on her machine :-( . And after it does, the "HD in use" light remains ON.
Cabling and Bios Settings is my bet. It could also be that the disk drivers are not getting properly loaded the firs time you boot up in the morning due to the drives not being ready immediately, which again sounds like cabling and bios settings.
There may also be some jumpers on the drive, although you didn't mention what cable interface these drives use.
My concern now is: is there a problem with *this* Seagate HD which should also be replaced by the shop or is there something else which needs to be done to stop the "HD in use" light showing?
I'm betting you have two GOOD drives. Any chance of finding another computer to test these on?
The problem - which has me totally bamboozled - is that I can copy, using mc (midnight commander), files from the 'old' installation/s of XP to the external USB and then can copy using mc from the external Maxtor to the partitions on the new installation of XP.... *BUT* I am unable to copy the same files from external USB Maxtor to the new XP installation using anything from within the newly installed XP :-( : there is a "pretend" copy of the first couple of files but then the whole process slows to ~20kb/s, and in the final result NOTHING has been copied- the file name/s contain/s 0 bytes. The error message in XP is, if I recall correctly, is along the lines of, "cannot write to the destination <disk/directory>" or similar.
XP driver problem. See if there is a "legacy" driver for XP for that USB controller. (There may be a bios setting for this as well).
I had a similar problem with disks in a Firewire external enclosure. Copy would start, slow to nill, and maybe pickup again, but only when using Vista or Windows 7. With OpenSuse it was very fast. Microsoft Tech support suggested finding which Firewire controller it was attached to, and choosing the "Show me the list and let me select" option, and picking the legacy driver. That fixed it and the Windows 7 machine copies 30% faster than the Linux machine.
Thanks, John, for the input. I'll mull it all over and respond in detail later. I felt that I needed to say something now so that you didn't think I ignored your post. The HDs are PATA, sitting in cradles so that I can move them from computer to computer - or to the secured area when we leave the house unattended for a few days :-) . oS installed on an (ancient) Quantum Fireball with same cabling setup works perfectly on my wife's computer. Go figure. Re the XP/external Maxtor: SP2 for XP has the "fix" for USB 2. I have used another Maxtor in an external casing until very recently when I bought the present external 500GB Maxtor. I'll check out the driver factor, but was also wondering if there had been a change to the ntfs since XP came out - but I see that according to the wikipedia there has not been any changes. At this point I am leaning towards Mike's suggestion about permissions..... This is the first time I am fooling around with installing XP for many a year so perhaps I stuffed up with not allowing "myself" access to all the files :-) . Or, because the 500GB Maxtor came as a factory formatted drive perhaps the glitch is being caused at this source. In the final analysis, I can copy all the files using mc so the problem can be pushed back, until I use the new Maxtor for backups of something from (the new install of) XP :-) . I'll get back to you re this. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 2009/11/11 22:41 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
oS installed on an (ancient) Quantum Fireball with same cabling setup works perfectly on my wife's computer. Go figure.
The original Fireballs predated the ATA specs which dictated use of 80 wire PATA cables for proper operation and so are less likely to suffer from cabling that would be substandard for a considerably newer HD. -- The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 1 Corinthians 7:3 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/11/09 23:03, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2009/11/11 22:41 (GMT+1100) Basil Chupin composed:
oS installed on an (ancient) Quantum Fireball with same cabling setup works perfectly on my wife's computer. Go figure.
The original Fireballs predated the ATA specs which dictated use of 80 wire PATA cables for proper operation and so are less likely to suffer from cabling that would be substandard for a considerably newer HD.
Understand. My wife is now using my "backup" computer on which I ran various versions of oS, including 11.0, using Seagates and Maxtors of various sizes and of various vintages (including a *300MB* one which I bought back in ~1987 and which cost me an arm and a leg at the time. Still have it; still works AFAIK) :-) . Never a hiccup. (I installed oS 11.1 on her computer using the Fireball as an interim measure 'cause I had plans for the other HDs I have and also knew that I was going to get more HDs (as it turned to be...) the Seagate 160GBs - the second one of which is now suss. Why use something 'serious' when she's only "the wife" [joke, Joyce, it's only a joke!] :-D ) I took the problematic Seagate I mention across to my computer last night and installed 11.2 on it. Installs OK, but at the first boot the error message comes up that grub could not find an operating system! :-( . It boots OK on my old 'backup' computer now used by my wife - but it does a long time to boot there, and then the HD light stays on (which I described in an earlier post). But grub can't even find a Linux partition on the Seagate installed on my computer -- go figure. The bottom line then is becoming clear: that I bought a couple of Seagates from a batch of faulty Seagates - in much the same way that Western Digital a few years ago produced a batch of HDs which were manufactured...well....'not quite up to standards'. *Nevertheless*, as Patrick would state, as he did to someone else only early today, I belong to that group of masochists who keeps persevering, and I will be bringing across another computer, from another room, on which I will use this suss Seagate to install 11.2. It's not really that I am being masochistic, it's just that I always like to check out all the options before concluding that the situation is not resolvable. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 15:29 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
*Nevertheless*, as Patrick would state, as he did to someone else only early today, I belong to that group of masochists who keeps persevering, and I will be bringing across another computer, from another room, on which I will use this suss Seagate to install 11.2. It's not really that I am being masochistic, it's just that I always like to check out all the options before concluding that the situation is not resolvable.
BC
Use it up, wear it out. Make it do, or do without. Mark -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/11/09 13:34, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/10/2009 04:52 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
However, the second Seagate appears to be OK, and I used it for my wife's computer last weekend to install 11.2. All went well, and she now has 11.2.
*But*, it takes forever for 11.2 to boot on her machine :-( . And after it does, the "HD in use" light remains ON.
Cabling and Bios Settings is my bet. It could also be that the disk drivers are not getting properly loaded the firs time you boot up in the morning due to the drives not being ready immediately, which again sounds like cabling and bios settings.
There may also be some jumpers on the drive, although you didn't mention what cable interface these drives use. [pruned]
John, see my response just posted to Felix on this topic (at least about oS 11.2/ the Seagate HDs; the XP/external HD is yet to be tested and resolved). BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/11/09 13:34, John Andersen wrote:
On 11/10/2009 04:52 AM, Basil Chupin wrote:
However, the second Seagate appears to be OK, and I used it for my wife's computer last weekend to install 11.2. All went well, and she now has 11.2.
*But*, it takes forever for 11.2 to boot on her machine :-( . And after it does, the "HD in use" light remains ON.
Cabling and Bios Settings is my bet. It could also be that the disk drivers are not getting properly loaded the firs time you boot up in the morning due to the drives not being ready immediately, which again sounds like cabling and bios settings.
There may also be some jumpers on the drive, although you didn't mention what cable interface these drives use.
My concern now is: is there a problem with *this* Seagate HD which should also be replaced by the shop or is there something else which needs to be done to stop the "HD in use" light showing?
I'm betting you have two GOOD drives. Any chance of finding another computer to test these on?
Replying to something from "long past" :-) . Regrettably, no matter what I have patiently tried to do with these drives I cannot make them run a Linux system or XP :-( . Wiping the drives with the Seagate Sea Tools and allowing openSUSE, for example, to "do what-it-has-to-do" to install, with no manual configuration of partitions or where grug should go, gets it installed - but then on boot-up it takes something like 4+ minutes (my wife tells me) to boot. I replace the 160GB Seagate(s) with a 200GB Maxtor HD, which I bought last year for backups, and, without any altering anything, oS installs and boots up normally in about a minute. Now I am happy and my wife is happy :-) . The Seagates are going back for replacement early next year when I am again interstate. A bad batch I feel. BC -- If you don't succeed you run the risk of failure. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 23:52 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
I apologise for the following longish message which, possibly, may belong in the off-topic list... but also doesn't belong there.... Please bear with me..
{snip}
The second hassle.
A couple of weeks ago, when I was interstate, I bought a couple of 500GB Western Digital HDs. These are now the ones which have 11.2 installed on them, and they are working fine... with a possible qualification.
The qualification is that I installed XP SP2 to start with, before installing oS 11.2, and created my "usual" ntfs partitions on both HDs. No drama here.
However, I also have an external 500GB Maxtor USB drive - factory formatted in ntfs- which I use for backing-up files both from both Linux and 'old' installation/s of XP (residing on other set/s of HDs).
Home or Pro? I know someone who had a quite similar problem and it turned out to be permission/ownership in Windows.
The problem - which has me totally bamboozled - is that I can copy, using mc (midnight commander), files from the 'old' installation/s of XP to the external USB and then can copy using mc from the external Maxtor to the partitions on the new installation of XP.... *BUT* I am unable to copy the same files from external USB Maxtor to the new XP installation using anything from within the newly installed XP :-( : there is a "pretend" copy of the first couple of files but then the whole process slows to ~20kb/s, and in the final result NOTHING has been copied- the file name/s contain/s 0 bytes. The error message in XP is, if I recall correctly, is along the lines of, "cannot write to the destination <disk/directory>" or similar.
I have done chkdsk <X>: /f on all of the partitions while in XP and all partitions (including the external Maxtor) have no errors
Sorry about asking about this here, but if you can throw some light on this hassle of mine I'd be most grateful.
BC
-- I work to live not live to work.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 11/11/09 16:58, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 23:52 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
I apologise for the following longish message which, possibly, may belong in the off-topic list... but also doesn't belong there.... Please bear with me..
{snip}
The second hassle.
A couple of weeks ago, when I was interstate, I bought a couple of 500GB Western Digital HDs. These are now the ones which have 11.2 installed on them, and they are working fine... with a possible qualification.
The qualification is that I installed XP SP2 to start with, before installing oS 11.2, and created my "usual" ntfs partitions on both HDs. No drama here.
However, I also have an external 500GB Maxtor USB drive - factory formatted in ntfs- which I use for backing-up files both from both Linux and 'old' installation/s of XP (residing on other set/s of HDs).
Home or Pro? I know someone who had a quite similar problem and it turned out to be permission/ownership in Windows.
Pro. I had a gut feeling that this is where the problem may lie and I will now have a close look at what I set up during the installation. Many thanks for your response. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 22:46 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 11/11/09 16:58, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 23:52 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
I apologise for the following longish message which, possibly, may belong in the off-topic list... but also doesn't belong there.... Please bear with me..
{snip}
The second hassle.
A couple of weeks ago, when I was interstate, I bought a couple of 500GB Western Digital HDs. These are now the ones which have 11.2 installed on them, and they are working fine... with a possible qualification.
The qualification is that I installed XP SP2 to start with, before installing oS 11.2, and created my "usual" ntfs partitions on both HDs. No drama here.
However, I also have an external 500GB Maxtor USB drive - factory formatted in ntfs- which I use for backing-up files both from both Linux and 'old' installation/s of XP (residing on other set/s of HDs).
Home or Pro? I know someone who had a quite similar problem and it turned out to be permission/ownership in Windows.
Pro.
I had a gut feeling that this is where the problem may lie and I will now have a close look at what I set up during the installation.
Many thanks for your response.
His original HD was set up under Pro. He did tell me that he got it to work, but could not remember what solution worked, I figured he fired a try this/that/other thing volley at it until it resolved. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 12/11/09 15:42, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Wed, 2009-11-11 at 22:46 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 11/11/09 16:58, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-10 at 23:52 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
I apologise for the following longish message which, possibly, may belong in the off-topic list... but also doesn't belong there.... Please bear with me..
{snip}
The second hassle.
A couple of weeks ago, when I was interstate, I bought a couple of 500GB Western Digital HDs. These are now the ones which have 11.2 installed on them, and they are working fine... with a possible qualification.
The qualification is that I installed XP SP2 to start with, before installing oS 11.2, and created my "usual" ntfs partitions on both HDs. No drama here.
However, I also have an external 500GB Maxtor USB drive - factory formatted in ntfs- which I use for backing-up files both from both Linux and 'old' installation/s of XP (residing on other set/s of HDs).
Home or Pro? I know someone who had a quite similar problem and it turned out to be permission/ownership in Windows.
Pro.
I had a gut feeling that this is where the problem may lie and I will now have a close look at what I set up during the installation.
Many thanks for your response.
His original HD was set up under Pro. He did tell me that he got it to work, but could not remember what solution worked, I figured he fired a try this/that/other thing volley at it until it resolved.
Thanks, Mike, I'll look at this again at the first opportunity. Since everything is really backed up I may even simply start from scratch...and let 'nature takes its' course' - so to speak. I did consider that the MS version of ntfs had again changed with the introduction of Vista (like it did in XP from NT) but I have not this to be case so permissions seem to be cause of my problem. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 15:43 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 12/11/09 15:42, Mike McMullin wrote:
I had a gut feeling that this is where the problem may lie and I will now have a close look at what I set up during the installation.
Many thanks for your response.
His original HD was set up under Pro. He did tell me that he got it to work, but could not remember what solution worked, I figured he fired a try this/that/other thing volley at it until it resolved.
Thanks, Mike, I'll look at this again at the first opportunity.
Since everything is really backed up I may even simply start from scratch...and let 'nature takes its' course' - so to speak.
I did consider that the MS version of ntfs had again changed with the introduction of Vista (like it did in XP from NT) but I have not this to be case so permissions seem to be cause of my problem.
If it's the case, please let me know how to resolve it, though I'd think that using the Administration profile ought to be able to access anyones files. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 13/11/09 17:04, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 15:43 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 12/11/09 15:42, Mike McMullin wrote:
I had a gut feeling that this is where the problem may lie and I will now have a close look at what I set up during the installation.
Many thanks for your response.
His original HD was set up under Pro. He did tell me that he got it to work, but could not remember what solution worked, I figured he fired a try this/that/other thing volley at it until it resolved.
Thanks, Mike, I'll look at this again at the first opportunity.
Since everything is really backed up I may even simply start from scratch...and let 'nature takes its' course' - so to speak.
I did consider that the MS version of ntfs had again changed with the introduction of Vista (like it did in XP from NT) but I have not this to be case so permissions seem to be cause of my problem.
If it's the case, please let me know how to resolve it, though I'd think that using the Administration profile ought to be able to access anyones files.
Shall do as soon as I find the answer. BC -- I work to live not live to work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On 13/11/09 17:04, Mike McMullin wrote:
On Fri, 2009-11-13 at 15:43 +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 12/11/09 15:42, Mike McMullin wrote:
I had a gut feeling that this is where the problem may lie and I will now have a close look at what I set up during the installation.
Many thanks for your response.
His original HD was set up under Pro. He did tell me that he got it to work, but could not remember what solution worked, I figured he fired a try this/that/other thing volley at it until it resolved.
Thanks, Mike, I'll look at this again at the first opportunity.
Since everything is really backed up I may even simply start from scratch...and let 'nature takes its' course' - so to speak.
I did consider that the MS version of ntfs had again changed with the introduction of Vista (like it did in XP from NT) but I have not this to be case so permissions seem to be cause of my problem.
If it's the case, please let me know how to resolve it, though I'd think that using the Administration profile ought to be able to access anyones files.
OK, here is how I solved it. It does have to do with what we know in Linux as permissions. This should do it: Start/Control Panel/Folder Options/View/ *untick* (ie deselect) Use Simple File Sharing (Recommended) If not then also check: Start/My Computer/ then right-click on each HD icon and select Properties/Security and make sure that the <user/user group> has access to the HD to read/write. BC -- The best defence against logic is ignorance. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Basil Chupin -
Felix Miata -
John Andersen -
Mark Misulich -
Mike McMullin