[opensuse]KDE4 - What people like/dislike about it
Since everyone seems to be just bashing KDE4(which I am guilty of) or raving about it, I thought I would post what I don't like about KDE4: 1. It's SLOW! - KDE4 is "supposed" to be faster and require less resources than KDE3.x. WRONG! I am running KDE v3.5.9 on this Thinkpad 390X(P3/500 Neomagic 256 w/ 2.5MB VRAM) and it was VERY SLOW. I also have it on my Celeron DC system(E1200 OC'd to 3.2Ghz) with an ATI X300(PCIe) and it's definately slower on that system than KDE3. Do I need some new video card to make this faster statement true? And if so, WHY? 2. It's too Vista-like! - If I wanted Vista, I would run it. Having icons "jump" at me and do strange things isn't what I expect out of KDE. I've used KDE since SuSE v5.3, and this "change" is in the wrong direction, IMHO. 3. It's not Complete - People continue to point this out. If it's not complete, then WHY is it that there is only a KDE4 liveCD? That makes no sense. 4. The KDE4 versions of a lot of stuff are way too different. - As an example, look at how different even the games like Mahjongg look. I stand by what I have experienced - KDE4 is just not good enough right now, and I really don't understand this huge push to make it work. Anyone who disagrees, please feel free to show me the error of my ways. But, so long as it runs slower on my CHOICE of hardware, then I see no benefit to using it. Faster and less resources were promised. What happened? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
1. It's SLOW! - KDE4 is "supposed" to be faster and require less resources than KDE3.x.
Interesting. I find that it is actually running better and slightly faster than KDE3.5.9. I am not running either version of KDE on a low spec machine like what you describe though. But... on the same machine, I test things in KDE3 and then in KDE4, and I find things seem smoother on KDE4... with desktop effects turned off of course (desktop effects work fine, but I find they slow down desktop switching when I am doing important things like playing World of Warcraft).
2. It's too Vista-like! - If I wanted Vista, I would run it. Having icons "jump" at me and do strange things isn't what I expect out of KDE. I've used KDE since SuSE v5.3, and this "change" is in the wrong direction, IMHO.
What jumping? None of my icons jump in KDE4 any more than they did in KDE3.5.9. The behavior seems to be pretty much identical. Little bouncing icon for starting an app... was there in 3.5 as well... otherwise.... ?? Turn on Compiz, and it works fine... and does the same silly things as it does in 3.5.9. There are a few other graphical touches (flourishes?) here and there, but they were/are available in KDE 3.5.9 as well.
3. It's not Complete - People continue to point this out. If it's not complete, then WHY is it that there is only a KDE4 liveCD? That makes no sense.
That was explained in an earlier message somewhere on the mailing list. Limited resources. They could only make one KDE and one Gnome Live CD.. so KDE4 was picked for the KDE CD.
4. The KDE4 versions of a lot of stuff are way too different. - As an example, look at how different even the games like Mahjongg look.
And? You around when we moved from KDE2 to KDE3 right (you said you've been using SUSE since 5.3)... Same there. Things looked very different with that transition too. The new KDE desktop is crisper, fonts are sharper, the graphics are less 1970's in KDE4 (steel grey and based on a 1960's menu structure that was efficient for text based terminals but not for a proper GUI).
I stand by what I have experienced - KDE4 is just not good enough right now, and I really don't understand this huge push to make it work.
So, you're suggesting that no one makes it work? That we all just peek at it from afar and murmur like a bunch of old men to each other about how different it is, and reminisce about how good things were when we were young? Or should at least some of us use it, and help make it better? I vote for making it better. If KDE4 isn't good enough for you right now, then don't use it... use KDE3.5.9. It works. it didn't stop working with the release of openSUSE11.0. it is still a fully supported GUI. You will have to accept the fact though that development will not stagnate and halt. Just as KDE2 was dropped in favor of KDE3... so will KDE3 for KDE4... not with 11.0.. probably not with 11.1... but eventually, and just like with the move from KDE2 to KDE3, there will be changes in the way things are done, and the way people work with the GUI.
my ways. But, so long as it runs slower on my CHOICE of hardware, then I see no benefit to using it. Faster and less resources were promised. What happened?
Have you updated to 4.0.84? That makes a HUGE difference in the performance of KDE4. It is a lot better... not perfect, but much much better. IF KDE4 keeps improving at this rate, it won't be long until it's "right". I am using KDE4 now as my everyday desktop. I have only 6 issues that I haven't resolved, and generally speaking they are quite minor.. and a couple seem to be specific to me and my computer... maybe artifacts left over from a previous install. Comparing with a friend who also installed 11.0 with KDE4, he doesn't have the same problems... Anyway, point being that after a day to adjust to the way KDE4 works, and then a weekend of actually using it, I have little complaint. It works, it's fast, it looks "right" to me now that I have picked a desktop theme I like... I love the widgets... there are some really nice ones available on KDE-Look.org, and even some of the built in ones are quite useful. I have yet to see any issue in KDE4 that is worth all the wailing and moaning that has been going on here on the mailing list. There are problems, but there were probs with KDE3 as well. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:25 AM, Clayton
Interesting. I find that it is actually running better and slightly faster than KDE3.5.9. I am not running either version of KDE on a low spec machine like what you describe though. But... on the same machine, I test things in KDE3 and then in KDE4, and I find things seem smoother on KDE4... with desktop effects turned off of course (desktop effects work fine, but I find they slow down desktop switching when I am doing important things like playing World of Warcraft).
I haven't gotten far enough with it yet to turn off all the new "features". Maybe that's where I'm running into the slowdown.
What jumping? None of my icons jump in KDE4 any more than they did in KDE3.5.9. The behavior seems to be pretty much identical. Little bouncing icon for starting an app... was there in 3.5 as well... otherwise.... ?? Turn on Compiz, and it works fine... and does the same silly things as it does in 3.5.9. There are a few other graphical touches (flourishes?) here and there, but they were/are available in KDE 3.5.9 as well.
The "widgets?" I duno, whatever it is that "jumps" up around the icon when you hover over it. It's as annoying as that icon mouseover effect that is the default for the taskbar icons. Also, a reviewer pointed out that why the icons have extra buttons now. That's what the right mouse button is for.
That was explained in an earlier message somewhere on the mailing list. Limited resources. They could only make one KDE and one Gnome Live CD.. so KDE4 was picked for the KDE CD.
But if the LiveCD is to chowcase the distro, why use a version that is obviously lacking. They've backported so many KDE4 features into the KDE3 desktop as it is. The devs are basically saying: KDE4 is still a work in progress, but we think it's good enough to make a livecd version. That's sending a mixed message to say the least.
And? You around when we moved from KDE2 to KDE3 right (you said you've been using SUSE since 5.3)... Same there. Things looked very different with that transition too.
Actually, not so much. I just installed SuSE v7.3 w/ KDE2 on an old laptop, and it's not that much different from KDE3. Nowhere near as different as KDE4 is from KDE3.
The new KDE desktop is crisper, fonts are sharper, the graphics are less 1970's in KDE4 (steel grey and based on a 1960's menu structure that was efficient for text based terminals but not for a proper GUI).
I prefered KDE over gnome because it was a lot like OS/2's Workplace Shell. It worked the way I expected a desktop to work. I having nothing against improvements, but I don't see KDE3 as being that deficient.
So, you're suggesting that no one makes it work? That we all just peek at it from afar and murmur like a bunch of old men to each other about how different it is, and reminisce about how good things were when we were young? Or should at least some of us use it, and help make it better? I vote for making it better.
I'd be happy to use it, but if it gets in my way of getting stuff done, then it takes away from my time. I'm happy to beta test, but I generally focus on the areas I use.
Have you updated to 4.0.84? That makes a HUGE difference in the performance of KDE4. It is a lot better... not perfect, but much much better. IF KDE4 keeps improving at this rate, it won't be long until it's "right".
If it's not available as an update to the distro, then no. I don't mess with updating a lot of my packages to non distro provided. I've always found that stuff breaks when you do that.
I am using KDE4 now as my everyday desktop. I have only 6 issues that I haven't resolved, and generally speaking they are quite minor.. and a couple seem to be specific to me and my computer... maybe artifacts left over from a previous install. Comparing with a friend who also installed 11.0 with KDE4, he doesn't have the same problems...
Good to hear it works from you.
Anyway, point being that after a day to adjust to the way KDE4 works, and then a weekend of actually using it, I have little complaint. It works, it's fast, it looks "right" to me now that I have picked a desktop theme I like... I love the widgets... there are some really nice ones available on KDE-Look.org, and even some of the built in ones are quite useful. I have yet to see any issue in KDE4 that is worth all the wailing and moaning that has been going on here on the mailing list. There are problems, but there were probs with KDE3 as well.
Hmmm, see, I'm not a big glitz and bling fan. To me, widgets are a way to solve a problem that doesn't exist. The basic problem is that too many things are being pushed out unready and then we have to struggle until it gets fixed(like openSUSE v10.1) What was the old DIsh Network joke about people wanting to beta test? If you're already a subscriber, then you are already enrolled.... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I haven't gotten far enough with it yet to turn off all the new "features". Maybe that's where I'm running into the slowdown.
Well... desktop effects should be off by default. So that should in theory be the case for you too.
The "widgets?" I duno, whatever it is that "jumps" up around the icon when you hover over it. It's as annoying as that icon mouseover
Ah ok. Well once you set things up the way you like, you can lock the widgets and the flashy bits - at least some (most) - are reduced... a lot.
Have you updated to 4.0.84? That makes a HUGE difference in the performance of KDE4. It is a lot better... not perfect, but much much better. IF KDE4 keeps improving at this rate, it won't be long until it's "right".
If it's not available as an update to the distro, then no. I don't mess with updating a lot of my packages to non distro provided. I've always found that stuff breaks when you do that.
Here in the mailing lists and pretty much anywhere you look, the recommendation is to add the KDE4:UNSTABLE repository and update from that. I've done that and, like I said before, things improved dramatically.
Hmmm, see, I'm not a big glitz and bling fan. To me, widgets are a way to solve a problem that doesn't exist.
:-) Kind of like Compiz. The widgets are not 100% yet. In the end, the widgets will be a nice handy feature.... C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
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Larry Stotler wrote:
| On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:25 AM, Clayton
On Mon June 30 2008 12:01:14 am Larry Stotler wrote:
Since everyone seems to be just bashing KDE4(which I am guilty of) or raving about it, I thought I would post what I don't like about KDE4:
1. It's SLOW! - KDE4 is "supposed" to be faster and require less resources than KDE3.x. WRONG! I am running KDE v3.5.9 on this Thinkpad 390X(P3/500 Neomagic 256 w/ 2.5MB VRAM) and it was VERY SLOW. I also have it on my Celeron DC system(E1200 OC'd to 3.2Ghz) with an ATI X300(PCIe) and it's definately slower on that system than KDE3. Do I need some new video card to make this faster statement true? And if so, WHY?
2. It's too Vista-like! - If I wanted Vista, I would run it. Having icons "jump" at me and do strange things isn't what I expect out of KDE. I've used KDE since SuSE v5.3, and this "change" is in the wrong direction, IMHO.
3. It's not Complete - People continue to point this out. If it's not complete, then WHY is it that there is only a KDE4 liveCD? That makes no sense.
4. The KDE4 versions of a lot of stuff are way too different. - As an example, look at how different even the games like Mahjongg look.
I stand by what I have experienced - KDE4 is just not good enough right now, and I really don't understand this huge push to make it work. Anyone who disagrees, please feel free to show me the error of my ways. But, so long as it runs slower on my CHOICE of hardware, then I see no benefit to using it. Faster and less resources were promised. What happened? Hello,
Firstly, I am not a power user and mostly use linux as a hobbyist, so my view is probably different. Secondly, I found KDE4 to be quite fast, smooth, and the perfect desktop for my Toshiba A135-S4427. Even the "unfinishwed" kde4pim runs well enough for me. I find it to run as fast as, if not faster than, kde 3.5.9. Obviously, YMMV --Keith -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Keith B. Boykin
Firstly, I am not a power user and mostly use linux as a hobbyist, so my view is probably different.
That's what makes Linux so great.
Secondly, I found KDE4 to be quite fast, smooth, and the perfect desktop for my Toshiba A135-S4427. Even the "unfinishwed" kde4pim runs well enough for me. I find it to run as fast as, if not faster than, kde 3.5.9.
But, what kind of hardware are you using? I'm trying to track down whether KDE4 works better on better video cards. If so, then the KDE team needs to work better at optimizing, because not everyone has a shiny new 3d card, nor needs one.
Obviously, YMMV
Totally agree on that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
But, what kind of hardware are you using? I'm trying to track down whether KDE4 works better on better video cards. If so, then the KDE team needs to work better at optimizing, because not everyone has a shiny new 3d card, nor needs one.
My main desktop is running on an AMD 6400+, 4GB RAM, and an nVidia 8600GT. KDE4 has no speed issues there. In comparison, I have been running KDE4 in a VirtualBox session (set to single CPU, 1GB RAM and 128MB video), and it has no issues there either (I don't use the desktop effects in either case). The VBox video card is definitely not a high performance one.... and I can't say that I've noticed any speed issues. I can look again tonight though. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Clayton -
Keith B. Boykin -
Larry Stotler -
Rick Friedman