Hi, Some keep chastising questions of substance about SuSE Linux 10.1 posted to this list, saying repeatedly that this list is about "the community." I, for the life of me, have no idea what this means. What's OK to discuss here? How things are going with the spouse and kids? How well groomed the local parks are? Whether the potholes are getting dealt with? Whether the cops are stopping people from speeding in the school zone next door? Whether trash pickup is prompt? How long the lines are at city hall? Whether the public library is getting too run-down? Community is such a gawd-awful over-used word these days. Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 05:24:53PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
Some keep chastising questions of substance about SuSE Linux 10.1 posted to this list, saying repeatedly that this list is about "the community." I, for the life of me, have no idea what this means.
To me the openSUSE community (because I asume that is what we are talking about) are all people directly or indirecty involved with the use of SUSE. Devlopers and Users alike. http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#Mailing_Lists explains more what the subjects are for each list. HTH, HAND. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
houghi wrote:
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 05:24:53PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
Some keep chastising questions of substance about SuSE Linux 10.1 posted to this list, saying repeatedly that this list is about "the community." I, for the life of me, have no idea what this means.
To me the openSUSE community (because I asume that is what we are talking about) are all people directly or indirecty involved with the use of SUSE. Devlopers and Users alike.
http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#Mailing_Lists explains more what the subjects are for each list.
HTH, HAND.
houghi
Hi all, i agree with Houghi's (short but clean) definition. I'd like to add that the perception i have of the Community is, all in all, working on the project. At several layers, like programming, like using, but also like translating, like seeding heavy duty, like reporting bugs, like learning from the ones who know more, like to share with the ones who know less, like just to watch how things grow and try to add even more, like creating a huge, nice link between people. A Community. Last but not least, i think just spreading the word is the step beyond. Make a larger Community. And BTW, thanks to all of you that made my openSUSE experience more rich :-) Kind Regards, PatrickM
Hello, On Saturday 03 June 2006 17:42, houghi wrote:
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 05:24:53PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
Some keep chastising questions of substance about SuSE Linux 10.1 posted to this list, saying repeatedly that this list is about "the community." I, for the life of me, have no idea what this means.
To me the openSUSE community (because I asume that is what we are talking about) are all people directly or indirecty involved with the use of SUSE. Devlopers and Users alike.
Fine, but it doesn't answer the question about what's on-topic if questions about technological issues with SuSE Linux are not. Saying that it's supposed to be limited to issues of interest to or about "the community" is still unanswered.
http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#Mailing_Lists explains more what the subjects are for each list.
"General discussion about the openSUSE project and community only (name of the list "opensuse")." If discussion "about the openSUSE project" excludes issues with SuSE Linux, then what does that leave?
HTH...
Not really.
houghi
Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 07:51:59PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
To me the openSUSE community (because I asume that is what we are talking about) are all people directly or indirecty involved with the use of SUSE. Devlopers and Users alike.
Fine, but it doesn't answer the question about what's on-topic if questions about technological issues with SuSE Linux are not. Saying that it's supposed to be limited to issues of interest to or about "the community" is still unanswered.
To me it does answer just that question. Ok, I will try another aproach: The openSUSE community is the group of people that are involved, directly or indirectly, in the openSUSE project. No the question what is on-topic. Whjat is on-topic are discussions about the project and the community that maintains that project. There is a link to what the project exactly is and I asume you have read that. Somehow I am sure that you understand what the intention is and that you are just not happy with the definition, so how would YOU define it? houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 03 June 2006 20:23, houghi wrote:
...
Somehow I am sure that you understand what the intention is and that you are just not happy with the definition, so how would YOU define it?
I truly do not. I see no need whatsoever to have an email forum about "the community." There is a technology project and the valid topics should be that technology and its development. But when people ask questions about the end product, they're sent elsewhere. To me, this seems perverse. Perhaps you just want an exclusive club. That's fine. Just restrict membership and only let in people who are willing to restrict themselves chatting about "the community."
houghi
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On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 09:23:21PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
I truly do not. I see no need whatsoever to have an email forum about "the community."
OK. so you do not think that the community as such needs anything else?
There is a technology project and the valid topics should be that technology and its development. But when people ask questions about the end product, they're sent elsewhere. To me, this seems perverse.
There are a LOT of other issues that deal with the community that are not directly related to the product. Why is it so difficult to have just one place (suse-linux-e) that deals with technical issues? What is the need to have this list answer technical issues as well?
Perhaps you just want an exclusive club. That's fine. Just restrict membership and only let in people who are willing to restrict themselves chatting about "the community."
I do not want an exclusive club. I want a place where I can discuss community issues without them being drowned in technical issues. openSUSE is much more then just support for SUSE. If I have a desire to talk technical, I go to suse-linux-e or other places where it is apropriate. So where should these discussions about the openSUSE itself that are NOT directly related to SUSE Linux take place then? Perhaps you think here as well. Can I ask you, are you in general against different mailinglists, or do you think that everything should be in just one mailinglist? If you think it should be in one, then it will become so large nobody will be able to do anything with it. Most likely you agree that there should be some difference in mailinglists. As you do not agree with the current lists, how do you propose to solve it? houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 03 June 2006 21:42, houghi wrote:
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 09:23:21PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
I truly do not. I see no need whatsoever to have an email forum about "the community."
OK. so you do not think that the community as such needs anything else?
My god. What does "the community" need to discuss that's not what it's working on? Is this some kind of social club? Please give me some examples of non-technical, non-product issues that are pertinent topics of discussion in your conception of this list's charter.
There is a technology project and the valid topics should be that technology and its development. But when people ask questions about the end product, they're sent elsewhere. To me, this seems perverse.
There are a LOT of other issues that deal with the community that are not directly related to the product. Why is it so difficult to have just one place (suse-linux-e) that deals with technical issues? What is the need to have this list answer technical issues as well?
Could you suggest what some of these other issues are?
Perhaps you just want an exclusive club. That's fine. Just restrict membership and only let in people who are willing to restrict themselves chatting about "the community."
I do not want an exclusive club. I want a place where I can discuss community issues without them being drowned in technical issues. openSUSE is much more then just support for SUSE. If I have a desire to talk technical, I go to suse-linux-e or other places where it is apropriate.
SuSE Linux is a technology project. If anything is off-topic, it's the non-technical.
So where should these discussions about the openSUSE itself that are NOT directly related to SUSE Linux take place then? Perhaps you think here as well.
What are these things? What is openSUSE that is not also SuSE Linux? You steadfastly refuse to suggest to me what they might be. The only thing I can think of that would be off-topic here (besides non-technical issues, of course) is non-open-source software, which is strictly in the commercial Novell / SuSE Linux release.
Can I ask you, are you in general against different mailinglists, or do you think that everything should be in just one mailinglist? If you think it should be in one, then it will become so large nobody will be able to do anything with it.
I have yet to get any idea at all what people working on SuSE Linux want to talk about other than SuSE Linux. That is the only thing the people on this list have in common. What else should they discuss? Gardening? Poker? Bicycling? Child-rearing? So if you cannot tell me what this list is for other than to keep saying "community issues," then no. I don't think there needs to be two lists.
Most likely you agree that there should be some difference in mailinglists. As you do not agree with the current lists, how do you propose to solve it?
No. I certainly do not. SuSE Linux is a technology project. There's nothing else to discuss and I think that's made pretty clear by the fact that people keep coming here with technical questions. Sadly, they're now just handed copy and after copy of some boilerplate telling them to go somewhere else. Unless and until you can get specific about what non-technical issues you think this list should be used for, then I see no need for this list at all. Repeating "community issues" over and over does not answer the question.
houghi
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Randall R Schulz wrote:
My god. What does "the community" need to discuss that's not what it's working on? Is this some kind of social club? Please give me some examples of non-technical, non-product issues that are pertinent topics of discussion in your conception of this list's charter. <snip>
Funny you should ask this, in a thread discussing said nontechnical issue... Am I the only one to see the irony in that? :-) -- Regards Kenneth Aar
Randall R Schulz wrote:
My god. What does "the community" need to discuss that's not what it's working on? Is this some kind of social club? Please give me some examples of non-technical, non-product issues that are pertinent topics of discussion in your conception of this list's charter. <snip>
Funny you should ask this, in a thread discussing said nontechnical issue... Am I the only one to see the irony in that? :-) -- Regards Kenneth Aar
On Sunday 04 June 2006 07:15, Randall R Schulz wrote:
My god. What does "the community" need to discuss that's not what it's working on? Is this some kind of social club? Please give me some examples of non-technical, non-product issues that are pertinent topics of discussion in your conception of this list's charter.
Is SUSE Linux open enough? What is the scope for contribution to SUSE Linux by non Novell or SUSE employees? To what extent has the openSUSE.org or the openSUSE project/website/wiki contributed to the adoption of SUSE Linux? Are aspects of SUSE Linux being adversely affected by opening the development process or should it be more open? At what point does the interests of the wider SUSE community and users conflict with the business interests of Novell/SUSE?
SuSE Linux is a technology project. If anything is off-topic, it's the non-technical.
Correct SUSE Linux is a technical product, and there is already a list for technical questions about SUSE Linux so in fact technical questions on this list are offtopic. **** SUSE Linux != openSUSE.org ****
What are these things? What is openSUSE that is not also SuSE Linux? You steadfastly refuse to suggest to me what they might be. The only thing I can think of that would be off-topic here (besides non-technical issues, of course) is non-open-source software, which is strictly in the commercial Novell / SuSE Linux release.
You seem to be getting confused between an actual product/distro/release and a community project. If you really don't understand the concept of 'community project' then *shrug*
No. I certainly do not. SuSE Linux is a technology project. There's nothing else to discuss and I think that's made pretty clear by the fact that people keep coming here with technical questions. Sadly, they're now just handed copy and after copy of some boilerplate telling them to go somewhere else.
Again, SUSE Linux IS NOT THE SAME THING as openSUSE
Unless and until you can get specific about what non-technical issues you think this list should be used for, then I see no need for this list at all. Repeating "community issues" over and over does not answer the question.
If you cannot think of any non technical issues then what business do you have posting here and flaming others? Just because *you* see no need for this list doesn't mean that the need does not exist. If you cannot understand the concept of a community project, or you do not wish to participate in the openSUSE communitiy project you could at least respect the wishes of those that do. Cheers Graham --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Graham, On Sunday 04 June 2006 07:23, Graham Anderson wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 07:15, Randall R Schulz wrote:
My god. What does "the community" need to discuss that's not what it's working on? Is this some kind of social club? Please give me some examples of non-technical, non-product issues that are pertinent topics of discussion in your conception of this list's charter.
Is SUSE Linux open enough? What is the scope for contribution to SUSE Linux by non Novell or SUSE employees? To what extent has the openSUSE.org or the openSUSE project/website/wiki contributed to the adoption of SUSE Linux? Are aspects of SUSE Linux being adversely affected by opening the development process or should it be more open? At what point does the interests of the wider SUSE community and users conflict with the business interests of Novell/SUSE?
All fine examples. None of them are about "the community." The problem here is saying that these issues are about "the community." **** "THE COMMUNITY" != "THE COMMUNITY'S ACTIVITIES" ****
SuSE Linux is a technology project. If anything is off-topic, it's the non-technical.
Correct, SUSE Linux is a technical product, and there is already a list for technical questions about SUSE Linux so in fact technical questions on this list are offtopic.
**** SUSE Linux != openSUSE.org ****
You guys really love this little catch-phrase, don't you? Doesn't openSUSE.org produce the open-source subset of SuSE Linux?
What are these things? What is openSUSE that is not also SuSE Linux? You steadfastly refuse to suggest to me what they might be. The only thing I can think of that would be off-topic here (besides non-technical issues, of course) is non-open-source software, which is strictly in the commercial Novell / SuSE Linux release.
You seem to be getting confused between an actual product/distro/release and a community project. If you really don't understand the concept of 'community project' then *shrug*
I don't believe I suffer from that confusion at all, and that's not the answer I'm trying to get. And what really distinguishes the "community project" (note the change in wording) from the commercial product other than Novell's packaging and non-OSS additions? It seems there's rather little to distinguish the two and aside from the issues of _producing_ the release, nothing to justify this list. And when you think of it, people are coming to this list with their technical questions for a very good and valid reason: They're more likely to find well-informed, authoritative and truly useful answers here than they are on the SuSE-Linux-E list, where most people have only just now started to get direct experience with 10.1 (to take the current example). To send these people away when they seek the best answers possible is quite rude, it seems.
No. I certainly do not. SuSE Linux is a technology project. There's nothing else to discuss and I think that's made pretty clear by the fact that people keep coming here with technical questions. Sadly, they're now just handed copy and after copy of some boilerplate telling them to go somewhere else.
Again, SUSE Linux IS NOT THE SAME THING as openSUSE
Fine, but that distinction is _not_ the distinction that people are trying to impose on this list vs. SuSE-Linux-E. When people post questions here about, e.g., a kernel panic, they're sent away. The kernel is as much a part of the open-source distribution as it is the commercial one, is it not?
Unless and until you can get specific about what non-technical issues you think this list should be used for, then I see no need for this list at all. Repeating "community issues" over and over does not answer the question.
If you cannot think of any non technical issues then what business do you have posting here and flaming others? Just because *you* see no need for this list doesn't mean that the need does not exist. If you cannot understand the concept of a community project, or you do not wish to participate in the openSUSE communitiy project you could at least respect the wishes of those that do.
I flamed no one in any way. I posted to ask a question. A question to which, until now, I got no actual answer. All I got was a lot of tangential stuff.
Cheers Graham
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On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 07:59:21AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
I don't believe I suffer from that confusion at all, and that's not the answer I'm trying to get.
And there lies the problem. You asked a question and determined what the answer should be or should be like and untill you have gotten the answer that YOU want, you will keep moaning that the answer is not the correct one.
And when you think of it, people are coming to this list with their technical questions for a very good and valid reason: They're more likely to find well-informed, authoritative and truly useful answers here than they are on the SuSE-Linux-E list, where most people have only just now started to get direct experience with 10.1 (to take the current example). To send these people away when they seek the best answers possible is quite rude, it seems.
So there is a problem with the answers in suse-linux-e? You also have just explained why it is extremely bad to actually answer technical questions here. Again: this list is NOT for technical questions. It is that simple. Again look at http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#Mailing_Lists If you can't understand what this list is about, you don't need to be here.
I flamed no one in any way. I posted to ask a question. A question to which, until now, I got no actual answer. All I got was a lot of tangential stuff.
I am sorry that you did not like the answer. Such is life. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 08:14, houghi wrote:
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 07:59:21AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
I don't believe I suffer from that confusion at all, and that's not the answer I'm trying to get.
And there lies the problem. You asked a question and determined what the answer should be or should be like and untill you have gotten the answer that YOU want, you will keep moaning that the answer is not the correct one.
Please allow me to rephrase that: I did not get an answer to the question I asked at all.
And when you think of it, people are coming to this list with their technical questions for a very good and valid reason: They're more likely to find well-informed, authoritative and truly useful answers here than they are on the SuSE-Linux-E list, where most people have only just now started to get direct experience with 10.1 (to take the current example). To send these people away when they seek the best answers possible is quite rude, it seems.
So there is a problem with the answers in suse-linux-e? You also have just explained why it is extremely bad to actually answer technical questions here.
It's bad to answer here because this is where the knowledge exists? What kind of attitude is that?
Again: this list is NOT for technical questions. It is that simple. Again look at http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate#Mailing_Lists If you can't understand what this list is about, you don't need to be here.
And while Graham has actually answered my question, you continue only to tell me what is _not_ (in your opinion) a suitable question here.
I flamed no one in any way. I posted to ask a question. A question to which, until now, I got no actual answer. All I got was a lot of tangential stuff.
I am sorry that you did not like the answer. Such is life.
It is not that the answer was not to my liking, it was that the answer was not given. It was avoided. Assiduously. And you continue to avoid an answer. If you insist that the answer to the question "what is the community" is "the community" then you should be in politics, not technology development. Those people have to duck questions for a living.
houghi
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On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 08:27:40AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
It is not that the answer was not to my liking, it was that the answer was not given.
And just before you said: "And while Graham has actually answered my question" So was the aswer give or was the answer not given? houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 08:47, houghi wrote:
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 08:27:40AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
It is not that the answer was not to my liking, it was that the answer was not given.
And just before you said: "And while Graham has actually answered my question"
So was the aswer give or was the answer not given?
By him, at long last, but not by you. You made eight posts in this thread and never once gave the definition I asked for. Furthermore, the criticism that calling the examples he gave "about the community" stands and is valid. You could have forestalled this entire exchange by saying what you mean from the outset. Then I would not have needed to ask.
houghi
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On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 08:55:46AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
By him, at long last, but not by you. You made eight posts in this thread and never once gave the definition I asked for.
I think I did. Sorry if you did not like it. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 09:10, houghi wrote:
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 08:55:46AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
By him, at long last, but not by you. You made eight posts in this thread and never once gave the definition I asked for.
I think I did. Sorry if you did not like it.
You just don't get it. You _did not answer the question_. It's not that I didn't like the answer you gave, you simply evaded answering. Only Graham gave an explicit answer.
houghi
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The best description of community I ever found is from our friendly-competition - Fedora: http://fedora.redhat.com/about/objectives.html Look: "Objectives of Fedora Core: 1. Create a complete general-purpose operating system with capabilities equivalent to competing operating systems, built for and by a *community* — those who not only consume, but also produce for the good of other community members." -Alexey.E.
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 11:15:04PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: <snip>
SuSE Linux <snip>
Since a long time it is SUSE Linux. Perhaps the people at SUSE could do a grep on SuSE in documentation and see where it still says SuSE and not SUSE when refereing to the product. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 07:58, houghi wrote:
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 11:15:04PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: <snip>
SuSE Linux <snip>
Since a long time it is SUSE Linux. Perhaps the people at SUSE could do a grep on SuSE in documentation and see where it still says SuSE and not SUSE when refereing to the product.
That's not a mistake on my part. It's my personal campaign of resistance against a change I dislike.
houghi
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On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 08:01:22AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 07:58, houghi wrote:
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 11:15:04PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: <snip>
SuSE Linux <snip>
Since a long time it is SUSE Linux. Perhaps the people at SUSE could do a grep on SuSE in documentation and see where it still says SuSE and not SUSE when refereing to the product.
That's not a mistake on my part. It's my personal campaign of resistance against a change I dislike.
Why? What is there so terrible to call a product by its name? Or is it some joke I don't get, like saying Mickeysoft instead of Microsoft. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 08:18, houghi wrote:
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 08:01:22AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 07:58, houghi wrote:
On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 11:15:04PM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote: <snip>
SuSE Linux <snip>
Since a long time it is SUSE Linux. Perhaps the people at SUSE could do a grep on SuSE in documentation and see where it still says SuSE and not SUSE when refereing to the product.
That's not a mistake on my part. It's my personal campaign of resistance against a change I dislike.
Why? What is there so terrible to call a product by its name?
It was distinctive. Now it's less so. That's all. Do you want to tell me what I may and may not like, now?
Or is it some joke I don't get, ...
Probably.
houghi
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On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 08:28:57AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
Since a long time it is SUSE Linux. Perhaps the people at SUSE could do a grep on SuSE in documentation and see where it still says SuSE and not SUSE when refereing to the product.
That's not a mistake on my part. It's my personal campaign of resistance against a change I dislike.
Why? What is there so terrible to call a product by its name?
It was distinctive. Now it's less so. That's all.
OK. I think it still is distictive enough to not confuse it with anything else but itself.
Do you want to tell me what I may and may not like, now?
I just asked a question. I am not sure how you think that would change that into something I would want you to do, to like or to whatever, exept answer it,
Or is it some joke I don't get, ...
Probably.
Then please elaborate. I am willing to learn. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 08:51, houghi wrote:
...
Or is it some joke I don't get, ...
Probably.
Then please elaborate. I am willing to learn.
Jokes that need to be explained are failures.
houghi
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On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 08:56:33AM -0700, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 08:51, houghi wrote:
...
Or is it some joke I don't get, ...
Probably.
Then please elaborate. I am willing to learn.
Jokes that need to be explained are failures.
So it is a joke? Please just answer yes or no. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On 6/4/06, houghi
Ok, I will try another aproach: The openSUSE community is the group of people that are involved, directly or indirectly, in the openSUSE project.
I think that it is classic that you have in the space of one post, changed your definition of what the openSUSE community means. I think we are basically fighting with the consequences of naming the project different to the distribution, and then sending mixed messages. People are confused. The market is confused. Novell even refers to openSUSE as a distro. It is therefore totally understandable why OT posts happen this list, as the definition of what is On-topic is obviously not clear. Education is of limited value, because for every time we say openSUSE is the community and SUSE Linux is the distro, teh user will read a review of "openSUSE" or a press release from Novell such how the new driver proces will be available in openSUSE. Instead of fighting against all this, as said in other thread, I think the community specific discussions should be in a new list called opensuse-community@opensuse.org. This list can then be deleted. Peter 'Pflodo' Flodin ps. while we are at it, we could also create opensuse-toppost@opensuse.org, and banish repeat offenders to it :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 04:21:35PM +1000, Peter Flodin wrote:
Instead of fighting against all this, as said in other thread, I think the community specific discussions should be in a new list called opensuse-community@opensuse.org.
This list can then be deleted.
This has been an issue since the beginning as some might know. Perhaps merging with suse-linux-e is a better way, or an autoreply that explains what is going on and that they should use suse-linux-e. Completely killing the list will just suck the people to another openSUSE list, so it would be great to use it as a honeypot. houghi -- This openSUSE mailinglist is about the community. All discussion about the community is welcome. If you have a techical question just subscribe via this email address: suse-linux-e-subscribe@suse.com, post your original email again there, and you will get a straight answer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Søndag 04 juni 2006 08:21 skrev Peter Flodin:
People are confused. The market is confused. Novell even refers to openSUSE as a distro.
It is therefore totally understandable why OT posts happen this list, as the definition of what is On-topic is obviously not clear. Education is of limited value, because for every time we say openSUSE is the community and SUSE Linux is the distro, teh user will read a review of "openSUSE" or a press release from Novell such how the new driver proces will be available in openSUSE.
Instead of fighting against all this, as said in other thread, I think the community specific discussions should be in a new list called opensuse-community@opensuse.org.
This list can then be deleted.
We have to fight against this - the alternative is worse. We already have people thinking that SUSE and OpenSUSE are to different distros (including Randall apparently). Recently I saw this question on #opensuse: "Can I use SUSE RPMs on OpenSUSE?" People really don't get it. Some think OpenSUSE is just about an oss-version, some think it's a non-Novell fork, people think all kinds of stuff. But now we have removed the OSS naming - and every SUSE version is OSS until the user himself installs certain stuff - in time this'll help clear things up. We need to be firm and keep explaining it to people - including the Novell-guys - otherwise the confusion will be even greater than it already is. Personally I recently mailed Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols to complain about his incorrect use of OpenSUSE in a review. We have to educate people on what OpenSUSE is about - how else can we get members to join and be active? It's not just a matter of getting the "wrong" people off this list - it's also a matter of getting the "right" people on. If we repeat it often enough it must sink in to gernerel public sometime. "SUSE Linux is the distro - OpenSUSE is the Novell-sponsored community-project that provides it!" - It can't be that hard to understand. Martin Schlander --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 14:55, Martin Schlander wrote:
...
We have to fight against this - the alternative is worse. We already have people thinking that SUSE and OpenSUSE are two different distros (including Randall apparently). ...
I've written nothing that would suggest such a misunderstanding.
...
Martin Schlander
RRS --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Mandag 05 juni 2006 00:58 skrev Randall R Schulz:
We have to fight against this - the alternative is worse. We already have people thinking that SUSE and OpenSUSE are two different distros (including Randall apparently). ...
I've written nothing that would suggest such a misunderstanding.
You wrote: "The only thing I can think of that would be off-topic here (besides non-technical issues, of course) is non-open-source software, which is strictly in the commercial Novell / SuSE Linux release." The box-set, the non-oss-inst-source/cd6-addon etc. would not be off topic. Actually we had a very long discussion once about moving pico and pine to non-oss - that wasn't OT. SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop would be OT though. Maybe this extract from the OpenSUSE.org frontpage will clarify things: "Here at openSUSE.org, you'll find a community of developers, end users, and other open source enthusiasts who all have the same goal in mind. We work together to create and distribute the world's most usable Linux. There are many ways you can participate in the openSUSE project." What we try do here is discuss things that have to do with creating and distributing SUSE Linux. If another mailinglist has been created for a more specific purpose - that purpose would be off-topic here, for example: Tech support for released version which is on suse-linux-e Technical questions and feedback for development version which is on opensuse-factory Martin / cb400f --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 16:21, Martin Schlander wrote:
...
Maybe this extract from the OpenSUSE.org frontpage will clarify things:
"Here at openSUSE.org, you'll find a community of developers, end users, and other open source enthusiasts who all have the same goal in mind. We work together to create and distribute the world's most usable Linux. There are many ways you can participate in the openSUSE project."
What we try do here is discuss things that have to do with creating and distributing SUSE Linux.
That all makes perfect sense and is consistent with Graham Anderson's answer. The only real problem I have is in saying that such topics are about "the community." They're not. They're about the process of creating a release of Linux. There's no way you can equate the two that doesn't do horrible violence to the language.
...
Martin
Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 16:21, Martin Schlander wrote:
...
Maybe this extract from the OpenSUSE.org frontpage will clarify things:
"Here at openSUSE.org, you'll find a community of developers, end users, and other open source enthusiasts who all have the same goal in mind. We work together to create and distribute the world's most usable Linux. There are many ways you can participate in the openSUSE project."
What we try do here is discuss things that have to do with creating and distributing SUSE Linux.
That all makes perfect sense and is consistent with Graham Anderson's answer.
The only real problem I have is in saying that such topics are about "the community." They're not. They're about the process of creating a release of Linux. There's no way you can equate the two that doesn't do horrible violence to the language.
Randall, could you just please stop being so aggressive...
The community is NOT only about the SUSE Linux distribution.
It's also about 3rd package repositories (like Packman or mine, or the
many others), it's about promoting the community and the distribution,
it's about being present at events, writing and maintaining
documentation, bringing people together, writing software for and around
the distribution, coordinating efforts, etc...
This is not just a Linux distribution.
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
On Sunday 04 June 2006 17:04, Pascal Bleser wrote:
...
Randall, could you just please stop being so aggressive...
You think _I_ am being aggressive? I'm not the one throwing boilerplate spam in the face of everyone who posts a technical question telling them to go away. It took me forever to get an answer to a simple question, and then it turns out to be utterly at odds with the words ("the community") that keep getting repeated ad nauseum in an attempt to shut people up. How on earth does an attempt to get an answer to a simple question get labelled as "aggressive?" People here are essentially trying to censor others who have been granted access to the list. _That_ is aggressive! Just come clean and restrict membership to people who won't ask questions you don't want to see.
The community is NOT only about the SUSE Linux distribution.
It's also about 3rd package repositories (like Packman or mine, or the many others), it's about promoting the community and the distribution, it's about being present at events, writing and maintaining documentation, bringing people together, writing software for and around the distribution, coordinating efforts, etc...
Yes, but it's not about _the people_ ("the community"). It's about the process of creating the distribution and issues that arise therein. The term being used is irreconcilable with the definition profferred.
This is not just a Linux distribution.
What, then? Are people really coming here for comraderie?
cheers
There's another abuse of English... Call someone aggressive and end with "cheers." Randall Schulz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 17:04, Pascal Bleser wrote:
...
Randall, could you just please stop being so aggressive...
You think _I_ am being aggressive? I'm not the one throwing boilerplate spam in the face of everyone who posts a technical question telling them to go away.
Again, for the 20th time or so, it's not "boilerplate spam". It's because this list is not intended to be used for technical support questions like "my screen goes blank on installation" or "help! my printer doesn't work". suse-linux-e is dedicated to such topics, and it would be pointless of having such mails here, because 1) splitting people and help between 2 lists is only counter-productive for several reasons (number of people, no information flow about existing replies in the archives, etc...) 2) this list would drown into such topics and we'd have no list where to discuss things around the community (even if you don't know what that is, we do) That "boilerplate spam" is just kindly asking people to please go to the appropriate list, where they'll be best helped. And, as said a couple of times already, if you don't think its tone is kind enough, please help us make it better, because the intention certainly is to have it so.
It took me forever to get an answer to a simple question, and then it turns out to be utterly at odds with the words ("the community") that keep getting repeated ad nauseum in an attempt to shut people up.
No. It just seems you don't know what it is. I'm really surprised to see someone in the Linux/OpenSource ecosystem not knowing what the concept of "community" is.
How on earth does an attempt to get an answer to a simple question get labelled as "aggressive?" People here are essentially trying to censor others who have been granted access to the list. _That_ is aggressive!
Again, your tone is really aggressive, to say the least. And where are you seeing censorship ? C'mon, this is ridiculous, please come down and let's discuss this on a normal tone. Relax, go for a walk, take a deep breath and read this mail again, there's nothing aggressive nor offensive in it, we're all friends here ;)
Just come clean and restrict membership to people who won't ask questions you don't want to see.
No one is restricting "membership" in any way. Everyone is free to subscribe to this list and take part in it, actively or not. It's just not meant for technical support topics, that's all. There are a lot more people subscribed to suse-linux-e, so the chances that people get good help over there is much bigger than on this list. Again, we're (*) just sending people a reply that kindly asks them to post their question on a different list, that's more dedicated, more appropriate and in better conditions to help them successfully. What does it have to do with censorship ? (*) and I'm explicitly saying "we" because although houghi is the only one who has sent those emails up to now, others would so as well; I think pretty much everyone agrees with that idea and supports houghi in doing this.. but that was already mentioned in a few other mails in this thread
The community is NOT only about the SUSE Linux distribution.
It's also about 3rd package repositories (like Packman or mine, or the many others), it's about promoting the community and the distribution, it's about being present at events, writing and maintaining documentation, bringing people together, writing software for and around the distribution, coordinating efforts, etc...
Yes, but it's not about _the people_ ("the community"). It's about the process of creating the distribution and issues that arise therein. The term being used is irreconcilable with the definition profferred.
Of course it's about the people. I somehow have the feeling you just totally don't get what all this is about. That's sad.
This is not just a Linux distribution.
What, then? Are people really coming here for comraderie?
Yes, indeed. What are you doing here, are you here for money ? Are you being paid for being on this list ? I don't think so ;) Since several years, I'm building packages for a few SUSE Linux versions, I maintain the 2nd largest 3rd party package repository for SUSE users. It's being used a lot, by a vast number of SUSE Linux users. Amongst a few other things, that's my contribution to the SUSE Linux users - dare I say, the community - and I do that in my spare time, I'm not paid for doing it (and it's actually taking a lot of my time). So, yes, I'm definitely here for the fun of it, for helping others. Does that sound so strange ? If it does, then I guess you're just using SUSE Linux like you'd be using Windows, just that it's free of charge and, of course, much better from a technical point of view. That's fine, but please don't question or bash people who see and are active in everything that's around the SUSE Linux distribution. It's very much about - - the people, - - non-technical topics, such as taking part in events (FOSDEM, LinuxTag, ...) - - initiatives and projects - - "political" topics: choice of directions, services, communication - - promoting openSUSE.org and SUSE Linux Of course it's also a lot about technical topics and support, but there are dedicated lists for handling that, to avoid drowning: - - suse-linux-e - - opensuse-factory - - opensuse-packaging - - opensuse-buildservice - - opensuse-wiki - - opensuse-documentation This list some sort of central information coordination channel about what's happening on other topics, communication channels between parts of the community (e.g. the people who run web forums about SUSE Linux), publishing and discussing important news and information (to feed it to people present on other mailing-lists, IRC channels and web forums around SUSE Linux), etc... At least, that's my understanding of this list and while we're not quite there yet for all of the points above, that's what I'd like it to become. I think most people here share the same idea, at least for most of the items. I'd picture it like this: ,---- push information here (opensuse@opensuse.org) v | | web forums <--+ | | +--> IRC support (#suse, #opensuse, ...) | | suse-linux-e <--+ | | +--> Novell staff | |
cheers
There's another abuse of English... Call someone aggressive and end with "cheers."
Well, I wasn't aggressive at all. If you got that impression, too bad,
it wasn't meant that way (and this mail isn't either).
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
Hi, On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote:
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 17:04, Pascal Bleser wrote:
...
What the hell is going on here? Stop this thread please now. I feel we should create psychiatrist@opensuse.org with an "elisa" intelligence which does convince every poster to get a gun and shoot one bullet straight 180 degrees against the screen. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 18:55, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote:
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 17:04, Pascal Bleser wrote:
...
What the hell is going on here?
Stop this thread please now.
There sure are a lot of censors on this list. And still you can't keep things within your respective notions of "on topic." Maybe that should tell you something. Close the list membership or live with the understandable wish for users of your various work products to get answers from the people who know the most about them.
I feel we should create psychiatrist@opensuse.org with an "elisa" intelligence which does convince every poster to get a gun and shoot one bullet straight 180 degrees against the screen.
Cheers -e
Yes. Cheers to you for the suggestion that we shoot ourselves. I love you, too. RRS --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 18:55, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jun 2006, Pascal Bleser wrote:
Randall R Schulz wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 17:04, Pascal Bleser wrote:
...
What the hell is going on here?
Stop this thread please now.
There sure are a lot of censors on this list. And still you can't keep things within your respective notions of "on topic." Maybe that should tell you something.
Close the list membership or live with the understandable wish for users of your various work products to get answers from the people who know the most about them.
I feel we should create psychiatrist@opensuse.org with an "elisa" intelligence which does convince every poster to get a gun and shoot one bullet straight 180 degrees against the screen.
Cheers -e
Yes. Cheers to you for the suggestion that we shoot ourselves.
I love you, too.
This fucking sarcasm or "indirectness" is really destroying any "community" efforts. Maybe you are a superior intelligence, but please respect: not in this world. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 22:17, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote: [...]
Yes. Cheers to you for the suggestion that we shoot ourselves.
I love you, too.
This fucking sarcasm or "indirectness" is really destroying any "community" efforts.
Maybe you are a superior intelligence, but please respect: not in this world.
Cheers -e ==========
Eberhard, You have a foul mouth or brain or typing hands and sometimes an even worse attitude. Take a chill pill man and let this thread die! No good will come of it, as it seems everyone has good points and bad in the discussion. I actually agree with many of the ones that think this list and it's purpose is confusing. I also think the redirecting should be handled another way as I kinda find houghi's method somewhat offensive, but that's just me. If we must discuss it, then let's do it as gentlemen, without the nastiness please. regards, Lee --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, BandiPat wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 22:17, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
[...]
Yes. Cheers to you for the suggestion that we shoot ourselves.
I love you, too.
This fucking sarcasm or "indirectness" is really destroying any "community" efforts.
Maybe you are a superior intelligence, but please respect: not in this world.
You have a foul mouth or brain or typing hands and sometimes an even worse attitude. Take a chill pill man and let this thread die! No good will come of it, as it seems everyone has good points and bad in the discussion.
I actually agree with many of the ones that think this list and it's purpose is confusing. I also think the redirecting should be handled another way as I kinda find houghi's method somewhat offensive, but that's just me.
If we must discuss it, then let's do it as gentlemen, without the nastiness please.
This discussion is growing as foolish as I never thougt was possible between humans. So go one step away from your screen, breathe the fresh air, and AFTER that reflect if it is good to continue feeding the trolls here. If you don't, please take my advice - force it fully agaist your screen, but 180 degrees besides. If you would know me better you would not have answered... Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 22:36, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote: [...]
This discussion is growing as foolish as I never thougt was possible between humans.
So go one step away from your screen, breathe the fresh air, and AFTER that reflect if it is good to continue feeding the trolls here.
If you don't, please take my advice - force it fully agaist your screen, but 180 degrees besides.
If you would know me better you would not have answered...
Cheers -e ==========
Sometimes I think I would like to know you better other times not. If your behavior and tone, as you've exhibited on this list, are a reflection of the type person you are, we would all be better off not knowing you! Now, take your own advice, if you can receive as well as dish out and reflect on how you've sounded thus far. There are no trolls here, only concerned SUSE/opensuse community members. Cheers to you too Lee --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, BandiPat wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 22:36, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
[...]
This discussion is growing as foolish as I never thougt was possible between humans.
So go one step away from your screen, breathe the fresh air, and AFTER that reflect if it is good to continue feeding the trolls here.
If you don't, please take my advice - force it fully agaist your screen, but 180 degrees besides.
If you would know me better you would not have answered...
Sometimes I think I would like to know you better other times not. If your behavior and tone, as you've exhibited on this list, are a reflection of the type person you are, we would all be better off not knowing you!
Now, take your own advice, if you can receive as well as dish out and reflect on how you've sounded thus far. There are no trolls here, only concerned SUSE/opensuse community members.
So what are you expecting "constructive" from this thread? Since hours there was nothing. But it is extremely nerving if one after the other suspicious creature is feeling forced to stuble into this thread. So fuck off here, please. "Community" is a well-understood item, and if you think you have to neglect that, please give yourself the bullet. I have shown you a real great way, which can save your "I am the greatest" until the end. Again my previous warning to better not answer if you only have to tell your very thin shit. I will escalate, because this list too is "mine". Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 04 June 2006 23:38, Eberhard Moenkeberg wrote:
So what are you expecting "constructive" from this thread? Since hours there was nothing.
But it is extremely nerving if one after the other suspicious creature is feeling forced to stuble into this thread.
So fuck off here, please. "Community" is a well-understood item, and if you think you have to neglect that, please give yourself the bullet. I have shown you a real great way, which can save your "I am the greatest" until the end.
Again my previous warning to better not answer if you only have to tell your very thin shit. I will escalate, because this list too is "mine".
Cheers -e ============
So the rest of us should just hold our opinions because you have the foulest mouth and worst attitude? I don't think that will happen. If your self control is so weak and you are so weak minded as to presume because you throw a lot of trash out of your feeble brain the rest of us will bow to your superior trashiness, think again. We've all got a bit of trash in us dude! I'm quite surprised the opensuse guys would allow you so much latitude with your trash talk and bashing of others. Now I'm sure everyone would be better off not knowing you. You are in a world of your own, please stay there, go back to your cave! Cheers -l --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, BandiPat wrote:
So the rest of us should just hold our opinions because you have the foulest mouth and worst attitude? I don't think that will happen. If your self control is so weak and you are so weak minded as to presume because you throw a lot of trash out of your feeble brain the rest of us will bow to your superior trashiness, think again. We've all got a bit of trash in us dude!
I'm quite surprised the opensuse guys would allow you so much latitude with your trash talk and bashing of others. Now I'm sure everyone would be better off not knowing you. You are in a world of your own, please stay there, go back to your cave!
You simply shall REFLECT what you are doing here. This is not a children's sand box and not a grownup's psychiatrist sofa. Fuck you now, I will not answer your reply. Incredible how ignorant today's idiots are. If everybody who experiences that his brain may be more than his conciousness would just post here his latest shit, I guess we would not have much more participants than currently. This is too worse. And this clearly shows: "openness" is a hazard against productivity - because even the worst idiot can rob your time. So we need something like a moderator here, to ensure that the ass will not supercede the brain. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Pascal Bleser wrote:
It's also (...)
May be we could say: there are specialized lists (suse-linux-e technical.... factory dev...) all what can't go on a specialized list can go here. If you don't know where to go, ask here. so we can also act as a hub, without flames... -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
Randall R Schulz wrote:
Hi,
Some keep chastising questions of substance about SuSE Linux 10.1 posted to this list, saying repeatedly that this list is about "the community." I, for the life of me, have no idea what this means.
your formulation is probably not good. We all know that most SUSE Linux users and people working on any openSUSE project are the community.
What's OK to discuss here?
this is the true question. You already give one answer: your post in on chart :-) but really there must be more precise answer. For example commenting bug don't seems to be part of topic, better done on factory for dev and suse-linux-e for stable, but this is not so evident, as debugging is also an opensuse project :-) (and looking at the archives, there are many threads bugs related on opensuse) truth is that if you exclude the bugs, the wiki and the dev, there a little things to discuss :-) looking at the archives, I can see: * cd content and layout * opensuse web servers configuration (see the recent wiki page) * wording of documentation (but there is an opensuse-doc) * list hub. people that don't know where to write can have the answer here :-) * issues with delays, cd's, manuals * organisation/layout of projects (and I looked only at may and june) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-help@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Alexey Eremenko -
BandiPat -
Eberhard Moenkeberg -
Graham Anderson -
houghi -
jdd -
Kenneth Aar, Grafikern.no -
Martin Schlander -
Pascal Bleser -
PatrickM -
Peter Flodin -
Randall R Schulz