[opensuse] I am confused: "high end" graphics Laptop for Suse (in Spain)?
Hi list(eners) I need to buy a new laptop and am very confused with the new hardware and it's compatibility with OpenSuse (I guess I will install leap?), especially this secure boot thing etc. I see that most of the laptops come with Win10 plus special stuff (cloud space and don't know what else), but I plan to reformat the disks and make a pure, fully encrypted Linux-machine, no dual boot, but Win within a virtualbox (needed for some camera software). What do I have to look for/make sure to have/not have, so that I can do a more or less easy install without being an expert, and without too much time to tinker and solve problems? Anybody has experience with recent HP, Asus, Lenovo? And how about Toshiba, which always seem to be cheaper? The tests I found are outdated (or not dated) or not related to Linux. So any hints are much appreciated! (And if anybody has hints where to best buy in Spain: great!) Thanks Daniel (Must-haves: 15,6", very (very!) powerful and fast in graphics for large image/video editing, good screen, 1TB HD, maybe even + SSD for system, good battery life, I guess with Intel i7 65xx, Nvidia, 16GB mem...) -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Daniel Bauer wrote:
Hi list(eners)
I need to buy a new laptop and am very confused with the new hardware and it's compatibility with OpenSuse (I guess I will install leap?), especially this secure boot thing etc.
I see that most of the laptops come with Win10 plus special stuff (cloud space and don't know what else), but I plan to reformat the disks and make a pure, fully encrypted Linux-machine, no dual boot, but Win within a virtualbox (needed for some camera software).
What do I have to look for/make sure to have/not have, so that I can do a more or less easy install without being an expert, and without too much time to tinker and solve problems?
Anybody has experience with recent HP, Asus, Lenovo? And how about Toshiba, which always seem to be cheaper?
I've have been using Toshiba laptops with Linux for 15 years or more, never had any issues with them. I have a couple of Satellite L675, but they're not exactly recent. IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads have also never caused much trouble, but I have not tried the newer Lenovo consumer range. /Per -- Per Jessen, Zürich (7.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Daniel Bauer
Hi list(eners)
I need to buy a new laptop and am very confused with the new hardware and it's compatibility with OpenSuse (I guess I will install leap?), especially this secure boot thing etc.
I see that most of the laptops come with Win10 plus special stuff (cloud space and don't know what else), but I plan to reformat the disks and make a pure, fully encrypted Linux-machine,
This summer I bought Dell Latitude E5450 that came preinstalled with Ubuntu. As far as I can tell everything works. The only complaint is screen size - it has high resolution is everything is a bit too small. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/12/2016 08:00 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
(Must-haves: 15,6", very (very!) powerful and fast in graphics for large image/video editing, good screen, 1TB HD, maybe even + SSD for system, good battery life, I guess with Intel i7 65xx, Nvidia, 16GB mem...)
For my money I would go with an AMD based machine. Over time I have had better luck with AMD over Intel. -- Fast is fine, but accuracy is final. You must learn to be slow in a hurry. -Wyatt Earp- _ _... ..._ _ _._ ._ ..... ._.. ... .._ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
(Sorry for PM, Billie, wasn't intended) Am 12.01.2016 um 16:42 schrieb Billie Walsh:
On 01/12/2016 08:00 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
(Must-haves: 15,6", very (very!) powerful and fast in graphics for large image/video editing, good screen, 1TB HD, maybe even + SSD for system, good battery life, I guess with Intel i7 65xx, Nvidia, 16GB mem...)
For my money I would go with an AMD based machine. Over time I have had better luck with AMD over Intel.
I have read in tests that AMD is only very good in the middle power class, but for my uses I need a very fast "heavy duty"-machine.... Of course I can only believe (or not) what computer magazines post in their online reports and then hope it's true :-) -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 12/01/2016 19:29, Daniel Bauer a écrit :
Of course I can only believe (or not) what computer magazines post in their online reports and then hope it's true :-)
it's probably not. and by the way, may be you over estimate your power needs. I do extensive HD video editing on an old (by now - 5 years) desktop with 8Gb ram and a very low end i5. I added recently a ssd that is worth the price. But it was $800 5 years ago. HP low end laptops are random, but the professional series are very good. I have some in my Linux User Group that after ten years are still working. This one could fit your needs. Not cheap, but affordable (be warned than the price listed first if for the simpler version, options makes the price go up). http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campaigns/workstations/zbook-studio.html not tried with Linux (by me) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 12.01.2016 um 19:55 schrieb jdd:
Le 12/01/2016 19:29, Daniel Bauer a écrit :
Of course I can only believe (or not) what computer magazines post in their online reports and then hope it's true :-)
it's probably not.
and by the way, may be you over estimate your power needs.
this is very well possible! I only know that my PC (intel i7 950@3.07 GHz, 16GB mem, Nvidia GTX 460) often comes to its limits when I have large files with several layers open in Gimp (can go to several hundreds of MB), and even more, when I have to use Win in Virtualbox for the Canon-Raw-conerter...
I do extensive HD video editing on an old (by now - 5 years) desktop with 8Gb ram and a very low end i5. I added recently a ssd that is worth the price. But it was $800 5 years ago.
HP low end laptops are random, but the professional series are very good. I have some in my Linux User Group that after ten years are still working.
AH, thanks for that info. I like HP in general (also for nice design), but I never know which are the "good" series names. So zbook are the pro ones? What is the Envy series? In Spain, on the hp-site, the only one with 16GB mem is a HP ENVY...
http://store.hp.com/SpainStore/Merch/List.aspx?sel=NTB&ctrl=f&fc_mem_m8=1
The zbooks here are slower, with less memory and disk, but more expensive... -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-01-12 20:18, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Am 12.01.2016 um 19:55 schrieb jdd:
Le 12/01/2016 19:29, Daniel Bauer a écrit :
and by the way, may be you over estimate your power needs.
this is very well possible!
I only know that my PC (intel i7 950@3.07 GHz, 16GB mem, Nvidia GTX 460) often comes to its limits when I have large files with several layers open in Gimp (can go to several hundreds of MB), and even more, when I have to use Win in Virtualbox for the Canon-Raw-conerter...
These are specific tasks. Let me see, long time I read about this. I don't know if Gimp is (well) threaded or not. Then, it is possible that it is not using RAM fully, but swapping to temporary files when it hits some defined limits in its configuration. Edit/preferences, Environment, and maybe somewhere else. Then, in my experience virtualized Windows is specially slow. In your case, you have to make sure that the guest has enough RAM available/reserved for its use, and enough CPU cores. I can't tell you exactly what to adjust, because when I need power in Windows I double boot to it instead. I suppose that Canon tool doesn't work with wine? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 01/12/2016 12:09 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2016-01-12 20:18, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Am 12.01.2016 um 19:55 schrieb jdd:
Le 12/01/2016 19:29, Daniel Bauer a écrit :
and by the way, may be you over estimate your power needs.
this is very well possible!
I only know that my PC (intel i7 950@3.07 GHz, 16GB mem, Nvidia GTX 460) often comes to its limits when I have large files with several layers open in Gimp (can go to several hundreds of MB), and even more, when I have to use Win in Virtualbox for the Canon-Raw-conerter...
These are specific tasks.
Let me see, long time I read about this. I don't know if Gimp is (well) threaded or not. Then, it is possible that it is not using RAM fully, but swapping to temporary files when it hits some defined limits in its configuration. Edit/preferences, Environment, and maybe somewhere else.
Then, in my experience virtualized Windows is specially slow. In your case, you have to make sure that the guest has enough RAM available/reserved for its use, and enough CPU cores. I can't tell you exactly what to adjust, because when I need power in Windows I double boot to it instead.
I suppose that Canon tool doesn't work with wine?
I tend to agree that /tmp space may be hurting these large jobs. Even for DVD burning I had to move the temp space used by the apps (two different programs) to a different partition because of the games played with tmp in systemd world. (files never purged, some times its a ram disk, etc). And the virtual machines issue: everything that Carlos said is true, but I find that Vmware is very much better at this performance game than some of the others. I just don't have problems with Virtualized windows installations (other than Vista). They run very fast, given enough memory. If you boil it all down, it come to _MORE RAM PLEASE !!!_ Check the maximum possible ram configuration, (And don't necessarily believe what they tell you). Then, if budget constraints exist buy half of that, pre-installed demanding empty slots. Then buy the rest when prices drop. Or buy the smallest configuration and replace it all from some place reputable, and get a return guarantee if it doesn't work. I use Crucial.com but I call them up and talk to them. They know the maximums each machine will take, (regardless of what the manufacturer says) and they will tell you this on the phone but maybe not in writing. My current machine is running twice the ram that the manufacturer said it would run. - -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlaVYqIACgkQv7M3G5+2DLL/SgCgkAbvCNCMCMGM5cZBRbSkGE7z fW8An0rpxAlC8xqirIg6BH5kGngMbJHV =Blm/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-01-12 21:31, John Andersen wrote:
On 01/12/2016 12:09 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I use Crucial.com but I call them up and talk to them. They know the maximums each machine will take, (regardless of what the manufacturer says) and they will tell you this on the phone but maybe not in writing.
Ah, but his limitation is the same as mine: we live in Spain ;-) The site would be http://eu.crucial.com/eur/en I see stores in UK, FR, GE, IT; Not SP. Some shops in Europe set a small shop in several countries (perhaps virtual), but phone calls are redirected to their home office somewhere else; thus everybody makes relatively local phone calls. Cross-border calls are more expensive. Then there is language barrier... This crucial site offers to download and run a scanner on my computer and tell me what I can buy. It downloads a .exe, though, it is Windows only. For tools like this I would maintain the double boot option. Such is life. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 2016-01-12 15:00, Daniel Bauer wrote:
(And if anybody has hints where to best buy in Spain: great!)
I got mine, of all sites, at Carrefour (!). After looking at several places, I discovered one that matched my requirements in there, and it included a 70€ rebate in purchases. Cheese and all those articles, LOL. It is a Compaq, and certainly no high end. But in any case, it maybe worth it to have a look at what they have for sale. You live around Barcelona, right? I'm sure there are specialist shops in that city that I can not even dream of in my corner of the "provinces". I think you should ask on opensuse-es mail list, too. There are, or were, people from that city which may expand that info. I do like HP. Maybe I have been lucky, though. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Am 12.01.2016 um 17:30 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2016-01-12 15:00, Daniel Bauer wrote:
(And if anybody has hints where to best buy in Spain: great!)
I got mine, of all sites, at Carrefour (!). After looking at several places, I discovered one that matched my requirements in there, and it included a 70€ rebate in purchases. Cheese and all those articles, LOL.
Thanks. Would have been fun, because I love cheese. But they don't have anything of the class (in computers I mean) of which I search.
It is a Compaq, and certainly no high end. But in any case, it maybe worth it to have a look at what they have for sale.
You live around Barcelona, right? I'm sure there are specialist shops in that city that I can not even dream of in my corner of the "provinces". I think you should ask on opensuse-es mail list, too. There are, or were, people from that city which may expand that info.
I do like HP. Maybe I have been lucky, though.
I had a HP and was very happy many years. But then the graphics card "burned" because it got too hot, and I read two customer reports on hp's online store (es) that the new machines get too hot, too. Don't know if they have a general ventilation problem... Will subscribe to the .es list to put my question about where to buy... regards Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 12/01/2016 19:23, Daniel Bauer a écrit :
I had a HP and was very happy many years. But then the graphics card "burned" because it got too hot, and I read two customer reports on hp's online store (es) that the new machines get too hot, too. Don't know if they have a general ventilation problem...
that's true of many low end laptops, that die after three years... but you ask for contradictories capacities: power / battery time duration. the better I've seen just yesterday: http://www.materiel.net/ordinateur-portable/asus-gx700vo-gc009t-i7-ssd-gtx-9... french, but probably also available in Spain. but neither small nor cheap... and I didn't test openSUSE on it (should work) :-)) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Daniel Bauer
I had a HP and was very happy many years. But then the graphics card "burned" because it got too hot, and I read two customer reports on hp's online store (es) that the new machines get too hot, too. Don't know if they have a general ventilation problem...
Will subscribe to the .es list to put my question about where to buy...
regards
My HP laptop is a few years old (2011?). The CPU fan recently failed. I decided to replace it myself. It has been an adventure in advanced disassembly reassembly to get it done. I have a wifi antenae wire in the wrong place currently. I need to disassemble again and move that wire. (Currently I can't install the DVD drive.) Anyway, the one fan handles the CPU and the graphics chips as well as a row of capacitors. fyi: Pavilion dv7 Greg -- Greg Freemyer www.IntelligentAvatar.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-01-12 19:23, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Am 12.01.2016 um 17:30 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
I do like HP. Maybe I have been lucky, though.
I had a HP and was very happy many years. But then the graphics card "burned" because it got too hot, and I read two customer reports on hp's online store (es) that the new machines get too hot, too. Don't know if they have a general ventilation problem...
Possibly it is a general problem with all laptops with powerful graphics. (Mine has pure Intel graphics only and intentionally, to conserve battery (ie, my purchase aim was battery life, not power)). I would run it permanently on top of fan "cooler" (is that the name?) A flat plastic box, wide as the laptop, with a wide fan in it, connected to one USB port, or to a mains-USB power adaptor. Continuously blows some air through the laptop. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
Am 12.01.2016 um 21:20 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2016-01-12 19:23, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Am 12.01.2016 um 17:30 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
I do like HP. Maybe I have been lucky, though.
I had a HP and was very happy many years. But then the graphics card "burned" because it got too hot, and I read two customer reports on hp's online store (es) that the new machines get too hot, too. Don't know if they have a general ventilation problem...
Possibly it is a general problem with all laptops with powerful graphics.
(Mine has pure Intel graphics only and intentionally, to conserve battery (ie, my purchase aim was battery life, not power)).
I would run it permanently on top of fan "cooler" (is that the name?) A flat plastic box, wide as the laptop, with a wide fan in it, connected to one USB port, or to a mains-USB power adaptor. Continuously blows some air through the laptop.
I'm going to travel, so can't have this cooler with me, but maybe keep the laptop on top of a car or outside a bus window :-) I see that my wishes are complicated: long battery life, high performance graphics, good cooling... affordable, too... and the manufacturers websites don't help much: every model is the best and the greatest... and in shops I see models and numbers that don't exist on the sites... I'm copying the lots of useful infos I get on this list (THANKS!) into a text file and will make sellers at least as confused as I am :-) -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-01-12 21:38, Daniel Bauer wrote:
I'm going to travel, so can't have this cooler with me, but maybe keep the laptop on top of a car or outside a bus window :-)
I travel with that thing. It makes the bag bulkier, of course...
I see that my wishes are complicated: long battery life, high performance graphics, good cooling... affordable, too... and the manufacturers websites don't help much: every model is the best and the greatest... and in shops I see models and numbers that don't exist on the sites...
LOL. Well, very possibly it will have Optimus hardware, so it will run Intel graphics while on battery. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Optimus Or the equivalent technology for AMD, if you prefer.
I'm copying the lots of useful infos I get on this list (THANKS!) into a text file and will make sellers at least as confused as I am :-)
Hardware hunting takes a lot of time and effort :-( Ah! I print all that info into real paper, gluing several pages into a huge piece. Then I mark interesting items with pen or pencil :-p -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 01/12/2016 06:00 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
(Must-haves: 15,6", very (very!) powerful and fast in graphics for large image/video editing, good screen, 1TB HD, maybe even + SSD for system, good battery life, I guess with Intel i7 65xx, Nvidia, 16GB mem...)
Check for those you can turn off UEFI in the bios. Buy the smallest hard disk you can find, then order the fastest and largest you will need, and perhaps a second mounting tray from the computer manufacturer. Keep the original disk. (Whether you ever boot from it or not is your decision). If the machine fails in warranty, you can return the original disk to the computer and avoid a lot of warranty arguments. Then at end of warranty buy a cheap external enclosure for that disk and nuke it to use as a backup or what ever. Install your linux on the bigger disk, and enjoy. Clearly an externally accessible disk drive bay is a plus with this scheme. If you don't HAVE to have this year's chipset/processor, your chances for incompatibility are reduced. -- After all is said and done, more is said than done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Am 12.01.2016 um 21:10 schrieb John Andersen:
On 01/12/2016 06:00 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
(Must-haves: 15,6", very (very!) powerful and fast in graphics for large image/video editing, good screen, 1TB HD, maybe even + SSD for system, good battery life, I guess with Intel i7 65xx, Nvidia, 16GB mem...)
Check for those you can turn off UEFI in the bios.
Is this the "secure boot"-thing?
Buy the smallest hard disk you can find, then order the fastest and largest you will need, and perhaps a second mounting tray from the computer manufacturer.
This is indeed a very good idea. You're a sly fox :-) (Uh, hope this word is as nice in english as in german, it is ment nice...)
Keep the original disk. (Whether you ever boot from it or not is your decision). If the machine fails in warranty, you can return the original disk to the computer and avoid a lot of warranty arguments. Then at end of warranty buy a cheap external enclosure for that disk and nuke it to use as a backup or what ever.
Install your linux on the bigger disk, and enjoy.
Clearly an externally accessible disk drive bay is a plus with this scheme.
If you don't HAVE to have this year's chipset/processor, your chances for incompatibility are reduced.
Good point. thanks! Daniel -- Daniel Bauer photographer Basel Barcelona http://www.daniel-bauer.com room in Barcelona: https://www.airbnb.es/rooms/2416137 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2016-01-12 21:27, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Am 12.01.2016 um 21:10 schrieb John Andersen:
Check for those you can turn off UEFI in the bios.
Is this the "secure boot"-thing?
Well, it is part of it. UEFI has more features, like requiring a different partitioning layout (GPT), different boot scheme... I believe it is better to learn live with it than disabling it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 01/12/2016 07:00 AM, Daniel Bauer wrote:
Hi list(eners)
I need to buy a new laptop and am very confused with the new hardware and it's compatibility with OpenSuse (I guess I will install leap?), especially this secure boot thing etc.
I see that most of the laptops come with Win10 plus special stuff (cloud space and don't know what else), but I plan to reformat the disks and make a pure, fully encrypted Linux-machine, no dual boot, but Win within a virtualbox (needed for some camera software).
What do I have to look for/make sure to have/not have, so that I can do a more or less easy install without being an expert, and without too much time to tinker and solve problems?
Anybody has experience with recent HP, Asus, Lenovo? And how about Toshiba, which always seem to be cheaper?
The tests I found are outdated (or not dated) or not related to Linux. So any hints are much appreciated!
(And if anybody has hints where to best buy in Spain: great!)
Thanks
Daniel
(Must-haves: 15,6", very (very!) powerful and fast in graphics for large image/video editing, good screen, 1TB HD, maybe even + SSD for system, good battery life, I guess with Intel i7 65xx, Nvidia, 16GB mem...)
What do you mean by high end? I have had great experience with Alienware laptops, first a 17 then 18. On the 18 I have 32GB of ram, 4TB of hard drive, dual graphics cards, i7-4940 4 core (=> 8 threads) CPU. The new ones have a newer graphics processor. I purchased mine from EBAY for $2400.00, but they show up for as much as $9000.00. I have Added two 2TB SSDs. Monitor is not touch screen, but I hate that option anyway. I have run 13.2 for over a year without any hardware problems. I built a Leap distribution on a USB drive, so I know it builds but have not upgraded my systems yet (I have 3 of these). The 18 is big and heavy, the 17 is about an inch smaller in each direction and 4 pounds lighter. I do not recall how many hard drives the 17 will accommodate, but with 2TB disks available that should not be a problem unless you do something like image processing. Just my opinion, Don -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (9)
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Andrei Borzenkov
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Billie Walsh
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Carlos E. R.
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Daniel Bauer
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don fisher
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Greg Freemyer
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jdd
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John Andersen
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Per Jessen