[opensuse] running without X
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult. What is all this crap in the OS now? ruben@workstation:~> ls /etc/permissions.* /etc/permissions.easy /etc/permissions.paranoid /etc/permissions.local /etc/permissions.secure /etc/permissions.d: mail-server postfix texlive mail-server.paranoid postfix.paranoid texlive.texlive -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#How_do_I_change_the_default_target.3F runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
What is all this crap in the OS now?
ruben@workstation:~> ls /etc/permissions.* /etc/permissions.easy /etc/permissions.paranoid /etc/permissions.local /etc/permissions.secure
/etc/permissions.d: mail-server postfix texlive mail-server.paranoid postfix.paranoid texlive.texlive
According to the "permissions" package: Permission settings of files and directories depending on the local security settings. The local security setting (easy, secure, or paranoid) can be configured in /etc/sysconfig/security. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:22:19AM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#How_do_I_change_the_default_target.3F
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs. Ruben
What is all this crap in the OS now?
ruben@workstation:~> ls /etc/permissions.* /etc/permissions.easy /etc/permissions.paranoid /etc/permissions.local /etc/permissions.secure
/etc/permissions.d: mail-server postfix texlive mail-server.paranoid postfix.paranoid texlive.texlive
According to the "permissions" package:
Permission settings of files and directories depending on the local security settings. The local security setting (easy, secure, or paranoid) can be configured in /etc/sysconfig/security.
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 To start in runlevel 3 ... edit the GRUB entry and append 3 at the end of the linux line. As alternative: ln -fs /usr/lib/systemd/system/runlevel3.target /etc/systemd/system/default.target will also work. Cheers :) I.Petrov On 10/27/2014 10:49 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:22:19AM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#How_do_I_change_the_default_target.3F
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs.
Ruben
What is all this crap in the OS now?
ruben@workstation:~> ls /etc/permissions.* /etc/permissions.easy /etc/permissions.paranoid /etc/permissions.local /etc/permissions.secure
/etc/permissions.d: mail-server postfix texlive mail-server.paranoid postfix.paranoid texlive.texlive
According to the "permissions" package:
Permission settings of files and directories depending on the local security settings. The local security setting (easy, secure, or paranoid) can be configured in /etc/sysconfig/security.
-- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
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Hello, On Mon, 27 Oct 2014, Ruben Safir wrote:
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal.
Yet. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgwNzQ See, told ya! systemd is gobbling up more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more ... And the minions are running yapping along behind it (and LP and KS) and I cannot, by far eat enough to balance the need to *puke* ... I guess GNU/Linux is about dead. It's now systemdOS. Or systemDoS[0]? Currently still using the linux kernel. Please, somebody stop those megalomaniacs[1], now bent on pulling CONFIG_VT out of the kernel as "just the next step"... -dn'Kenny'h, *mppfffpffmmmfpfpffffmmmmfffppmmmm* (I'd have a lot more to rant, but -owner would probably block me, as (rightly) being off-topic, and other "charges" ...) Not giving up though. And recycling an old sig ... [0] Just look at the auto-mounting while you try to e.g. repartition. *gah* If root unmounts /foo then /foo has to stay unmounted unless root says otherwise or the system is rebooted. Period. Oh, and BTW: I remember much of yapping by just those people now defending that systemd-automount-behaviour ("it's a state to be maintained" *FUCK YOU! systemd fanbois!*) when it was udev/hald that did the same thing. Heck, I even got a hald config because of that: ==== /etc/hal/fdi/information/media-check-disable-storage_model_DVD_RAM_GH22NP20.fdi ==== <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <deviceinfo version="0.2"> <device> <match key="info.udi" string="/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/storage_model_DVD _RAM_GH22NP20"> <merge key="storage.media_check_enabled" type="bool">false</merge> </match> </device> </deviceinfo> ==== All that just to get that fucking hald off my CDROM? *PUKE* Hm. "freedesktop.org". Hald? Was LP involved there? Yeah, YOU mightily beat up HAL on that, and now systemd is being even much worse, doing the same with HDDs/Partitions. And BTW: I disable(d) HAL and any auto-stuff on principle. I mount manually via fstab or completely via cmdline. And, JFTR: my mom (~70, using XFCE almost without a hitch instead of WinXP for about a year), asked me how she can disable the XFCE Thunar popping up when she puts a CD/DVD with Pics or a DVD in the drive. People are able to click on e.g. a cdrom icon! No need to automount (a only half-written CDROM) prematurely. That's what hald (sometimes?) did. Hald was severly criticized because of that. And what is systemd apparently now doing even with harddrives / partitions. *Knock knock* Hello? Anybody home? JFTR: I never used HAL. Except disabling it. Fucking auto*. The old modules conf with below/above was nice. Nothing was loaded until a device node was opened. Now, it's all backwards. The price for "auto* finding every device by loading every module in sight" (or so). *GAH* But that's all pettitesses compared to systemDoS. [1] I don't care how. Terminal solutions would be just fine with me, thank you very much, but a nice thick and reinforced sturdy concrete-wall on all sides, liberally padded on the inside, is what I'd propose. There should be some nice locations "ready-built" in 194x in Berlin (too hard to demolish!), just waiting to be padded on the inside (or not actually, don't care). Oh, and don't think I have no other ideas for the responsible! -- If systemd is the solution, can we please have the problem back? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2014 07:49 PM, David Haller wrote:
Yet.http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTgwNzQ
See, told ya! systemd is gobbling up more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more and more ...
<snip - the good stuff> I've long since given up fighting what appears to be (change for the sake of change in Linux). Every year when we get the new set of devs fresh off the "gee we learned a new way of doing things" bus, what was a stable and well thought out system -- is scrapped for the untested idea and unverifiable promise of something new. While being chided for remaining on 11.4 for so long, I move to 13.1 only to find function-key backlight control broken (removed from Xorg by weenies that weren't taught the meaning of backwards compatibility), and a host of other headaches. But surely all of the promises made and reasons given for all the radical changes must mean notable improvement that I will see and appreciate and see right-off-the-bat, right? ... Ah, yes, I see it! All packages got bigger and require more resources to do the same thing they used to do on a fraction of each. Stability, in OS design is worth 2 promised new features or more functionality -- every time. Now what was that reason business gives for *not* being able to adopt Linux as a desktop? Something about the cost of retraining with every release dwarfing any potential savings on software cost... Gigabytes of RAM and terabytes of hard-drive space have led to some very lazy and inefficient code. However, it is reassuring, after hours of retraining, to be able to set a default target to multi-user.target and actually boot to a familiar terminal screen (even if it does take twice the computing power to get there...) Just wait until consolekit goes away.... Keep the faith... -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:22:19AM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#How_do_I_change_the_default_target.3F
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs.
Please report as a bug. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs.
Please report as a bug.
How do you determine that the software around systemd is the culprit (instead of an open issue with the Linux driver module configuration)? Regards, Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Markus Elfring wrote:
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs. Please report as a bug.
How do you determine that the software around systemd is the culprit (instead of an open issue with the Linux driver module configuration)?
I don't know, but when Ruben opens the report, someone will no doubt investigate it. /Per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
How do you determine that the software around systemd is the culprit (instead of an open issue with the Linux driver module configuration)?
I don't know, but when Ruben opens the report, someone will no doubt investigate it.
I made a similar observation for the unexpected terminal display failure. But the situation is different on my computer because I try to run newer self-built Linux kernel versions. I did not find anything useful in corresponding log files so far. I am curious if I will need to connect to the serial port in the near future so that more interesting data could be retrieved. Regards, Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-10-28 09:51, Per Jessen wrote:
Markus Elfring wrote:
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs. Please report as a bug.
How do you determine that the software around systemd is the culprit (instead of an open issue with the Linux driver module configuration)?
I don't know, but when Ruben opens the report, someone will no doubt investigate it.
No, because he has made too many changes, and he doesn't report actual facts and error messages. The error he gets initially on using "startx" is intentional and documented. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 10/28/2014 07:52 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
No, because he has made too many changes, and he doesn't report actual facts and error messages.
INDEED!
The error he gets initially on using "startx" is intentional and documented.
That too. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-28 09:51, Per Jessen wrote:
Markus Elfring wrote:
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs. Please report as a bug.
How do you determine that the software around systemd is the culprit (instead of an open issue with the Linux driver module configuration)?
I don't know, but when Ruben opens the report, someone will no doubt investigate it.
No, because he has made too many changes, and he doesn't report actual facts and error messages.
Yes, well, whoever would have picked up the report would have been the first to tell him. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (0.0°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 09:51:53AM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
Markus Elfring wrote:
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs. Please report as a bug.
How do you determine that the software around systemd is the culprit (instead of an open issue with the Linux driver module configuration)?
I don't know, but when Ruben opens the report, someone will no doubt investigate it.
Should I send you a video? I can do that. Ruben
/Per -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 09:51:53AM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
Markus Elfring wrote:
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs. Please report as a bug.
How do you determine that the software around systemd is the culprit (instead of an open issue with the Linux driver module configuration)?
I don't know, but when Ruben opens the report, someone will no doubt investigate it.
Should I send you a video? I can do that.
Don't send anything to me, add it to the bugreport. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:22:19AM +0100, Per Jessen wrote:
Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Systemd#How_do_I_change_the_default_target.3F
runlevel 3 is now called multi-user.target
That is not working.... systemd is not capable of giving a terminal. It is just a blank screen that doesn't respond to keyboard inputs.
On my brand new Factory systems this worked very well: systemd isolate runlevel3 -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.4°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-10-27 10:59, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
It is very trivial. Just choose the default target to be: /etc/systemd/system/default.target -> /usr/lib/systemd/system/runlevel3.target or multi-user.target You can do it in YaST. To switch temporarily to graphical mode, you can issue "init 5", or "systemctl start graphical.target".
What is all this crap in the OS now?
ruben@workstation:~> ls /etc/permissions.* /etc/permissions.easy /etc/permissions.paranoid /etc/permissions.local /etc/permissions.secure
Has been there for decades, so not "now". Just leave it alone :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 10/27/2014 07:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
What is all this crap in the OS now?
ruben@workstation:~> ls /etc/permissions.* /etc/permissions.easy /etc/permissions.paranoid /etc/permissions.local /etc/permissions.secure Has been there for decades, so not "now". Just leave it alone :-)
I recall playing with that in 10.something, so it is certainly not new and it is part of what makes suse a OS for all types of contexts, not just home desktops. -- The only real training for leadership is leadership. - Antony Jay -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, On Mon, 27 Oct 2014, Anton Aylward wrote:
On 10/27/2014 07:34 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
What is all this crap in the OS now?
ruben@workstation:~> ls /etc/permissions.* /etc/permissions.easy /etc/permissions.paranoid /etc/permissions.local /etc/permissions.secure Has been there for decades, so not "now". Just leave it alone :-)
I recall playing with that in 10.something, so it is certainly not new and it is part of what makes suse a OS for all types of contexts, not just home desktops.
It is there since _at least_ SuSE 6.2 (from 1999). $ zgrep 'permissions.[esl]' /var/lib/pin//ARCHIVES_6.2.gz ./CD1/suse/a1/aaa_base.rpm: [..] 5670 Jul 20 11:18 /etc/permissions.easy ./CD1/suse/a1/aaa_base.rpm: [..] 5625 Apr 30 15:55 /etc/permissions.secure ./CD1/suse/a1/perl.rpm: line to /etc/permissions.local and run SuSEconfig. ./CD1/suse/n1/seyon.rpm: /etc/permissions.local and call SuSEconfig -dnh -- Yay! I have found the last bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bug bu%$@#$@#%$@# Error: Missing Carrier Signal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2014 01:34 PM, David Haller wrote:
It is there since _at least_ SuSE 6.2 (from 1999).
Thank you. I take it that if it seems 'new' it really means 'previously unaware', so the comment to leave it alone is very apropos. -- In organizations, real power and energy is generated through relationships. The patterns of relationships and the capacities to form them are more important than tasks, functions, roles, and positions. - Margaret Wheatly Leadership and the New Science -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 12:34:00PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 10:59, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
It is very trivial. Just choose the default target to be:
No, that is not working. The Terminal Counsel is just a blank screen and X just will not start by hand. It says there is no permisions to log files and that X is not suid. Ruben
/etc/systemd/system/default.target -> /usr/lib/systemd/system/runlevel3.target
or multi-user.target
You can do it in YaST.
To switch temporarily to graphical mode, you can issue "init 5", or "systemctl start graphical.target".
What is all this crap in the OS now?
ruben@workstation:~> ls /etc/permissions.* /etc/permissions.easy /etc/permissions.paranoid /etc/permissions.local /etc/permissions.secure
Has been there for decades, so not "now". Just leave it alone :-)
-- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-27 16:47 (UTC-0400):
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 12:34:00PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 10:59, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
It is very trivial. Just choose the default target to be:
No, that is not working. The Terminal Counsel is just a blank screen and X just will not start by hand. It says there is no permisions to log files and that X is not suid.
"It" what? How do you tell on a black screen what is or isn't working? What gfxchip does your system have (lspci | grep VGA)? What changes if you clear quiet and splash from cmdline? Does the Grub failsafe selection make any difference? /etc/permissions.local gives a clue how to deal with suid. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 05:41:30PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-27 16:47 (UTC-0400):
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 12:34:00PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 10:59, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
It is very trivial. Just choose the default target to be:
No, that is not working. The Terminal Counsel is just a blank screen and X just will not start by hand. It says there is no permisions to log files and that X is not suid.
"It" what? How do you tell on a black screen what is or isn't working?
killall Xorg; startx that was on way. Another effort was to bring it down to init 1 and bring it up to init 3. Then it would give a blank screen So then I set up the getty processes to run out of the box with some systeadmin gui. Then I got responding terminals with CTL ALT F1 EXECPT that the fonts are all fucked up and stretched out, and the login hangs for a minute.... I've tried dozens of variations of crap.. Nothing is working like it is execpted to. And here is a great one, switch to a terminal and the sound goes off? How is that possible on a multiuser OS? this sucks.... I sick of this broken CRAP. Everything WORKED in 11.3
What gfxchip does your system have (lspci | grep VGA)?
What changes if you clear quiet and splash from cmdline?
Does the Grub failsafe selection make any difference?
/etc/permissions.local gives a clue how to deal with suid. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-27 22:29 (UTC-0400):
Everything WORKED in 11.3
11.3 is seriously old. Did you try 13.1 installation a 2nd or 3rd time and get the same problems? Have you done anything to ensure you aren't experiencing hardware failure that just happens to coincide with when you chose to upgrade? FWIW, I have more than 15 13.1 KDE, LXDE & TDE installations on test systems, with gfxchips from mga, sis, intel, nvidia and ati. 90% of the time I boot them with 3 on cmdline, and start X when if and when I want using startx. Currently they all give me the tty behavior I expect (same as on Fedora 20+ and Mageia 4+) little different from 11.3 except for controlling their ttys via KMS, with no visible difference. Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-27 22:57 (UTC-0400):
No - ALL I did was change the OS from 12.1 to 13.1 with a clean install of 13.1 and then copying my home directly back....sigh
With a 3 release jump, WRT X DEs, you probably shouldn't have copied all of home back, but instead selectively copied things like .mozilla, and let other things be configured fresh. That shouldn't have impacted your ttys at all though. If you want to create an /etc/X11/xorg.conf file, or /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ files to perform the same function, you can. They will be used, at least initially, but may be overridden by a DM unless configured otherwise (e.g. kscreen in KDE post-4.10.5). All my installations use them at least some of the time, according to my purpose in booting or running X at all, and according to what display I connect them. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:15:47PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-27 22:29 (UTC-0400):
Everything WORKED in 11.3
11.3 is seriously old. Did you try 13.1 installation a 2nd or 3rd time and get the same problems? Have you done anything to ensure you aren't experiencing hardware failure that just happens to coincide with when you chose to upgrade?
FWIW, I have more than 15 13.1 KDE, LXDE & TDE installations on test systems, with gfxchips from mga, sis, intel, nvidia and ati. 90% of the time I boot them with 3 on cmdline, and start X when if and when I want using startx. Currently they all give me the tty behavior I expect (same as on Fedora 20+ and Mageia 4+) little different from 11.3 except for controlling their ttys via KMS, with no visible difference.
Oh that is good. Mine is not doing that. It's like I can't get the graphics user interface to release the damn terminal. I used to install without X all topgether and then install it after I have the internals working. Then I would add the X11 packages one at a time. I also can't get rid of plymouth, which I think is in the way. Pidgin is also not working correctly now. I don't know what that is about. It is complaining it needs TLS encryptopm but encryption is ON. When I do it about 20 times, it finally takes. The list of broekn things just goes on and on
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-27 22:57 (UTC-0400):
No - ALL I did was change the OS from 12.1 to 13.1 with a clean install of 13.1 and then copying my home directly back....sigh
With a 3 release jump, WRT X DEs, you probably shouldn't have copied all of home back, but instead selectively copied things like .mozilla, and let other things be configured fresh. That shouldn't have impacted your ttys at all though.
If you want to create an /etc/X11/xorg.conf file, or /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ files to perform the same function, you can. They will be used, at least initially, but may be overridden by a DM unless configured otherwise (e.g. kscreen in KDE post-4.10.5). All my installations use them at least some of the time, according to my purpose in booting or running X at all, and according to what display I connect them. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/28/2014 05:36 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
The list of broekn things just goes on and on
if so much is broken then like Felix I'd wonder about the jump across 3 releases. It sounds like the applications are broken. Sometimes people recommend creating a brand new account and hence a new set of DOT config files. Perhaps that would show some differnt results. perhaps unmounting tour old /home and setting up a new, clean /home might show a difference. Perhaps Felix's idea of copy across one at a time the config files might produce something. As people keep pointing out, currete X11 is protty smart and can make a good job without any config files. If X is your impedimnet than try removing (or moving to a new name) /etc/X11/xorgg.conf.d/. I've done that on systems in the past to get them to work and then added back specifics for keyboard and EDID problematic screen. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/28/2014 11:36 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
............ - charming wedding pictures { would be an investment in time : 5 mins pruning a few out-of-focus pics } ........... regards ellan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:15:47PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-27 22:29 (UTC-0400):
Everything WORKED in 11.3
11.3 is seriously old. It may be old but it all worked.
Did you try 13.1 installation a 2nd or 3rd time and get the same problems?
Actually, this went from 9. something to 10, to 11, running 11.3 for a long time and then moving to 12.2.... and then things started to break. I did a fresh install with 13.1 and now everything I touch is broken...or so it seems.
Have you done anything to ensure you aren't experiencing hardware failure that just happens to coincide with when you chose to upgrade?
I've test hardware, it is fine. In fact, I ran a live 12.2 disk on it for two days because of a project, and it worked fine.
FWIW, I have more than 15 13.1 KDE, LXDE & TDE installations on test systems, with gfxchips from mga, sis, intel, nvidia and ati. 90% of the time I boot them with 3 on cmdline, and start X when if and when I want using startx. Currently they all give me the tty behavior I expect (same as on Fedora 20+ and Mageia 4+) little different from 11.3 except for controlling their ttys via KMS, with no visible difference.
No ... my webserver is running on a fit/pc with opensuse on it and it NEVER displayed correctly.... and that is just the beginning of a long series of issues. How are you setting up your workstations to start without X and then run with startx. And I'm not married to startx either. Its just a damn script. I can start with xinit ..... whatever if it would just WORK as it is supposed to and always have previously.
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-27 22:57 (UTC-0400):
No - ALL I did was change the OS from 12.1 to 13.1 with a clean install of 13.1 and then copying my home directly back....sigh
With a 3 release jump, WRT X DEs, you probably shouldn't have copied all of home back, but instead selectively copied things like .mozilla, and let other things be configured fresh. That shouldn't have impacted your ttys at all though.
No, I should be able to copy my home directy as it is. I've used the same directory with the same configuration files, changing them as I desire, and on multiple system, for a LONG TIME...decades.. even.
If you want to create an /etc/X11/xorg.conf file, or /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ files to perform the same function, you can. They will be used, at least initially, but may be overridden by a DM unless configured otherwise (e.g. kscreen in KDE post-4.10.5). All my installations use them at least some of the time, according to my purpose in booting or running X at all, and o> according to what display I connect them.
Exactly!!! that is what I want. I've spent many years working with this system, and I want it to run like I tell it too, and not as it wants to. There isn't even SaX any longer. There is nothing available now to set your settings for a display that is problematic, or that you want to tweak.
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-10-27 21:47, Ruben Safir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 12:34:00PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 10:59, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
It is very trivial. Just choose the default target to be:
No, that is not working. The Terminal Counsel is just a blank screen and X just will not start by hand. It says there is no permisions to log files and that X is not suid.
And it is right. Are you trying to use "startx" as plain user? No, it will not work. If you want to use "startx", you have to make "/usr/bin/Xorg" suid - as a comment in "/etc/permissions.local" says. Did you change the overall system security policy from "easy" to "secure", perchance? Don't. grep PERMISSION_SECURITY /etc/sysconfig/security Setting it to secure or paranoid is a real pain. Don't. What I told you to do was «issue "init 5", or "systemctl start graphical.target"». I never told you to use startx, because it is quite problematic, as you are finding out. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 03:38:34AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 21:47, Ruben Safir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 12:34:00PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 10:59, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
It is very trivial. Just choose the default target to be:
No, that is not working. The Terminal Counsel is just a blank screen and X just will not start by hand. It says there is no permisions to log files and that X is not suid.
And it is right.
Are you trying to use "startx" as plain user? No, it will not work. If you want to use "startx", you have to make "/usr/bin/Xorg" suid - as a comment in "/etc/permissions.local" says.
Did you change the overall system security policy from "easy" to "secure", perchance? Don't.
grep PERMISSION_SECURITY /etc/sysconfig/security
Setting it to secure or paranoid is a real pain. Don't.
What I told you to do was «issue "init 5", or "systemctl start graphical.target"». I never told you to use startx, because it is quite problematic, as you are finding out.
It is problematic because it is BROKEN. Putting it in init 5 is EXACTLY what I ***don't*** want to do. It is so damn hard now to just start X11 on the command line? What the hell is wrong with this system now. I want to start X11 when I want to from the command line so I can get around all that broken crap involving GDM,KDM XDM CRAPDM. Why is this so hard to do or to understand. You bring a problematic systen up without X11 and then run it and debug it from the virtual terminal by creating a display. Every tool to work with a display has been removed by my vi editor and the /etc/x.conf file... damn
-- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-10-28 03:47, Ruben Safir wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 03:38:34AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It is problematic because it is BROKEN. Putting it in init 5 is EXACTLY what I ***don't*** want to do.
It is so damn hard now to just start X11 on the command line? What the hell is wrong with this system now. I want to start X11 when I want to from the command line so I can get around all that broken crap involving GDM,KDM XDM CRAPDM.
Ok, I leave the thread now. Fend on your own if you wish, I'm out. I do not want another argument. :-/ - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlRPBZQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UrJwCdHHu/KYwTsdo9kYzdwM1Y8+B1 Li0AniXKbRA+t3Q/wICrxhqpYter5AdO =rmMV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 03:55:20AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2014-10-28 03:47, Ruben Safir wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 03:38:34AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It is problematic because it is BROKEN. Putting it in init 5 is EXACTLY what I ***don't*** want to do.
It is so damn hard now to just start X11 on the command line? What the hell is wrong with this system now. I want to start X11 when I want to from the command line so I can get around all that broken crap involving GDM,KDM XDM CRAPDM.
Ok, I leave the thread now. Fend on your own if you wish, I'm out. I do not want another argument. :-/
Believe it or not, I'm having the same feeling. I've been using SuSE since most of the people on this list were little children and suddenly NOTHING works correctly....not even a damn plain terminal. This OS is now broken to the core. I just want to get back to basics. Bring the system by default to multiuser terminal mode and then start X11 on demand from the command line. The IS doesn't speak VESA VT100 Terminal any longer? Ruben -- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2014 10:02 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
Believe it or not, I'm having the same feeling. I've been using SuSE since most of the people on this list were little children and suddenly NOTHING works correctly....not even a damn plain terminal.
This OS is now broken to the core. I just want to get back to basics. Bring the system by default to multiuser terminal mode and then start X11 on demand from the command line.
The IS doesn't speak VESA VT100 Terminal any longer?
Yes it is frustrating. I haven't attempted it, but the promise was we should be able to boot with a default target of 'multi-user.target', create an ~/.xinitrc and then 'startx' until our heart's content. If that isn't working -- that needs to be fixed. I haven't had issues doing that on Arch, but thankfully I haven't tried on 13.1. Have you tried with an older ~/.xinitrc from a prior opensuse version? That is how I ran 11.4, booting into one or 6-7 desktops as I desired. I still have a disk in a drawer somewhere I can pull files from (assuming the bad sectors haven't multiplied) I am very interested in a solution here. I have a busy week, but when I get time, I'll default 13.1 to multi-user and join in the frustration. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-10-28 07:03, David C. Rankin wrote:
Yes it is frustrating. I haven't attempted it, but the promise was we should be able to boot with a default target of 'multi-user.target', create an ~/.xinitrc and then 'startx' until our heart's content.
It does work fine, with some limitations. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 10/28/2014 07:45 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-28 07:03, David C. Rankin wrote:
Yes it is frustrating. I haven't attempted it, but the promise was we should be able to boot with a default target of 'multi-user.target', create an ~/.xinitrc and then 'startx' until our heart's content.
It does work fine, with some limitations.
+1 That so much else of Ruben's is broken indicates that there are more basic problems and I think what Felix said about an upgrade that jumped 3 releases may have a lot to do with it. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2014 10:47 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
[...] What the hell is wrong with this system now.
Every tool to work with a display has been removed by my vi editor and the /etc/x.conf file...
You mean that you've edited the config using VI? It sounds to me that you've hacked away and broken piles of stuff. It sounds like you're angry and frustrated and have just hacked away and done a lot of damage. This is one of the reasons people experiment using virtual machines, so that they can can restore a baseline image quite easily. Right now I am, and I think Carlos probably is, very unsure of your system as a whole. You are claiming that things don't work for you that do work for us and seem to work on our unmodified baselines. We really don't know how much you've modified and what the impact and side effects are. You are not reporting error messages clearly or accurately and you are blaming systemd for things that have nothing to do with it. Yes, you are frustrated, and that seems to have made you angry, but All that is doing is making the situation worse.
around all that broken crap involving GDM,KDM XDM CRAPDM.
I think that is part of your problem right there. There are many reasons we have those login managers. Logging and 'proving' that X works and avoiding many of the problems you've described are among them. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 03:38:34AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
What I told you to do was «issue "init 5", or "systemctl start graphical.target"». I never told you to use startx, because it is quite problematic, as you are finding out.
It is problematic because it is BROKEN. Putting it in init 5 is EXACTLY what I ***don't*** want to do.
---- Carlos is right... As root (usually), ** if you have your system defaulting to "init 3" (tty console with 1-6 being vt's), then after the system is up and running -- if you want your system to start it's "graphical state", you tell it to go to "state 5" -- which is the X11 state. That will move it from the default "state 3" that you seem to be saying you want to boot up in, by default (it is also my system's default state, as I use my linux system as a server not a display server). Typing in 'init 5' under sysVinit and, I'm told, under systemd, should temporarily "move the system into the GUI (with X). In a tty window (like xterm), if you type "init 3" -- the system should end your X-session (abruptly! -- so everything better be saved!) and put you back at full-screen terminal window (aka vt0). Using 'init 5' at run-time guarantees that all of the "X" support processes (right now, on my system, that is *only* "xdm"), but it could also start "xfs" (the font server) if it was only used for local font serving. Hope that helps a bit... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:38:34PM -0700, Linda Walsh wrote:
Ruben Safir wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 03:38:34AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
What I told you to do was «issue "init 5", or "systemctl start graphical.target"». I never told you to use startx, because it is quite problematic, as you are finding out.
It is problematic because it is BROKEN. Putting it in init 5 is EXACTLY what I ***don't*** want to do.
----
Carlos is right... As root (usually), ** if you have your system defaulting to "init 3" (tty console with 1-6 being vt's), then after the system is up and running -- if you want your system to start it's "graphical state", you tell it to go to "state 5" -- which is the X11 state.
No, Carlos is wrong is so far as that is NOT what I want to do. I do NOT want to use xdm et al. X is a program I want to run from my terminal manually at run level 3. There is no rule and there is NO REASON to have to restart an initialize an entire run level and relogin just to start the graphic displa manager. It is irrational to think otherwise. I don't want my system at run level 5. I don't want to log in to XDM and I don't want the overhead.
That will move it from the default "state 3" that you seem to be saying you want to boot up in, by default (it is also my system's default state, as I use my linux system as a server not a display server).
Typing in 'init 5' under sysVinit and, I'm told, under systemd, should temporarily "move the system into the GUI (with X).
No, that is another run level. It is reinitializing the entire system.
In a tty window (like xterm), if you type "init 3" -- the system should end your X-session (abruptly! -- so everything better be saved!) and put you back at full-screen terminal window (aka vt0).
It doesn't. It just does not understand init 3 at all and it hangs. ..although I think sometimes it kicks back out to run level 5. there are so many problems I forget which ones are which already.
Using 'init 5' at run-time guarantees that all of the "X" support processes (right now, on my system, that is *only* "xdm"), but it could also start "xfs" (the font server) if it was only used for local font serving.
Hope that helps a bit...
xinit will kick off xfs, or at least i never had a problem with fonts until now under init 5 and systemd where it is totally screwed up now. Or maybe that is the removal of KDE that caused all the fonts in X to get screwed up....not that it matters at this point. This whole path of a desktop environment and systemd in init 5 isn't worth the problem it has caused and I want to throw it all out by coming up in run level 3 and starting x manually with xinit. I used to have 6 kids in the house and EACH KID used to have their own X11 display running simutansously on F7 F8 F9 F10 F11 and F12 One kid would use the system, and lock their screen and walk away in the middle of work and then another might come over, flip screen and unlock their display, without needing to log off. and that was on a 586 arch on running opensuse 8. This thing is completely broken now. X11 is designed to function for multiple users just like this. Ruben
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/28/2014 05:20 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
It is irrational to think otherwise. I don't want my system at run level 5. I don't want to log in to XDM and I don't want the overhead.
As has been pointed out, its not overhead, it makes sure the environment is properly set up. I would add that it also has its own logging that you can set up. Please, instead of being so negative, try it, and if it still doesn't work, turn on the XDM logging, since it will supply us with valuable information as to why it doesn't work and which can help us address your problem. So far you haven't been very helpful in that area, you just told us what you want and that it doesn't work. We've suggested what does work for us. Why not try it. Its an area we're experienced in and can do better debugging. Perhaps we can uncover your problem. It may be that the problem has nothing to do with X and is more fundamental, since you say that much more is 'broken'. Perhaps we should be looking at your dmesg logs. Either way, please work with us and try what we suggest and report the results and logs accurately. Merely telling us that it doesn't work and sticking with what you're trying and have established doesn't work is getting you nowhere. Trying what we suggest might get somewhere, and even if it doesn't the logs will make sense to us since they are in a context that we are used to. But please get out of this loop of doing things that clearly don't work and complaining about it. Try something else, try what we are suggesting even if its not the end result you want. Think of it as us experimenting by proxy :-) -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-28 17:20 (UTC-0400):
This thing is completely broken now.
IOW, it's time to start from scratch. Complaints about how well things used to work aren't going to help anyone who isn't already ignoring your grumbling to help you figure out how to fix it. AFAICT, the rest of us who like booting 13.1 to "runlevel 3" and then running startx are able to without the problems you've reported. FWIW, more than one loaded X instance is working here too. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-28 17:20 (UTC-0400):
maybe that is the removal of KDE that caused....
Then start over, and don't let KDE get installed in the first place. Do a minimal X install, and add only what you want installed initially in detailed package selection. After a minimal X installation, set "solver.onlyRequires = true" in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf before installing anything more, to minimize the number of packages that actually get installed against your wishes. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 06:42:36PM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-28 17:20 (UTC-0400):
maybe that is the removal of KDE that caused....
Then start over, and don't let KDE get installed in the first place. Do a minimal X install, and add only what you want installed initially in detailed package selection. After a minimal X installation, set "solver.onlyRequires = true" in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf before installing anything more, to minimize the number of packages that actually get installed against your wishes.
Thank you for some useful information..... It will have to wait for the time being though. I actually have to get some work done WITH this broken peice of garbage in addition to getting it to work correctly. Its feeling like crossing 5 lanes to make an exit you just missed on i95 near Newark Airport. Ruben
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 03:38:34AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 21:47, Ruben Safir wrote:
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 12:34:00PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 10:59, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
It is very trivial. Just choose the default target to be:
No, that is not working. The Terminal Counsel is just a blank screen and X just will not start by hand. It says there is no permisions to log files and that X is not suid.
And it is right.
Are you trying to use "startx" as plain user? No, it will not work. If you want to use "startx", you have to make "/usr/bin/Xorg" suid - as a comment in "/etc/permissions.local" says.
Did you change the overall system security policy from "easy" to "secure", perchance? Don't.
No - ALL I did was change the OS from 12.1 to 13.1 with a clean install of 13.1 and then copying my home directly back....sigh ------------------------------------------------------------------------- DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2014 09:57 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
No - ALL I did was change the OS from 12.1 to 13.1 with a clean install of 13.1 and then copying my home directly back....sigh
I did 11.4 -> 13.1 the same way. There were a number of the conf (~/.dirs) I had to remove due to changes. As mention in the other post, the basic boot to multi-user.target, setup ~/.xinitrc, startx into any desktop must work. If it doesn't something is royally fsck'ed up. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 12:34:00PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 10:59, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
It is very trivial. Just choose the default target to be:
/etc/systemd/system/default.target -> /usr/lib/systemd/system/runlevel3.target
or multi-user.target
You can do it in YaST.
To switch temporarily to graphical mode, you can issue "init 5", or "systemctl start graphical.target".
What is all this crap in the OS now?
ruben@workstation:~> ls /etc/permissions.* /etc/permissions.easy /etc/permissions.paranoid /etc/permissions.local /etc/permissions.secure
Has been there for decades, so not "now". Just leave it alone :-)
The error messages when trying to run X from the command line said to change the file to include x11 BUT, it didn't do anything, so I just used chmod to setuid, and that almost worked. It then died because wmaker coouldn't find libraries that were under /lib/ I think. I got fed up and just uninstalled wmaker all together and compiled by hand. Now it works except that it doesn't show up as a manager in kdm3 there is just no end of these problems. And that is why I wanted to bring the system up without X running at all. Unfortunaltely, system_DDD is still running and not giving me a working terminal! It still doesn't do an intit 3 run level correctly at all :(
-- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2014 10:18 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
The error messages when trying to run X from the command line said to change the file to include x11 BUT, it didn't do anything, so I just used chmod to setuid, and that almost worked.
This is the kind of error reporting I hate. I know what happened because I've met it myself. When the system starts in graphical mode the X server is started by a process that has root privileged. When you run xinit as a normal user you might get a message saying that you don't have the permissions, perhaps you need to make the X server setuid root. Of course that doesn't mean it will work, only that it will execute. It would be nice if you told those of us who haven't met this before the exact error messages. Now if the X won't start it may be for a couple of reasons. You hint at library problems but fail to say what the exact error messages were. But as Carlos points out, running startx or xinit is going to be problematic UNLESS you are specifically debugging X such as I was when porting to new hardware. If you had done as Carlos said then you would have bypassed some of the problems. Either way, if X does come up, and using the "systemctl start graphical.target" will take you though a path that gives more information in the log files, you should be looking at the log files! At the very least, getting a graphical login prompt tells you that X is working :-) The graphical login prompt should also offer other Dms. You can check easily across the alternatives. If starting any of them fails it will be in the logs. Please report the exact log error messages. For example WHAT libraries are missing. It may be the libraries are there but the executable was compiled with the assumption they were elsewhere. There are tools to investigate the likes of that. So far, none of what you've reported seems to be a systemd problem. It seem that among the systemd haters, everything gets blamed on system regardless of the real cause. -- Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. - Abraham Lincoln -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-10-28 03:50, Anton Aylward wrote:
Now if the X won't start it may be for a couple of reasons. You hint at library problems but fail to say what the exact error messages were.
Because he has started to change things all over the place like mad.
But as Carlos points out, running startx or xinit is going to be problematic UNLESS you are specifically debugging X such as I was when porting to new hardware. If you had done as Carlos said then you would have bypassed some of the problems.
It is plain simple: startx is deprecated and not really supported. I'm not saying I agree with this, only that is is this way. And it is not a recent issue. There are several things that break with startx, like for instance, sound or automounting sticks. It is possible to work around most of the issues, and some people do. I do sometimes. And the first item is making "/usr/bin/Xorg" suid, and this at least is prominently documented. He even listed the file where it is documented exactly what single line to change in the configuration. That's all that was needed, a single line changed.
So far, none of what you've reported seems to be a systemd problem. It seem that among the systemd haters, everything gets blamed on system regardless of the real cause.
And I'm not walking that useless war path again. I do not want to be part of this thread. I'm sorry that I replied to his OP. :-( -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 10/27/2014 10:05 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
It is plain simple: startx is deprecated and not really supported. I'm not saying I agree with this, only that is is this way. And it is not a recent issue.
Startx is deprecated? Does this include the desktop provided files such as 'startfluxbox', 'startkde', etc..? If booting to multi-user and then typing 'startfluxbox', etc.. fails, that is something we need to fix. Since opensuse retains consolekit, there should be no reason that 'startx' shouldn't work. Get rid of consolekit, then yes, user-session-tracking is broken with systemd in most desktops that have not implemented a udev/systemd multi-seat support (most haven't despite 12.2 promises regarding Xorg - https://en.opensuse.org/Archive:Features_12.2 [see Basic tools/Graphics (last sentence)]) I'll have to find time to test, but the basic stuff should just work -- startx, or startwhateverwm, included. (at least from the standpoint of calling the correct wrapper needed to start the graphical target and load the desired desktop under systemd) -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
David C. Rankin composed on 2014-10-28 01:25 (UTC-0500):
Startx is deprecated?
I've been reading that for years. The objection has to do with X requiring root permission to function. That hasn't yet stopped it from working in 12.x or 13.x or Fedora or Mageia, though suid may be prerequisite. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2014-10-28 07:36, Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2014-10-28 01:25 (UTC-0500):
Startx is deprecated?
I've been reading that for years. The objection has to do with X requiring root permission to function. That hasn't yet stopped it from working in 12.x or 13.x or Fedora or Mageia, though suid may be prerequisite.
Exactly. Thus, if you suid the "/usr/bin/Xorg" via a single character edit in a single line in the single file /etc/permissions.local, you get it working. Simple! ;-) With security caveats that may be important to you or not (just read the comments around that line in that file if you wish to learn about those). However, that is not the only issue why I say that it is deprecated. The display manager also handles seat permissions. There are several things that the desktop (say gnome or kde) expect to be setup when gdm/kdm handle the reins to them, which simply put, startx doesn't do because nobody has made the code changes into it. That's why I say it is deprecated, because it has not kept up. So it may be that you plug in an usb stick and maybe it does not mount automatically or by the seated user. Or that you can not play sounds. You scratch around, till you find that if instead of "startx" you do "init 5", everything works just fine. So you can go back and do changes to startx so that those things also work. I know some people do this. Or just "who cares" and use "init 5" for a single session. And this is not related at all to systemd, so please stop blaming it. Blame it for real things, not wild geese chases. They happen about the same time, perhaps. It is due to Xorg changes, and desktop changes. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlRPhqQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VksQCgmRG8DYYkezPWWyZDGfInAdqc PpoAnA/MquG1VX9pM+ga5h6yoQ3o2WXK =VOp7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 01:05:59PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 2014-10-28 07:36, Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2014-10-28 01:25 (UTC-0500):
Startx is deprecated?
I've been reading that for years. The objection has to do with X requiring root permission to function. That hasn't yet stopped it from working in 12.x or 13.x or Fedora or Mageia, though suid may be prerequisite.
Exactly.
Thus, if you suid the "/usr/bin/Xorg" via a single character edit in a single line in the single file /etc/permissions.local, you get it working. Simple! ;-)
No that will NOT work. You have to at least manually chmod the binary for starters and then wing it from there.,
With security caveats that may be important to you or not (just read the comments around that line in that file if you wish to learn about those).
However, that is not the only issue why I say that it is deprecated. The display manager also handles seat permissions. There are several things that the desktop (say gnome or kde) expect to be setup when gdm/kdm handle the reins to them, which simply put, startx doesn't do because nobody has made the code changes into it.
That's why I say it is deprecated, because it has not kept up.
So it may be that you plug in an usb stick and maybe it does not mount automatically or by the seated user. Or that you can not play sounds. You scratch around, till you find that if instead of "startx" you do "init 5", everything works just fine.
So you can go back and do changes to startx so that those things also work. I know some people do this. Or just "who cares" and use "init 5" for a single session.
And this is not related at all to systemd, so please stop blaming it. Blame it for real things, not wild geese chases. They happen about the same time, perhaps. It is due to Xorg changes, and desktop changes.
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAlRPhqQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VksQCgmRG8DYYkezPWWyZDGfInAdqc PpoAnA/MquG1VX9pM+ga5h6yoQ3o2WXK =VOp7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Ruben Safir composed on 2014-10-28 17:30 (UTC-0400):
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 01:05:59PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
if you suid the "/usr/bin/Xorg" via a single character edit in a single line in the single file /etc/permissions.local, you get it working. Simple! ;-)
No that will NOT work. You have to at least manually chmod the binary for starters and then wing it from there.,
What Carlos wrote did work up until the time SuSEconfig was put to death, since reading that line and acting accordingly was one of its jobs. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/28/2014 06:04 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
What Carlos wrote did work up until the time SuSEconfig was put to death, since reading that line and acting accordingly was one of its jobs.
I see we lack a systemd unit for that, for running 'chkstat --system' at startup. That's a bug, do you think, Crisitian? -- Every organization must be prepared to abandon everything it does to survive in the future. - Peter Drucker -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/28/2014 05:30 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
Thus, if you suid the "/usr/bin/Xorg" via a single character edit in a single line in the single file /etc/permissions.local, you get it working. Simple! ;-)
No that will NOT work. You have to at least manually chmod the binary for starters and then wing it from there.,
I think you don't understand the purpose of the /etc/permissions.local file. Try reading the man page for 'chkstat' . Perhaps your problem is that you've made arbitrary changes - "winging it" - and have messed up many things. This is one reason I favour administration by defining a STATE you want the system to be in. We have the tools to make sure that's consistent and sensible -- chkstat being one. Being able to just arbitrarily run any procedure at any time disrupts the consistency and integrity of the system so things break and misbehave. If Linux is to be a serious contender for the Big machine/Big Business than such arbitrariness and lack of integrity in system administration cannot be allowed. Its OK for home users playing with a non-critical system to hack around and wing things. Note I say 'non-critical'. Once the system becomes, for example, the archive/repository for family photos and the movies of the kids growing up and the last messages from Greatgran before she died, then it too and its backups are critical. -- If you think you can do a thing or that you cannot do a thing, in either case you are right. - Henry Ford -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 02:36:38AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2014-10-28 01:25 (UTC-0500):
Startx is deprecated?
I've been reading that for years. The objection has to do with X requiring root permission to function. That hasn't yet stopped it from working in 12.x or 13.x or Fedora or Mageia, though suid may be prerequisite.
That is a redherring. It should need root access to gain access to terminals and it should be suid. And that is what it should do. No having systemd with SUID root access....that is a HUGE problem.
-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-- So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 http://www.mrbrklyn.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive http://www.coinhangout.com - coins! http://www.brooklyn-living.com Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and and extermination camps, but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/28/2014 05:27 PM, Ruben Safir wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 02:36:38AM -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
David C. Rankin composed on 2014-10-28 01:25 (UTC-0500):
Startx is deprecated?
I've been reading that for years. The objection has to do with X requiring root permission to function. That hasn't yet stopped it from working in 12.x or 13.x or Fedora or Mageia, though suid may be prerequisite.
That is a redherring. It should need root access to gain access to terminals and it should be suid.
And that is what it should do.
No having systemd with SUID root access....that is a HUGE problem.
It is for you because you have created the context where its a problem. Those of us that use XDM (etc...) don't have that problem because X is started by root :-) I've also commented on the relevance of /etc/permissions for setting the appropriate permissions on /usr/bin/X .... I'm beginning to wonder if your antagonism towards systemd has resulted in you breaking something realated to it and that is the source of your problems. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2014 11:05 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-28 03:50, Anton Aylward wrote:
Now if the X won't start it may be for a couple of reasons. You hint at library problems but fail to say what the exact error messages were.
Because he has started to change things all over the place like mad.
+1 -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-10-27 10:59, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
It is very trivial. Just choose the default target to be:
/etc/systemd/system/default.target -> /usr/lib/systemd/system/runlevel3.target
or multi-user.target
You can do it in YaST.
To switch temporarily to graphical mode, you can issue "init 5", or "systemctl start graphical.target".
Will specifying '3' on the kernel command line (in boot console (lilo or grubX)...still boot you into multi-user+ VT-tty console? I.e. when I boot, if I have a problem in the early boot, I use "KNAME S". If it is after early boot but during service bring-up, I use "KNAME 1". (where KNAME = the kernel you want to boot). Do those same hooks stop systemd at the proper location(s)? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Linda Walsh composed on 2014-10-27 22:22 (UTC-0700):
Will specifying '3' on the kernel command line (in boot console (lilo or grubX)...still boot you into multi-user+ VT-tty console?
It has the same net effect in 13.x that it had in 10.2 and prior. Virtual all my non-installation, non-memtest, non-Debian, Grub stanzas going at least as far back as SuSE 9.x have 3 on cmdline, which is how I usually (~90%+) leave it at boot time. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-10-28 06:22, Linda Walsh wrote:
Will specifying '3' on the kernel command line (in boot console (lilo or grubX)...still boot you into multi-user+ VT-tty console
Of course it does. And more. Recently, some one shoot his own foot by accidentally telling yast that the default target was level 6. So the system boots and immediately halts. So you can boot a rescue cd and edit a symlink to point back to target 3 or 5 (yes, those are proper targets in systemd, too). Or, you can just temporarily add a 3 or 5 in grub 1 or 2 during boot, get your own system up, not a rescue image, and then start yast and undo the change. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
On 10/28/2014 01:22 AM, Linda Walsh wrote:
Will specifying '3' on the kernel command line (in boot console (lilo or grubX)...still boot you into multi-user+ VT-tty console?
it works for me with 13.1. it worked for me on 12.3 :-0
I.e. when I boot,
I don't know, Linda. I've modified what happens when you boot in a number of ways by editing the command line, as I've described here. I boot using initrd. I recall you don't. That may make a difference.
if I have a problem in the early boot, I use "KNAME S". If it is after early boot but during service bring-up, I use "KNAME 1". (where KNAME = the kernel you want to boot).
So if KNAME selects the kernel, which in grub2 is done with the menu, then that has noting to do with the runlevel. What does KNAME 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 do? Is this an index into some name table of kernels? Where is that table? I realise you have modified your boot process but this seems very strange.
Do those same hooks stop systemd at the proper location(s)?
I don't know what you mean by "stop". And I don't know what you mean by 'hooks' The docco says the kernel parses the command line and hands such parameters as it doesn't process itself to the init process, so If I, as I described in earlier email, put a "3" in the command line in grub2/editmode then "init 3" gets run. Systemd is smart enough to recognise that and make use of the "runlevel3.target". I think I described to Ruben that path. So I don't know what you mean by "stops". if you mean "stops before bringing up X" then that's the wrong question. That's not how systemd works. X isn't in the target list for a simple multi-user boot. All this is clear in the docco. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2014 05:59 AM, Ruben Safir wrote:
How can I set the system up, (13.1) so that it starts up without X11 and then start it by hand when I need to. I tried to do this but the changes to X11 make it very difficult.
What works for me ... I just swapped my old disk into a new desktop, as I mentioned in a recent post, and I knew ahead of time that X would not work at boot because of a different video chip on the mobo. So I wanted to boot without X11 coming up, get a terminal, log in as root, edit the xorg files and try starting X11 manually. This is what I did. Normal bios boot into grub. F2 and told bios about the new disk etc etc. F10 to save and reboot. Grub2 started and I got the menu. Pressed escape to get into the editor. Moved down to the command line that started up line and just after the 'root=...' I typed in the number 3 surrounded by spaces. I then pressed F10 to save and execute. The system came up in what used to be runlevel 3 and is now, according to systemctl "multi-user.target". I was presented with a login prompt. I logged in as root and did the editing. Since this was multi-user I hot keyed (ctl-alt-f2) to the second vt. I logged in as 'anton' and ran 'xinit'. The screen flashed and flashed and flashed and I was back at the prompt. Buqqer! Ctl-alt_f1 back to root; cd to /var/log and looked at Xorg.0.log. Re edited the xorg files. Back to the 'anton' login and tried again Success. TA-DAH! So there I was with login prompt at each of vt1-vt6 as needed. I can think of two other ways of getting there as well. The first is to simply type "init 3" at the root prompt. The second is to log out of X. The login screen offers the ability to go into terminal mode and kill off the X server. I've tried both these alternatives and both still give me logins on vt1..6 Why did I simply insert "3" and not some magic string for systemd saying "multi-user"? Cos I'm lazy. What can go wrong? I can think of many things that can go wrong, but if you start from the POV of antagonism with systemd then you aren't going to approach the debugging very sensibly. There is in /etc/systemd/system some basics. First see that default.target is a link to /usr/lib/systemd/system/runlevel5.target. That should give you a BIG CLUE. If you look inside that, you'll see that its a unit file that says the multi-user target is a dependency. That needs to come up first. Well whoopee with that! You can also see getty.target.wants/ and in there is the unit for starting the vts. Two important things. Well three actually First: ALWAYS READ THE DOCUMENTATION ! ! ! ! (Maybe that should be "The Zeroth law") Second, you might not have any vts to start. That's a configuration option. See logind.conf(5) for details Third, the unit descriptor has a reference to http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/serial-console.html That's the documentation for the 'getty' stuff. Under the subheading "Virtual Terminals" there is a description of how the virtual terminals are started ... On demand. See also: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt On quite a few other occasions I've brought the system up as 'runlevel 3' and always got the vt1..6. Its quite reliable. -- /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML Mail / \ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Anton Aylward composed on 2014-10-27 22:35 (UTC-0400):
I just swapped my old disk into a new desktop, as I mentioned in a recent post, and I knew ahead of time that X would not work at boot because of a different video chip on the mobo. So I wanted to boot without X11 coming up, get a terminal, log in as root, edit the xorg files and try starting X11 manually.
Not everyone should have to edit X configuration on a disk or motherboard swap. FOSS drivers *usually* work via automagic as long as proprietary driver utilities haven't been applied. That said, I usually have manually configured X, and do such editing as a matter of course, because I do so much cloning and cross-driver testing. Cloning is not much trouble as long as proper response to cloned UUIDs and volume labels and differing device IDs is anticipated and performed, plus Grub reinstallation as necessary. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/27/2014 11:25 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Anton Aylward composed on 2014-10-27 22:35 (UTC-0400):
I just swapped my old disk into a new desktop, as I mentioned in a recent post, and I knew ahead of time that X would not work at boot because of a different video chip on the mobo. So I wanted to boot without X11 coming up, get a terminal, log in as root, edit the xorg files and try starting X11 manually.
Not everyone should have to edit X configuration on a disk or motherboard swap. FOSS drivers *usually* work via automagic as long as proprietary driver utilities haven't been applied.
You are quite correct. However I had the nvida drivers set up ...
That said, I usually have manually configured X, and do such editing as a matter of course, because I do so much cloning and cross-driver testing. Cloning is not much trouble as long as proper response to cloned UUIDs and volume labels and differing device Ids is anticipated and performed, plus Grub reinstallation as necessary.
I had also configured the display option to deal with the fact that my KVM switch was not correctly transmitting EDID information. -- A: Yes. > Q: Are you sure? >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation. >>> Q: Why is top posting frowned upon? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (12)
-
Anton Aylward -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
David C. Rankin -
David Haller -
ellanios82 -
Felix Miata -
Ico Petrov -
Linda Walsh -
Markus Elfring -
Per Jessen -
Ruben Safir