[opensuse] Re: Why Not Fix the Easy Bugs??
David C. Rankin a écrit :
Richard wrote:
Free software is driven by diversity and engagement of individuals. This is supported by the openSUSE Build Service.
there are several interesting things in your post. the build service is not officially supported, it's only a service given to help others to build. openSUSE as a hole can't be responsible for anything in the OBS. but where you are true is that when an user provide a solution (patch), his participation should be given the most interest. How can we ask for help if we don't acknowledge it. however, if the maintainer/packager is not available at the time (can be sick, busy making money, having a baby...) things can be held. So I beg it is really important that *somebody* in the permanent openSUSE team (Novell's or very close to) be in charge of some followup of bugzilla. Let only to see when some people at charge don't answer, see why and report. jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 02:54:00 am jdd wrote:
David C. Rankin a écrit :
Richard wrote:
Free software is driven by diversity and engagement of individuals. This is supported by the openSUSE Build Service.
there are several interesting things in your post.
the build service is not officially supported, it's only a service given to help others to build. openSUSE as a hole can't be responsible for anything in the OBS.
but where you are true is that when an user provide a solution (patch), his participation should be given the most interest. How can we ask for help if we don't acknowledge it.
+1 Unlike David that is fighter for what he deems right, way to many that came in for the first time, expect attention f a s t. If they don't get it they will disappear, so something has to change in the bugzilla workflow to provide immediate attention and feedback. Next, if bug has to go upstream, address of bug tracker, or contact person. It would be easier to setup database that will track project informations on a central server, instead of digging every time in the READMEs.
however, if the maintainer/packager is not available at the time (can be sick, busy making money, having a baby...) things can be held.
If developer that should take care of bug is on vacation and bug is low priority, tell that. Nobody will die from truth.
So I beg it is really important that *somebody* in the permanent openSUSE team (Novell's or very close to) be in charge of some followup of bugzilla. Let only to see when some people at charge don't answer, see why and report.
That should be 3*8 man*hour for around the clock coverage. In real world with 6 hours shifts that would be 5 people and in the volunteer world that would be at least 3 times more. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. a écrit :
So I beg it is really important that *somebody* in the permanent openSUSE team (Novell's or very close to) be in charge of some followup of bugzilla. Let only to see when some people at charge don't answer, see why and report.
That should be 3*8 man*hour for around the clock coverage. In real world with 6 hours shifts that would be 5 people and in the volunteer world that would be at least 3 times more.
not necessary. bug activity can be seen by a script. And this is quality insurance, very important IMHO jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 10:19:41 am jdd wrote:
Rajko M. a écrit :
So I beg it is really important that *somebody* in the permanent openSUSE team (Novell's or very close to) be in charge of some followup of bugzilla. Let only to see when some people at charge don't answer, see why and report.
That should be 3*8 man*hour for around the clock coverage. In real world with 6 hours shifts that would be 5 people and in the volunteer world that would be at least 3 times more.
not necessary. bug activity can be seen by a script. And this is quality insurance, very important IMHO
There is Report functionality in Bugzilla that can list bugs in many different ways, including recently filed. The problem is feedback to user, so that he doesn't feel ignored. For that you need person to see the bug, ask questions or escalate issue. That is what is currently missing. To cover 24/7 operation you have to cover 168 hours a week, or 8736 hours a year. The total time for one employee with 40 h/week is 2080 hours a year, minus holidays, vacation, sick time, family leave, and whatever else people are entitled to. I'll take out only 4 weeks, which gives 1920 hours. This gives 8736/1920=4.55 people needed for the task in paid for environment. With volunteers it must be much higher. With 15 volunteers it means that each has to take some 12 hours a week, or 1.7 a day, on a regular basis only for monitoring bugzilla and answering requests as a first level helper. Add to that team meetings, time to learn new skills, time check/reproduce bugs, and we end up with need for maybe 30 very dedicated helpers only in this area. And, no, scripts can't handle this part. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
I might note also that the available pool of qualified volunteers is relatively small, since they must have general knowledge of most of Linux and its add-on packages, plus deep knowledge of the portions that they are volunteering to manage. There are plenty of Linux _users,_ but not so many experts available. Leslie On Tuesday 14 April 2009 11:15:38 Rajko M. wrote:
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 10:19:41 am jdd wrote:
Rajko M. a écrit :
So I beg it is really important that *somebody* in the permanent openSUSE team (Novell's or very close to) be in charge of some followup of bugzilla. Let only to see when some people at charge don't answer, see why and report.
That should be 3*8 man*hour for around the clock coverage. In real world with 6 hours shifts that would be 5 people and in the volunteer world that would be at least 3 times more.
not necessary. bug activity can be seen by a script. And this is quality insurance, very important IMHO
There is Report functionality in Bugzilla that can list bugs in many different ways, including recently filed. The problem is feedback to user, so that he doesn't feel ignored. For that you need person to see the bug, ask questions or escalate issue. That is what is currently missing.
To cover 24/7 operation you have to cover 168 hours a week, or 8736 hours a year. The total time for one employee with 40 h/week is 2080 hours a year, minus holidays, vacation, sick time, family leave, and whatever else people are entitled to. I'll take out only 4 weeks, which gives 1920 hours. This gives 8736/1920=4.55 people needed for the task in paid for environment.
With volunteers it must be much higher. With 15 volunteers it means that each has to take some 12 hours a week, or 1.7 a day, on a regular basis only for monitoring bugzilla and answering requests as a first level helper. Add to that team meetings, time to learn new skills, time check/reproduce bugs, and we end up with need for maybe 30 very dedicated helpers only in this area.
And, no, scripts can't handle this part.
-- Regards, Rajko
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 14 April 2009 03:16:50 pm J. L. Turriff wrote:
I might note also that the available pool of qualified volunteers is relatively small, since they must have general knowledge of most of Linux and its add-on packages, plus deep knowledge of the portions that they are volunteering to manage. There are plenty of Linux _users,_ but not so many experts available.
Leslie
We have to start with something Leslie. No one was expert of anything at birth (if we don't count crying, eating, and ... ), and after 25 y. many are skilled professionals. It is mere will to do more that makes baby crawl, walk, run, talk. The same is valid for us. In a day, or two, I'll come with new thread that will be summary of few attempts to improve user experience related to software errors and its handling. I'm pretty sure that only few people are needed to work on core components, ie. to setup missing parts of infrastructure that will count more on will and ability to learn, than on skills that one will bring in. If you find time you can check: http://en.opensuse.org/Testing http://en.opensuse.org/Testing_Team and this is my initial attempt: http://en.opensuse.org/BugBusters without much explanation about workflow, what should go in etc. Reading Alberto's proposal on http://en.opensuse.org/Testing_Team it seems that idea of activity that BugBusters should cover is subset of what Testing Team should cover. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (3)
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J. L. Turriff -
jdd -
Rajko M.