Vern, First of all something that doesn't have to do with Linux (sorry everyone). I didn't mean at all that Greenpeace doesn't have a point... since you brought it up, yes, I don't understand sometimes their actions, seeing them rather poetic/ dramatic/ symbolic (like chaining yourself to a gate or a railroad to prevent a nuclear plant to open, or a nuclear waste transport to take place). Even though, the fact that I don't understand such actions does not mean that they aren't justified - it is me, not them. I am truly convinced that the world would be now a much worse place to live in if it weren't for them and people like you to fight for a belief. As for the subject in cause, don't let me think that Linux has a philosophy of its own and who doesn't want to accept it, it's their problem (with direct reference to Ms products' users)... please. It is an open place where who wants to come I believe is welcomed. And from this wonderful mixture (don't you like the expression "heterogeneous perfect"?) resulted and will result something that can transform from now on radically the way people will see computers and software generally. I wish to become more and more famous... not necessarily the OS we're using right now, but the concept of "free software". Imagine a world where free software is as widely spread as it is Windows today... Vern, all of you, please let me believe that Linux was created from love towards free software, freedom of mind and freedom of choice and NOT from hate towards Microsoft or Bill Gates. To finish, if you or anyone else felt offended by any of my words, I ask you to accept my apologies - it wasn't at all in my intent to do so. Thank you. Dan vern wrote:

Oh dear Dan. Not only do i never use MS products but i also make contributions to greenpeace!!

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I just scanned over your comments and I think I more or less agree. There is a verse in the Bible, "arrogance comes before the fall." I personally hope that by in large, Linux users will show themselves to more than a bunch of "hackers' or "save-the-whale" types. I'm all for cheering for the home team, but people will begin to look a lot more seriously as they see those, who use linux, to be serious minded about what Linux can do. First impressions are lasting impressions. I'd personally like to see the efforts of the many Linux developers rewarded by a great reputation. Regards, Bob "Beware the Penguins" Dan Tudor wrote:

I will tell my opinion here too.

I've been in the Windows world for years now, but I've never felt offended by the remarks coming from the Linux world since I've always had a sympathy for Linux and "open"/"free" software, as defined in the GPL. Even though it was, and still is a mystery to me some actions of the Linux "fans": I will give as an example the protest at the Win98 launching. I felt miserable for those who participated at the protest... I understand an opposition towards Microsoft. I don't understand an opposition towards Microsoft products' users. It is the freedom of choice. We are free to choose Linux, if we feel it suits our needs best. It is others' choice to choose Ms if they feel they should. Microsoft indeed has a great marketing department. None stops SuSE or RedHat from having one too. We should fight with the weapons provided by ration and logic and not be misled by our feelings. I strongly believe that offending people who use Ms products is not the way of drawing their attention to Linux. If anything, Linux needs enthusiasts and not fanatics. I had a fight with myself until deciding not long ago to finally switch on Linux. Why was it so difficult? (it took me more than an year to decide, while I tried several versions of RedHat - from 4.2 to 5.2) Because it was (now it's estompating/vanishing) a perception of the "old" UNIX users: the command line (prompt) is always the best. Remember, please that GUI is not a Ms invention, but a Rank Xerox one in early 70'ies and it was developed by Apple. Ms just took something it was already discovered. And all the UNIX fans said that "graphical gadgets" that loads the system useless can't be but a bad thing. And I believe that we must make a difference bewteen increase in productivity and comfort in use, added to a ease to learn (not all people want/need to know the inner structure of an operating system) and some graphical gadgets (that Windows I admit has). Right now Linux I think is ready to go in the front line - the KDE graphical environment is the first one I like more than Windows interface. And in plus, Linux has the enormous advantage of letting anyone interested to tweak around as much as he/she desires, unlike Windows. And again, in plus, it has all the advantages of the UNIX OS inheritance, with all the stability, reliability and performance that comes from here. All that still needs to be changed is our attitude. The "save the whales"/"greenpeace" attitude, with fanatic actions, a reminiscence of the times when Linux didn't have a chance against commercial OS's (like Windows) MUST be changed with a more rational, logical and deep attitude. We must replace the desperation of the losers (please remember the protests i mentioned about in the beginning) with the calm and serenity of the winners.

Thank you for taking the time of reading my opinion. Dan

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Dan Tudor wrote: <rm>

comes from here. All that still needs to be changed is our attitude. The "save the whales"/"greenpeace" attitude, with fanatic actions, a reminiscence of the times when Linux didn't have a chance against commercial OS's (like Windows) MUST be changed with a more rational, logical and deep attitude. We must replace the desperation of the losers (please remember the protests i mentioned about in the beginning) with the calm and serenity of the winners.

I mostly agree. Linux has really already "won" in a sense, because there will always be people interested in continuing development for it, and therefore Linux itself will continue. There is no business to go out of business with linux. I don't believe that we need to change our attitudes, or more specifically, our philosophies to allow Linux to have success in the corporate world. I am a very strong believer in the Free Software Foundation, GNU and the GPL. I literally do believe all software should be free. I am realistic about it, but my philosophy is in tact. If I were only concerned about using the very best workstation operating system available for my workstation needs, then I would be using the BeOS and developing more for it (as I should be :-)) I do use Be, but it is not my primary OS. Linux is, and as time goes on, I shy further and further away from using proprietary software, not necessarily because it is inferior, but because it speaks of greed. -- lunaslide * PGP key->pgpkeys.mit.edu port 11371 * * * * * * Yep. I have a very active imagination; it's been a personal condition of mine for years now. * -Bruce Sterling * * * * * -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e Check out the SuSE-FAQ at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A">http://www.suse.com/Support/Doku/FAQ/</A</A>> and the archive at <A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html"><A HREF="http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A">http://www.suse.com/Mailinglists/suse-linux-e/index.html</A</A>>