RE: [SLE] Suse linux review

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RE: [SLE] Help with dumb newbie...

Vaessen, E.M.J. (Ed)

14 Nov 2002 14 Nov '02

09:01

I agree. After no more than a few days I encountered lots of irritating problems that give the impression that the SuSE boys have not really tested their product: the system suddenly forgetting that it must process rpm-files with YaST, CD-eject commands sometimes working and sometimes not, applications in the menus that start when clicked on and then stop, the NVIDIA kernel drivers suddenly being forgotten (a miracle: the system had jumped from version 3123 back to version 2960), file download transfer stopping halfway, printing jobs stopping halfway and thereby blocking the printer and lots more. I have so far purchased SuSE7.1, 7.3, 8.0 and these behaved much better. What does Mandrake cost and how complete is it compared to SuSE 8.1 Professional?

...

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: fd df [mailto:ehlvest2002@yahoo.com] Verzonden: woensdag 13 november 2002 19:25 Aan: suse-linux-e@suse.com Onderwerp: [SLE] Suse linux review

Suse 8.1 is buggy and is a big waste of my time and money. The people at Suse really know how to waste your time with bugs. They don't pay respect to the customer. They expect us to do QA for Suse. Suse 8.0 has problems with OHCI for me. In Suse 8.1, the external CD-ROM does not work and there are a lot more problems... I understand that many may not have the same problems that I am facing, however why not make something bug-free? Suse does not release ISO's to make more money (their FTP installation is very slow). Yet their product is not worth what they charge.

I recommend trying Mandrake 9.0 for those who are sick and tired of Suse's problems. I had no problems whatsoever with Mandrake.

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DJ

14 Nov 14 Nov

18:07

New subject: [SLE] Suse linux review

VEMJE> printer and lots more. I have so far purchased SuSE7.1, 7.3, 8.0 and these VEMJE> behaved much better. VEMJE> What does Mandrake cost and how complete is it compared to SuSE 8.1 VEMJE> Professional? I like the two links below, the first one especially, when looking at Linux Distributions. I've come to the conclusion there is some sort of strange worldly law that says if you read good reviews regarding a specific release of a Linux distribution and then switch to that distribution, the next releases will not be as good as the previous ones :-) http://www.distrowatch.com/index.php http://www.linuxiso.org/ We had Slackware, but when Walnut Creek was bought for its BSD and the future of Slackware was questionable at that time, we switched. I think the price is fair and reasonable for SuSE. I wish there was an option to purchase just the CD's without the hard copy manuals --- save a few trees, mailing expense, etc. The distribution, in general, saves us time and money. I've learned that support is lacking (or more like it is no worse than a lot vendors --- it doesn't distinguish SuSE from the pack) for us smaller folks, but we're learning the eccentricities of SuSE slowly but surely and we want SuSE to succeed. They succeed, we succeed, and visa versa. I would like to see SuSE improve their online support. I think a lot of problems could be solved a lot faster, making customers much happier, if it were designed better. SuSE's web site is probably last on their to-do list, but I think SuSE would get a BIG payoff from the improvements. Nothing like happy customers to sell your product or service. If your hardware is supported and everything you want to do is supported by Yast, and the Yast database doesn't become corrupted, SuSE gets a 100. But if any of the above occur, then it becomes a little (or a lot) more difficult. But I don't think this is much different than any other distribution (or Windows). When you are taught or know what you are doing, things just seem easier ;-) When you have automated tools (black box) like Yast, and you start to depend on them without learning what needs to be done underneath, the problems become worse. We find ourselves fighting SuSE automation (i.e., Where does SuSE leave off and we must begin with an application installation, will SuSE let us know if it has changed a configuration file, what/where are specific SuSE tools, and which system/application files is SuSE currently using or gotten rid of) but I think 8.1 Professional has gotten much better. We've had the same machines since 7.1 which is where we started. We couldn't get 7.2 installed/updated and support couldn't help, so we decided to stay on 7.1. We could no longer use SuSE YOU and just decided to "freeze" our systems as is for the time being. Then we jumped in again for 8.1 and did a fresh install. Two minor bumps (i.e., 2930 SCSI controller card and wrong monitor detected), but otherwise so far so good and definitely an improvement. -- __________________________ DJ mailto: linux_programmer@hotmail.com

Tom Emerson

18:47

New subject: [SLE] Suse linux review

On Thursday 14 November 2002 10:07, DJ wrote: [...]

...

I think the price is fair and reasonable for SuSE. I wish there was an option to purchase just the CD's without the hard copy manuals --- save a few trees, mailing expense, etc.

Actually, they do -- they call it the "upgrade" version -- unfortunately, it appears it is only available "directly from them" [tho I've heard that some European stores have the "upgrade" on shelves] It also takes a bit of digging (sometimes) to find it on their web/store site. Note that you don't actually have to be "upgrading" to get this price -- you get the full set of the "professional" version CD/DVD's and only one "basic" installation manual -- you forgo the additional manuals and any stuffed geckos, bumper stickers, case plates, or whatever other marketing fluff they've added to the "full" product. The price is typically $49 for the upgrade -- just $10 more than the full "standard" distribution (and $30 less than the full "professional" version)

Karol Pietrzak

20:15

New subject: [SLE] Suse linux review

I wasn't sure whether it was possible to do a "clean install" using the Upgrade Version, so I asked SuSE. Here was the reply: -- The SuSE Linux 8.1 Professional Update version can only be used to update a system currently running SuSE Linux (8.0 recommended, though older versions can also be updated). You will not be able to install a system from scratch if you purchase the 'Update' version of our software. -- Just like the original poster, I wanted _just_ the CDs/DVD; no books or anything. BUT, unless SuSE lied to me, you cannot do a clean install using the Upgrade version. So, you do _not_ "get the full set of the "professional" version CD/DVD's", as you state. On Thursday 14 November 2002 13:47, Tom Emerson wrote:

...

Note that you don't actually have to be "upgrading" to get this price -- you get the full set of the "professional" version CD/DVD's and only one "basic" installation manual -- you forgo the additional manuals and any stuffed geckos, bumper stickers, case plates, or whatever other marketing fluff they've added to the "full" product.

-- Karol Pietrzak PGP KeyID: 3A1446A0

Ahbaid Gaffoor

20:18

New subject: [SLE] Suse linux review

Actually, you do get the full version... I bought the upgrade version off of their site.... It came with all the CD's and the DVD. Plus I did a fresh install. Karol Pietrzak wrote:

...

I wasn't sure whether it was possible to do a "clean install" using the Upgrade Version, so I asked SuSE. Here was the reply:

-- The SuSE Linux 8.1 Professional Update version can only be used to update a system currently running SuSE Linux (8.0 recommended, though older versions can also be updated). You will not be able to install a system from scratch if you purchase the 'Update' version of our software. --

Just like the original poster, I wanted _just_ the CDs/DVD; no books or anything. BUT, unless SuSE lied to me, you cannot do a clean install using the Upgrade version. So, you do _not_ "get the full set of the "professional" version CD/DVD's", as you state.

On Thursday 14 November 2002 13:47, Tom Emerson wrote:

...
Note that you don't actually have to be "upgrading" to get this price -- you get the full set of the "professional" version CD/DVD's and only one "basic" installation manual -- you forgo the additional manuals and any stuffed geckos, bumper stickers, case plates, or whatever other marketing fluff they've added to the "full" product.

-- Ahbaid Gaffoor Database Administrator - Oracle Certified Professional ------------------------------------------------------------------- Wrk:972-404-8100x14 Cell:469-323-9420 Pgr:214-248-6322 ICQ:67367930 Pager email: pageahbaid@placemark.com/2142486322@airmessage.net

Marshall Heartley

20:26

New subject: [SLE] Suse linux review

On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 15:15, Karol Pietrzak wrote:

...

The SuSE Linux 8.1 Professional Update version can only be used to update a system currently running SuSE Linux (8.0 recommended, though older versions can also be updated). You will not be able to install a system from scratch if you purchase the 'Update' version of our software. --

Just like the original poster, I wanted _just_ the CDs/DVD; no books or anything. BUT, unless SuSE lied to me, you cannot do a clean install using the Upgrade version. So, you do _not_ "get the full set of the "professional" version CD/DVD's", as you state.

I was able to do a clean install with the update CD'S. No problem Marshall "Nothing is impossible, We just do not have all the anwsers to make the impossible, possible"

DJ

22:34

New subject: [SLE] Suse linux review

KP> I wasn't sure whether it was possible to do a "clean install" using the KP> Upgrade Version, so I asked SuSE. Here was the reply: KP> -- KP> The SuSE Linux 8.1 Professional Update version can only be used to KP> update a system currently running SuSE Linux (8.0 recommended, though KP> older versions can also be updated). You will not be able to install a KP> system from scratch if you purchase the 'Update' version of our KP> software. KP> -- Interesting. I was told that the only difference between SuSE Linux 8.1 Profession and SuSE Linix 8.1 Profession Update were the lack of manuals --- otherwise they are the same. I was reminded of this earlier, too. I found the following at the SuSE store, which also indicates you can do an install from scratch. snippet: --------------------------------------------------------------------- "This product is only recomended for users of SuSE 8.0 products. Upgrading from older versions is possible but not guaranteed, in which case you can install 8.1 from scratch." --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://store.suse.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?xid=40017&SP=10023&PN=1&V1=437746&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=61326 Steps to get to above link: Went to: www.suse.com Clicked on: "suse online store" in upper left-hand corner Clicked on: "suse linux products", top item in list on left Clicked on: "SuSE Linux 8.1 Professional Update: -- __________________________ DJ mailto: linux_programmer@hotmail.com

Karol Pietrzak

22:51

New subject: [SLE] Suse linux review

Thanks. I definitely did check the SuSE Store 8.1 Upgrade description. I remember reading the part you quote, but -without- the part "from scratch". Why else would I go through the trouble of emailing SuSE? Anyway, thanks DJ. I still need to have a little talk with that SuSE representative though... On Thursday 14 November 2002 17:34, DJ wrote:

...

Interesting. I was told that the only difference between SuSE Linux 8.1 Profession and SuSE Linix 8.1 Profession Update were the lack of manuals --- otherwise they are the same. I was reminded of this earlier, too.

I found the following at the SuSE store, which also indicates you can do an install from scratch.

snippet: --------------------------------------------------------------------- "This product is only recomended for users of SuSE 8.0 products. Upgrading from older versions is possible but not guaranteed, in which case you can install 8.1 from scratch." --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://store.suse.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?xid=40017&SP=10023&PN=1&V 1=437746&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=61326

-- Karol Pietrzak PGP KeyID: 3A1446A0

Tom Emerson

15 Nov 15 Nov

00:22

New subject: [SLE] Suse linux review

On Thursday 14 November 2002 14:51, Karol Pietrzak wrote:

...

Thanks. I definitely did check the SuSE Store 8.1 Upgrade description. I remember reading the part you quote, but -without- the part "from scratch". Why else would I go through the trouble of emailing SuSE?

Anyway, thanks DJ. I still need to have a little talk with that SuSE representative though...

I wouldn't be too harsh on him (or her) I suspect "marketing" is rearing it's ugly head [or perhaps the rep came from a non-linux background where "upgrades" universally imply "you have to own the prior version first..."]

Matthew Johnson

00:23

New subject: [SLE] Suse linux review

You can do an install from scratch, because well...I have (actually an NFS install when NFS was working, but recently changed over to vsftp). Always thought the update version was available to previous owners of SuSE. I still did do an install from scratch though. Matt On Thu, 2002-11-14 at 14:51, Karol Pietrzak wrote:

...

Thanks. I definitely did check the SuSE Store 8.1 Upgrade description. I remember reading the part you quote, but -without- the part "from scratch". Why else would I go through the trouble of emailing SuSE?

Anyway, thanks DJ. I still need to have a little talk with that SuSE representative though...

On Thursday 14 November 2002 17:34, DJ wrote:

...
Interesting. I was told that the only difference between SuSE Linux 8.1 Profession and SuSE Linix 8.1 Profession Update were the lack of manuals --- otherwise they are the same. I was reminded of this earlier, too.

I found the following at the SuSE store, which also indicates you can do an install from scratch.

snippet: --------------------------------------------------------------------- "This product is only recomended for users of SuSE 8.0 products. Upgrading from older versions is possible but not guaranteed, in which case you can install 8.1 from scratch." --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://store.suse.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?xid=40017&SP=10023&PN=1&V 1=437746&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=61326

-- Karol Pietrzak PGP KeyID: 3A1446A0 -- Matthew Johnson

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Ahbaid Gaffoor
DJ
Karol Pietrzak
Marshall Heartley
Matthew Johnson
Tom Emerson
Vaessen, E.M.J. (Ed)