[opensuse] Accessibility questions
Is there a forum where I can participate in discussions on accessibility issues for people with disabilities? I've been using Suse since 9.3 and now I'm on 10.3. Sadly, accessibility for visually impaired people like me has gone down hill since 9.3. I'd like to get involved somehow and offer my feedback. Thanks, -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 11:59 -0500, suseROCKS wrote:
Is there a forum where I can participate in discussions on accessibility issues for people with disabilities? I've been using Suse since 9.3 and now I'm on 10.3. Sadly, accessibility for visually impaired people like me has gone down hill since 9.3. I'd like to get involved somehow and offer my feedback.
If you are using GNOME, you can join opensuse-gnome@gnome.org for now.
We are aware of at least one serious problem with a11y support, but
frankly we don't have a lot of expertise in what the behavior is
supposed to be in various cases so any information you can provide would
be great. I did spend some time with the accessbility team at the GNOME
summit this past weekend trying to get a better understanding of how
everything works.
The bug is:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=332498
-JP
--
JP Rosevear
Thanks, I'll check them out. Yes I am using Gnome, but not sure what ally is. I don't currently use any special devices. For me its more of a screen resolution issue. Things simply don't work well under 800x600 resolution, like Evolution, and there's so much tinkering I have to do with fonts all over the place when I leave it at 1024x768. Not my desired resolution. There needs to be some sort of standardization so that when we switch screen resolutions we don't lose application functionality. Fortunately, I can see enough that I can squint my eyes and hunch real close to the screen to find the settings currently under tiny fonts and then change them. For others, this would be a serious problem. I reported a bug earlier today to Novell about Evolution. But I suspect I'm going to find more as I progress this week. I had briefly installed OpenSuse 10.2 a couple of months ago. A few days later I ran into a Suse engineer to show him how badly things were appearing when I tried to make any changes. He immediately said this was a bug that was going to be fixed in 10.3 and in the meantime recommended I go with SLED 10.1 instead. 10.1 did seem to be much better and the problems we faced that day were gone. Apparently, though, it didn't get completely fixed in time for 10.3. Any chance I can get an OpenSuse-labeled back massager for my frequent hunching? ;-) Bryen On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 13:57 -0400, JP Rosevear wrote:
On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 11:59 -0500, suseROCKS wrote:
Is there a forum where I can participate in discussions on accessibility issues for people with disabilities? I've been using Suse since 9.3 and now I'm on 10.3. Sadly, accessibility for visually impaired people like me has gone down hill since 9.3. I'd like to get involved somehow and offer my feedback.
If you are using GNOME, you can join opensuse-gnome@gnome.org for now. We are aware of at least one serious problem with a11y support, but frankly we don't have a lot of expertise in what the behavior is supposed to be in various cases so any information you can provide would be great. I did spend some time with the accessbility team at the GNOME summit this past weekend trying to get a better understanding of how everything works.
The bug is: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=332498
-JP
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Wednesday 2007-10-10 at 13:15 -0500, suseROCKS wrote:
Thanks, I'll check them out. Yes I am using Gnome, but not sure what ally is. I don't currently use any special devices. For me its more of a screen resolution issue. Things simply don't work well under 800x600 resolution, like Evolution, and there's so much tinkering I have to do with fonts all over the place when I leave it at 1024x768. Not my desired resolution.
In my ignorance, I have a question: wouldn't it better for you a larger resolution on a big, flat monitor, and then telling the system to use big fonts, or big everything, somehow? I know that an 800x600 resolution yields big fonts and windows, simply because the programs seem to use the same number of pixels, and they overflow the available space, sometimes without a slider to display everything; but wouldn't it be better a bigger display? Perhaps the problem is that big enough displays are too expensive. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFHDZE/tTMYHG2NR9URAns4AKCOgxm9Pr8iag1SJkcjyr3oxxYAMQCgkVgW /5t2cFYkHiqw5exwPh5G4EY= =I/ZQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The Wednesday 2007-10-10 at 13:15 -0500, suseROCKS wrote:
Thanks, I'll check them out. Yes I am using Gnome, but not sure what ally is.
a11y (not ally) is geek-speak for accessibility, like i18n is geek-speak for internationalization. (Hint: count the letters :)
I don't currently use any special devices. For me its more of a screen resolution issue. Things simply don't work well under 800x600 resolution, like Evolution, and there's so much tinkering I have to do with fonts all over the place when I leave it at 1024x768. Not my desired resolution.
In my ignorance, I have a question: wouldn't it better for you a larger resolution on a big, flat monitor, and then telling the system to use big fonts, or big everything, somehow?
I know that an 800x600 resolution yields big fonts and windows, simply because the programs seem to use the same number of pixels, and they overflow the available space, sometimes without a slider to display everything; but wouldn't it be better a bigger display? Perhaps the problem is that big enough displays are too expensive.
Bigger monitors are better of course but there are limits, especially on laptops. And setting the virtual screen resolution larger than the physical screen resolution so that you can pan around to see different parts of the screen can be useful in some circumstances. But adjusting font size is usually the most important technique. Carlos, you're correct that setting the screen to its full native resolution and then choosing appropriate font sizes is the way to get the best quality results. Sadly, it's a total pain in GNU/Linux. What the user wants is a single 'knob' or 'slider' that increases the size of all the fonts on the screen smoothly. Assuming the apps/graphics designers made sensible choices for relative sizes with their good eyesight, everything should scale reasonably well. But the current user experience is that there are multiple places where font sizes have to be adjusted, some just for individual applications, and some applications have no means to adjust some of the fonts. It's a real mess and has been so for far too long. Setting a lower screen resolution is a simple way of sidestepping all those problems and getting a usable display. But application and content designers are increasingly assuming higher minimum resolutions - often without any real need. They appear to think it's cool. Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Dave Howorth wrote:
a11y (not ally) is geek-speak for accessibility, like i18n is geek-speak for internationalization. (Hint: count the letters :)
I didn't know a11y, but I have never heard i18n (and l10n) being referred to as 'geek-speak'. The wikipedia page on i18n doesn't even mention it. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- http://www.spamchek.com/ - your spam is our business. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2007-10-11 at 10:12 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
a11y (not ally) is geek-speak for accessibility, like i18n is geek-speak for internationalization. (Hint: count the letters :)
I didn't know. IMO, a11y instead of accessibility is a non accesible acronym, as the user with vision dificulties will probably not spot the "ones" - that's what happened to the OP, I think. >:-)
Bigger monitors are better of course but there are limits, especially on laptops. And setting the virtual screen resolution larger than the physical screen resolution so that you can pan around to see different parts of the screen can be useful in some circumstances. But adjusting font size is usually the most important technique.
Carlos, you're correct that setting the screen to its full native resolution and then choosing appropriate font sizes is the way to get the best quality results. Sadly, it's a total pain in GNU/Linux.
Windows have a quick setting to choose large/small fonts. That would be nice. My current display is 1024*768, but when using larger resolutions the fonts display smaller, instead of the same size. A setting to make them larger would be nice.
What the user wants is a single 'knob' or 'slider' that increases the size of all the fonts on the screen smoothly. Assuming the apps/graphics designers made sensible choices for relative sizes with their good eyesight, everything should scale reasonably well.
Not only the fonts, but everything, I think. Enlarge everything, like a magnifying glass applied to all the screen.
Setting a lower screen resolution is a simple way of sidestepping all those problems and getting a usable display. But application and content designers are increasingly assuming higher minimum resolutions - often without any real need. They appear to think it's cool.
True. There are some apps that are difficult to run at "only" 1024*768, the dialogs are bigger than available space, and they are simply clipped. Once I could not even see the buttons at the bottom. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD4DBQFHDjUotTMYHG2NR9URAh8AAJ9bUTeOPE/rC95xyYqeXaaRRv9cOACYq/Ma kIR53cdw8B9036pQImsstw== =bW60 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 16:37 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Thursday 2007-10-11 at 10:12 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
a11y (not ally) is geek-speak for accessibility, like i18n is geek-speak for internationalization. (Hint: count the letters :)
I didn't know. IMO, a11y instead of accessibility is a non accesible acronym, as the user with vision dificulties will probably not spot the "ones" - that's what happened to the OP, I think. >:-)
That's correct. When he said "a11y (not ally)" I still only saw "L's" and wondered what the heck he was critiquing, then when Carlos said "ones" I realized the difference. :-)
Bigger monitors are better of course but there are limits, especially on laptops. And setting the virtual screen resolution larger than the physical screen resolution so that you can pan around to see different parts of the screen can be useful in some circumstances. But adjusting font size is usually the most important technique.
Bigger monitors, unfortunately, aren't always better. It was a long time before I gave in to 19" monitors from 17" monitors. One of the most common forms of blindness or visual impairment is Retintis Pigmentosa. You may know this more as "tunnel vision." This means we have a limited range of vision. In my case, I have less than 20 degrees of vision versus the normal 90 degrees of a normal sighted person. The larger the screen, the more I have to scan (move my head) to find things. As an example, one trick I use for finding my mouse pointer is to focus on the upper left corner of the screen and then keep dragging my mouse until the pointer comes into focus. Then I can follow my pointer to the location I want to use it. Years ago, back in Windows 3.1 days, there was an add-on that allowed me to quickly move my mouse pointer to the center of the screen by clicking a set of hotkeys. Never saw it again after Win95 came around. :-( Would be great if someone could create something like that again for Suse. :-)
Carlos, you're correct that setting the screen to its full native resolution and then choosing appropriate font sizes is the way to get the best quality results. Sadly, it's a total pain in GNU/Linux.
It IS a pain. :-) I've been working at it for two days now. And if you have trouble seeing and have to go to so many places to adjust settings, that's a real problem. Then again, to give some praise, the level of flexibility is great. For example, I've created a second panel with all my favorite apps. I like that I can then explicitly change the background color of the panel to give some contrast between it and the icons. Resizing the panel also expands the size of the icons to a comportable level. Unfortunately, there appears to be no way to also increase the size of text in the panels. (Except of course, to switch to 800x600 resolution.)
Windows have a quick setting to choose large/small fonts. That would be nice. My current display is 1024*768, but when using larger resolutions the fonts display smaller, instead of the same size. A setting to make them larger would be nice.
I'll admit that yes it is true, Windows does do a better job of overall display in 800x600. But since 800x600 seems to prevent functionality in some apps, I'm learning to stick with 1024x768 and find ways to customize in specific areas. But, like we're saying here, it IS a chore. :-)
What the user wants is a single 'knob' or 'slider' that increases the size of all the fonts on the screen smoothly. Assuming the apps/graphics designers made sensible choices for relative sizes with their good eyesight, everything should scale reasonably well.
Not only the fonts, but everything, I think. Enlarge everything, like a magnifying glass applied to all the screen.
Exactly.
Setting a lower screen resolution is a simple way of sidestepping all those problems and getting a usable display. But application and content designers are increasingly assuming higher minimum resolutions - often without any real need. They appear to think it's cool.
True.
I get a bit overly emotional when that happens. It seems that it is happening more and more across the board (regardless of operating system) at a real expense to certain users. Evolution for example, you can't resize panels in 800x600. :-( I didn't have this problem in Suse Pro 9.3. Websites are also causing problems these days. Seems like everyone wants to go for the cool factor, which today is white background with grey fonts. More and more visually-impaired people are complaining about this. But I'm going off-point here a bit.
There are some apps that are difficult to run at "only" 1024*768, the dialogs are bigger than available space, and they are simply clipped. Once I could not even see the buttons at the bottom.
Again, referring to Evolution. I couldn't resize the panels once I switched to 800x600. Fortunately, email is not an everyday part of most people's lives. :-) I may have sounded a bit critical, and in some ways I am, but I also think there's an opportunity for real discussion. And I'd love to participate in anything that takes a closer look at this. Out of curiosity, if we get into discussion on this in more detail, am I allowed to attach screen captures for examples? Thanks for everyone's responses here. I'm actually quite heartened to see this much interest in this topic. Bryen
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
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On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 00:08 -0500, suseROCKS wrote:
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 16:37 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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The Thursday 2007-10-11 at 10:12 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
a11y (not ally) is geek-speak for accessibility, like i18n is geek-speak for internationalization. (Hint: count the letters :)
I didn't know. IMO, a11y instead of accessibility is a non accesible acronym, as the user with vision dificulties will probably not spot the "ones" - that's what happened to the OP, I think. >:-)
That's correct. When he said "a11y (not ally)" I still only saw "L's" and wondered what the heck he was critiquing, then when Carlos said "ones" I realized the difference. :-)
Please accept my apologies. I thought that saying "a11y (not ally)" would prompt you to check exactly what I'd written. If you can't see the difference even when looking carefully, are you aware of the xmag application? BTW, I agree with everybody that it's a really naff acronym.
As an example, one trick I use for finding my mouse pointer is to focus on the upper left corner of the screen and then keep dragging my mouse until the pointer comes into focus. Then I can follow my pointer to the location I want to use it.
As an alternative, are you aware of the xeyes application? It gives you a small window at a specific position on the screen that indicates approximately where the mouse is. You might find it helpful. IMHO, even better could be one or two simple pointers in the corners of the screen. If such a thing doesn't exist, it could easily be made.
Years ago, back in Windows 3.1 days, there was an add-on that allowed me to quickly move my mouse pointer to the center of the screen by clicking a set of hotkeys. Never saw it again after Win95 came around. :-( Would be great if someone could create something like that again for Suse. :-)
I don't know whether it is possible to use a program to move the mouse in X11. I haven't found any API yet. Does anybody happen to know? If the facility exists, it will be easy to write an application to do this. It's probably worth checking on an accessibility-related list like the gnome one to see if it already exists.
Websites are also causing problems these days. Seems like everyone wants to go for the cool factor, which today is white background with grey fonts. More and more visually-impaired people are complaining about this. But I'm going off-point here a bit.
It needs the governments to actually prosecute some prominent site for violating the accessibility laws! Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 13:02 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 00:08 -0500, suseROCKS wrote:
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 16:37 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
The Thursday 2007-10-11 at 10:12 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
a11y (not ally) is geek-speak for accessibility, like i18n is geek-speak for internationalization. (Hint: count the letters :)
I didn't know. IMO, a11y instead of accessibility is a non accesible acronym, as the user with vision dificulties will probably not spot the "ones" - that's what happened to the OP, I think. >:-)
That's correct. When he said "a11y (not ally)" I still only saw "L's" and wondered what the heck he was critiquing, then when Carlos said "ones" I realized the difference. :-)
Please accept my apologies. I thought that saying "a11y (not ally)" would prompt you to check exactly what I'd written. If you can't see the difference even when looking carefully, are you aware of the xmag application? BTW, I agree with everybody that it's a really naff acronym.
I'm trying to avoid having to use additional tools while I can. All of these things take up valuable real estate on our screens. :-)
As an example, one trick I use for finding my mouse pointer is to focus on the upper left corner of the screen and then keep dragging my mouse until the pointer comes into focus. Then I can follow my pointer to the location I want to use it.
As an alternative, are you aware of the xeyes application? It gives you a small window at a specific position on the screen that indicates approximately where the mouse is. You might find it helpful. IMHO, even better could be one or two simple pointers in the corners of the screen. If such a thing doesn't exist, it could easily be made.
Xeyes is cute, but only tells you the general direction where the pointer is. Not the exact location. Also, if you run it stand alone, it gets lost behind other windows and thus useless almost immediately. And if you run it as an applet, it takes up valuable real estate on the panel, plus becomes even less useful because it has a larger "general area" to point you to.
Years ago, back in Windows 3.1 days, there was an add-on that allowed me to quickly move my mouse pointer to the center of the screen by clicking a set of hotkeys. Never saw it again after Win95 came around. :-( Would be great if someone could create something like that again for Suse. :-)
I don't know whether it is possible to use a program to move the mouse in X11. I haven't found any API yet. Does anybody happen to know? If the facility exists, it will be easy to write an application to do this. It's probably worth checking on an accessibility-related list like the gnome one to see if it already exists.
In 9.3, if you hit the ctrl button alone a square box would quickly zoom in to the mouse pointer. It was based on some setting somewhere, I forget where. But it was useless because you had to be looking at the pointer to see the momentary zoom box. LOL. But obviously something along these lines has already been done and could be expanded upon here.
Websites are also causing problems these days. Seems like everyone wants to go for the cool factor, which today is white background with grey fonts. More and more visually-impaired people are complaining about this. But I'm going off-point here a bit.
It needs the governments to actually prosecute some prominent site for violating the accessibility laws!
I disagree. I'm feeling far better results already just sitting here talking about this. Too often, I see developers complain about being forced by governments to do this and that for accessibility reasons. Oftentimes, the reason they complain is because they never see the affected people to begin with. My participation here, as well as others, and getting a dialogue going in a more open fashion is probably far more beneficial to the developers than any court decree. I am certain that developers watching this are far more appreciative of the issues than if we weren't talking about it here. Education and exposure is the key, not litigation. (Unless even after you educate and expose and they refuse to comply. :-) )
Cheers, Dave
And thanks for your feedback Dave. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Friday 2007-10-12 at 00:08 -0500, suseROCKS wrote:
Bigger monitors are better of course but there are limits, especially on laptops. And setting the virtual screen resolution larger than the physical screen resolution so that you can pan around to see different parts of the screen can be useful in some circumstances. But adjusting font size is usually the most important technique.
Bigger monitors, unfortunately, aren't always better. It was a long time before I gave in to 19" monitors from 17" monitors. One of the most common forms of blindness or visual impairment is Retintis Pigmentosa. You may know this more as "tunnel vision." This means we have a limited range of vision. In my case, I have less than 20 degrees of vision versus the normal 90 degrees of a normal sighted person. The larger the screen, the more I have to scan (move my head) to find things.
AHHH! I understand.
As an example, one trick I use for finding my mouse pointer is to focus on the upper left corner of the screen and then keep dragging my mouse until the pointer comes into focus. Then I can follow my pointer to the location I want to use it.
Years ago, back in Windows 3.1 days, there was an add-on that allowed me to quickly move my mouse pointer to the center of the screen by clicking a set of hotkeys. Never saw it again after Win95 came around. :-( Would be great if someone could create something like that again for Suse. :-)
There was another effect available in windows that was to have the mouse pointer leave a trail behind that dissapeared in a few seconds. Moving it fast left a long trail in the screen making it easier to find the pointer.
Carlos, you're correct that setting the screen to its full native resolution and then choosing appropriate font sizes is the way to get the best quality results. Sadly, it's a total pain in GNU/Linux.
It IS a pain. :-) I've been working at it for two days now. And if you have trouble seeing and have to go to so many places to adjust settings, that's a real problem.
Then again, to give some praise, the level of flexibility is great. For example, I've created a second panel with all my favorite apps. I like that I can then explicitly change the background color of the panel to give some contrast between it and the icons. Resizing the panel also expands the size of the icons to a comportable level. Unfortunately, there appears to be no way to also increase the size of text in the panels. (Except of course, to switch to 800x600 resolution.)
I suppose you know that you can be at 1024*7680 and hit [Ctrl][Alt][-] to swith to a lower resolution and back?
Not only the fonts, but everything, I think. Enlarge everything, like a magnifying glass applied to all the screen.
Exactly.
This conversation has pushed me to have a look at the gnome control panel and try things. There is some thing named "Orca Screen Reader and Magnifier". The configuration is a terminal window that also speaks out the sentences, and then tells you to restart the session. I'm trying it now. [...] I don't see any change :-( Supossedly I would have a magnifier, but I don't see how to enable it. If I restart the control applet, it asks me choices again by voice, but the window where to type the answers does not appears. Seems to be it's bugy. Mmm... there is another applet, "assistive technology preferences". Maybe it's that one. I'll try, I have to re-log again. [...] Still I have no idea how to activate the magnifier :-( If I click on "help" in the control panel, I get a mozilla window pointing to http://localhost/susehelp/cgi-bin/showdir.cgi?lang=en&depth=1&cgiprefix=/susehelp/cgi-bin/&fileprefix=&header=1 which doesn't help at all, as it is not opened on the exact context I'm asking for help about: it is open at the overall suse index. This is broken. Ok, the help is here: http://localhost/usr/share/doc/manual/opensuse-gnomeuser_en/manual/bssddk6.h... where there is a photo of the dialog I just used, quite unreadeable (and I have perfect sight! - just a bit of fever), and absolutely no help or hint on how to activate the magnifier or anything at all. Oh my... If I have those dificulties setting this thing up, I can imagine how dificult it must be for you... There are some settings to adjust the mouse, to, like one to make it blink on certain key.
True.
I get a bit overly emotional when that happens. It seems that it is happening more and more across the board (regardless of operating system) at a real expense to certain users. Evolution for example, you can't resize panels in 800x600. :-( I didn't have this problem in Suse Pro 9.3.
How about a plain text mail client? I'm using Pine myself (rather, Alpine, the new version (alpha)). Highly configurable, but needs getting used to it.
Out of curiosity, if we get into discussion on this in more detail, am I allowed to attach screen captures for examples?
I'm not the list-admin, but the best thing is to upload them to some server (web page) and just write a link to it here. Maybe in the gnome list would be more appropiate. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFHEMXItTMYHG2NR9URAlksAJwPxo36FeA1VN20rK81372sPfTIqQCeOrNr YSM2t/opFv7y1Wx+SaKBnoA= =o26G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 12 October 2007, suseROCKS wrote:
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 16:37 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
[snipped]
Websites are also causing problems these days. Seems like everyone wants to go for the cool factor, which today is white background with grey fonts. More and more visually-impaired people are complaining about this. But I'm going off-point here a bit.
I've had to take drastic measures when it comes to displaying web pages. My approach ain't beautiful, but it works. No grey fonts on white background here... I uploaded three screenshots to show how I've set up my 1280x1024 LCD. I suppose there are easier ways to upload stuff... but here we go. KMail: https://secure.storegate.com/user/share.aspx?id=c58b4956-384d-4da7-8b44- 9097e38b6777 Firefox: https://secure.storegate.com/user/share.aspx?id=5485bcf3-a89e-4705-be22- 698aff5684cb Konqueror, only the window, ran usually at this size and not maximised. For more fluent reading of longer passages of text (lines not too long.) https://secure.storegate.com/user/share.aspx?id=d2a96bca-64f8-4406-82de- 911fd409c599 Firefox used for sites requiring all the screen real estate -- Konqueror runs on virtual desktop 1 and Firefox on 3, konsole on 2 and KMail and Alpine on 4. Why? Well, they've always, or at least for a few years, been on those desktops... and my brain thus expects them to be there. And that is why I can't use Windows at the university, for example: I'm constantly pressing ctrl+3 or ctrl+4 when going for Firefox or email. Not to mention the awfully contrastless colours on XP. White text on light blue? Can't read that text even if I wanted to) KDE is for me accessible enough after some tweaking. There are, of course, many accessibility and colours related bugs on KDE, and I've been thinking of starting filing more of them. I just have a feeling they're not prioritised very high... An interesting side note. Since I have to use large font sizes, the issues with font rendering are quite obvious. On SUSE 9.3 I had fantastic font rendering: antialised, yet sharp even at larger sizes. Newer versions of freetype make things so freakingly bold at larger sizes it is almost crazy. Unfortunately, that version of freetype won't work with 10.2. I'm running 2.3.4 srpm compiled according to some guide on font rendering on openSUSE. 2.3.5 I had to downgrade back to 2.3.4 due it being even worse. If only I could still run 9.3... Regards, Tero Pesonen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
ah good! I'm really glad to see a question like this asked adn addressed on the list. I have submitted that bug to the developers and I'm really hoping to get something solved soon. I have added a new comment to it as recent research has turned up a possible cause and solution. As I previously suspected, I think Gnome 2.20 is looking for the at-spi app however because it's not in the expected location, it isn't finding it. In previous versions of gnome before 2.20, this location could be specified in a conf file. However, now it must be apassed as an arguement to configure like so: ./configure --with-atspi-dir=/..../. I am hoping to test this shortly however I have run in to dependency issues as some bonobo devel libs don't seem to be available. As a test, try installing gnome-devel, gail-devel and other dependencies needed for building accessibility support. I was installing from the shipped DVD at the time so I'll try on a download version today to check for differences. Thanks Darragh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 13:57 -0400, JP Rosevear wrote:
On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 11:59 -0500, suseROCKS wrote:
Is there a forum where I can participate in discussions on accessibility issues for people with disabilities?
If you are using GNOME, you can join opensuse-gnome@gnome.org for now.
There's also the gnome accessibility list http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list Cheers, Dave -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
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Bryen -
Carlos E. R. -
Darragh Ó Héiligh -
Dave Howorth -
Dave Howorth -
JP Rosevear -
Per Jessen -
suseROCKS
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Tero Pesonen