James Mohr wrote:

We all need to be extremely careful about blanket statements like "You can copy **any** Linux CD." Just because Linux is on it, does **not** mean you can copy it to your heart's content, give it away or sell it. Just because the Linux kernel and most of the software provided with most distributions is GPL does **not** mean you can copy the CD.

First, there is the issue of the of commercial software that Christopher pointed out. What the license is and whether you can copy that will depend on the software. You also have some SuSE software/files that they provide, which maybe they don't want copied.

Then there is the issue of the CD as a "collection of software." The vendor is probably prevented from saying that you cannot copy the individual software, but the **collection** is copyrighted, meaning you cannot simply copy the CD. You could copy individual files, but even if you copied all the files individually onto your hard disk and copied that, the specific collection **could** be copyrighted and you **could** be criminally liable.

In 1997, I published "The Linux User's Resource". It contained a copy of Linux Pro with a boiler plate license agreement that said you could **not** copy the "software". Some people who held copyrights on the software (including Allan Cox) got pissed and complained. The response by the publisher's lawyers was that they were copyrighting the collection and not the individual programs, and they could legally say that people could not copy it. Granted the boiler plate license was pretty vague, but this was 1997 and the issues with the GPL were not as clear as they are today. However, the issue of a *collection* of software still applies.

Look at a music book which contains music from Bach, Beethoven and others. More than likely, there is a comment on one of the first few pages "This collection copyright ...". They can do that, even though all of the music is in the public domain, not just GPL. The same applies basically all intellectual property. Even if it is in the public domain, you can copyright the collection and it is legally binding for them to do so.

I seriously doubt that a judge will accept a defense where you say "Joe Blow on the SuSE mailing list said I could copy it all I want." Check the fine print of your distribution or call the vendor. Otherwise it could be very expensive.

Regards,

jimmo

On Thursday 21 March 2002 20:43, Michael Garabedian wrote:

...

-----Original Message----- From: Michael Garabedian [mailto:mikejr@emergyscorp.com] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:34 PM To: 'James.Hatridge@epost.de' Subject: RE: [SLE] Reselling SuSE ?????

Yes you can, as long as you do not make a profit off of the giving of the software. You could throw a consulting fee in there though, You are not making the money off of selling the software, but the configuration, man hours involved, and information not contained in the suse cds but in your head are licensed to you.

-----Original Message----- From: Jim Hatridge [mailto:James.Hatridge@epost.de] Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:53 AM To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: [SLE] Reselling SuSE ?????

Hi all..

I've been reading about the Yast1 / 2 problem. Let me ask a question. For example, if I buy a copy of SuSE 8.0 and burn copies to give away, that's OK, right? What if I charged only for my costs?

Or what if I sell the same copies to guys downunder for say double my cost, ie about 20 euro. Is this OK? If not, why not? Heck the Aussies on the list were moaning about the price. I could burn just the 7 disks and mail them there for around 20-25 euro. What's stopping me?

BTW, I just got a burner <G>.

JIM

-- --------------------------------------- "Science has promised man power...But, as so often happens when people are seduced by promises of power, the price is servitude and impotence. Power is nothing if it is not the power to choose." Joseph Weizenbaum of MIT said in reference to Computers. --------------------------------------- The Great Linux-NT Debate: <http://www.jimmo.com/Linux-NT_Debate/index.html> --------------------------------------- NOTE: All messages sent to me in response to my posts to newsgroups or forums are subject to reposting.

If this were the case, nobody should be allowed to download Suse Linux from the Internet. But this is apparently possible (I rather bought my copies) though one does not only download files but a collection of files. So this 'collection' argument does not apply here. As to the bungled software this must of coursed be looked at individually.

On Friday 22 March 2002 17:37, hwm@onetel.net.uk wrote: <alot snipped>

If this were the case, nobody should be allowed to download Suse Linux from the Internet. But this is apparently possible (I rather bought my copies) though one does not only download files but a collection of files. So this 'collection' argument does not apply here. As to the bungled software this must of coursed be looked at individually.

Not true at all! You are making a huge jump from what I said to mean that no one is allowed to download it from the Internet. There is a collection of software that someone **could** claim the right to, legally and enforceably, depending on where you live and what you are doing with it. I know there are differences in the copyright laws between the US, UK and Germany, but the basics apply. I have a Thin Lizzy songbook that I bought in London about 15 years ago that says the compilation is copyrighted. So at least then, the UK had laws allowing people to copyright collections. The law **still** applies in the US. Besides, it seems you were not listening to what I said. Just because someone has a copyright, does not mean they prevent you from copying it. I said: "the specific collection **could** be copyrighted and you **could** be criminally liable." If (not that the word "If" does **not** mean they have or will) SuSE has decided to copyright the collection, they could say that you could not copy the collection at all (Internet or CD). Or they **might **say you can copy the collection if you download it from their site, but **only** from their site. Or, they **could** say that you could copy it, download it and even sell it. That does not alter the fact that SuSE **might** have a copyright on the collection and you **might** be criminally liable if you make copies and sell them (or maybe even if you don't sell them, just copy them). Essentially, all of the GPL software is copyrighted. However, the copyright owner allows you to copy it. That does not alter the fact that if they wanted they **could** say you cannot copy it. The **could** also say that it may only be copy it with just a **specific** Linux distribution. That's what a copyright is. You have the right to say how it is copied. (that what the word means!!!) Regards, jimmo -- --------------------------------------- "Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others thing you are." -- John Wooden --------------------------------------- Be sure to visit the Linux Tutorial: http://www.linux-tutorial.info --------------------------------------- NOTE: All messages sent to me in response to my posts to newsgroups or forums are subject to reposting.

On Monday 25 March 2002 18:37, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Monday 25 March 2002 18.30, James Mohr wrote:

...

I have a Thin Lizzy songbook that I bought in London about 15 years ago that says the compilation is copyrighted.

Are the individual songs in the public domain? Is it the layout/editing that has been copyrighted or the table of contents? Copyright law is a very tricky subject. You can't just look at a copyright in a book and deduce which aspects of the work are copyrighted. You can't even assume the copyright will stand up in court (in your example you said Prentice Hall had a banner that forbad the copying of "the software" which they were clearly not entitled to do, since "the software" was under the GPL)

//Anders

The individual songs are not in the public domain, but the collection was, and was probably not limited to simply the page with the table of contents. I would **imagine** that no one could create a book that had exactly these same songs. One different song and it is a different collection. In the case of my book, PH could not prevent you from copying the individual software packages as that would violate the GPL. However, they **could** prevent you from copying the entire CD. There were things on the CD that I created as part of the book. If the term "software" is used to describe the *collection* of bytes on the CD, then PH could probably get away with preventing you, or at least take legal action if you simply made a 1:1 copy of the CD. There were/are things on the CD that were not covered by the GPL (unfortunately), so PH or any other publisher **could** say you are in violation of the copyright for that specific material by making a 1:1 copy. The same **could** apply to SuSE or any other distro. Even if the terminology is not clear on the package and you copy material that does not fall within the GPL, that could make you criminally liable. Granted, you cannot "deduce which aspects of the work are copyrighted". However, you **should** assume that the "copyright will stand up in court" unless you can prove otherwise. If someone had made a copy of the CD in my book, despite the fact that there was GPL software on it, you would/could be in violation of New York State copyright laws. Whether they apply in the UK, Germany, Mongolia or Elbonia is a different matter. OK, assume that PH or SuSE or any other company that makes a CD with the word "Linux" on it has **no** rights to that CD and copy it to your heart's content. Just don't be surprised when you end up in court because of a 500 byte text file that the vendor has a copyright on and you are not legally allowed to copy. Few of us on this list are competent enough to say whether we can copy every CD within our own country, let alone in other countries. The attitude I take with this is the same as the way I administer my systems as work: the path of least danger. In this case, I don't assume that I can copy the CD, just because "Linux" is written on it. Regards, jimmo -- --------------------------------------- "Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others thing you are." -- John Wooden --------------------------------------- Be sure to visit the Linux Tutorial: http://www.linux-tutorial.info --------------------------------------- NOTE: All messages sent to me in response to my posts to newsgroups or forums are subject to reposting.