[opensuse] Mailing list / IRC channel layout
Hi, now that the rename of "SUSE Linux" into "openSUSE" is taking place with the release of alpha 3 I think it is time to also adjust our mailing list layout. I would like to propose the following changes: 1. Generic user support + catch-all list opensuse@opensuse.org (changed list description) The last year has shown that opensuse@opensuse.org is the first list users subscribe to if they have questions about the distribution, or are looking for user-level support. The original idea was that these questions would be handled by the established suse-linux lists. This did not work well for several reasons and led to many high-volume discussions about the list itself and the naming scheme. I assume we're all tired of these discussions. I think we can use the natural tendency of new users to subscribe to this list by making it exactly the list new users need: - user questions and support of all levels - generic questions about the distribution and the project - discussions about specific topics for which other lists exist can still _politely_ be sent there (e.g. -wiki, -buildservice) 2. Project / community related discussion opensuse-project@opensuse.org (new) This list would be for people who want to take a more active role in the openSUSE project as a whole. Possible topics for this list could include, but wouldn't be restricted to: - organisation of Linux events where openSUSE as a project is present (FOSDEM 2007, LinuxTag 2007...) - new subprojects - requests for new mailing lists (as a result of a successful subproject start ;-)) - activities to promote openSUSE and/or attract more developers (e.g. Google Summer of Code) 3. Discussion of various other topics as needed opensuse-buildservice@opensuse.org (unchanged) opensuse-wiki@opensuse.org (unchanged) opensuse-factory@opensuse.org (unchanged) opensuse-packaging@opensuse.org (unchanged) opensuse-doc@opensuse.org (unchanged) opensuse-translation@opensuse.org (unchanged) opensuse-optimize@opensuse.org (unchanged) opensuse-ipf@opensuse.org (unchanged) These are mostly self-explanatory and will not be changed in any way. There is a slight overlap between opensuse and opensuse-factory if people use the development snapshots of the distribution, but this hasn't been a problem so far. 4. Read-only lists opensuse-announce@opensuse.org (unchanged) Low volume, for those who just want the news, not the chatter. opensuse-commit@opensuse.org (unchanged) High-volume, shows the changelog of every package submitted to factory 5. Foreign language lists opensuse-fr@opensuse.org (unchanged) opensuse-hu@opensuse.org (unchanged) opensuse-it@opensuse.org (unchanged) If a group of speakers of any given language want opensuse mailing lists in that language, we will always start with opensuse-<languagecode>@opensuse.org, and this will be a catch-all list for all topics mentioned in section 1. to 3. If this list gets enough traffic to justify a split into several lists, they will follow the layout in section 2. and 3. but add a language code. Examples would be: opensuse-project-de@opensuse.org (non-existent example) opensuse-wiki-fr@opensuse.org (non-existant-example) 6. Existing SUSE Linux lists With the renaming of the distribution, the mailing list names used on lists.suse.com will eventually be outdated. We consider merging some of these lists with their openSUSE counterparts. Obvious candidates are e.g.: suse-linux@suse.com -> opensuse-de@opensuse.org suse-linux-e@suse.com -> opensuse@opensuse.org As the suse linux lists are long-existing, active communities, this step will not happen without a discussion on the affected lists. 7. IRC channels IRC channels on freenode should follow the same layout as the mailing lists, if a mailing list for the respective topic exists. Right now the following active channels exist: #opensuse #opensuse-de #opensuse-devel #openSUSE-GNOME #opensuse-project #opensuse-factory #opensuse-buildservice Of these I think #opensuse-devel is unnecessary and should be merged with #opensuse-factory, but I might have overlooked something. Could those active on #opensuse-devel please speak up? ;-) Discuss... cheers, Sonja -- Sonja Krause-Harder (skh@suse.de) Research & Development SUSE Linux Products GmbH
Hi, On Thursday, August 10, 2006 at 15:47:55, Sonja Krause-Harder wrote:
1. Generic user support + catch-all list
opensuse@opensuse.org (changed list description)
I assume we're all tired of these discussions. I think we can use the natural tendency of new users to subscribe to this list by making it exactly the list new users need:
- user questions and support of all levels - generic questions about the distribution and the project - discussions about specific topics for which other lists exist can still _politely_ be sent there (e.g. -wiki, -buildservice)
I would strongly recommend that once we have opensuse-users we start to friendly tell misguided users about it :)
6. Existing SUSE Linux lists
suse-linux@suse.com -> opensuse-de@opensuse.org suse-linux-e@suse.com -> opensuse@opensuse.org
As the suse linux lists are long-existing, active communities, this step will not happen without a discussion on the affected lists.
And i wont do anything without a very long transition time. So SL and SLE will exist at least another year (if not forever). Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway
Torsdag 10 august 2006 15:47 skrev Sonja Krause-Harder:
Of these I think #opensuse-devel is unnecessary and should be merged with #opensuse-factory, but I might have overlooked something. Could those active on #opensuse-devel please speak up? ;-)
#opensuse-devel already forwards people to #opensuse-factory - and is thus being steadily shut down under Stephan Binner's watchful eye. Martin
Torsdag 10 august 2006 15:47 skrev Sonja Krause-Harder:
opensuse-project@opensuse.org (new)
I tried to subscribe to this sending an empty mail to:
opensuse-project-subscribe@opensuse.org. Got the error below.
This is the Postfix program at host Relay1.suse.de.
I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>
If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.
The Postfix program
Hi, On Thursday, August 10, 2006 at 16:46:38, Martin Schlander wrote:
Torsdag 10 august 2006 15:47 skrev Sonja Krause-Harder:
opensuse-project@opensuse.org (new)
I tried to subscribe to this sending an empty mail to: opensuse-project-subscribe@opensuse.org. Got the error below.
Because Sonjas mail is a proposal and no announcement. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, Core Services "Rules change. The Game remains the same." - Omar (The Wire)
Torsdag 10 august 2006 17:02 skrev Henne Vogelsang:
Because Sonjas mail is a proposal and no announcement.
Once again I was too fast on the trigger. Sorry. Let me be the first to say that I'm fully in favour of this proposal, with the following small additions/clarifications. 1) I think it should be made totally clear that opensuse-project@opensuse.org is an exact replacement for the original intended purpose of opensuse@opensuse.org. As I understand it this is also what's meant but I think it could be clearer. 2) I think future status meetings should be held at #opensuse-project. Because the status meetings are a project-thing, and less risk of spammy support-like questions during meetings there. Martin
Sonja Krause-Harder a écrit :
Hi,
now that the rename of "SUSE Linux" into "openSUSE" is taking place with the release of alpha 3 I think it is time to also adjust our mailing list layout. I would like to propose the following changes:
I agree totally
opensuse-project-de@opensuse.org (non-existent example) opensuse-wiki-fr@opensuse.org (non-existant-example)
the other way round should be better (opensuse-fr-project), but at least for fr the necessity is not for a visible future
suse-linux@suse.com -> opensuse-de@opensuse.org suse-linux-e@suse.com -> opensuse@opensuse.org
As the suse linux lists are long-existing, active communities, this step will not happen without a discussion on the affected lists.
as there will be a new openSUSE list for users, we can expect a slow decreasing flow in these. However the merging with openSUSE lists should not happen, there is traffic enough for two lists :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
Hello, Am Donnerstag, 10. August 2006 18:06 schrieb jdd:
Sonja Krause-Harder a écrit :
opensuse-project-de@opensuse.org (non-existent example) opensuse-wiki-fr@opensuse.org (non-existant-example)
the other way round should be better (opensuse-fr-project),
Not really. Please don't put the language "between" the topic. (I consider the topic to be "opensuse-project", not just "project". What project? ;-)
suse-linux@suse.com -> opensuse-de@opensuse.org suse-linux-e@suse.com -> opensuse@opensuse.org
As the suse linux lists are long-existing, active communities, this step will not happen without a discussion on the affected lists.
as there will be a new openSUSE list for users, we can expect a slow decreasing flow in these. However the merging with openSUSE lists should not happen, there is traffic enough for two lists :-)
Enough traffic for two lists? Maybe. But having two lists per language about the same topic will cause lots of duplicate work because the same questions (at least the popular ones) have to be answered in two places. (Oh, and maybe there's a point when nobody can "invent" new questions ;-)) BTW: I see this problem mostly for suse-linux-e (which has the opensuse@ mailinglist as counterpart). For lists in other languages (like the german suse-linux) it's "just" a rename. (This implies _not_ to create opensuse-de as long as suse-linux exists - IMHO it would cause more harm than good.) However, this should (also) be discussed on the @suse.com lists. (inserting another line from Sonja's mail:)
Discuss...
That's hard to do with such a good proposal ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- Wie meinte doch neulich ein OS/2 oder CygWin-User: PATH=C:\backspace\return;E:\tab\newline;D:\home W:\pakete\mypaket\configure --prefix=F:\fondlinge [Ralf Corsepius in suse-programming]
Christian Boltz a écrit :
Hello,
Am Donnerstag, 10. August 2006 18:06 schrieb jdd:
opensuse-project-de@opensuse.org (non-existent example) opensuse-wiki-fr@opensuse.org (non-existant-example)
Sonja Krause-Harder a écrit : the other way round should be better (opensuse-fr-project),
Not really. Please don't put the language "between" the topic. (I consider the topic to be "opensuse-project", not just "project". What project? ;-)
take account of the fact that the name of the main list if opensuse-<lang>, so this part should stay fixed, and new things added after. all french langage lists should be opensuse-fr-xxx. a new project (for example) french list is not, in my opinion, a dispatching of the english one in two parts, but a split of the opensuse-fr list in two. Most users of the opensuse-fr-project list will also read opensuse-fr, not opensuse-project. in summary, lists are bind to the wiki. On the fr wiki I only advertise the french lists, so the naming is obvious there.
But having two lists per language about the same topic
I don't know for non en langages. of course, for french only one list is usefull and will probably (alas) be for years, so this discussion is "academic" :-) will cause lots
of duplicate work because the same questions (at least the popular ones) have to be answered in two places.
anyway, questions are always answered again and again... nobody read archives :-(
BTW: I see this problem mostly for suse-linux-e (which has the opensuse@ mailinglist as counterpart).
absolutely jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/galerie_photo_web/expo/index.html http://lucien.dodin.net http://fr.susewiki.org/index.php?title=Gérer_ses_photos
What is the default language for lists without a language code in the list name? Will it be English? At the moment, it's a bit confusing as for instance suse-kde is English but suse-linux is German and the English counterpart is given by suse-linux-e... I think we should have a common default language for all lists without a language encoding in the name. Most likely, it should be English :) That avoids any confusion. Just my 2 cents, Th. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Christian Boltz -
Henne Vogelsang -
Henne Vogelsang -
jdd -
Martin Schlander -
Sonja Krause-Harder -
Thomas Hertweck