On Saturday 18 November 2006 21:30, M Harris wrote:

On Saturday 18 November 2006 05:48, Mike McMullin wrote:

...

  Isn't this actually better suited to the OT list?  I'm not trying to be a list Cop but the noise levels on the list have risen so much that I'm killing a good 75% of all messages.  :/

Well... if you'll stop killing the *noise* and pay attention you may realize that the life of the opensuse lists may be dubious to say the least... and maybe dead to say the most...

This is a major issue right now... its news... its not noise... its right on topic..... and it has everything to offer the technical community supporting or thinking about supporting Suse in the future.

The trouble in all of this (IMO) is the number of folks that think this issue is noise... to be relegated to an OT list where nobody is listening anyway... if you folks aren't going to listen on the primary list you absolutely aren't going to listen on the OT list... and if you don't start listening soon there may not be any Suse lists to listen to! YOU LISTENING??

First, to whom are you addressing yourself when you say "you folks?" Secondly, how much effect do you think what transpires here will have on the decision-making process as Novell? My guess would be slim to bupkis.

...

M Harris <><

RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, 2006-11-18 at 22:45 -0800, Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Saturday 18 November 2006 21:30, M Harris wrote:

...

On Saturday 18 November 2006 05:48, Mike McMullin wrote:

...

Isn't this actually better suited to the OT list? I'm not trying to be a list Cop but the noise levels on the list have risen so much that I'm killing a good 75% of all messages. :/

Well... if you'll stop killing the *noise* and pay attention you may realize that the life of the opensuse lists may be dubious to say the least... and maybe dead to say the most...

This is a major issue right now... its news... its not noise... its right on topic..... and it has everything to offer the technical community supporting or thinking about supporting Suse in the future.

The trouble in all of this (IMO) is the number of folks that think this issue is noise... to be relegated to an OT list where nobody is listening anyway... if you folks aren't going to listen on the primary list you absolutely aren't going to listen on the OT list... and if you don't start listening soon there may not be any Suse lists to listen to! YOU LISTENING??

First, to whom are you addressing yourself when you say "you folks?"

Secondly, how much effect do you think what transpires here will have on the decision-making process as Novell? My guess would be slim to bupkis.

Thirdly, since when did adhering to a sense of order i.e. using OT for this actually non-technical discussion, mean that it isn't worth the discussion? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 18 November 2006 21:45, Randall R Schulz wrote:

Secondly, how much effect do you think what transpires here will have on the decision-making process as Novell? My guess would be slim to bupkis.

I'd take that action. You have already started to see the effect it has had. Ballmer mentioned it and so did Novell. They are both in ass-covering mode as we speak. Some of Novells own people are starting to speak out and even Microsoft hacks are noticing the flack. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061115124430626 -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

--- Randall R Schulz wrote:

First, to whom are you addressing yourself when you say "you folks?"

Secondly, how much effect do you think what transpires here will have on the decision-making process as Novell? My guess would be slim to bupkis.

Bupkis? Shame on you. It's been so long since I've heard that term I damn near snarfed my coffee when I read this. Don't be going and try to choke us old SUSE users. With all those threatening to jump ship, SUSE needs all of us stubborn old farts it can get. Frank ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510k for $1,698/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 22 November 2006 19:00, Carl William Spitzer IV wrote:

...

users. With all those threatening to jump ship, SUSE needs all of us stubborn old farts it can get.

The older and more stubborn the better.  Us kids need all the roll models for stubborn resolve we can get its too easy to think of quitting just when the distro needs some positive feed back and honest critique.

Old guys don't give up that easy. We've been around too long to believe in the first story. Being presented as Linux doesn't make the source correct. You can see all kind of them, from good willing, but short thinking and fast on trigger to MS trolls pretending to have Linux purity in mind. -- Regards, Rajko M. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tue November 21 2006 03:22, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Randall R Schulz writes:

...

Secondly, how much effect do you think what transpires here will have on the decision-making process as Novell? My guess would be slim to bupkis.

Let me that while personally I did not read these emails over the weekend and was busy yesterday and therefore just now go through the list - and hate it that I cannot concentrate fully on 10.2 - I and others at Novell are in discussions with our management and they do hear and understand the concerns. A result of this is the open letter we just published signed by our CEO himself: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html

Andreas

Well AJ, given Ballmers history didn't you guys see this coming. M$ and Ballmer have a very long history of hypocrisy and deceit. From the tone of the letter it seems that perhaps Novell's intentions were honest and meant as you've declared in the open letter. But Ballmer and Gates have are well known to be pirates and tech raiders. This was just what they needed to recharge their FUD machine. The only upside I can see is if your corporate and industry clients see through M$' bullshit and therein further distance themselves from M$ - but that's not a given in the slightest. Remember that M$ did everything in it's power to kill and derail Linux and F/OSS. The only reason IMHO M$ even entertained entering into such an agreement in the first place is because their efforts to kill F/OSS have been largely unsuccessful and their clients (as well as many of their devs) are leaving the M$ coffers at a steady rate and M$ fears an anti-M$ critical mass isn't far behind. Hence, desperation ensues and M$ tries to woo Novell - all the while with a well crafted plan to undermine and destroy - I believe it's called the 3E! I just hope this doesn't backfire on Novell and negatively impact F/OSS and Linux. This is a pity! I have been using SuSU since 7.x. And when I think how SuSE started and where it's gone the thought of having it dismantled by Ballmer and his cohorts I find it a bitter pill to swallow - and can only imagine what the Original SuSE team feels. I truly hope this works out - but please please be careful when dealing with the likes of M$. I personally would trust them any further than I could spit - and I tend to dribble down my chin when I try :P Cheers, Curtis. - -- Spammers Beware: Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again! Like the song say: "Everything's 'Zen'... I don't think so"! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFYuij7CQBg4DqqCwRApMlAKCqyrtBzFLFyNILMaHM+chxCiM7PgCfaVGP xiOGCN/Fdl+AaY8B68XI/Oo= =A+KK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Randall R Schulz writes:

...

Secondly, how much effect do you think what transpires here will have on the decision-making process as Novell? My guess would be slim to bupkis.

Let me that while personally I did not read these emails over the weekend and was busy yesterday and therefore just now go through the list - and hate it that I cannot concentrate fully on 10.2 - I and others at Novell are in discussions with our management and they do hear and understand the concerns. A result of this is the open letter we just published signed by our CEO himself: http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html

Pity that the Microsoft statement attached to the letter simply reinforces the whole reason Microsoft insisted on including the patent issue. How many years before Microsoft can simply cash in their claims? Surely people should AGREE the terms before signing anything? In the meantime I'm moving everything away from SUSE - Sorry but it's not the way *I* do business :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://home.lsces.co.uk/ModelEngineersDigitalWorkshop/ Treasurer - Firebird Foundation Inc. - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org