On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 05:30:45 -0700 (PDT) ti@amb.org (Ti Kan) wrote:

A full defrag of a windows filesystem (both FAT and NTFS) not only defragments files, but moves all files toward the beginning of the disk, so that the end of the disk is all free space (assuming that the disk is not full). This then allows reduction of the filesystem size without loss of data. If you're growing the filesystem then a defrag is probably not necessary.

A completely defrag'ed filesystem is easier to repair/recover if a catastrophic error occur. This is not entirely the case any longer. There is certainly some benefit to defragmenting the Windows file systems, but I believe that Partition Magic will take care of that during the move/resize operations.

...

Of course, Linux filesystems rarely require the use of a degragmenter.

If blocks are allocated and used near the end of a Linux filesystem's partition, then I don't think you could reduce its size without the equivalent of a defragment operation. The aim here is not so much to make files contiguous, but to make as much contiguous free space as possible at the end of the partition. Is there such a thing as a defragmenter for any of Linux's filesystems? This is not true, blocks may be allocated anywhere in the file system. The partitioner must take care of moving files no matter where they lie in the file system. Linux and Unix file systems make an effort to reduce fragmentation. There is one defragmenter that I am aware of.

So, My question still remains, do the partitioners require that the Windows file systems be defragmented before the partitioning operation. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9

Based on Gene Holmerud's post I looked at DriveWorks (about $69US) since I am not familiar with this product.

But, I have one question regarding the need for defragging before moving or resizing. For a long time, I remember that Partition Magic used to advise defragmenting a partition prior to moving or resizing, but in the newer versions this was no longer a requirement. The reason I am asking this is because during installfests, having a Windows user perform a defrag may be very time consuming. So, the real question is "does a Windows partition require a defrag before using a partitioner, such as: 1. Partition Magic (8+) 2. DiskWorks (Partition Commander) 3. Parted/QTParted

Of course, Linux filesystems rarely require the use of a degragmenter. Here's the schtick: I have only experienced any problems resizing on NTFS so just tried different things until it worked. Those were: (1)defragging using NORTON, not the onboard defrag, which doesn't defrag free space; (2)deleting

On Saturday 21 August 2004 07:10, Jerry Feldman wrote: the page file (a.k.a., swap file); (3)resizing the partition w/o difficulty. -- ..."Yogi" CH Namasté Yoga Studio "If music be the food of love, why can't rabbits sing?"

On Saturday 21 August 2004 09:38 am, Jerry Feldman wrote:

So, My question still remains, do the partitioners require that the Windows file systems be defragmented before the partitioning operation.

I don't believe it does. It does (for most partitioning programs) require that the disk not be in need of a scandisk. (i.e. it has errors that can be fixed by scandisk) -- +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Bruce S. Marshall bmarsh@bmarsh.com Bellaire, MI 08/21/04 11:44 + +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Levy's Ninth Law: "Only God can make a random selection."

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 11:45:30 -0400 Bruce Marshall wrote:

On Saturday 21 August 2004 09:38 am, Jerry Feldman wrote:

...

So, My question still remains, do the partitioners require that the Windows file systems be defragmented before the partitioning operation.

I don't believe it does. It does (for most partitioning programs) require that the disk not be in need of a scandisk. (i.e. it has errors that can be fixed by scandisk)

The last Partition Magic that I bought was 6.0. it does recommend that you run a disk check before you use PM, but says nothing about defragmenting before it is used. And, PM also contains a check utility. AFAIK, while it might be a good thing to do, most partitioners do not require a file system to be defragmented prior to use. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9

Jerry: Based on the other responses, sounds like a resizing will result in a defrag, either done manually before, or by the resizer itself. It did not apply to my recent use since I was reloading XP anyway. And my W98 tasks, are, well, lost in Senior Moments. You mentioned the likely time loss during an install fest. Perhaps suggesting to participants wishing to have a dual boot system that they do a defrag prior to the fest would minimize the effect. Gene ------- Forwarded message ------- From: Jerry Feldman To: suse-linux-e@suse.com Subject: Re: [SLE] Need to resize XP partition Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 09:38:41 -0400

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 05:30:45 -0700 (PDT) ti@amb.org (Ti Kan) wrote:

...

A full defrag of a windows filesystem (both FAT and NTFS) not only defragments files, but moves all files toward the beginning of the disk, so that the end of the disk is all free space (assuming that the disk is not full). This then allows reduction of the filesystem size without loss of data. If you're growing the filesystem then a defrag is probably not necessary.

A completely defrag'ed filesystem is easier to repair/recover if a catastrophic error occur. This is not entirely the case any longer. There is certainly some benefit to defragmenting the Windows file systems, but I believe that Partition Magic will take care of that during the move/resize operations.

...

...

Of course, Linux filesystems rarely require the use of a degragmenter.

If blocks are allocated and used near the end of a Linux filesystem's partition, then I don't think you could reduce its size without the equivalent of a defragment operation. The aim here is not so much to make files contiguous, but to make as much contiguous free space as possible at the end of the partition. Is there such a thing as a defragmenter for any of Linux's filesystems? This is not true, blocks may be allocated anywhere in the file system. The partitioner must take care of moving files no matter where they lie in the file system. Linux and Unix file systems make an effort to reduce fragmentation. There is one defragmenter that I am aware of.

So, My question still remains, do the partitioners require that the Windows file systems be defragmented before the partitioning operation.

-- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 09:59:41 -0700 Gene Holmerud wrote:

You mentioned the likely time loss during an install fest. Perhaps suggesting to participants wishing to have a dual boot system that they do a defrag prior to the fest would minimize the effect.

We used to do this, but most attendees barely come prepared. -- Jerry Feldman Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9

CWSIV wrote:

Then assign them to the newbies who can handle the windows chores while you get started on the others.

Remember the old fashioned one room schoolhouse model the older more experienced kids helped the yunger ones.

CWSIV

That sounds like a winner. Gene