On Wednesday, December 07, 2011 11:34 AM Lars Müller wrote:

On Wed, Dec 07, 2011 at 05:22:39PM +0100, jdd wrote:

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Le 07/12/2011 17:14, James D. Parra a écrit :

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Any opinions, observations, or pit-falls, in upgrading an 11.2 install to 12.1?

depends of what is in your install. But in my own situation, I wouldn't try it but do a fresh install

Don't listen to him. Do an upgrade as real man do it! ;)

Honestly, upgrades work quite well. I've done so for several openSUSE 11.4 systems an some 11.3.

Some via zypper from inside the running old system and some by booting the install kernel - the file is named linux - and initrd from inside the /distribution/12.1/repo/oss/boot/$ARCH/loader/ directory at http://download.opensuse.org/

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Linuxrc describes how to pass settings to the installation environment.

But before you start ensure to read http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Most_annoying_bugs_12.1

Have a lot of success!

Lars

I've also done upgrades rather than fresh installs for a long time, including skipping over releases. Fresh installs with keeping a separate /home partition can work well, but like an upgrade, if there are really major changes there can still be a lot of difficulties. Given that, and how much I hate migrating my /home data if I have to do a 100% fresh install, what has worked best for me: I use the DVD, not zypper. This provides more granular control. And, even though it is time consuming, in YaST Software Management I can manually reconcile package inconsistencies which zypper might struggles with. Worst case, if there is something that cannot be resolved, I know what it is and probably why, and can be prepared to deal with it later. But most importantly, I would never do a leapfrog upgrade like you are considering - 3 releases - without running a simulation first. And have a good backup. You don't want get stuck in the middle of an upgrade, or worse yet, have it altogether crap out and be left with a badly inconsistent system. It might not even restart. And then you would definitely be doing a fresh install. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Dec 08, 2011 at 07:29:03PM -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Thu, Dec 8, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Dennis Gallien wrote:

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On Wednesday, December 07, 2011 11:34 AM Lars Müller wrote: [ 8< ] I've also done upgrades rather than fresh installs for a long time, including skipping over releases.  Fresh installs with keeping a separate /home partition can work well, but like an upgrade, if there are really major changes there can still be a lot of difficulties.  Given that, and how much I hate migrating my /home data if I have to do a 100% fresh install, what has worked best for me:

I use the DVD, not zypper.  This provides more granular control.  And, even though it is time consuming, in YaST Software Management I can manually reconcile package inconsistencies which zypper might struggles with.  Worst case, if there is something that cannot be resolved, I know what it is and probably why, and can be prepared to deal with it later.

YaST makes use of libzypp which is used by? Yes, zypper too.

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But most importantly, I would never do a leapfrog upgrade like you are considering - 3 releases - without running a simulation first.  And have a good backup.  You don't want get stuck in the middle of an upgrade, or worse yet, have it altogether crap out and be left with a badly inconsistent system.  It might not even restart.  And then you would definitely be doing a fresh install.

libzypp now downloads packages in advance. To speed up the process I usually attach an extral drive with a copy of the required repositories to the system I'm going to upgrade.

When you do a zypper dup from version to version, there is %post_install logic for a log of packages that migrates the ondisk format of data from one version to the next.

This is not limited an uograde process from version to version. YOu might even skip one or more in between. But it must be quite clear that the bigger the gap is the higher the risk cause to a changed configuration file is.

It is designed and tested to work one release at a time. Even then I've had problems with samba as an example not quite getting the migration right.

And the bug ID of this issue is? Please include as much as possible information as you have available. Was this an issue to one of the TDB files?

There is no way in the world I would try jumping 3 versions at once. There are sure to be migration steps that get dropped by that and you end up dead.

I would upgrade from 11.2 => 11.3 => 11.4 => 12.1

Yes, this is the way with the lowest risk potential.

And at each release step I would test your main functionalities and fix any errors you find related to file formats before moving to the next one.

Or file bbug reports. Have I said before filing bug reports and sharing experience by this way I consider as quite important? ;) Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 12:24:00PM -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Lars Müller wrote:

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It is designed and tested to work one release at a time.  Even then I've had problems with samba as an example not quite getting the migration right.

And the bug ID of this issue is?  Please include as much as possible information as you have available.

Was this an issue to one of the TDB files?

I think it was the secrets.tbd file, but my memory could be wrong. The solution was easy enough I did not have to ask for help as I recall.

That's the first SUSE user report about a TDB not being migrated correctly with an upgrade. And even at https://bugzilla.samba.org/ I can't find any open issue at the moment. We've implemented a backup approach to dump all TDBs to plain text files before we upgrade the binaries. Till now we have this only in use for a very special use case with SUSE Linux Enterprise 10. There Samba binaries covered by GPLv3 are offered as part of an optional repository. To allow customers a smooth rollback even without btrfs - have I said how cool this stuff is in openSUSE 12.1? :) - we had to implement something as part of the package. As I'm once was bitten by an ugly broken rpm post script issue I try hard to keep as much as possible script magic out of the package. We could do this as part of the YaST install workflow. But then it would not covered the zypper use case.

It was a transition from openSUSE 11.0 => 11.1 I believe and I did not file a bugzilla.

Shame on you Greg! ;) Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: On Wednesday, 2011-12-07 at 17:34 +0100, Lars Müller wrote:

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Any opinions, observations, or pit-falls, in upgrading an 11.2 install to 12.1?

depends of what is in your install. But in my own situation, I wouldn't try it but do a fresh install

Don't listen to him. Do an upgrade as real man do it! ;)

Honestly, upgrades work quite well. I've done so for several openSUSE 11.4 systems an some 11.3.

Some via zypper from inside the running old system and some by booting

A zypper dup upgrade across two versions is not supported. Any bugzilla on this will be WONTFIX inmediately. It is on the archive, I asked. A boot DVD and upgrade is supported, AFAIK, only between two supported versions - and 11.2 is not. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk7hW24ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VvYwCfY1+k+FFpilmxxXnpd1FYewqP 0O8An0Y9sWgfHwqQc4TbCQtsFDZipoz2 =Y9GH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On Thursday, December 08, 2011 08:01 PM James D. Parra wrote:

A zypper dup upgrade across two versions is not supported. Any bugzilla on this will be WONTFIX inmediately. It is on the archive, I asked.

A boot DVD and upgrade is supported, AFAIK, only between two supported versions - and 11.2 is not. ~~~~~~~

Thanks Carlos and all. Just to confirm, even with an 11.3 DVD I won't be able to upgrade my system from 11.2 to 11.3?

Best regards,

James

While it is not supported, it will probably work. I don't remember if 11.3 is still supported, but nevertheless an 11.3 DVD was intended to upgrade 11.2 and would typically include fixes that were previously in 11.2 updates, i.e., so while wise it is not a prerequisite that the release to be upgraded already be fully patched up. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:50:45AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Wednesday, 2011-12-07 at 17:34 +0100, Lars Müller wrote:

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Any opinions, observations, or pit-falls, in upgrading an 11.2 install to 12.1?

depends of what is in your install. But in my own situation, I wouldn't try it but do a fresh install

Don't listen to him. Do an upgrade as real man do it! ;)

Honestly, upgrades work quite well. I've done so for several openSUSE 11.4 systems an some 11.3.

Some via zypper from inside the running old system and some by booting

A zypper dup upgrade across two versions is not supported. Any bugzilla on this will be WONTFIX inmediately. It is on the archive, I asked.

Please quote the URL to the archive. This is quite easy and makes it easier to follow. Oh I remember, I tried to explain this to you too. Go, check the archive. ;) It's right, the most safest way is to go from version to version. But you ever heared about SUSE Linux Enterprise (SLE)? This product shares the code base with Ubuntu, Fedora, RedHat, or with openSUSE? Well, in between the SLE releases there are several openSUSE releases. While a huge parte of the code is shared between them. And the final step to help you to follow is: such upgrades of SLE products never work as the SLE customers missed all the small version upgrades in between? Think some minutes and maybe two or even three times about this. It's reality versus what people tell you. Each such report closed with resolution wontfix sooner or later might cause an upgrade issue with SLE products. Well, it's not your fault to argue this way. It's more an issue of the developer arguing to you.

A boot DVD and upgrade is supported, AFAIK, only between two supported versions - and 11.2 is not.

Here the same applies. HTH Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 03:06:01AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Friday, 2011-12-09 at 18:18 +0100, Lars Müller wrote:

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On Fri, Dec 09, 2011 at 01:50:45AM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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A zypper dup upgrade across two versions is not supported. Any bugzilla on this will be WONTFIX inmediately. It is on the archive, I asked.

Please quote the URL to the archive. This is quite easy and makes it easier to follow.

I have that email archived in my computer for reference:

Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 09:39:31 +0100 From: Stephan Kulow <> To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] "zypper dup" from 11.2 to 11.4?

Am Donnerstag, 9. Dezember 2010 schrieb Gerald Pfeifer:

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On Wed, 8 Dec 2010, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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In the past, we recommended to use the dup feature to upgrade from 11.2 to 11.3. I'm wondering whether it will be supported to upgrade directly from 11.2 to 11.4 and thus skipping one version (11.3)?

It will not be supported - even if it may work.

Not supported by who?

And, as a corollary, who supports the upgrade path from 11.3 to 11.4?

(And what does support mean to begin with, in the context of openSUSE?)

I forgot to answer this: lack of support in the context of openSUSE means RESOLVED/INVALID

Well, that is the official statement to be on the save side. That's what the project cares about and pays attention to. But what works and what must work due the requirements of SUSE Linux Enterprise is what I care as a user about.

And in case you don't trust me, I'll locate the URL. [...] Here you have:

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2010-12/msg00145.html

A zypper dup across two versions is not supported, said by Kulow, so it holds. Even if it works. His words, not mine.

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Oh I remember, I tried to explain this to you too. Go, check the archive. ;)

I did. You told me to support it myself if I wanted it.

http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2010-12/msg00165.html

|> Dude, openSUSE is a community project. Show your commitment to test all |> these upgrade pathes and we're all happy to review your wiki document.

Your words.

Well, it never was officially supported. As said before that's the satement. Nevertheless we might do it and even encourage advanced user to do so too. But with a big, big warning and but. Here what counts is that it works (for me). And each user must balance between the available skills and the potential risk. Therefore Coolo's statement is on the safe side. While I might be more the gambler. This is all a question of personal experience and skills. Also the move from i586 to x86_64 isn't supported. It works too but the risk to cause trouble is much higher than in the case of an upgarde skipping one version in between. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 19:05, Lars Müller wrote:

Thanks.  If that's the case please file a defect at the Novell bugzilla at http://bugzilla.novell.com/ and reference the URL you quoted plus the URL of this thread, http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2011-12/msg00303.html too.

Will do Lars, thanks. The HTTP download keeps cutting out at ~900MiB so I'm trying the bittorrent download now. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org