* phanisvara das [02-09-12 10:20]:

systemsettings -> startup & shutdown -> session management -> on login

i always choose "start with an empty session," since otherwise funny things like you describe are bound to happen sooner or later. if there are app.s i start in almost every session, i rather write a script in ~/bin and call that when i need it.

After further thought, I believe the solution to the presented case would be to save a particular session and set session management to always start with that "saved" session and not "auto-start" anything. That would allay the unwanted multiple app problem and still start the session with the desired app. note: solution *only* for Roger's particular problem. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* phanisvara das [02-09-12 10:36]:

i thought of that, but couldn't figure out where or how to save such a session. looked around a little in forums & mailing list, but didn't found nothing.

According to the "help" file: Restore manually saved session Instead of restoring KDE to the state it was when you logged out last, it will be restored to a specific state that you have saved manually. If this option is checked, the start menu offers an additional item Leave → Save Session. I think it is only necessary to do this once and every ensuing start would begin with the "saved" session. No naming or saving to a particular location involved.

on the other hand, what i'm doing is pretty much the same, isn't it? if i wanted i could add this start script of mine to ~/.kde4/autostart. but then i don't always want everything to start, so calling one script isn't such a big deal.

For your needs, but Roger only presented *one* app and he always wanted to start with *that* one app. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2012-02-09 at 10:58 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* phanisvara das [02-09-12 10:36]:

...

i thought of that, but couldn't figure out where or how to save such a session. looked around a little in forums & mailing list, but didn't found nothing.

According to the "help" file:

Restore manually saved session

Instead of restoring KDE to the state it was when you logged out last, it will be restored to a specific state that you have saved manually.

If this option is checked, the start menu offers an additional item Leave → Save Session.

I think it is only necessary to do this once and every ensuing start would begin with the "saved" session. No naming or saving to a particular location involved.

I will surely investigate this. And report back what the solution winds up being. Yours sincerely, Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 roger.oberholtzer@ramboll.se ________________________________________ Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden www.rambollrst.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2012-02-09 at 10:29 -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* phanisvara das [02-09-12 10:20]:

...

systemsettings -> startup & shutdown -> session management -> on login

i always choose "start with an empty session," since otherwise funny things like you describe are bound to happen sooner or later. if there are app.s i start in almost every session, i rather write a script in ~/bin and call that when i need it.

After further thought, I believe the solution to the presented case would be to save a particular session and set session management to always start with that "saved" session and not "auto-start" anything. That would allay the unwanted multiple app problem and still start the session with the desired app.

We start three thingies in Autostart. In a perfect world, they never die. In reality, sh*t happens. So I would not want to have to guarantee that these thingies have all survived until the session is ended. That is why they are in the Autostart. In KDE 4.7 (on openUSE 11.2), this all acted differently. We did have the sessions restart. Open konsoles, for example, were restarted. However, the things we had in Autostart were not restarted as part of the session. I 'thought' it was the case that an application had to register with the window manager in some way to say that it wanted to be managed in the session. KDE apps, for example, do this in KDE. The problematic app (navit) perhaps is now different and is registering itself to be restarted? The change may very well be there, and not KDE. Or, the KDE in openSUSE 12.1 is more aggressive in adding applications to the session. But it would be a bug for it to add applications it started in the Autostart folder, as it would lead to what I see. I am leaning to navit itself being the culprit. But KDE is still in my sights...

note: solution *only* for Roger's particular problem.

-- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net

Yours sincerely, Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 roger.oberholtzer@ramboll.se ________________________________________ Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden www.rambollrst.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2012-02-09 at 19:19 +0100, Istvan Gabor wrote:

I think Patrick's right. There are programs that start automatically if have not been closed before logging out, eg Skype.

I thought these apps had to resister that they wanted to be restarted. They do this by communicating with the running session manager, not by placing files around the place. So, I guess Skype is doing this.

What happens if you remove this application from autostart, logs out without closing the program, and logis in? Does it start or not?

As many instances as were running when I logged out are started. When it is in the Autostart, I also get a new one each time. When it is not in the Autostart, I only get the existing ones. The problem is that if the program was not running on logout, I then get nothing. Which is not what I want. I will try the suggestion of saving/restarting a specific session. One advantage of the Autostart method is that I can easily set that up in an installation script. Defining a session will, I fear, now require manual setup where it was once automatic. Progress?

Istvan

Yours sincerely, Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 roger.oberholtzer@ramboll.se ________________________________________ Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden www.rambollrst.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

* Patrick Shanahan [02-10-12 14:53]:

* Roger Oberholtzer [02-10-12 02:51]:

...

On Thu, 2012-02-09 at 19:19 +0100, Istvan Gabor wrote:

...

I think Patrick's right. There are programs that start automatically if have not been closed before logging out, eg Skype.

I thought these apps had to resister that they wanted to be restarted. They do this by communicating with the running session manager, not by placing files around the place. So, I guess Skype is doing this.

...

What happens if you remove this application from autostart, logs out without closing the program, and logis in? Does it start or not?

As many instances as were running when I logged out are started. When it is in the Autostart, I also get a new one each time. When it is not in the Autostart, I only get the existing ones. The problem is that if the program was not running on logout, I then get nothing. Which is not what I want. I will try the suggestion of saving/restarting a specific session.

One advantage of the Autostart method is that I can easily set that up in an installation script. Defining a session will, I fear, now require manual setup where it was once automatic. Progress?

Looks to me that *the* solution would be to save a session with the required apps still running. Then subsequent sessions would begin with *only* the required apps and nothing extra that was running on the last session close/exit. The would also mean that you would *not* use "AutoStart".

I see that you have arrived at a solution and I agree that the occam's razor would tell you to "always start with an empty session" and use "AutoStart" for needed apps. gud luk, -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2012-02-10 at 23:27 +0100, Will Stephenson wrote:

*) Leave session management enabled *) Autostart your application with a .desktop file in ~/.kde4/Autostart *) Exclude it from session management by adding the binary name to the "Applications to be excluded from sessions" list in the session management config dialog.

This is what we have done. I have added all the applications that start in Autostart. It is unclear how the names should be added. Full path? Or must it match the way the app is listed in, say, 'ps'.

Although Roger doesn't say so, I assume that this worked out of the box for him until 12.1. Without looking at the navit code, I am pretty sure the KDE session management code did not change, so maybe navit stopped skipping session management (the KDE equivalent is KApplication::disableSessionManagement()) in the 12.1 version. 'Session' in an English locale should return the 'Session management' config dialog in either Kickoff or KRunner.

A quirk that I cannot explain yet is that if you add the app's .desktop file (must be a desktop file, no symlink to the binary) in the legacy (pre-XDG) autostart folder ~/.kde4/share/autostart, it is automatically excluded from session management. I'll inquire why this is, but I wouldn't rely on this behaviour, it's probably an appendix from when KDE 2 walked the earth.

Ahh. That could be the thing. I do not have desktop files in the Autostart. I have executable shell scripts. They could be desktop files, I think. If this works, I can get back to the original behavior. OOC, in the desktop config, the Autostart items are listed. Even scripts. It would be nice to be able to disable/enable these items in the menu. This does not works for scripts. Would it work for desktop entry files? -- Yours sincerely, Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 roger.oberholtzer@ramboll.se ________________________________________ Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden www.rambollrst.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2012-02-09 at 11:34 -0500, Dennis Gallien wrote:

On Thursday, February 09, 2012 09:46 AM Roger Oberholtzer wrote:

...

I have a strange thing happening on openSUSE 12.1 and KDE (original 12.1 version). What I describe did not happen in earlier openSUSE releases.

I have an application (navit - a non-KDE map application installed from OBS) that is started when the user logs in, via a script in $HOME/.kde4/Autostart

The application starts fine the first time one logs in. It runs until the user logs out, and I can see that it is indeed not running after the logout.

Next login, there are two navit apps running. Third login, and there are three. And so on. Each time, all the navits are killed on logout. They are all started new on login.

I suspect the session management part of KDE is involved. We have not turned sessions on/off. In fact, I do not see where to even control this anymore. Is there still a concept of restarting applications on login? If so, how can I disable this? If not, what might be going on here?

Did you try System Settings > Startup and Shutdown > Session Management > Start with an empty session?

That is what I want. Silly me. Not looking in the place related to system start and stop, when what I want is NOT related to that, but is related to logging in and out. Which have little to do with starting and stopping the system... In the KDE desktop configure program, I searched for 'session', and nothing was found. Yours sincerely, Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Office: Int +46 10-615 60 20 Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696 roger.oberholtzer@ramboll.se ________________________________________ Ramböll Sverige AB Krukmakargatan 21 P.O. Box 17009 SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden www.rambollrst.se -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org