On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Mark Misulich wrote:

Kevin Dupuy wrote:

...

On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 17:01 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...

OAKLAND, California -- Jurors found Linux programmer Hans Reiser guilty of first degree murder on Monday, concluding he killed his estranged wife in 2006. The verdict followed a nearly six-month trial and nearly three days of deliberation

The 44-year-old developer of the ReiserFS filesystem, sat quietly as a clerk for Alameda County Superior Court Judge Larry Goodman read the verdict. Reiser faces a mandatory sentence of 25 years to life in prison. Wearing the same dark coat he's worn for months, the defendant was immediately removed from the courtroom by one of four bailiffs watching over the courtroom. He asked out loud if he could speak with his attorney.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/04/reiser-guilty-o.html

But he doesn't have anything to do with ReiserFS development anymore does he? (Well, I mean obviously not now, but before) Are they still getting, like, work done without him?

When Vanguard crashed in the everglades, they bought AirTran and changed their name to AirTran. Without that, they would have been finished.

Mark

So, NamesysFS it is then... Now can we have version 4? -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Philipp Thomas wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:33:45 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...

So, NamesysFS it is then... Now can we have version 4?

AFAIK Namesys is Hans Reiser's company. If he goes to prison and doesn't put someone in place to manage Namesys and get the funds development needs, Reiser4 is dead.

The past paragraph in the Wikipedia's entry (updated 29 April) for Hans Reiser: Future of ReiserFS Following his arrest, a number of people in the Free Software community http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_community expressed concern over the future of Reiser's filesystem (ReiserFS). For example, a Slashdot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot thread on the subject of his arrest garnered over 1600 comments, significant numbers of which discussed the future of the filesystem.^[47] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_reiser#cite_note-software-reaction-46 However, the employees of Namesys assured that they will continue to work and that Reiser's arrest doesn't slow down the software development in the immediate future. They confirmed that if the case expands over a longer time, they will seek solutions to ensure the long-term future of Namesys.^[48] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_reiser#cite_note-47 In order to afford increasing legal fees, it was announced on December 21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_21, 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006 that Hans Reiser was going to sell his company.^[49] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_reiser#cite_note-48 As of 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_of_2008, Namesys has not been sold. Ciao. -- If you want to know what a man is like, take a look at how he treats his inferiors not his equals. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:13:53 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:

isn't this free software? anybody can takeover...

And this has happened how often? Where would for instance be Modzilla or Openoffice.org be without companies paying programmers to work on it? I still remember YaST1, where quite a few people said they'd continue to work on it when SuSE stopped supporting it and nothing happened. Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

It has happened often enough, but you're right, it is a problem for large projects. Anyway, there are a few other journaling file systems out there - ReiserFS4 isn't exactly alone.

Why exactly are some of us so attached to Reiser3 and hoping for Reiser4? There are other efficient journaling fs out there... For me it is because I don't have to worry about a 3 hour startup cycle aver 22 restarts or whatever the timeout is with ext3. That is pretty much my only reason for using Reiser3. Hasn't this been... "fixed"... for ext in openSUSE11.0 so that you do not get a surprise 3 hour restart? If ext doesn't do the automatic fsck thing is there anything else really holding the vast majority of us to Reiser? OK, some need/want Reiser3 or 4 for some very specific needs, but... aren't they a rare few? Just wondering (as a long term and dedicated Reiser3 FS user) how much of a "real" issue it would be if the Reiser FS were to die off.... C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton wrote:

Why exactly are some of us so attached to Reiser3 and hoping for Reiser4? There are other efficient journaling fs out there...

I use it because I have millions of files in a directory and hundreds of such directories. ext2 used to require artificial extra levels of directory hierarchy to cope with such things and needed planning of inodes etc. Oh, and I haven't [ yest :( ] been bitten by reiser although I know some people have. I don't know whether the current ext3 behaves any better, or for that matter any other filesystem. I'll change when I need to. Cheers, Dave PS It's possible to write code in prison isn't it? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton wrote:

Hmmm I wish ZFS was available as a Linux FS (without being forced to use fuse because of wonky licensing).

Amen! /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Dave Howorth wrote:

Clayton wrote:

...

Why exactly are some of us so attached to Reiser3 and hoping for Reiser4? There are other efficient journaling fs out there...

I use it because I have millions of files in a directory and hundreds of such directories.

I only have maybe 100K files per directory, and I use jfs. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Damon Register a écrit :

...

PS It's possible to write code in prison isn't it? Of course it is. I do it every day :-) Sorry, I couldn't resist an opening like that.

:-) seriously, it's extremely difficult. I just have an enquiry from a french prisonner, they can't have any bit of communication from a computer to an other, have to buy thing only from authorized dealer, don't even have the right to use magazine's dvds and as most dealers don't know about opensource and I can't send a free dvd, I don't know how to make the free software enter the jails... jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Clayton wrote:

Why exactly are some of us so attached to Reiser3 and hoping for Reiser4? There are other efficient journaling fs out there...

For me it is because I don't have to worry about a 3 hour startup cycle aver 22 restarts or whatever the timeout is with ext3. That is pretty much my only reason for using Reiser3.

That's your only reason? I have other reasons, mainly performance. I just did a quick and dirty "what the heck" filesystem performance test on my OS10.3 workstation at home, where I use reiserfs, but also have ext3 and xfs test partitions. The test simply consisted of timing the copy of a dvd image to another partition. The results are: copy to ext3: real 7m52.656s user 0m0.268s sys 0m20.870s copy to xfs: real 3m40.490s user 0m0.213s sys 0m12.132s copy to reiser: real 3m23.966s user 0m0.226s sys 0m19.417s bleh, ext3 took over twice as long as either reiser or xfs. Joe

Hasn't this been... "fixed"... for ext in openSUSE11.0 so that you do not get a surprise 3 hour restart?

If ext doesn't do the automatic fsck thing is there anything else really holding the vast majority of us to Reiser? OK, some need/want Reiser3 or 4 for some very specific needs, but... aren't they a rare few?

Just wondering (as a long term and dedicated Reiser3 FS user) how much of a "real" issue it would be if the Reiser FS were to die off....

C.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

The Tuesday 2008-04-29 at 10:40 -0700, Sloan wrote:

...

That's your only reason? I have other reasons, mainly performance. I just did a quick and dirty "what the heck" filesystem performance test on my OS10.3 workstation at home, where I use reiserfs, but also have ext3 and xfs test partitions.

...

The test simply consisted of timing the copy of a dvd image to another partition.

...

...

bleh, ext3 took over twice as long as either reiser or xfs.

Now do the test copying 100.000 files of 200 bytes, and you will see a large difference ;-)

Oh sure, that's the strength of reiser... I just didn't realize it blew away ext3 that badly on big files too. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 02:51:53PM -0700, John Andersen wrote:

ZDNet has an article on this up now:

Reiser FS: The open source file system fallout

Posted by Jason Perlow

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8647

My personal opinion based solely on my own experience is that Reiserfs is a good system that is highly reliable, but is likely to disappear mostly because Hans was a social ass.

Please be aware that the old reiserfs is mostly maintained outside of Namesys. Only reiserfs4 is likely never going to happen... Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Sloan wrote:

Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

Please be aware that the old reiserfs is mostly maintained outside of Namesys. Only reiserfs4 is likely never going to happen...

Well, perhaps if the reiser4 project is taken over by someone with good people skills...

Since Suse was the distro that made Reiserfs more of a standard than any other, it would seem logical for Opensuse / Novell to fork it and finish it, even if it meant hiring the remaining developers. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sam Clemens wrote:

Sloan wrote:

...

Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

Please be aware that the old reiserfs is mostly maintained outside of Namesys. Only reiserfs4 is likely never going to happen...

Well, perhaps if the reiser4 project is taken over by someone with good people skills...

Like this guy? http://www.wvah.com/programs/groundedforlife/richardriehle.jpg

Nah he was a little creep in "Glory"... Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 23:55 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 02:51:53PM -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...

ZDNet has an article on this up now:

Reiser FS: The open source file system fallout

Posted by Jason Perlow

http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8647

My personal opinion based solely on my own experience is that Reiserfs is a good system that is highly reliable, but is likely to disappear mostly because Hans was a social ass.

Please be aware that the old reiserfs is mostly maintained outside of Namesys. Only reiserfs4 is likely never going to happen...

Ciao, Marcus From what little I know of the plans, nothing of reiserfs4 interested me. Ext3 was tried on 3 systems here at home, and felt sluggish. It also seemed to cause problems with Zoneminder recording video alarms. New installs on reiser3 cured all problems, so I sure hope it remains a viable system. As mature as it is, I think that should be possible... unless some "clever" programmer starts placing "hooks" into his ap for a specific file system. (Wasn't that part of the plan for the new rfs4?)

Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sloan wrote:

Clayton wrote:

...

Why exactly are some of us so attached to Reiser3 and hoping for Reiser4? There are other efficient journaling fs out there...

For me it is because I don't have to worry about a 3 hour startup cycle aver 22 restarts or whatever the timeout is with ext3. That is pretty much my only reason for using Reiser3.

That's your only reason? I have other reasons, mainly performance. I just did a quick and dirty "what the heck" filesystem performance test on my OS10.3 workstation at home, where I use reiserfs, but also have ext3 and xfs test partitions.

The test simply consisted of timing the copy of a dvd image to another partition.

The results are:

copy to ext3: real 7m52.656s user 0m0.268s sys 0m20.870s

copy to xfs: real 3m40.490s user 0m0.213s sys 0m12.132s

copy to reiser: real 3m23.966s user 0m0.226s sys 0m19.417s

bleh, ext3 took over twice as long as either reiser or xfs.

Joe

Confirms my gut feel about the performance of the one (and probably only ever) ext3 partition which I set up as a bit of an experiment. - -- ============================================================================== I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone. Bjarne Stroustrup ============================================================================== -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIGCjWasN0sSnLmgIRAhvXAJsHvbyB/lpgxjGnkpm4UUxebleXDQCfcxGx sjkwQ7bYQm1OaPD4JenziTw= =dk+S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Sloan wrote:

G T Smith wrote:

...

Sloan wrote:

...

bleh, ext3 took over twice as long as either reiser or xfs.

Confirms my gut feel about the performance of the one (and probably only ever) ext3 partition which I set up as a bit of an experiment.

So, I continue with reiser 3, but looking down the road, reiser 4 seems a long shot at this point. I suppose it's possible that ext4 could turn out well. However Btrfs from oracle looks even more interesting to me -

http://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page

Its my understanding that Reiserfs4's greatest improvements were to be in the area of file tagging so that you could apply virtually unlimited characteristics and attributes to files so they could be found more easily. This could be done automatically by software or manually. This allowed you to find files without the need of reading the entire directory, let alone the entire drive. Also improvements to the journaling of actual data instead of the Metadata-only journaling that Reiser 3 has. The bigger hard drives get, (and the more of them there are), the more this will become necessary. Vista promised to do this, but with tags were external (in another file), but ultimately never delivered. Right now, the world pretty much relies on "a place for everything, and everything in its place", with a secondary reliance on file type. This reliance on directory structures can be viewed as crutch needed by people; its how we think. But its not how disk drives actually work at the physical level. File type is closer to what we actually want, so that we don't try to listen to our pictures, or print out our executables. My understanding was that Reiserfs4 was going to simulate directory structures as simply one more attribute of a file, primarily for legacy sake. I'm not seeing any of those features in Btrfs. -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2008-04-29 at 10:23 +0200, jdd sur free wrote:

Per Jessen a écrit :

...

It has happened often enough, but you're right, it is a problem for large projects. Anyway, there are a few other journaling file systems out there - ReiserFS4 isn't exactly alone.

reiser *was* supported by suse. Surprisingly enough, a file system is *not* a large project, reiser began alone... as did Linus :-))

It is still supported by suse. It is simply not the default filesystem on opensuse.

all the problem is need. is the reiser 4 was so much needed, people would have worked on it, even forking from reiser if necessary.

but when suse stopped supporting reiser, I understood reiserfs had some problems, reiser 4 was due much before the reiser personal problems and never went out, probably for some good reason (I'mnot able to understand)

R4 is quite ambitious. It is plugin based, for instance. One of the goals is to store database objects directly on the filesystem, instead of having a complex database engine storing small chunks in a very large file or even a raw partition. Can you imagine the nightmare of a filesystem check/repair with plugins in the way? Perhaps such an advance needs a genius behind. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIFvn0tTMYHG2NR9URAoX6AJ4wHN6Gnd0d+37Sqy3sLg8Sto96bQCfdDhW Bor7IaKhPdw0p+sr+wQyF4w= =6F8O -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2008-04-29 at 14:02 +0200, Philipp Thomas wrote:

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:35:32 +0200 (CEST), Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Can you imagine the nightmare of a filesystem check/repair with plugins in the way?

And what a support nightmare it would be to have a metadata format that changes depending on the plugins?

I can only guess. But it would be a very interesting experiment, at least. It could be a complete failure or astounding success... I'd like to see it someday, and I hope it succeeds. The reiserfs was also problematic on the beginning, it was so different... when version 3 crashes and breaks, it does so royally. It happened to me. I reinstalled a suse 7.3 recently, had a crash somehow, and the reiserfs there was unrepairable by the tools on 7.3; but the tools in 10.3 cleared it in seconds. So they made progress. I would expect similar things with version 4. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIFy/jtTMYHG2NR9URAngeAKCQTm659BjzHEmo+vt5gb2kEVevuwCfWfSV o8vUMbI8+iqWfvnof8FSMuM= =zUQ2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sloan a écrit :

jdd sur free wrote:

...

reiser *was* supported by suse.

You misspelled "is supported" - I've done a boatload of 10.3 installs on reiser, by the book.

last time we had a reiser dev online, it was to state that he won't now continue. Novell gives security support on reiser 3, what is probably no work at all, the file system being so old now :-) and yes, you can use it, but I don't know what will be the result on 64 bits machine or terabytes hard drive jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

and yes, you can use it, but I don't know what will be the result on 64 bits machine or terabytes hard drive

I'm running an AMD 64 with a 1 TB drive (plus other physical drives) Reiser formatted... a 4GB swap partition, a 20GB root and the rest is a single partition mounted on /home... and no problems at all with Reiser. C -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

----- Original Message ----- From: "jdd sur free" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [opensuse] Well, there goes any hope for ReiserFS 4.... Sloan a écrit :

jdd sur free wrote:

...

...

reiser *was* supported by suse.

You misspelled "is supported" - I've done a boatload of 10.3 installs on reiser, by the book.

last time we had a reiser dev online, it was to state that he won't now continue.

Novell gives security support on reiser 3, what is probably no work at all, the file system being so old now :-)

and yes, you can use it, but I don't know what will be the result on 64 bits machine or terabytes hard drive

I have several production machines running 64bit opensuse 10.0 to 10.3, all using reiser3, all with filesystems well over 1TB, some hardware scsi raid, some hardware sata raid, many purely software raid on sata. Some raid5, most raid10, and a few raid0. Heavy multi user small transaction random access database usage all day every day and periodic rsyncs of all the data. They all work fine. I also have 32 bit and under 1TB reiser3 boxes and they work fine too of course but the question was about 64bit and/or terabyte. The answer is neither of those factors are anything to be afraid of. Brian K. White brian@aljex.com http://www.myspace.com/KEYofR +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++. filePro BBx Linux SCO FreeBSD #callahans Satriani Filk! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Kevin Dupuy wrote:

I remember reading that starting with SUSE Linux Enterprise 11, Ext3 will be the default.

That wouldn't surprise me - still, I can't imagine they would stop supporting reiser - and since it blows ext3 out of the water on any tests I've been able to come up with, I can't imagine switching to ext3. Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 09:28:32AM +0100, peter nikolic wrote:

On Wednesday 30 April 2008, Sloan wrote:

...

Kevin Dupuy wrote:

...

I remember reading that starting with SUSE Linux Enterprise 11, Ext3 will be the default.

That wouldn't surprise me - still, I can't imagine they would stop supporting reiser - and since it blows ext3 out of the water on any tests I've been able to come up with, I can't imagine switching to ext3.

Joe

Dont speak too soon you never know when some PC donkey might turn around and say since Mr Reiser in banged up (on very dodgy eveidence it has to be said ) we can no longer supply Reiserfs on suse you watch ..

Since reiser3 has not been maintained by Hans nor Namesys for _years_ now, I doubt there will be changes. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 18:33 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...

So, NamesysFS it is then... Now can we have version 4?

Not good enough? How about: rjfs? (-: Renamed-Journaling-File-System ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Hans Witvliet wrote:

On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 18:33 -0700, John Andersen wrote:

...

So, NamesysFS it is then... Now can we have version 4?

Not good enough?

How about: rjfs? (-: Renamed-Journaling-File-System ;-)

Or perhaps F2jfs. ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Monday 28 April 2008 18:33, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Mark Misulich

...

...

When Vanguard crashed in the everglades, they bought AirTran and changed their name to AirTran. Without that, they would have been finished.

Mark

So, NamesysFS it is then...

Or, perhaps, one of these:

- DRFS — death row file system - PKFS — psycho killer file system - BHFS — big house file system - SQFS — San Quentin file system - XCFS — ex-con file system (eventually)

RRS

Or, WKFS - Wife killer file system -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Randall R Schulz wrote:

On Monday 28 April 2008 18:33, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Mark Misulich

...

...

When Vanguard crashed in the everglades, they bought AirTran and changed their name to AirTran. Without that, they would have been finished.

Mark

So, NamesysFS it is then...

Or, perhaps, one of these:

- DRFS — death row file system - PKFS — psycho killer file system - BHFS — big house file system - SQFS — San Quentin file system - XCFS — ex-con file system (eventually)

RRS

Or IDDIFS - I didn't do it file system ;-) -- Use OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

John Andersen wrote:

So, NamesysFS it is then... Now can we have version 4?

Ah, NFS for short? great idea.... Joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

At 14:32:17 on Tuesday Tuesday 29 April 2008, martin glazer wrote:

Can't he still write code from his prison cell?

He can indeed, if he has the energy to concentrate in the prison environment, and after the work that the prison will require of him. He will be fortunate if they make him administrator of the institution's LAN etc. But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and the only concern expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS. THAT is the depressing part of it.

--- Mark Misulich wrote:

...

Kevin Dupuy wrote:

...

On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 17:01 -0700, John Andersen

wrote:

...

...

OAKLAND, California -- Jurors found Linux

programmer Hans Reiser

...

...

guilty of first degree murder on Monday,

concluding he killed his

...

...

estranged wife in 2006. The verdict followed a

nearly six-month trial

...

...

and nearly three days of deliberation

The 44-year-old developer of the ReiserFS

filesystem, sat quietly as a

...

...

clerk for Alameda County Superior Court Judge

Larry Goodman read the

...

...

verdict. Reiser faces a mandatory sentence of 25

years to life in

...

...

prison. Wearing the same dark coat he's worn for

months, the defendant

...

...

was immediately removed from the courtroom by one

of four bailiffs

...

...

watching over the courtroom. He asked out loud if

he could speak with

...

...

his attorney.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/04/reiser-guilty-o.html

...

...

But he doesn't have anything to do with ReiserFS

development anymore

...

does he? (Well, I mean obviously not now, but

before) Are they still

...

getting, like, work done without him?

When Vanguard crashed in the everglades, they bought AirTran and changed their name to AirTran. Without that, they would have been finished.

Mark -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

jdd sur free wrote:

Stan Goodman a écrit :

...

But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and the only concern expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS.

THAT is the depressing part of it.

this is the only part is relevant to *this* forum. we don't either have to know why his wife got killed...

Considering that she hasn't been found I cannot see how anyone can claim that she was killed..... Ciao. -- If you want to know what a man is like, take a look at how he treats his inferiors not his equals. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Lew Wolfgang wrote:

Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Considering that she hasn't been found I cannot see how anyone can claim that she was killed.....

Did you read a description of the trial, Basil?

Yes I did.

A jury was completely convinced

Just like thousands of earlier juries have been convinced and convicted thousands of innocent people simply because the accused didn't have competent defence lawyers.

and it sounds as if Hans did an excellent job of convicting himself when he took the stand.

I just wonder how any one of us would perform if placed in the same situation. The whole case is based on circumstantial evidence and not concrete facts. Ciao. -- If you want to know what a man is like, take a look at how he treats his inferiors not his equals. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin wrote:

Lew Wolfgang wrote:

...

Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Considering that she hasn't been found I cannot see how anyone can claim that she was killed.....

Did you read a description of the trial, Basil?

Yes I did.

...

A jury was completely convinced

Just like thousands of earlier juries have been convinced and convicted thousands of innocent people simply because the accused didn't have competent defence lawyers.

...

and it sounds as if Hans did an excellent job of convicting himself when he took the stand.

I just wonder how any one of us would perform if placed in the same situation.

The whole case is based on circumstantial evidence and not concrete facts.

Ciao.

I agree Basil. There is nothing curious about the blood on the sleeping bag or the pillar at home, and everybody takes their passenger seat out on occasions and hoses down the inside of the car. Shoot, I have a couple of police murder investigation books inside my car too. None of that means I killed her..... -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Sam Clemens wrote:

And lets not forget, it's always more comfortable to sleep on the metal body structures underneath the back seat than to sleep on the rear bench seat itself....

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/03/reiser-fumbling.html He remove and disposed of the FRONT seat (passenger side), not the back seat. Note how short the post gets when you trim them Sam? ;-) Should this not go to the OT List? -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Sam Clemens wrote:

David C. Rankin wrote:

...

I agree Basil. There is nothing curious about the blood on the sleeping bag or the pillar at home, and everybody takes their passenger seat out on occasions and hoses down the inside of the car. Shoot, I have a couple of police murder investigation books inside my car too. None of that means I killed her.....

And lets not forget, it's always more comfortable to sleep on the metal body structures underneath the back seat than to sleep on the rear bench seat itself....

Reiser probably would have been better off not taking the stand.

His lawyer should be found guilty of malpractice, unless he has several CYA letter advising Reiser not to do it and Reiser refused his advise. Reiser testifying was the stupid thing that could have happened. I can't believe any lawyer (well I can, there as many bad attorneys as there are bad docs), knowing how Reiser would testify, would allow those kind of answers to be given in court. If the lawyer didn't know before hand what Reisers answers would be, then that is malpractice again. I sure hope he papered his file after strongly advising Reiser against testifying. -- David C. Rankin, J.D., P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin wrote:

Sam Clemens wrote:

...

David C. Rankin wrote:

...

I agree Basil. There is nothing curious about the blood on the sleeping bag or the pillar at home, and everybody takes their passenger seat out on occasions and hoses down the inside of the car. Shoot, I have a couple of police murder investigation books inside my car too. None of that means I killed her.....

And lets not forget, it's always more comfortable to sleep on the metal body structures underneath the back seat than to sleep on the rear bench seat itself....

Reiser probably would have been better off not taking the stand.

His lawyer should be found guilty of malpractice, unless he has several CYA letter advising Reiser not to do it and Reiser refused his advise. Reiser testifying was the stupid thing that could have happened. I can't believe any lawyer (well I can, there as many bad attorneys as there are bad docs), knowing how Reiser would testify, would allow those kind of answers to be given in court. If the lawyer didn't know before hand what Reisers answers would be, then that is malpractice again.

I sure hope he papered his file after strongly advising Reiser against testifying.

Hi David, I know you are an attorney. Good thing. I have good friends who are too. But in this case I understand Resier was totally belligerent with his own attorney, interrupted him, argued with him, constantly took him to task for "not remembering things" (my words but summary of what I read he did). How do you deal with a client like that? Won't listen. Won't shut up. He would have been better off getting off the case. What ever the situation, he couldn't control his client. Who didn't know he was a loose cannon? What is the old saying, The man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client. Pitiful thing though. Convicted with little evidence. Sort of like the "what else could have happened" scenario. Her murderous boyfriend (who admitted to killing 6 people) could have done it. Hans could have done it. Who knows. No doubt he is a brilliant computer scientist, people skills not withstanding. It would be interesting at some point to find out what really happened. We may never know. Pity for her and her kids. JF -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

David C. Rankin wrote:

Jim Flanagan wrote:

...

David C. Rankin wrote:

However, in the criminal field, especially where the lawyer is appointed by the court to represent a defendant, it is not uncommon for the court to require the lawyer to continue representation even though there isn't any effective communication between then. The court would have had the opportunity to assess Reiser's attitude and may very well have come to the conclusion that with Reiser's attitude and personality, no other lawyer would be able to do it any differently. In that case, the court will proceed to trial with counsel pretty much stuck trying the case with a crazy client.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sounds like a windows App -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:50:40 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

thousands of innocent people simply because the accused didn't have competent defence lawyers.

What good is a competent lawyer when his client is such a prima donna as Hans Reiser is and ignores the lawyer's advice to keep his mouth shut? Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 10:30:59 +0200, Cornelius Franken wrote:

What is the difference between a lawyer and a bucket full of sh!t?

That'll get you lots of friends on this list :( [top post cut out] How about learning how to edit mails before posting such nonsense? Go somewhere else for trolling. PLUNK! Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andersen" To: "Basil Chupin" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [opensuse] Well, there goes any hope for ReiserFS 4....

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

I just wonder how any one of us would perform if placed in the same situation.

I wonder how many of us have EVER thrown away the front passenger side car seat, for ANY reason. Even if sleeping in the car, people stash it somewhere.

Circumstantial evidence, if compelling enough, is still sufficient, every where in the world.

Ahh, so, being different, or doing things you wouldn't do or for reasons you don't find reasonable, is now just cause for persecution? Great. Well in reality it always was. It never should be and we ("civilized" countries) make noises like we don't do that any more, but we do. One time I was watching one of those reality cop shows and they busted in and gave this kid a ridiculous hard time basically because he had lot's of small plastic ziplock bags. Wow, I have lots of small plastic ziplock bags! I must be a crack dealer! Ah but I'm not a black teenager in a poor neighborhood. -- Brian K. White brian@aljex.com http://www.myspace.com/KEYofR +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++. filePro BBx Linux SCO FreeBSD #callahans Satriani Filk! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 23:23 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

jdd sur free wrote:

...

Stan Goodman a écrit :

...

But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and the only concern expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS.

THAT is the depressing part of it.

this is the only part is relevant to *this* forum. we don't either have to know why his wife got killed...

Considering that she hasn't been found I cannot see how anyone can claim that she was killed.....

They haven't found Jimmy Hoffa either. Lack of a body is not proof one way or the other. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Mike McMullin wrote:

On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 23:23 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

jdd sur free wrote:

...

Stan Goodman a écrit :

...

But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and the only concern expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS.

THAT is the depressing part of it.

this is the only part is relevant to *this* forum. we don't either have to know why his wife got killed...

Considering that she hasn't been found I cannot see how anyone can claim that she was killed.....

They haven't found Jimmy Hoffa either. Lack of a body is not proof one way or the other.

The assumption you are stating is that Hoffa's "disappearance" is equivalent to him being murdered and his body somehow disposed of and never to be found. Anyway, has anyone been charged and convicted of causing Hoffa's "disappearance"? Ciao. -- If you want to know what a man is like, take a look at how he treats his inferiors not his equals. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 17:01 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

Mike McMullin wrote:

...

On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 23:23 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

jdd sur free wrote:

...

Stan Goodman a écrit :

...

But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and the only concern expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS.

THAT is the depressing part of it.

this is the only part is relevant to *this* forum. we don't either have to know why his wife got killed...

Considering that she hasn't been found I cannot see how anyone can claim that she was killed.....

They haven't found Jimmy Hoffa either. Lack of a body is not proof one way or the other.

The assumption you are stating is that Hoffa's "disappearance" is equivalent to him being murdered and his body somehow disposed of and never to be found. Anyway, has anyone been charged and convicted of causing Hoffa's "disappearance"?

No one has been charged, the FBI's working theory, last I heard, was that this was mob related. (FYI, this is an infamous case from a few decades ago.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Stop cluttering other people mail box with stories which have nothing to do with openSuSE!!! On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 14:34 -0400, Sam Clemens wrote:

Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Mike McMullin wrote:

...

On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 23:23 +1000, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

jdd sur free wrote:

...

Stan Goodman a écrit :

...

But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and the only concern expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS.

THAT is the depressing part of it.

this is the only part is relevant to *this* forum. we don't either have to know why his wife got killed...

Considering that she hasn't been found I cannot see how anyone can claim that she was killed.....

They haven't found Jimmy Hoffa either. Lack of a body is not proof one way or the other.

The assumption you are stating is that Hoffa's "disappearance" is equivalent to him being murdered and his body somehow disposed of and never to be found. Anyway, has anyone been charged and convicted of causing Hoffa's "disappearance"?

No, but not for lack of trying.

Just two years ago, the county sherrif literally tore a house apart looking for blood residue that they could trace to Hoffa. It's probably the biggest unsolved crime in Detroit history.

Having a body reinforces the case.

In the Hoffa case, they don't even have any suspects.

The night he disappeared, my parents happened to be at the same restaurant as where Hoffa was last seen in public. There was never any commotion while he was there. My guess is that somehow, his limo driver was replaced, or possibly detained while another similar car (same make, model, year, and color) was brought in, and thus he literally walked up to and volountarily climbed into his own kidnapping vehicle, believing everything to be normal.

As I understand it, no useful information was ever obtained from his normal driver.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

At 16:23:42 on Tuesday Tuesday 29 April 2008, Basil Chupin wrote:

jdd sur free wrote:

...

Stan Goodman a écrit :

...

But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and the only concern expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS.

THAT is the depressing part of it.

this is the only part is relevant to *this* forum. we don't either have to know why his wife got killed...

Considering that she hasn't been found I cannot see how anyone can claim that she was killed.....

The court didn't have much trouble, probably because traces of her blood were found in his car. -- Stan Goodman Qiryat Tiv'on Israel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin wrote:

Stan Goodman wrote:

...

At 16:23:42 on Tuesday Tuesday 29 April 2008, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

jdd sur free wrote:

...

Stan Goodman a écrit :

...

But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and the only concern expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS.

THAT is the depressing part of it.

this is the only part is relevant to *this* forum. we don't either have to know why his wife got killed...

Considering that she hasn't been found I cannot see how anyone can claim that she was killed.....

The court didn't have much trouble, probably because traces of her blood were found in his car.

No, on a bag which was inside his car (according to what I read), quite a different slant to what you have implied - which, BTW, is exactly why circumstantial evidence is a lot of codswallop because it is nothing but hearsay and interpretation of what what someone thinks they may have seen or heard or imagined.

Hearsay and circumstantial evidence are quite different. For one, circumstantial evidence is....evidence (evidence of what is a matter of opinion) and admissable in court, whereas hearsay is not, because it is not evidence of any sort. I can claim that you told me something..regardless of whether you said it or not. Your footprint near a crime scene is evidence that you were there... but not in itself conclusive of anything other than at some point in time, your path through life went near the place where a crime was committed. Circumstantial evidence is a piece of a puzzle. Hearsay is a novel. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Your footprint near a crime scene is evidence that you were there... but not in itself conclusive of anything other than at some point in time, your path through life went near the place where a crime was committed.

Not only doesn't my footprint prove that I was ever there, it doesn't even prove that my shoe was ever there. It proves only that they observed a pattern in the ground that matches my shoe. It proves nothing of how it got there or if the pattern might not exactly match any other shoes as well as mine or if it was created artificially from a casting taken from my shoe etc.. -- Brian K. White brian@aljex.com http://www.myspace.com/KEYofR +++++[>+++[>+++++>+++++++<<-]<-]>>+.>.+++++.+++++++.-.[>+<---]>++. filePro BBx Linux SCO FreeBSD #callahans Satriani Filk! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:03 AM, Stan Goodman wrote:

But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and the only concern expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS.

How much concern should we express for a murderer? -- ----------JSA--------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

He would probally say that he NEEDS to fix the file system. --- Randall R Schulz wrote:

...

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 5:03 AM, Stan Goodman

wrote:

...

But the remarkable thing is that the man now has at least 25 years of incarceration to look forward to, under circumstances that at the very best will be exceedingly trying, and

On Tuesday 29 April 2008 13:28, John Andersen wrote: the only concern

...

...

expressed here is "what will happen now to ReiserFS.

How much concern should we express for a murderer?

What would Jesus say?

RRS -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org