Re: [S.u.S.E. Linux] EArlier problems - some solutions; still questions abound
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--------------1F337B1C5A13B8E6DFB8F576 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, I have been reading this list for only a few days, and I have found it extremely helpful and informative. Some observations and comments for both the SuSE techs/developers and the users: 1. I am happy overall with SuSE, and I have a subscription. I love the tonnage of applications, and the fact that you include so many different window managers into the distribution. I have recommened your distribution to others who have purchased and then thanked me for the recommendation. 2. I also have a subscription to Slackware. I am an old Slacker, since around Linux kernel .95 or something. 3. There is no perfect installation program, and where Linux is concerned, ALL distributions have some glaring installation problems. 4. Many of us have to deal with more than one operating system, and more than one Linux distribution. In my own personal research I have found that with Linux distributions, each distribution has its own set of strengths and weaknesses, which has caused me to assign my own little 'matrix' regarding distributions. SuSE comes in as my overall favorite because it can successfully fulfil two important roles for *me*: User Workstation, and Dialup Router. Slackware fulfils my requirements only for Server and Dialup Router. Slackware is great if you need an extremely small image size, such as a 50mb Linux-bootable partition for simply managing LILO! (I have 3 hard disks in my system and am triple boot. One 50mb bootable partition on my first SCSI drive is great for managing LILO, and for fixing my other Linux-bootable drive when I screw it up with experiments.) As far as other distributions are concerned, Caldera is nice, but does not have the tonnage of apps that SuSE has. RedHat - nice folks and we have them to thank for the RPM. We'll see what their latest release is like. I have a friend who is new to Linux and could not get their 5.0 product to install, yet he could get SuSE to install. 5. To SuSE techs/developers: Your product is rich in engineering. It is a classic case of "German engineering" - a compliment. However, there is much that needs to be simplified. In some cases, there is overkill and things are labyrinthian, but not so much that after digging one can figure out what is being done and for what reason. I haven't see a problem yet that you guys haven't been able to figure out and fix. However, this is time consuming. 6. While it is true that Yast is a very robust and thorough package management system, you have to realize that most of us do not trust automation unless it is something we have written ourselves! So our expectations are high for this product. I look at your startup/init scripts and I see that a lot of good work has gone into them. However, I believe that most of us have little enough time to learn the depths of Yast or the startup system. 7. I like the concept of the /etc/rc.config - good overall, but it has areas that need improvement. 8. Yast needs some improvements to really become the tool you want it to be. Some suggestions include: Re-do the front menu. I would like to see something like this: o Help o Index of all packages currently installed (should not require CD - this should be able to show me what I have on my system, rev levels etc.) o Choose Install packages - this should not require a CD - the list should be available, then prompt for the appropriate CD - this could combine the Update Packages function. o User Admin - this should be on the front menu o System Admin o Change Configuration File - I didn't initially realize how important this file is - it needs to be out front o Pre-Install: Lang / keymap / Install Source - Yast should guide into this from Choose Install packages o Hard Disk: Partition Mgmt / Target Partition - Yast should guide user here if not completed o Installation to a directory o Exit That, and "fixing" the installer so that all packages are installed BEFORE a reboot would be great! Yours is the only distribution that requires a reboot to finish the software load. Not a good idea, even if it *seems* to work. :) Now from what I have seen of the previous comments your techs and devlopers have posted, your initial reaction will be to dismiss my comments as "some inexperienced user - he just doesn't know Yast" . Exactly. I don't, and I shouldn't have to. But I shouldn't have to try and figure out what you guys are doing so I can "fix" around it either. I have a mantra for all things computing: SIMPLIFY! Don't get hung up on my criticisms, be willing to examine them in detail. Your distribution is probably in the best position to make the biggest impact on the desktop. What would really be a nice enhancement is to have a feature that installs a very small "just enough Unix to start and run the machine" image. For example, in Slackware, I can select the A, AP, and N disk sets and create a fully functional Linux system on a 50mb partition. Perhaps some guidance in your docs or in Yast would be enough. Perhaps you can create a "User Image" , "Server Image" , "Router Image" i.e image personalities for different roles. "Have a lot of fun!" :) (And you know, the groan you just gave is exactly what I do when I see that!) -tks- --------------1F337B1C5A13B8E6DFB8F576 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> Folks, I have been reading this list for only a few days, and I have found it extremely helpful and informative. Some observations and comments for both the SuSE techs/developers and the users: 1. I am happy overall with SuSE, and I have a subscription. I love the tonnage of applications, and the fact that you include so many different window managers into the distribution. I have recommened your distribution to others who have purchased and then thanked me for the recommendation. 2. I also have a subscription to Slackware. I am an old Slacker, since around Linux kernel .95 or something. 3. There is no perfect installation program, and where Linux is concerned, ALL distributions have some glaring installation problems. 4. Many of us have to deal with more than one operating system, and more than one Linux distribution. In my own personal research I have found that with Linux distributions, each distribution has its own set of strengths and weaknesses, which has caused me to assign my own little 'matrix' regarding distributions. <UL>SuSE comes in as my overall favorite because it can successfully fulfil two important roles for *me*: User Workstation, and Dialup Router. Slackware fulfils my requirements only for Server and Dialup Router. Slackware is great if you need an extremely small image size, such as a 50mb Linux-bootable partition for simply managing LILO! (I have 3 hard disks in my system and am triple boot. One 50mb bootable partition on my first SCSI drive is great for managing LILO, and for fixing my other Linux-bootable drive when I screw it up with experiments.)</UL> As far as other distributions are concerned, Caldera is nice, but does not have the tonnage of apps that SuSE has. RedHat - nice folks and we have them to thank for the RPM. We'll see what their latest release is like. I have a friend who is new to Linux and could not get their 5.0 product to install, yet he could get SuSE to install. 5. To SuSE techs/developers: Your product is rich in engineering. It is a classic case of "German engineering" - a compliment. However, there is much that needs to be simplified. In some cases, there is overkill and things are labyrinthian, but not so much that after digging one can figure out what is being done and for what reason. I haven't see a problem yet that you guys haven't been able to figure out and fix. However, this is time consuming. 6. While it is true that Yast is a very robust and thorough package management system, you have to realize that most of us do not trust automation unless it is something we have written ourselves! So our expectations are high for this product. I look at your startup/init scripts and I see that a lot of good work has gone into them. However, I believe that most of us have little enough time to learn the depths of Yast or the startup system. 7. I like the concept of the /etc/rc.config - good overall, but it has areas that need improvement. 8. Yast needs some improvements to really become the tool you want it to be. Some suggestions include: <UL>Re-do the front menu. I would like to see something like this:</UL> <UL> <UL> <LI> Help</LI> <LI> Index of all packages currently installed (should not require CD - this should be able to show me what I have on my system, rev levels etc.)</LI> <LI> Choose Install packages - this should not require a CD - the list should be available, then prompt for the appropriate CD - this could combine the Update Packages function.</LI> <LI> User Admin - this should be on the front menu</LI> <LI> System Admin</LI> <LI> Change Configuration File - I didn't initially realize how important this file is - it needs to be out front</LI> <LI> Pre-Install: Lang / keymap / Install Source - Yast should guide into this from Choose Install packages</LI> <LI> Hard Disk: Partition Mgmt / Target Partition - Yast should guide user here if not completed</LI> <LI> Installation to a directory</LI> <LI> Exit</LI> </UL> </UL> That, and "fixing" the installer so that all packages are installed BEFORE a reboot would be great! Yours is the only distribution that requires a reboot to finish the software load. Not a good idea, even if it *seems* to work. :) Now from what I have seen of the previous comments your techs and devlopers have posted, your initial reaction will be to dismiss my comments as "some inexperienced user - he just doesn't know Yast" . Exactly. I don't, and I shouldn't have to. But I shouldn't have to try and figure out what you guys are doing so I can "fix" around it either. I have a mantra for all things computing: SIMPLIFY! Don't get hung up on my criticisms, be willing to examine them in detail. Your distribution is probably in the best position to make the biggest impact on the desktop. What would really be a nice enhancement is to have a feature that installs a very small "just enough Unix to start and run the machine" image. For example, in Slackware, I can select the A, AP, and N disk sets and create a fully functional Linux system on a 50mb partition. Perhaps some guidance in your docs or in Yast would be enough. Perhaps you can create a "User Image" , "Server Image" , "Router Image" i.e image personalities for different roles. "Have a lot of fun!" :) (And you know, the groan you just gave is exactly what I do when I see that!) -tks- </HTML> --------------1F337B1C5A13B8E6DFB8F576-- -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e
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