[opensuse] Copy big file
I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. How can I realise that? Needs it a bigger Swap? T. i.a. André den Oudsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
A. den Oudsen composed on 2018-10-13 22:07 (UTC+0200):
I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes.
How can I realise that? Needs it a bigger Swap?
Target needs a filesystem that supports file size 4.1G. USB sticks typically ship with FAT filesystem that does not support files that large, so must be reformatted if larger files must be supported. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op 13-10-18 om 22:13 schreef Felix Miata:
A. den Oudsen composed on 2018-10-13 22:07 (UTC+0200):
I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. How can I realise that? Needs it a bigger Swap? Target needs a filesystem that supports file size 4.1G. USB sticks typically ship with FAT filesystem that does not support files that large, so must be reformatted if larger files must be supported.
Formatted to which ? Thanks, André -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op 13-10-18 om 22:13 schreef Felix Miata:
A. den Oudsen composed on 2018-10-13 22:07 (UTC+0200):
I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. How can I realise that? Needs it a bigger Swap?
Target needs a filesystem that supports file size 4.1G. USB sticks typically ship with FAT filesystem that does not support files that large, so must be reformatted if larger files must be supported.
Formatted to which ?
Thanks,
André If it's "new out of the box" it probably has a FAT filesystem. Use YaST's
Op zaterdag 13 oktober 2018 23:56:53 CEST schreef A. den Oudsen: partitioner to replace that by ext4 and you should be fine. -- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op 14-10-18 om 00:10 schreef Knurpht-openSUSE:
Op 13-10-18 om 22:13 schreef Felix Miata:
A. den Oudsen composed on 2018-10-13 22:07 (UTC+0200):
I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. How can I realise that? Needs it a bigger Swap? Target needs a filesystem that supports file size 4.1G. USB sticks typically ship with FAT filesystem that does not support files that large, so must be reformatted if larger files must be supported. Formatted to which ?
Thanks,
André If it's "new out of the box" it probably has a FAT filesystem. Use YaST's
Op zaterdag 13 oktober 2018 23:56:53 CEST schreef A. den Oudsen: partitioner to replace that by ext4 and you should be fine.
I was following your advise to go USB, and this advise I will folow also' Thanks a lot André -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op 14-10-18 om 00:10 schreef Knurpht-openSUSE:
Op zaterdag 13 oktober 2018 23:56:53 CEST schreef A. den Oudsen:
Op 13-10-18 om 22:13 schreef Felix Miata:
A. den Oudsen composed on 2018-10-13 22:07 (UTC+0200):
I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. How can I realise that? Needs it a bigger Swap?
Target needs a filesystem that supports file size 4.1G. USB sticks typically ship with FAT filesystem that does not support files that large, so must be reformatted if larger files must be supported.
Formatted to which ?
Thanks,
André
If it's "new out of the box" it probably has a FAT filesystem. Use YaST's partitioner to replace that by ext4 and you should be fine.
I was following your advise to go USB, and this advise I will folow also'
Thanks a lot
André Ah, it's for "burning" an iso? Then use imagewriter, etcher or plain dd, do not copy the iso itself to a
Op zondag 14 oktober 2018 01:27:18 CEST schreef A. den Oudsen: partition. -- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
A. den Oudsen composed on 2018-10-13 23:56 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
A. den Oudsen composed on 2018-10-13 22:07 (UTC+0200):
I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. How can I realise that? Needs it a bigger Swap?
Target needs a filesystem that supports file size 4.1G. USB sticks typically ship with FAT filesystem that does not support files that large, so must be reformatted if larger files must be supported.
Formatted to which ?
Any type that doesn't have FAT as part of its name. NTFS if you need access to it while using Windows or devices like TVs and cameras. EXT2 if not, and you don't want to lose space to journaling, EXT3 or 4, among others, if you wish journaling. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/13/2018 3:31 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Any type that doesn't have FAT as part of its name.
ExFAT would work.... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
L A Walsh composed on 2018-10-13 20:24 (UTC-0700):
On 10/13/2018 3:31 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Any type that doesn't have FAT as part of its name.
ExFAT would work....
I left that out on purpose, since that support is not a given. fuse-exfat is in Packman, not OSS. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is religion, not science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 14/10/2018 à 05:24, L A Walsh a écrit :
On 10/13/2018 3:31 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Any type that doesn't have FAT as part of its name.
ExFAT would work....
but needs an extra install in openSUSE (not default) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 14/10/2018 09.04, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 14/10/2018 à 05:24, L A Walsh a écrit :
On 10/13/2018 3:31 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Any type that doesn't have FAT as part of its name.
ExFAT would work....
but needs an extra install in openSUSE (not default)
Yes, but possibly exFAT works better on sticks than NTFS or EXT3 -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 10/13/18 10:07 PM, A. den Oudsen wrote:
I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes.
How can I realise that? [...]
You reported what you tried to do, but not: - how you tried to do it (command line, drag'ndrop, ???), - and what was the result (error message!), so it would need a lot of guesswork to help. Have a nice day, Berny -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Op 13-10-18 om 23:27 schreef Bernhard Voelker: > On 10/13/18 10:07 PM, A. den Oudsen wrote: >> I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. >> >> How can I realise that? [...] > You reported what you tried to do, but not: > - how you tried to do it (command line, drag'ndrop, ???), > - and what was the result (error message!), > so it would need a lot of guesswork to help. > > Have a nice day, > Berny > I used Dolphin to copy from Downloads to USB stick KINGSTON DT50 André -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 13/10/2018 23.34, A. den Oudsen wrote: > > Op 13-10-18 om 23:27 schreef Bernhard Voelker: >> On 10/13/18 10:07 PM, A. den Oudsen wrote: >>> I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. >>> >>> How can I realise that? [...] >> You reported what you tried to do, but not: >> - how you tried to do it (command line, drag'ndrop, ???), >> - and what was the result (error message!), >> so it would need a lot of guesswork to help. >> >> > I used Dolphin to copy from Downloads to USB stick KINGSTON DT50 Then you are doing it wrong, without reading the instructions. You do NOT copy the ISO file to the stick as a file. You copy it to the RAW device. The ISO image is an image of an entire filesystem, already formatted. <https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.0 (Legolas))
Le 14/10/2018 à 03:08, Carlos E. R. a écrit :
I used Dolphin to copy from Downloads to USB stick KINGSTON DT50
Then you are doing it wrong, without reading the instructions. You do NOT copy the ISO file to the stick as a file. You copy it to the RAW device.
The ISO image is an image of an entire filesystem, already formatted.
depends if it's to share the image or to install it :-( jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 14/10/18 12:08 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 13/10/2018 23.34, A. den Oudsen wrote:
>> Op 13-10-18 om 23:27 schreef Bernhard Voelker:
>>> On 10/13/18 10:07 PM, A. den Oudsen wrote:
>>>> I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes.
>>>>
>>>> How can I realise that? [...]
>>> You reported what you tried to do, but not:
>>> - how you tried to do it (command line, drag'ndrop, ???),
>>> - and what was the result (error message!),
>>> so it would need a lot of guesswork to help.
>>>
>> I used Dolphin to copy from Downloads to USB stick KINGSTON DT50
> Then you are doing it wrong, without reading the instructions. You do
> NOT copy the ISO file to the stick as a file. You copy it to the RAW device.
>
> The ISO image is an image of an entire filesystem, already formatted.
>
>
> <https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick>
Why are you assuming that he wants to create live USB stick? Perhaps all
he wants to do is to simply copy the file to the stick, no?
BC
--
"One of the wettest we've ever seen from the standpoint of water".
Donald Trump's observation on Hurricane Florence, 19 September 2018.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org
To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 14/10/2018 09.43, Basil Chupin wrote: > On 14/10/18 12:08 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> On 13/10/2018 23.34, A. den Oudsen wrote: >>> Op 13-10-18 om 23:27 schreef Bernhard Voelker: >>>> On 10/13/18 10:07 PM, A. den Oudsen wrote: >>>>> I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. >>>>> >>>>> How can I realise that? [...] >>>> You reported what you tried to do, but not: >>>> - how you tried to do it (command line, drag'ndrop, ???), >>>> - and what was the result (error message!), >>>> so it would need a lot of guesswork to help. >>>> >>> I used Dolphin to copy from Downloads to USB stick KINGSTON DT50 >> Then you are doing it wrong, without reading the instructions. You do >> NOT copy the ISO file to the stick as a file. You copy it to the RAW device. >> >> The ISO image is an image of an entire filesystem, already formatted. >> >> >> <https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick> > > > Why are you assuming that he wants to create live USB stick? Perhaps all > he wants to do is to simply copy the file to the stick, no? Because he replied to Knurpht «I was following your advise to go USB, and this advise I will folow also'», which is a reference to previous thread «Missing possibility to choose Windows at startup» where Knurpht recommended to install using USB instead of DVD. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 14/10/18 8:08 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 14/10/2018 09.43, Basil Chupin wrote:
>> On 14/10/18 12:08 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 13/10/2018 23.34, A. den Oudsen wrote:
>>>> Op 13-10-18 om 23:27 schreef Bernhard Voelker:
>>>>> On 10/13/18 10:07 PM, A. den Oudsen wrote:
>>>>>> I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How can I realise that? [...]
>>>>> You reported what you tried to do, but not:
>>>>> - how you tried to do it (command line, drag'ndrop, ???),
>>>>> - and what was the result (error message!),
>>>>> so it would need a lot of guesswork to help.
>>>>>
>>>> I used Dolphin to copy from Downloads to USB stick KINGSTON DT50
>>> Then you are doing it wrong, without reading the instructions. You do
>>> NOT copy the ISO file to the stick as a file. You copy it to the RAW device.
>>>
>>> The ISO image is an image of an entire filesystem, already formatted.
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick>
>> Why are you assuming that he wants to create live USB stick? Perhaps all
>> he wants to do is to simply copy the file to the stick, no?
> Because he replied to Knurpht «I was following your advise to go USB,
> and this advise I will folow also'», which is a reference to previous
> thread «Missing possibility to choose Windows at startup» where Knurpht
> recommended to install using USB instead of DVD.
Nope, the OP did not "talk" to Knupht at the time. Here is the sequence
of posts including your reply to the OP :-):
<quote>
On 13/10/2018 23.34, A. den Oudsen wrote:
>
> Op 13-10-18 om 23:27 schreef Bernhard Voelker:
>> On 10/13/18 10:07 PM, A. den Oudsen wrote:
>>> I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes.
>>>
>>> How can I realise that? [...]
>> You reported what you tried to do, but not:
>> - how you tried to do it (command line, drag'ndrop, ???),
>> - and what was the result (error message!),
>> so it would need a lot of guesswork to help.
>>
>>
> I used Dolphin to copy from Downloads to USB stick KINGSTON DT50
Then you are doing it wrong, without reading the instructions. You do
NOT copy the ISO file to the stick as a file. You copy it to the RAW device.
The ISO image is an image of an entire filesystem, already formatted.
<https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick>
--
Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from openSUSE 15.0 (Legolas))
</quote>
To this point in time the OP had said nothing about creating a live USB
stick -- all he tried to do was to copy a 4.1GB file to a 8GB stick and
used Dolphin to do so :-).
BC
--
"One of the wettest we've ever seen from the standpoint of water".
Donald Trump's observation on Hurricane Florence, 19 September 2018.
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org
To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 16/10/2018 04.34, Basil Chupin wrote:
On 14/10/18 8:08 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 14/10/18 12:08 pm, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 13/10/2018 23.34, A. den Oudsen wrote:
Op 13-10-18 om 23:27 schreef Bernhard Voelker:
On 10/13/18 10:07 PM, A. den Oudsen wrote: > I tried to copy a 4.1 GiB file to an 8 GiB USB disc without succes. > > How can I realise that? [...] You reported what you tried to do, but not: - how you tried to do it (command line, drag'ndrop, ???), - and what was the result (error message!), so it would need a lot of guesswork to help.
I used Dolphin to copy from Downloads to USB stick KINGSTON DT50 Then you are doing it wrong, without reading the instructions. You do NOT copy the ISO file to the stick as a file. You copy it to the RAW device.
The ISO image is an image of an entire filesystem, already formatted.
<https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick> Why are you assuming that he wants to create live USB stick? Perhaps all he wants to do is to simply copy the file to the stick, no? Because he replied to Knurpht «I was following your advise to go USB, and this advise I will folow also'», which is a reference to previous
On 14/10/2018 09.43, Basil Chupin wrote: thread «Missing possibility to choose Windows at startup» where Knurpht recommended to install using USB instead of DVD.
Nope, the OP did not "talk" to Knupht at the time. Here is the sequence of posts including your reply to the OP :-):
At: Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 01:27:18 +0200 Message-ID: <cc25b3ff-d242-c6d5-6a6f-b884b8774ff2@wxs.nl> he said to Knurpht: «I was following your advise to go USB, and this advise I will folow also'» knurpht replied on: Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 01:49:28 +0200 Message-ID: <85531716.XMjfZYMbes@knurpht-hp> «Ah, it's for "burning" an iso? Then use imagewriter, etcher or plain dd, do not copy the iso itself to a partition.» The post of mine you quoted was made later: Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 03:08:34 +0200 Message-ID: <ddd94fcb-f0c8-3eba-8910-5875f2c17c2c@telefonica.net> So obviously I had time to see those posts: A reference by "A. den Oudsen" to another thread, which then I seeked⁽¹⁾ and read, and knurpht asking if he was "burning an iso" (1) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2018 22:29:28 +0200 Message-ID: <3049969.D2TukFoOaX@knurpht-hp> «FWIW: quit using optical media, use a USB stick / disk instead.» Sorry, but it was quite obvious from all the hints that he was trying to burn an ISO to USB stick, not copying a file :-) knurpht had already told him so, but I wanted to reinforce that idea, and point him to the detailed instructions on how to do it (I participated in that wiki page writeup). :-) I am some times very thickheaded, like today finding out about cgroups to be told about another thread in which I participated two weeks earlier where the answer was already written, but I'm good at guessing problems from incomplete descriptions by people ;-) Side note: Next time you quote an old email, omit the signature mark line, or defang it, because it confuses the mail composser (Thunderbird) when replying. It cuts at that line removing the rest below. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 13/10/2018 23:27, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
so it would need a lot of guesswork to help.
I have to disagree. USB disks often come formatted with FAT (specifically FAT32), because it works on almost any OS. And FAT32 doesn't support files of 4GB or larger. So, whereas in general terms, you're right, the post didn't contain anywhere near enough specific info -- in this case, it had enough. The probable cause was pretty clear. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 15/10/2018 12.52, Liam Proven wrote:
On 13/10/2018 23:27, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
so it would need a lot of guesswork to help.
I have to disagree.
USB disks often come formatted with FAT (specifically FAT32), because it works on almost any OS.
And FAT32 doesn't support files of 4GB or larger.
So, whereas in general terms, you're right, the post didn't contain anywhere near enough specific info -- in this case, it had enough. The probable cause was pretty clear.
Correct, but it was also missing some important context: his intention was not really to "copy the iso file", but to "boot from USB stick using the openSUSE ISO image". Ie, /install/ the ISO into the stick. :-) In this usage, what needs to be done is to copy the ISO file to the device that represents the stick, overwriting any format it has. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 15/10/2018 14:42, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Correct, but it was also missing some important context: his intention was not really to "copy the iso file", but to "boot from USB stick using the openSUSE ISO image". Ie, /install/ the ISO into the stick. :-)
OK, conceded, that is true. :-)
In this usage, what needs to be done is to copy the ISO file to the device that represents the stick, overwriting any format it has.
You and I know that but it's a common mistake. Windows-only types don't know what "burn an ISO to CD" means because until fairly recently Microsoft didn't make ISO images available, and Windows couldn't do it unaided, so they never learned how. As of Windows 8.0, MS has made ISOs available. For Win10, they're easy to get, and it works unregistered and unactivated too. Very useful for tasks like BIOS updates. I think around then it also gained the ability to write them to optical drives without 3rd party tools. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/15/18 12:52 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 13/10/2018 23:27, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
so it would need a lot of guesswork to help.
I have to disagree.
USB disks often come formatted with FAT (specifically FAT32), because it works on almost any OS.
And FAT32 doesn't support files of 4GB or larger.
So, whereas in general terms, you're right, the post didn't contain anywhere near enough specific info -- in this case, it had enough. The probable cause was pretty clear.
Really? "... copy ... to USB ... without success" needs at least open(3) and write(3), so I could think of errors from the system like EACCES, EPERM, EISDIR, ENOTDIR, ENOSPC, EIO, etc. Or, it could have been the "I copied an ISO but it didn't boot" case. So at that point, I'd have needed some more information in order to help. That's why we already have a 20+ thread for a quite trivial case. And that's why I continue to repeat this when someone reports a problem (also at work) without enough information: - What did I try to do? - How did I try to do it? - What result was expected? - What was the actual result? and finally - What was the error message (if any)? Have a nice day, Berny -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 15/10/2018 15:29, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
Really? "... copy ... to USB ... without success" needs at least open(3) and write(3), so I could think of errors from the system like EACCES, EPERM, EISDIR, ENOTDIR, ENOSPC, EIO, etc. Or, it could have been the "I copied an ISO but it didn't boot" case. So at that point, I'd have needed some more information in order to help. That's why we already have a 20+ thread for a quite trivial case.
And that's why I continue to repeat this when someone reports a problem (also at work) without enough information: - What did I try to do? - How did I try to do it? - What result was expected? - What was the actual result? and finally - What was the error message (if any)?
Yes, really. Always remember Ockham's Razor: Non sunt multiplicanda entia sine necessitate "Entities are not to be multiplied without necessity" In other words, if you are faced with several alternative explanations for something, consider the simplest first. The simplest is likeliest to be true. Removable USB disk? Large file won't copy? It's probably formatted with FAT32. Before any other more elaborate reasons, that's the simplest. That's why it became the joke in /the IT Crowd/: "Have you tried turning it off and back on again?" It's the simplest fix in IT, just because it often works. If that doesn't work, "are you _absolutely sure_ it's plugged in and turned on?" That often works where #1 fails. Don't waste your time and the time of the person with the problem. Start with the simplest possible explanation and test it first. The reason I am taking the time to say this is that I found it an important life lesson, and even after 20y in my career, sometimes I forgot it myself. Like the time I spent troubleshooting a printer driver until 5AM because I didn't check it was properly plugged in. (The parallel cable was inserted enough for Windows to auto-detect the printer, but not enough to actually print to it. A true million-to-one shot. But *I didn't check.*) Always *ALWAYS* start with the simplest stuff. William of Ockham worked it out before the year 1347 and it's still true today. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/15/18 4:26 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
On 15/10/2018 15:29, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
Really? "... copy ... to USB ... without success" needs at least open(3) and write(3), so I could think of errors from the system like EACCES, EPERM, EISDIR, ENOTDIR, ENOSPC, EIO, etc. Or, it could have been the "I copied an ISO but it didn't boot" case. So at that point, I'd have needed some more information in order to help. That's why we already have a 20+ thread for a quite trivial case.
And that's why I continue to repeat this when someone reports a problem (also at work) without enough information: - What did I try to do? - How did I try to do it? - What result was expected? - What was the actual result? and finally - What was the error message (if any)?
Yes, really.
Always remember Ockham's Razor:
Non sunt multiplicanda entia sine necessitate "Entities are not to be multiplied without necessity"
In other words, if you are faced with several alternative explanations for something, consider the simplest first. The simplest is likeliest to be true.
Removable USB disk? Large file won't copy? It's probably formatted with FAT32. Before any other more elaborate reasons, that's the simplest.
That's why it became the joke in /the IT Crowd/:
"Have you tried turning it off and back on again?"
It's the simplest fix in IT, just because it often works.
If that doesn't work, "are you _absolutely sure_ it's plugged in and turned on?"
That often works where #1 fails.
Don't waste your time and the time of the person with the problem. Start with the simplest possible explanation and test it first.
The reason I am taking the time to say this is that I found it an important life lesson, and even after 20y in my career, sometimes I forgot it myself. Like the time I spent troubleshooting a printer driver until 5AM because I didn't check it was properly plugged in. (The parallel cable was inserted enough for Windows to auto-detect the printer, but not enough to actually print to it. A true million-to-one shot. But *I didn't check.*)
Always *ALWAYS* start with the simplest stuff. William of Ockham worked it out before the year 1347 and it's still true today.
A valid point of view; still, I prefer it differently: a) when the reporter of a problem takes some time to describe the problem, then many of the problems are gone before sending. E.g. the description of your printer problem may have started with: "Printing failed, I double-checked the cables, errr ... forget about it" ;-) b) I want to fight the "XXX doesn't work - help me" attitude. People should take their time to report bugs, and not expecting the people being asked to spend more time on the issue. There's a reason why there are a lot of "how to report bugs" pages. https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug ... A common requirement is "be precise". Have a nice day, Berny -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Le 15/10/2018 à 19:48, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
should take their time to report bugs, and not expecting the people being asked to spend more time on the issue.
more than once, writing a mail to ask, I try to be precise and this gives me the solution :-)) jdd -- http://dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2018-10-15 at 19:54 +0200, jdd@dodin.org wrote:
Le 15/10/2018 à 19:48, Bernhard Voelker a écrit :
should take their time to report bugs, and not expecting the people being asked to spend more time on the issue.
more than once, writing a mail to ask, I try to be precise and this gives me the solution :-))
Me too. Today. :-) Although in this case it was obvious that it was a case of FAT. 95% sure, LOL :-) Ok, I admit it is not obvious for everyone. I think I'm good at smelling what's other person computer problems are, not mine ;-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlvE45QACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XPIwCgktx/Pr5JZqaQYv6e52r5R6XZ V+kAniFZ7qd1eI/aKPuGs1hg8M1+hSZs =b1QL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 15/10/2018 19:48, Bernhard Voelker wrote:
A valid point of view; still, I prefer it differently:
a) when the reporter of a problem takes some time to describe the problem, then many of the problems are gone before sending. E.g. the description of your printer problem may have started with: "Printing failed, I double-checked the cables, errr ... forget about it" ;-)
b) I want to fight the "XXX doesn't work - help me" attitude. People should take their time to report bugs, and not expecting the people being asked to spend more time on the issue. There's a reason why there are a lot of "how to report bugs" pages.
https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/How_to_report_a_bug ...
A common requirement is "be precise".
Ah well now. That is not an alternative, that's a wholly different point... but it's one I definitely agree with. I'd put it after "don't ask first, Google it first, then ask", though. :-) -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
A. den Oudsen -
Basil Chupin -
Bernhard Voelker -
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
jdd＠dodin.org -
Knurpht-openSUSE -
L A Walsh -
Liam Proven