For those who might be interested below is a copy of my email to the feedback team and their response. I hope it answers all questions about why yast1 was removed. I guess if folks feel strongly enough or have suggestions about yast1 they contact feedback@suse.de, too. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Ticket [20020426990000291] Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:30:01 +0200 From: Feedback <feedback@suse.de> To: ForeverCheerful <eddie.howson@dsl.pipex.com> Dear SuSE Linux user, Thanks a lot for your mail to the SuSE feedback team. You wrote:
Hi All
Let me first say that I have been generally pleased with SuSE over the few years that I have been using SuSE. I know that it was felt prudent for whatever reason to terminate Yast1 but I do find the manual version of Yast2 with the constant need to tab burdensome. I much rather the menu selection feature of yast1.
More critically, in the past, I have found it useful to download update rpm's to my local drive. Then, at my convenience, I could view the updates and compare them with what I currently have installed and choose whether or not to install them. If later I chose to install a new package I could always check if an update already exists on my local drive. This gave me a greater feeling of control over my system. I was able to do this through yast1 as well as use it to manage rpm's from sources other than suse.com and mirror sites. Again, I am not able to do this through the manually version of yast2 and consequently feel that I have lost a degree of control over my system.
While it may be thought of as unwise to reinstate yast1, it would be nice if some consideration could be given to adding some more of yast1's functionality and features to the manual version of yast2.
Thanks for listening.
Eddie
-- Make the most of life. Say something nice to someone, today.
Beginning with version 8.0 YaST1 is not longer part of SuSE Linux. This installation tool was not sufficient to do the things our users requested it to do. From a technical point of view it was not possible to maintain YaST1 and YaST2 simultaneously and the former one was too hard to upgrade with a reasonable effort. The worthy follower is YaST2: It already provides more access to the various parts of SuSE Linux than YaST1 ever did. We especially cared about two things: Speed and complete control over SuSE Linux. While YaST2 is primarily intended to be used in a graphical environment, a lot of users also want to use it in textmode. For this reason we improved its perfomance here e.g. you can select all important areas by keyboard shortcuts now. Because of its modular design YaST2 is prepared for future developments. We constantly work on improving it and we look forward to get your feedback on YaST2. Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Kind regards, Uwe Drechsel (feedback@suse.de) ------------------------------------------------------------ SuSE GmbH, E-Mail: feedback@suse.de Deutschherrenstr. 15-19 WWW : http://www.suse.de/ 90429 Nuernberg ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------- -- Be different, say something nice.
[....] you can select all important areas by keyboard shortcuts [in Yast2] now.
Um.. how do I do that? I'm running 8.0 PRO, but the only way I can access the different options is by using TAB and ENTER. Some of the letters are highlighted (yellow, actually), so I assumed I could hit a key and it would select that option for me. Nope... also ALT+TAB does not across in reverse order. What's up? -- Karol Pietrzak PGP KeyID: 3A1446A0
On Sunday 28 April 2002 12:13, ForeverCheerful wrote:
For those who might be interested below is a copy of my email to the feedback team and their response. I hope it answers all questions about why yast1 was removed. I guess if folks feel strongly enough or have suggestions about yast1 they contact feedback@suse.de, too.
Over at the alt.os.linux.suse newsgroup, several people are saying that they've installed the 7.3 version of Yast1 on their 8.0 and it works fine. You have to use the --force option to install the RPM, though. Disclaimer: I am not personally recommending this nor have I tried it myself. If ya do it and it messes up something on yer system, go over to the newsgroup and gripe at them. ;-) Joe --------------------------------------------------- The surgeon general has determined that using Microsoft products may be hazardous to your wallet. And your computer. ---------------------------------------------------
* Joe Sullivan <flamester@telia.com> [Apr 28. 2002 12:11]:
On Sunday 28 April 2002 12:13, ForeverCheerful wrote:
For those who might be interested below is a copy of my email to the feedback team and their response. I hope it answers all questions about why yast1 was removed. I guess if folks feel strongly enough or have suggestions about yast1 they contact feedback@suse.de, too.
Over at the alt.os.linux.suse newsgroup, several people are saying that they've installed the 7.3 version of Yast1 on their 8.0 and it works fine.
You have to use the --force option to install the RPM, though.
Yes, it appears to work fine - at least the 'install packages' option which I have tried with KDE3. To install it you will have to move three links out of the way: /sbin/yast /sbin/YaST /sbin/zast it then installs fine with a: rpm -i --nodeps --force yast.rpm from the 7.3 suse cd, cd 1, directory a1. Since it runs the SuSeconfig of the original 8.0 install afterwards, I do not see why it wouldn't work fine, since you are basically using it as an ftp client...
Disclaimer: I am not personally recommending this nor have I tried it myself. If ya do it and it messes up something on yer system, go over to the newsgroup and gripe at them. ;-)
Joe --------------------------------------------------- The surgeon general has determined that using Microsoft products may be hazardous to your wallet. And your computer. ---------------------------------------------------
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Joost
Hi
questions about why yast1 was removed. I guess if folks feel strongly enough or have suggestions about yast1 they contact feedback@suse.de, too.
I did that and got exactly the same answer as yourself. Word for word it is the same. I'm not impressed. What was wrong with YaST 1 ? I think that if SuSE can spend a lot of money in removing it then they can spend a lot of money on putting it back in again. I've started to use Fou4s which in some ways sorts out a few problems with not having YaST 1 on my computer. http://www.gaugusch.at/fou4s Thanks -- Richard www.sheflug.co.uk
Richard Ibbotson <richard@sheflug.co.uk> [ 28.04.2002 11:19:06 +0000]:
? I think that if SuSE can spend a lot of money in removing it then they can spend a lot of money on putting it back in again.
Sure, if you're going to pay for the developers that maintain YaST1. It just doesn't make sense to maintain two different tools to do the same job. YaST1 *and* YaST2 had and have to be adapted to the distribution because of things like changing package descriptions or the move from /etc/rc.config to /etc/sysconfig. The latter is also the reason why you'll not be able to configure your system with a YaST1 from 7.3. SuSE is a commercial company, aimed at making profit and that's why we can't afford binding valuable resources to tasks of limited value. Now that YaST1 is dead, these developers are able concentrate on improving YaST2, from which far more people will profit. Philipp
there is a very good alternative for installing rpms. This is Advanced Package Tools (APT). More information at: http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm/ On zondag 28 april 2002 12:13, ForeverCheerful wrote:
More critically, in the past, I have found it useful to download update
Use apt-get -dy install <pkg> (-dy: download only)
rpm's to my local drive. Then, at my convenience, I could view the updates and compare them with what I currently have installed and choose
Use apt-get -S upgrade and you get a list like this: dar:~ # apt-get -S upgrade Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following packages have been kept back k_deflt The following packages can be upgraded: kdebase3 from 3.0-26 to 3.0-49 Importance: ? Date: ? kdebase3-ksysguardd from 3.0-26 to 3.0-49 Importance: ? Date: ? mozilla from 0.9.9-9 to 1.0rc1-0 Importance: ? Date: ? qt3 from 3.0.3-41 to 3.0.3-57 Importance: ? Date: ? xf86tools from 0.1-146 to 0.1-233
whether or not to install them. If later I chose to install a new package I could always check if an update already exists on my local drive. This gave me a greater feeling of control over my system. I was able to do this through yast1 as well as use it to manage rpm's from sources other than suse.com and mirror sites. Again, I am not able to do this through the manually version of yast2 and consequently feel that I have lost a degree of control over my system.
-- Richard Bos For those without home the journey is endless
FYI: This is a form letter. the sent me exactly the same thing today, and the words are _exaclty_ the same. That's louzy. I'm not impressed. Actually I am impressed - and it's a bad impression. IT was kind of funny because my lette consisted of "There are things in YaST which are NOT in YaST2" and the form-letter-response starts right off talking about how YaST2 has more features then YaST ever had.... the liars. Keep it up SuSE, and you won't have any customers left in a few years. But personally, I think they'llsnap out of it. At least I sure hope so. If anyone ever finds a way to setup an aliased ip _with_ YaST2 (not by hand) I'd sure like to know how you did it ;-) On Sunday 28 April 2002 05:13 am, you wrote:
For those who might be interested below is a copy of my email to the feedback team and their response. I hope it answers all questions about why yast1 was removed. I guess if folks feel strongly enough or have suggestions about yast1 they contact feedback@suse.de, too.
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Ticket [20020426990000291] Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:30:01 +0200 From: Feedback <feedback@suse.de> To: ForeverCheerful <eddie.howson@dsl.pipex.com>
Dear SuSE Linux user,
Thanks a lot for your mail to the SuSE feedback team.
You wrote:
Hi All
Let me first say that I have been generally pleased with SuSE over the few years that I have been using SuSE. I know that it was felt prudent for whatever reason to terminate Yast1 but I do find the manual version of Yast2 with the constant need to tab burdensome. I much rather the menu selection feature of yast1.
More critically, in the past, I have found it useful to download update rpm's to my local drive. Then, at my convenience, I could view the updates and compare them with what I currently have installed and choose whether or not to install them. If later I chose to install a new package I could always check if an update already exists on my local drive. This gave me a greater feeling of control over my system. I was able to do this through yast1 as well as use it to manage rpm's from sources other than suse.com and mirror sites. Again, I am not able to do this through the manually version of yast2 and consequently feel that I have lost a degree of control over my system.
While it may be thought of as unwise to reinstate yast1, it would be nice if some consideration could be given to adding some more of yast1's functionality and features to the manual version of yast2.
Thanks for listening.
Eddie
-- Make the most of life. Say something nice to someone, today.
Beginning with version 8.0 YaST1 is not longer part of SuSE Linux. This installation tool was not sufficient to do the things our users requested it to do. From a technical point of view it was not possible to maintain YaST1 and YaST2 simultaneously and the former one was too hard to upgrade with a reasonable effort.
The worthy follower is YaST2: It already provides more access to the various parts of SuSE Linux than YaST1 ever did. We especially cared about two things: Speed and complete control over SuSE Linux.
While YaST2 is primarily intended to be used in a graphical environment, a lot of users also want to use it in textmode. For this reason we improved its perfomance here e.g. you can select all important areas by keyboard shortcuts now.
Because of its modular design YaST2 is prepared for future developments. We constantly work on improving it and we look forward to get your feedback on YaST2.
Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Kind regards,
Uwe Drechsel (feedback@suse.de)
------------------------------------------------------------ SuSE GmbH, E-Mail: feedback@suse.de Deutschherrenstr. 15-19 WWW : http://www.suse.de/ 90429 Nuernberg ------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------
IT was kind of funny because my lette consisted of "There are things in YaST which are NOT in YaST2" and the form-letter-response starts right off talking about how YaST2 has more features then YaST ever had.... the liars.
Keep it up SuSE, and you won't have any customers left in a few years.
If, as they say, YAST1 is uneconomical to maintain alongside YAST2, then Open Source it and let us maintain it ourselves !
If, as they say, YAST1 is uneconomical to maintain alongside YAST2, then Open Source it and let us maintain it ourselves !
It IS Open Source, look in the source packages, but not GPL or LGPL. Basically I believe (I can't seem to find the license right now) you can do almost anything with it, except modify it and still call it yast. /Stefan
Jon Biddell <jon@fl.net.au> [ Sat, 04 May 2002 22:28:05 +1000]:
If, as they say, YAST1 is uneconomical to maintain alongside YAST2, then Open Source it
It nearly *is*, you've got the source on your CDs/DVD! The only thing you're prohibited is using it for a commercial purpose without permission from SuSE.
and let us maintain it ourselves !
Ahh, you're going to adapt the YaST Sources to the new layout? /etc/rc.config -> /etc/sysconfig, changed hotplug and networking scripts, different layout of the package description (*.pkd) are just a few *major* changes you'd have to adapt to. And remember that no one from SuSE is going to work on those sources or help you with problems. Where would mozilla or OpenOffice be today if the original developers would have quit working on the sources the day they were made open source? I bet you they would both be either dead or very far from where they're now. Likewise for things like XFS and JFS. Making a product open source does *not* guaranty that anyone will actually work on it. Philipp
On Saturday 04 May 2002 15:51, Philipp Thomas wrote:
you're prohibited is using it for a commercial purpose without permission from SuSE.
I think you mean "distribute" for a commercial purpose, not "use" it. Surely commercial companies are allowed to use it to administrate their SuSE servers :) Anders
Anders Johansson [ 4.05.2002 22:22:44 +0200]:
On Saturday 04 May 2002 15:51, Philipp Thomas wrote:
I think you mean "distribute" for a commercial purpose, not "use" it.
Something like that, yes. Shows that english isn't my native tongue :) Philipp
participants (11)
-
Anders Johansson -
ForeverCheerful -
Joe Sullivan -
Jon Biddell -
Joost van der Lugt -
JW -
Karol Pietrzak -
Philipp Thomas -
Richard Bos -
Richard Ibbotson -
Stefan Nilsen