Re: [SLE] 10.0 external monitor at different resolution
On Sep 15, 06 10:26:23 +0200, Siegbert Baude wrote:
Is there a solution in the meantime to use 2 different resolutions at the same time wiht identical content, as in the classical laptop with beamer scenario? Last time I checked I found no solution for
A good talk is given with your back to the board and your front to the audience, therefore you have to look at your laptop display. I know the
Ok, finally we have the use case. I was thinking of a completely different setup. IMHO for talks our solution is pretty ok. In fact, talks were the driving force behind our decisions. Projectors typically have 1024x768, and there's almost no laptop with less than 1024x768 on its internal display. -> Do a standard configuration with cloned external monitor, and hand-select the 1024x768 resolution for the talk. I do that all the time.
panning solution, but it is not good for giving a talk, if you have to scroll to see the complete content for your screen. So it perfectly does make sense, but you have to render the contents two times, once for each resolution, so you can't use the same framebuffer. How you should deal
What you're asking for is application support. To the best of my knowledge *no* application on linux has support for something like that right now. On MacOS this is different, of course.
with different aspect ratios of displays is however unclear. Scaling horizontally seems to be the only way to go then.
I don't give a damn, if the aspect is wrong on my laptop's display during a talk. I'm also not interested about the quality of the display of the laptop, as you're standing in front of your laptop, and cannot visualize single pixels at all due to the distance.
The problem is not sax, but code implementations. At least X.org drivers simply don't allow it yet. I don't know if some of the proprietary drivers can do it.
? Xinerama and multidisplay setups work with all (maybe except intel under some circumstances) drivers with different resolutions. Matthias -- Matthias Hopf <mhopf@suse.de> __ __ __ Maxfeldstr. 5 / 90409 Nuernberg (_ | | (_ |__ mat@mshopf.de Phone +49-911-74053-715 __) |_| __) |__ labs www.mshopf.de
Matthias Hopf schrieb:
On Sep 15, 06 10:26:23 +0200, Siegbert Baude wrote:
A good talk is given with your back to the board and your front to the audience, therefore you have to look at your laptop display. I know the
Ok, finally we have the use case. I was thinking of a completely different setup.
Good to know, I will be more precise in the future. :-)
IMHO for talks our solution is pretty ok. In fact, talks were the driving force behind our decisions. Projectors typically have 1024x768, and there's almost no laptop with less than 1024x768 on its internal display. -> Do a standard configuration with cloned external monitor, and hand-select the 1024x768 resolution for the talk.
I do that all the time.
Yes, that is a working solution, but not using the native resolution of your laptop, which is what I was looking for. With modern laptop displays and resolutions of 1600x1200 and above, scaling is not a good solution.
panning solution, but it is not good for giving a talk, if you have to scroll to see the complete content for your screen. So it perfectly does make sense, but you have to render the contents two times, once for each resolution, so you can't use the same framebuffer. How you should deal
What you're asking for is application support. To the best of my knowledge *no* application on linux has support for something like that right now. On MacOS this is different, of course.
Interesting, that of course would be an alternative approach. Do I undertand you correct that you're talking about Xinerama, i.e. non-cloned display content, where the application is just using two separate windows for the presentation, one for each screen? This would be even better as the application could show different versions (one with comments for the speaker, one without for the audience). A pity this software doesn't exist yet.
with different aspect ratios of displays is however unclear. Scaling horizontally seems to be the only way to go then.
I don't give a damn, if the aspect is wrong on my laptop's display during a talk. I'm also not interested about the quality of the display of the laptop, as you're standing in front of your laptop, and cannot visualize single pixels at all due to the distance.
We're different then in this point. I want a crispy display also for the speaker. Maybe this depends on how often you give your speech and therefore know the contents already by heart. Next point could be the size of the room and therefore different distances to the display. Seems you just want to recognize, which sheet is displayed, whereas I would like to be able to actually read even smaller fonts.
The problem is not sax, but code implementations. At least X.org drivers simply don't allow it yet. I don't know if some of the proprietary drivers can do it.
? Xinerama and multidisplay setups work with all (maybe except intel under some circumstances) drivers with different resolutions.
Yes, but they don't show cloned display content, which is what is needed as long as the applications cannot use both displays for the presentation. So as long as this feature is missing, I would like to have cloned displays, both in there native resolution, which means the content has to be rendered twice, once for each display. Windows drivers for some laptop graphic chips allow this, but I don't know of a single solution to make this happen with Linux. IMHO, this is due to the x.org drivers not allowing this. Ciao Siegbert
On Sep 15, 06 14:33:43 +0200, Siegbert Baude wrote:
Yes, that is a working solution, but not using the native resolution of your laptop, which is what I was looking for. With modern laptop displays and resolutions of 1600x1200 and above, scaling is not a good solution.
I don't think this is possible on Windows as well. At least I have never seen an option for that on my machine at home (XP). I know MacOS has OS- and application support for that (e.g. additionally showing notes instead of the slide alone on the laptop display).
What you're asking for is application support. To the best of my knowledge *no* application on linux has support for something like that right now. On MacOS this is different, of course.
Interesting, that of course would be an alternative approach. Do I
Actually, no. If you have to render your screen in two different resolutions, you just *have* to have application support.
undertand you correct that you're talking about Xinerama, i.e. non-cloned display content, where the application is just using two separate windows for the presentation, one for each screen? This would
Yep.
be even better as the application could show different versions (one with comments for the speaker, one without for the audience). A pity this software doesn't exist yet.
As I mentionend this only works on MacOS so far AFAIK. Of course they could lay much pressure on the application developers ;)
We're different then in this point. I want a crispy display also for the speaker. Maybe this depends on how often you give your speech and therefore know the contents already by heart. Next point could be the
I never ever give the same talk twice. There's always something changing between revisions, even if it is about the same topic.
size of the room and therefore different distances to the display. Seems you just want to recognize, which sheet is displayed, whereas I would like to be able to actually read even smaller fonts.
No, I do have to read my lines. But if I'm having a hard time reading them, the font is clearly too small for the audience as well.
Xinerama and multidisplay setups work with all (maybe except intel under some circumstances) drivers with different resolutions.
Yes, but they don't show cloned display content, which is what is needed as long as the applications cannot use both displays for the
Again, cloned mode with different resolutions is by definition not available.
presentation. So as long as this feature is missing, I would like to have cloned displays, both in there native resolution, which means the content has to be rendered twice, once for each display. Windows drivers
Again, only possible with application support.
for some laptop graphic chips allow this, but I don't know of a single solution to make this happen with Linux. IMHO, this is due to the x.org drivers not allowing this.
Never heard of that on Windows. How do you configure that? What is the actual screen content if you start some application that has no clue of different screens? IMHO the scenario you describe cannot exist. So apparently I get something wrong. Matthias -- Matthias Hopf <mhopf@suse.de> __ __ __ Maxfeldstr. 5 / 90409 Nuernberg (_ | | (_ |__ mat@mshopf.de Phone +49-911-74053-715 __) |_| __) |__ labs www.mshopf.de
On Sep 15, 06 14:43:14 +0200, Matthias Hopf wrote:
presentation. So as long as this feature is missing, I would like to have cloned displays, both in there native resolution, which means the content has to be rendered twice, once for each display. Windows drivers for some laptop graphic chips allow this, but I don't know of a single solution to make this happen with Linux. IMHO, this is due to the x.org drivers not allowing this.
I just noted that *maybe* you are referring to drivers that do the scaling for the laptop on the graphics chip (instead of letting this as an option to the display) and might do better filtering here. The availability of such an option is very much dependent on the graphics driver. I think the nvidia (closed source) and the radeon driver (open source) both have options to configure something like that. CU Matthias -- Matthias Hopf <mhopf@suse.de> __ __ __ Maxfeldstr. 5 / 90409 Nuernberg (_ | | (_ |__ mat@mshopf.de Phone +49-911-74053-715 __) |_| __) |__ labs www.mshopf.de
Matthias Hopf wrote:
On Sep 15, 06 14:43:14 +0200, Matthias Hopf wrote:
presentation. So as long as this feature is missing, I would like to have cloned displays, both in there native resolution, which means the content has to be rendered twice, once for each display. Windows drivers for some laptop graphic chips allow this, but I don't know of a single solution to make this happen with Linux. IMHO, this is due to the x.org drivers not allowing this.
Why do we assume that one instance of the running program must be cloned to both screens in order to show similar images on both? Is it possible to run two instances of an application (or different, similar applications), one on each non-cloned, non-Xinerama configuration. Could the one on the laptop pass a message to the other one about what image to display on the projector? There could be an option of using thumbnails on the laptop, and not on the projector. Both could have the same display, but at different resolutions. On my dual screen desktop, the CAD benefits by very high resolution. Text editing or web browsing on the other doesn't benefit from such high resolution. Neither Xinerama nor clone are useful for this. On SuSE 10.1 I have been hand editing xorg.conf to force the option I need. If Thunderbird is on one monitor and Firefox on the other, then URL links imbeded in emails do not work to completion; an error message says that we can NOT run the requested web page because there is an instance of the browser on the system. If I knew how, I would have Thunderbird message the browser on the other monitor and pass the imbeded link so either a new page or a new tab opens on the running browser. The (new ?) application wanted for the laptop/projector in a speaker's situation is maybe not so different than mine. An Amiga might have done this with Arexx scripting.
I just noted that *maybe* you are referring to drivers that do the scaling for the laptop on the graphics chip (instead of letting this as an option to the display) and might do better filtering here.
The availability of such an option is very much dependent on the graphics driver. I think the nvidia (closed source) and the radeon driver (open source) both have options to configure something like that.
CU
Matthias
Matthias Hopf wrote:
Siegbert Baude wrote:
(attribution line corrected as I said the following)
presentation. So as long as this feature is missing, I would like to have cloned displays, both in there native resolution, which means the content has to be rendered twice, once for each display. Windows drivers for some laptop graphic chips allow this, but I don't know of a single solution to make this happen with Linux. IMHO, this is due to the x.org drivers not allowing this.
I just noted that *maybe* you are referring to drivers that do the scaling for the laptop on the graphics chip (instead of letting this as an option to the display) and might do better filtering here.
Exactly, that is what I was talking about, so you happen to find this setting in Windows under the driver options. I cannot tell, if this is a common feature, it just is true for the older IBM laptop of my former chief. IIRC, this one used a Neomagic graphics chip.
The availability of such an option is very much dependent on the graphics driver. I think the nvidia (closed source) and the radeon driver (open source) both have options to configure something like that.
On the newer IBM laptop with Radeon mobility he has, I could not get this working under Linux, but my experiments took place more than half a year ago, maybe something changed there? I avoided the proprietary ATI drivers, because they liked to garble the console. Do you happen to know, which option of the open source radeon driver would achieve this? Then I might start to fiddle again with this to get rid of Windows just for presentations. Ciao Siegbert
participants (3)
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Matthias Hopf -
Siegbert Baude -
Stanley Long