[opensuse] THANKS! Evolution pword patch!
Just did my weekly update...Evolution patch to restore the password database works fine! I'm surprised I haven't seen any chatter about it on the list...perhaps I missed it. Thanks, again! Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 23:22 -0600, Tom Patton wrote:
Just did my weekly update...Evolution patch to restore the password database works fine! I'm surprised I haven't seen any chatter about it on the list...perhaps I missed it.
Thanks, again!
Tom in NM
Ditto!! Now if we can kill the "Computer" menu bug and get someone on better ndiswrapper support... I just spent 2 hours after the kernel security update trying to wrestle the "Traditional with ifup" settings to play nice with my Belkin 54g USB adapter... I would love for openSUSE to have a section on the site that was a "store" of sorts (informational only) for people like me who are too busy to run down the few wireless cards/adapters that actually work. I know it's been the topic of a number of threads, but if there were actual "endorsement" for a brand the manufacturers might thaw... Anyway, back to the topic. THANKS to everyone involved with killing that annoying issue!!! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Clark P. Case wrote:
On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 23:22 -0600, Tom Patton wrote:
Just did my weekly update...Evolution patch to restore the password database works fine! I'm surprised I haven't seen any chatter about it on the list...perhaps I missed it.
Thanks, again!
Tom in NM
Ditto!! Now if we can kill the "Computer" menu bug and get someone on better ndiswrapper support... I just spent 2 hours after the kernel security update trying to wrestle the "Traditional with ifup" settings to play nice with my Belkin 54g USB adapter...
I would love for openSUSE to have a section on the site that was a "store" of sorts (informational only) for people like me who are too busy to run down the few wireless cards/adapters that actually work. I know it's been the topic of a number of threads, but if there were actual "endorsement" for a brand the manufacturers might thaw...
There is.... http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Network_Adapters_%28Wireless%29 But I would also suggest looking at... http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/ and the sourceforge ndiswrapper site. SuSE do supply a functional ndiswrapper, but getting drivers that actually work is bit more difficult. (Belkin do not get a good press on this). Curiously the drivers supplied by the manufacturer with card are not always the one that work under linux. and there is the openSuSE mobile list opensuse-mobile which does discuss these issues...
Anyway, back to the topic. THANKS to everyone involved with killing that annoying issue!!!
Perhaps as in my case other gave up using Evolution. For me I had a decision which Email Reader the company (small) was going to use. I had to base the decision on the following. 1. Reliability 2. Usability 3. Continual Development and support. 4. A sound confidence in that there are so many Evolution bugs that have been outstanding for a very long time 12 months + and I had no confidence that future bugs would be fixed in a timely manner. 5. Development vision - I feat that there was NO and NO evidence of a development vision. 6. Inexcusable lack of Q.A I must stress these were personal decisions and I use Thunderbird with delight everywhere. Has anyone else left Evolution???????? Scott G.T.Smith wrote:
Clark P. Case wrote:
On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 23:22 -0600, Tom Patton wrote:
Just did my weekly update...Evolution patch to restore the password database works fine! I'm surprised I haven't seen any chatter about it on the list...perhaps I missed it.
Thanks, again!
Tom in NM
Ditto!! Now if we can kill the "Computer" menu bug and get someone on better ndiswrapper support... I just spent 2 hours after the kernel security update trying to wrestle the "Traditional with ifup" settings to play nice with my Belkin 54g USB adapter...
I would love for openSUSE to have a section on the site that was a "store" of sorts (informational only) for people like me who are too busy to run down the few wireless cards/adapters that actually work. I know it's been the topic of a number of threads, but if there were actual "endorsement" for a brand the manufacturers might thaw...
There is....
http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Network_Adapters_%28Wireless%29
But I would also suggest looking at...
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/
and the sourceforge ndiswrapper site. SuSE do supply a functional ndiswrapper, but getting drivers that actually work is bit more difficult. (Belkin do not get a good press on this). Curiously the drivers supplied by the manufacturer with card are not always the one that work under linux.
and there is the openSuSE mobile list
opensuse-mobile
which does discuss these issues...
Anyway, back to the topic. THANKS to everyone involved with killing that annoying issue!!!
On Sat, 2007-04-14 at 18:54 +1000, Registration Account wrote:
Perhaps as in my case other gave up using Evolution.
. . .
Has anyone else left Evolution????????
Nope, still using it and been using it for many years Rudolf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Perhaps as in my case other gave up using Evolution. Has anyone else left Evolution???????? Nope, still using it and been using it for many years
Same, been using Evolution forever; it is fast, stable, usable, and feature complete. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-04-14 at 08:33 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Perhaps as in my case other gave up using Evolution. Has anyone else left Evolution???????? Nope, still using it and been using it for many years
Same, been using Evolution forever; it is fast, stable, usable, and feature complete.
Well there is one "feature" that was removed. I used to be able to right click in the message and select "reply to list" but someone removed it. -- Ken Schneider UNIX since 1989, linux since 1994, SuSE since 1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
. .
Well there is one "feature" that was removed. I used to be able to right click in the message and select "reply to list" but someone removed it.
True, but you can use <Ctrl>l as an alternative Rudolf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Perhaps as in my case other gave up using Evolution. Has anyone else left Evolution????????
Nope, still using it and been using it for many years
Same, been using Evolution forever; it is fast, stable, usable, and feature complete.
I liked v1.0, lived with v2.0 even though some of the more useful features had disappeared until I found that I had to redo most of the filtering rules., found out the hard way it did not really get along with courier-imap (I moved from UoW imap to courier because I wanted maildir format directories not mbox), and then it started crashing every time it loaded in the mail context, (if I loaded it from in a non-mail context in offline mode then went to mail and went into online mode it would load the mail, but only then!). I have rather large mail archive and trying figure out what was causing the problem was becoming to time consuming so it got dumped. Unfortunately my preferred mail client on the Windows Platform (TheBat) does not run under Linux, and as I need to work with both Windows and Linux, and I prefered a common mail client with common filtering rules I have been working with TBird ever since.
On Saturday 14 April 2007 03:54, Registration Account wrote:
4. A sound confidence in that there are so many Evolution bugs that have been outstanding for a very long time 12 months +
The picture can be wrong if you look only in a number of bugs. When you look in bug reports, there is a lot of bugs that is not easy to tell what to do as problem is reported by one person with not so common hardware or software configuration that no one else confirmed, bugs waiting for response from reporter for a long time, bugs waiting on response from upstream developers, overloaded developers not having time to check old bug reports, etc. I guess that being busy is overall problem as you have time to check number of bugs, but not what they are, so you make your decision on facts that you have time to capture. BTW, I'm not using Evolution, but 2 other posts in this thread that say they are satisfied with, made me wonder how can happen that Evolution has many open bugs, but still works good. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-04-14 at 08:14 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 14 April 2007 03:54, Registration Account wrote:
BTW, I'm not using Evolution, but 2 other posts in this thread that say they are satisfied with, made me wonder how can happen that Evolution has many open bugs, but still works good. I can't speak to that directly, I haven't checked the bugzilla, Evolution has been very workable for me since it came out, I rely heavily on the calendar and task list. Since I typically use FVWM as my desktop, I am now well practiced at my password! And with the snow here yesterday, the last update was like a late Christmas present!!!
The only other recent "feature removal" that I've noticed...is the "invert selection". It was nice to select the few important emails (ctrl-click), then invert (ctrl-I) and delete (ctrl-D) all the remaining junk. That was dropped somewhere between 9.3 and 10.2, I guess. Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Sorry guys, quote from Suse.DE after asking QA Mgt to advise if Evolution bugs had correct disposal as I had entered a few bugs and after 2 months no reply (Paraphrase) "Sorry I don't get down here to much with bugs that are not critical or above" I was basically told Evolution bugs don't get much of a first glance and hence stay at New for very long periods of time. Then 10.2 was released with huge upgrade issues wit the whole distro and admittedly I only look after 11PC's but the whole upgrade disaster was very concerning. I have another 8 months to decide if we purchase SLES/D based upon performance and productivity. Then suse.de released its RC with a alpha test3 blocker still unresolved - the password issue. Operationally our group may process over 11,000 messages between us. I only found out the issue after all the upgrade bugs got sorted out so you can image my distress and the by all. Also each person has up to 7 different email addresses pop3 to process. Basically if 10.4 has anything like the upgrade bugs in it or a blocker in it - I'm out of here completely and there will be no evaluation of SLES/D. Of everyone who replied they were happy to keep evolution could you please tell me if you are operating in a commercial work place? Basically I regarded the upgrade bugs I had to deal with as if the RC was Alpha in 10.2 and if they cannot get online update happening a bit better in 10.3 I will have to re-assess how much money I authorise for new hardware and other commercial software and spend it. Personally I want to keep Linux, however I don't have the luxury of personal preference to stand on P.S Good morning to all its 07:40 here (GMT+10) and its sweet to do a bit of work from home. Scott :-$ Rajko M. wrote:
On Saturday 14 April 2007 03:54, Registration Account wrote:
4. A sound confidence in that there are so many Evolution bugs that have been outstanding for a very long time 12 months +
The picture can be wrong if you look only in a number of bugs.
When you look in bug reports, there is a lot of bugs that is not easy to tell what to do as problem is reported by one person with not so common hardware or software configuration that no one else confirmed, bugs waiting for response from reporter for a long time, bugs waiting on response from upstream developers, overloaded developers not having time to check old bug reports, etc.
I guess that being busy is overall problem as you have time to check number of bugs, but not what they are, so you make your decision on facts that you have time to capture.
BTW, I'm not using Evolution, but 2 other posts in this thread that say they are satisfied with, made me wonder how can happen that Evolution has many open bugs, but still works good.
Then suse.de released its RC with a alpha test3 blocker still unresolved
I never run alpha, betas, or RCs.
Of everyone who replied they were happy to keep evolution could you please tell me if you are operating in a commercial work place?
Yes. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
4. A sound confidence in that there are so many Evolution bugs that have been outstanding for a very long time 12 months + The picture can be wrong if you look only in a number of bugs.
Agree, 115%. Looking at the bugzilla of a project to ascertain something meaningful about it is almost entirely useless and perhaps even misleading. (1) Some projects promote problem/bug/enhancement requests via Bugzilla more aggressively than others. In some projects only the developers actively use Bugzilla, in others users are encouraged to "contribute" to bugzilla. (2) More popular projects [and Evolution is about as popular as they get] will..... have more issues reported. (3) Different projects use Bugzilla differently - some use it just to track bugs, other use it to keep track of any kind of reported problem (even likely spurious ones). Others use it as a way to track "wishlist" item (that maybe only one user is interested in). (4) Some use bugzilla in a more passive way, where if you file a bug you also have to jangle a chain on the mailing list, etc... To gather any real meaning from Bugzilla you have to *really* know the psychology of a project; and the only people who know that are people who have been *involved* with the project for some time. In short - it is a useless tool for anything other than what it is. Bugzilla also misses (as does tools like Ohloh) all development around a project; for evolution this would be plugins and backends. Non-core development for many projects is quite significant. In short, as with all things in life, substantive findings are hard and grueling work.
When you look in bug reports, there is a lot of bugs that is not easy to tell what to do as problem is reported by one person with not so common hardware or software configuration that no one else confirmed, bugs waiting for response from reporter for a long time, bugs waiting on response from upstream developers,
This is all true; I see bugs all the time where I think "Huh?" because I have lots of users using the software-in-question right under my nose and have never seen anything like the issue being reported. This is especially bad when you have people using alpha/beta release of distributions, fringe distributions, etc... One has to get down to what libraries (and version) they are linking against, compiler version, etc.... Ugh! Most of the time it just isn't worth the effort - when there are allot of both bugs and interesting issues relevant to the large mainstream.
overloaded developers not having time to check old bug reports, etc.
Yes, and as a developer who spends a fair amount of time in bugzilla - BORING! <aside>The number of people who file bugs and then vanish or just don't respond to further inquiries is pretty significant. I've even seen people submit *patches* along with reports, but never surface either in bugzilla or mail lists again. Both weird and frustrating.</aside>
I guess that being busy is overall problem as you have time to check number of bugs, but not what they are, so you make your decision on facts that you have time to capture.
I think calling them "facts" is dubious, more like "impressions"; which may very well be false. "Facts" are hard won things, they are almost never [maybe absolutely never], derived from doing a scan or overview of data.
BTW, I'm not using Evolution, but 2 other posts in this thread that say they are satisfied with, made me wonder how can happen that Evolution has many open bugs, but still works good.
Because: a bug is not "a bug". It is much more complicated then that. That and to say that Evolution lacks "Continual Development and support" is preposterous. It gets updated all the time, and certainly with almost every GNOME release (every ~6 months). And "Development vision"??? Sounds nice, but totally a straw dog. Software has goals and purposes, people talking about vision don't belong within light years of a code repository. -- Adam Tauno Williams Network & Systems Administrator Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
<aside>The number of people who file bugs and then vanish or just don't respond to further inquiries is pretty significant. I've even seen people submit *patches* along with reports, but never surface either in bugzilla or mail lists again. Both weird and frustrating.</aside>
Actually, that last case doesn't surprise me. If someone submits a working patch, it means they personally no longer have the problem.
From their point of view, it's finished. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
<aside>The number of people who file bugs and then vanish or just don't respond to further inquiries is pretty significant. I've even seen people submit *patches* along with reports, but never surface either in bugzilla or mail lists again. Both weird and frustrating.</aside> Actually, that last case doesn't surprise me. If someone submits a working patch, it means they personally no longer have the problem. From their point of view, it's finished.
And that they completely do not understand Open Source. It isn't as straight forward as submitting "a patch that worked for me". Developers will frequently have questions about the patch, the patch will have been created incorrectly (suprisingly frequent), etc... You'd think someone who took the time to create a patch would be willing to respond to a few e-mails in order to get it upstream. -- -- Adam Tauno Williams Network & Systems Administrator Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 16 April 2007 06:34, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
<aside>The number of people who file bugs and then vanish or just don't respond to further inquiries is pretty significant. I've even seen people submit *patches* along with reports, but never surface either in bugzilla or mail lists again. Both weird and frustrating.</aside>
Actually, that last case doesn't surprise me. If someone submits a working patch, it means they personally no longer have the problem.
From their point of view, it's finished.
And that they completely do not understand Open Source. It isn't as straight forward as submitting "a patch that worked for me". Developers will frequently have questions about the patch, the patch will have been created incorrectly (suprisingly frequent), etc... You'd think someone who took the time to create a patch would be willing to respond to a few e-mails in order to get it upstream.
Adam, man that created patch or workaround and than never appears on bugzilla did good job anyway. They may have no time, will, interest, knowledge or even permission to dicuss further, but at least shared their experience. When you mentioned incorrectly created patches, that might be all they can do. Reading program source is not demandfull like writing the code. With trial and error they found what works, but if someone want to discuss other options they can't help him and for many reasons they don't want to state that. How many fixed the problem and never published the fix? They use free OS, but don't give back anything, keeping their knowledge for another opportunity to cash on it. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 16 April 2007, Rajko M. wrote:
How many fixed the problem and never published the fix?
Not many I bet, at least not for significant bugs. Perhaps trivial one liners.
They use free OS, but don't give back anything, keeping their knowledge for another opportunity to cash on it.
Or, alternatively, have no intent to cash in on it at all, just want to get their job done. You need only read about the demanding standards necessary for submitting patches (especially to the kernel tree) to know that you can't simply hand in a patch and expect it to see the light of day unless you are well versed in the mechanics and politics of that portion of the community. I suspect these imagined fixers-but-never-submitters were submitters at some point in the past who never got so much as a thanky thanky back, and decided it was not worth it. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On Monday 16 April 2007, Rajko M. wrote:
How many fixed the problem and never published the fix?
I suspect these imagined fixers-but-never-submitters were submitters at some point in the past who never got so much as a thanky thanky back, and decided it was not worth it.
Why don't people just put a patch on a website and supply a link? Then people can take it or leave it. I don't see how it could be made any easier. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
How many fixed the problem and never published the fix? I suspect these imagined fixers-but-never-submitters were submitters at some point in the past who never got so much as a thanky thanky back, and decided it was not worth it. Why don't people just put a patch on a website and supply a link? Then people can take it or leave it. I don't see how it could be made any easier.
Because developers will "leave it". They don't go hunting for patches; patches have to be submitted, usually via a system like Bugzilla. It will never make it upstream (into packaged versions) and thus will languish and be forgotten. A patch just out-there will be of little value. It very possibly won't apply to future versions or will become a bug if people do apply it. Bug/patch trackers and code repositories exist for very good reason. -- Adam Tauno Williams Network & Systems Administrator Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
How many fixed the problem and never published the fix?
I suspect these imagined fixers-but-never-submitters were submitters at some point in the past who never got so much as a thanky thanky back, and decided it was not worth it.
Why don't people just put a patch on a website and supply a link? Then people can take it or leave it. I don't see how it could be made any easier.
Because developers will "leave it". They don't go hunting for patches; patches have to be submitted, usually via a system like Bugzilla. It will never make it upstream (into packaged versions) and thus will languish and be forgotten.
A patch just out-there will be of little value. It very possibly won't apply to future versions or will become a bug if people do apply it. Bug/patch trackers and code repositories exist for very good reason And it would be no more hassle, bar creating the account and contact from others requesting changes, a version for new releases, etc, except
Adam Tauno Williams wrote: that the bug would be closed due to code quality (or would it? that seems to be what the poster above was suggesting). But the situation seems better in that someone trying to fix the problem would have the code for reference if they searched closed bugs (I must admit that wouldn't have occurred to me). I guess the main thing is for the developer to be specific about which kernel version it was made against. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 17 April 2007, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
A patch just out-there will be of little value. It very possibly won't apply to future versions or will become a bug if people do apply it. Bug/patch trackers and code repositories exist for very good reason.
Exactly so. But submitting patches to your Distro of choice ought to be fairly easy and let the distro's package manager decide if it fixes something upstream and submit it in a professional way. It does not seem reasonable that I, joe user, who can read a little bit of C should be submitting patches. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
A patch just out-there will be of little value. It very possibly won't apply to future versions or will become a bug if people do apply it. Bug/patch trackers and code repositories exist for very good reason. Exactly so. But submitting patches to your Distro of choice ought to be fairly easy and let the distro's package manager decide if it fixes something upstream and submit it in a professional way.
No, that won't work. If you expect the distro maintainer(s) to be the gatekeepers of all patches to included packages the system will grind to a nearly complete halt.
It does not seem reasonable that I, joe user, who can read a little bit of C should be submitting patches.
Wrong, that is the entire principle of Open Source. -- Adam Tauno Williams Network & Systems Administrator Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
It does not seem reasonable that I, joe user, who can read a little bit of C should be submitting patches.
Wrong, that is the entire principle of Open Source.
No it most certainly is not. You have a very flawed understanding of Open Source. Open source most certainly does not mean that software is patched by people who have no clue, or that those who do have a clue should have 98% of the valuable time they contribute wasted reading thru patches submitted by the clueless. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
John Andersen wrote:
On Monday 16 April 2007, Rajko M. wrote:
How many fixed the problem and never published the fix?
Not many I bet, at least not for significant bugs. Perhaps trivial one liners.
At least I do it quite often. I have submitted too many patches to projects where I got no reaction at all. (The latest one was OpenCA; boy, that code is in a bad state for a security-related software project.) Therefore, if this is a project where I didn't have contact before, I try the waters first and send a small patch that can be made with modest effort. If there comes no reaction (and I recognize that an email with "your patch is not used because we want to do it differently" is a reaction), I simply drop it and fix the irking bugs in my private copy. Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 17 April 2007 02:19, John Andersen wrote:
On Monday 16 April 2007, Rajko M. wrote:
How many fixed the problem and never published the fix?
Not many I bet, at least not for significant bugs. Perhaps trivial one liners.
Trivial one liner can be difference between working and not working code, so simplicity to solve problem doesn't mean that it should not be reported.
They use free OS, but don't give back anything, keeping their knowledge for another opportunity to cash on it.
Or, alternatively, have no intent to cash in on it at all, just want to get their job done.
Agree. That is the same case as those that fixed, but "have no time, will, interest, knowledge or even permission to dicuss further".
You need only to read about the demanding standards necessary for submitting patches (especially to the kernel tree) to know that you can't simply hand in a patch and expect it to see the light of day unless you are well versed in the mechanics and politics of that portion of the community.
I read the article about kernel patches, but I bet that a lot of bugs would be fixed if procedure wouldn't be so strict. The reasons for strick procedure are given in the same article, but on the other side who is going to take time to read article and create proper patch, for something like one liner?
I suspect these imagined fixers-but-never-submitters were submitters at some point in the past who never got so much as a thanky thanky back, and decided it was not worth it.
Some yes, for sure, but not all. -- Regards, Rajko. http://en.opensuse.org/Portal -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
How many fixed the problem and never published the fix? Not many I bet, at least not for significant bugs. Perhaps trivial one liners. Trivial one liner can be difference between working and not working code, so simplicity to solve problem doesn't mean that it should not be reported.
The "trivial one liner" is just a *rare* outlier that it barely merits consideration.
They use free OS, but don't give back anything, keeping their knowledge for another opportunity to cash on it. Or, alternatively, have no intent to cash in on it at all, just want to get their job done. Agree. That is the same case as those that fixed, but "have no time, will, interest, knowledge or even permission to dicuss further".
Which is just dumb since if you fix without sending upstream you will have to fix again, and again, and again.... The concept that not submitting a fix saves time is crazy; if you really want to save time then use packages, no way does patching and compiling your own code constitute efficient use of time.
You need only to read about the demanding standards necessary for submitting patches (especially to the kernel tree) to know that you can't simply hand in a patch and expect it to see the light of day unless you are well versed in the mechanics and politics of that portion of the community. I read the article about kernel patches, but I bet that a lot of bugs would be fixed if procedure wouldn't be so strict. The reasons for strick procedure are given in the same article, but on the other side who is going to take time to read article and create proper patch, for something like one liner?
You can toss out the concept of the "one liner" as it applies to almost nothing in reality. And I don't understand how this became about submitting patches to the kernel? It began as someone's diatribe against Evolution because of what they thought they saw in their Bugzilla and my pointing out this was bogus; Evolution is an application, not a kernel module. Personally, I want the standards for kernel code to be brutal - it is the base of the pillar. Even so, the number of contributors to the kernel manages to be pretty high.
I suspect these imagined fixers-but-never-submitters were submitters at some point in the past who never got so much as a thanky thanky back, and decided it was not worth it. Some yes, for sure, but not all.
I think that proportion is very low; and I'm more concerned with the "vanishing submitter" as I'll never even see the "fixers-but-never-submitters". The "fixers-but-never-submitters" just don't 'get it'. -- Adam Tauno Williams Network & Systems Administrator Consultant - http://www.whitemiceconsulting.com Developer - http://www.opengroupware.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 07:14 -0400, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
And I don't understand how this became about submitting patches to the kernel? It began as someone's diatribe against Evolution because of what they thought they saw in their Bugzilla and my pointing out this was bogus; Evolution is an application, not a kernel module. Personally, I want the standards for kernel code to be brutal - it is the base of the pillar. Even so, the number of contributors to the kernel manages to be pretty high.
I agree with your hope that the kernel remains in effect behind a critical block wall, patched with extreme caution... And this began with me thanking the Evolution guys for the password fix. It was hijacked from that thought onward... But I'll say again, Thanks! Tom in NM -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 18 April 2007, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:
Which is just dumb since if you fix without sending upstream you will have to fix again, and again, and again.... The concept that not submitting a fix saves time is crazy;
Not true. Most annoying bugs generally get fixed in the next release. In the case of Suse, even a submitted patch will not see the light of day till the next release unless its a security flaw. So the guy who fixes something really annoying but does not submit it (betting that a proper fix will come along in due time) is really not spending any more time than would be the case if he fixed it and then submitted it, and then hung around to answer the maintainers emails, and then FIXED IT AGAIN when the fix was undone by the next on-line-update which, as stated, only contains security fixes, not bug fixes. As for lamenting the disappearing submitter, I suggest that if the maintainer can't understand the fix, or at least prove to himself that it is good or bad, then it is either the wrong fix, or the wrong maintainer. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-04-14 at 18:54 +1000, Registration Account wrote:
Has anyone else left Evolution????????
Not me. Thunderbird and kmail both suck at imap accounts, which are all I have - even on my local machine. kmail and Thunderbird are both very very very slow and apparently single threaded when updating imap folders. Doing so blocks any other activity. Evolution has always done this well, seemingly in a thread that allows user interaction and other folder reading to continue undisturbed while imap folder changes are tracked. In addition, kmail does not track imap folder additions correctly. It is a known issue, which kmail developers claim is the fault of the imap server. Perhaps. But they are the only client that does not sort this out. Evolution is my first choice. Of course, before that it was tkrat and before that elm. So maybe I am just odd. -- Roger Oberholtzer OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST Ramböll Sverige AB Kapellgränd 7 P.O. Box 4205 SE-102 65 Stockholm, Sweden Tel: Int +46 8-615 60 20 Fax: Int +46 8-31 42 23 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2007-04-14 at 09:29 +0100, G.T.Smith wrote:
Clark P. Case wrote:
On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 23:22 -0600, Tom Patton wrote:
Just did my weekly update...Evolution patch to restore the password database works fine! I'm surprised I haven't seen any chatter about it on the list...perhaps I missed it.
Thanks, again!
Tom in NM
Ditto!! Now if we can kill the "Computer" menu bug and get someone on better ndiswrapper support... I just spent 2 hours after the kernel security update trying to wrestle the "Traditional with ifup" settings to play nice with my Belkin 54g USB adapter...
I would love for openSUSE to have a section on the site that was a "store" of sorts (informational only) for people like me who are too busy to run down the few wireless cards/adapters that actually work. I know it's been the topic of a number of threads, but if there were actual "endorsement" for a brand the manufacturers might thaw...
There is....
http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Network_Adapters_%28Wireless%29
But I would also suggest looking at...
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/
and the sourceforge ndiswrapper site. SuSE do supply a functional ndiswrapper, but getting drivers that actually work is bit more difficult. (Belkin do not get a good press on this). Curiously the drivers supplied by the manufacturer with card are not always the one that work under linux.
and there is the openSuSE mobile list
opensuse-mobile
which does discuss these issues...
Anyway, back to the topic. THANKS to everyone involved with killing that annoying issue!!!
Thanks for this list. I guess I just needed to look a little harder!! Really appreciate it! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (13)
-
Adam Tauno Williams -
Clark P. Case -
David Brodbeck -
G.T.Smith -
Joachim Schrod -
John Andersen -
Kenneth Schneider -
Rajko M. -
Registration Account -
Roger Oberholtzer -
rudolf -
Russell Jones -
Tom Patton