[opensuse] Incompatibility between Rufus and our Live ISOs
Hello, So, here it is what happened to me earlier today. Someone from the local LUG sent a message about him wanting to try Tumbleweed. He downloaded the live ISO, but it was not booting. Errors were some "dracut timeouts" and then the usual "problems-problems- problems, give CTRL-D for maintenance etc". He took the ISO from here: https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/tumbleweed I did some checks and tests, but could not help him much. Later, he came back announcing success in booting into the Live OS. Turns out, he used some Windows tool called "Rufus" for putting the ISO on an USB key. And, apparently, this tool has an history of being potentially (I think it depends on the options) doing stuff that makes our ISOs non-bootable. My friend claims to have just used the said tool, with the default set of options. This how he found out about the incompatibility: https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/529966-Usb-tumbleweed-does-not-go... Now, I had no idea such tool even existed, and I am not at all suggesting that we change anything in our ISOs because of it. It apparently is a quite famous image writing tool for Windows, and live ISOs of other distros apparently work well with it, but let's live this aside for now. In that forum thread, at some point there is this: "I think the openSUSE Live deserve a better explanation page, check for example the similar page for CentOS which warns users about this problem: https://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/InstallFromUSBkey " That page has a list of tools that can be used for "burning" images that work. The Fedora equivalent page is also pretty nice, and has the same information, right upfront: https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/download/ I think we should have something similar in our one. Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
Dario Faggioli wrote:
In that forum thread, at some point there is this:
"I think the openSUSE Live deserve a better explanation page, check for example the similar page for CentOS which warns users about this problem: https://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/InstallFromUSBkey "
That page has a list of tools that can be used for "burning" images that work.
The Fedora equivalent page is also pretty nice, and has the same information, right upfront: https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/download/
I think we should have something similar in our one.
We have this page: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick I don't have any Windows systems, I can't comment on how well it works for a Windows user. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (21.1°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
Per Jessen wrote:
We have this page: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick
I don't have any Windows systems, I can't comment on how well it works for a Windows user.
Sorry, there is a deicated page for Windows: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows Rufus has a separate section. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (20.3°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:58:17 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
We have this page: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick
I don't have any Windows systems, I can't comment on how well it works for a Windows user.
Sorry, there is a deicated page for Windows: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows
Rufus has a separate section.
Again, not even linked on the page in question, and apparently most likely out of date since it says 'These instructions were for versions earlier than Leap 42.x and may not work.' -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 18:37 +0100, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:58:17 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Sorry, there is a deicated page for Windows: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows
Rufus has a separate section.
Again, not even linked on the page in question, and apparently most likely out of date since it says 'These instructions were for versions earlier than Leap 42.x and may not work.'
Yep, that is exactly my main point. Also, interestingly enough, my friend that did not give up and actually tried to solve the problem, found that thread in the forum before than the piece of documentation (the Wiki page, in this case) that has the (although outdated) info in it. :-O Thanks and Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
[sorry if getting this in multiple copies, wrong email address] On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 18:58 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
We have this page: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick
I don't have any Windows systems, I can't comment on how well it works for a Windows user.
Sorry, there is a deicated page for Windows: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows
Right, thanks for the link.
Rufus has a separate section.
Exactly! :-D So (despite the fact that it *may* be necessary to double check if it's still accurate... e.g., I see "openSUSE 12.2" being mentioned, and I also don't have a Win setup for trying whether the rest of the info are valid) the info is there, somewhere, and that is great. I still think, though, that such info should be made a little bit more prominent and easy to reach. :-) And, of course, that doesn't mean to put an ugly *WARNING: Rufus users look here* banner on the IOS download page. We need to find a cool and fancy way of conveying the message. Oh, and sure, mine is just *one* *single* example, nothing statistically relevant at all. But I totally see how a potential new user may go like: - let's try this oS distro - download the Live ISO, to check it out - make a stick the way I do for all other Live ISO I try <doesn't even boot> - oh, well, let's try some other distro :-( And even if there's no real guarantee that putting a paragraph about this on the download page, or a link to that Wiki page would absolutely and 100% prevent that... well, at least it's something. :-) Thanks and Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
Dario Faggioli wrote:
[sorry if getting this in multiple copies, wrong email address]
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 18:58 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
We have this page: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick
I don't have any Windows systems, I can't comment on how well it works for a Windows user.
Sorry, there is a deicated page for Windows: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows
Right, thanks for the link.
Rufus has a separate section.
Exactly! :-D
So (despite the fact that it *may* be necessary to double check if it's still accurate... e.g., I see "openSUSE 12.2" being mentioned, and I also don't have a Win setup for trying whether the rest of the info are valid) the info is there, somewhere, and that is great.
I still think, though, that such info should be made a little bit more prominent and easy to reach. :-)
For that, we are relying entirely on people who want to "scratch that itch". I know, same old song again and again ....
And, of course, that doesn't mean to put an ugly *WARNING: Rufus users look here* banner on the IOS download page. We need to find a cool and fancy way of conveying the message.
Oh, and sure, mine is just *one* *single* example, nothing statistically relevant at all. But I totally see how a potential new user may go like: - let's try this oS distro - download the Live ISO, to check it out - make a stick the way I do for all other Live ISO I try <doesn't even boot> - oh, well, let's try some other distro :-(
One subtle suggestion - new users should probably not be trying out Tumbleweed, they ought to start with Leap. In my opinion. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.6°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - virtual servers, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:42:22 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Dario Faggioli wrote:
[sorry if getting this in multiple copies, wrong email address]
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 18:58 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Per Jessen wrote:
We have this page: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick
I don't have any Windows systems, I can't comment on how well it works for a Windows user.
Sorry, there is a deicated page for Windows: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows
Right, thanks for the link.
Rufus has a separate section.
Exactly! :-D
So (despite the fact that it *may* be necessary to double check if it's still accurate... e.g., I see "openSUSE 12.2" being mentioned, and I also don't have a Win setup for trying whether the rest of the info are valid) the info is there, somewhere, and that is great.
I still think, though, that such info should be made a little bit more prominent and easy to reach. :-)
For that, we are relying entirely on people who want to "scratch that itch". I know, same old song again and again ....
And, of course, that doesn't mean to put an ugly *WARNING: Rufus users look here* banner on the IOS download page. We need to find a cool and fancy way of conveying the message.
Oh, and sure, mine is just *one* *single* example, nothing statistically relevant at all. But I totally see how a potential new user may go like: - let's try this oS distro - download the Live ISO, to check it out - make a stick the way I do for all other Live ISO I try <doesn't even boot> - oh, well, let's try some other distro :-(
One subtle suggestion - new users should probably not be trying out Tumbleweed, they ought to start with Leap. In my opinion.
But the page doesn't say that ... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/09/2020 20.52, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:42:22 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
...
One subtle suggestion - new users should probably not be trying out Tumbleweed, they ought to start with Leap. In my opinion.
But the page doesn't say that ...
We are having that discussion for years. Some of us insist that Tumbleweed is not for novices, that we should make that clear. Others disagree, and things happen. :-( -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Dave Howorth wrote:
One subtle suggestion - new users should probably not be trying out Tumbleweed, they ought to start with Leap. In my opinion.
But the page doesn't say that ...
It was more intended as a hint to Dario. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (18.6°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 21:11 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
One subtle suggestion - new users should probably not be trying out Tumbleweed, they ought to start with Leap. In my opinion.
But the page doesn't say that ...
It was more intended as a hint to Dario.
Well, but there are many different kind of "new users", I think. There are "new users" that are new to Linux in general, which I guess one may argue (although I'm not really sure I agree :-D) they better start with trying Leap. There are also "new users" that are "new" just to openSUSE, that have previous experience with other distros, that know that the kind of distro the like the most are the rolling one, and hence want to try the rolling variant of openSUSE (and in fact, me, ~ two years ago, was that kind of new openSUSE user :-D). You can argue that such kind of new users are less likely to have to write an ISO from Windows... And I think I agree with that. But this brings me the the point: is this related to the "issue" at hand? As in, if the guy from my story had tried to make a Leap Live USB key, downloading Leap from this page: https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap and writing it with that Rufus thing, that would have probably failed in the very same way. Wouldn't it? Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
On 18/09/2020 22.51, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 21:11 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
...
But this brings me the the point: is this related to the "issue" at hand? As in, if the guy from my story had tried to make a Leap Live USB key, downloading Leap from this page:
https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap
and writing it with that Rufus thing, that would have probably failed in the very same way. Wouldn't it?
Just do a search for the "Windows" word in that page and you see the link with explanations on how to create the USB stick from Windows :-) "How to create a Bootable USB stick on Windows." The link is there, so the question is why did you not see it? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 22:57 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/09/2020 22.51, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 21:11 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
...
But this brings me the the point: is this related to the "issue" at hand? As in, if the guy from my story had tried to make a Leap Live USB key, downloading Leap from this page:
https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap
and writing it with that Rufus thing, that would have probably failed in the very same way. Wouldn't it?
Just do a search for the "Windows" word in that page and you see the link with explanations on how to create the USB stick from Windows :- )
Just click on the "Live" tab, and do the same.
"How to create a Bootable USB stick on Windows."
0/0 results. :-P Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
On 18/09/2020 23.10, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 22:57 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/09/2020 22.51, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 21:11 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
...
But this brings me the the point: is this related to the "issue" at hand? As in, if the guy from my story had tried to make a Leap Live USB key, downloading Leap from this page:
https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap
and writing it with that Rufus thing, that would have probably failed in the very same way. Wouldn't it?
Just do a search for the "Windows" word in that page and you see the link with explanations on how to create the USB stick from Windows :- )
Just click on the "Live" tab, and do the same.
Ah, live tab, you did not say that.
"How to create a Bootable USB stick on Windows."
0/0 results. :-P
Gotcha. :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 23:32 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/09/2020 23.10, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 22:57 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Just do a search for the "Windows" word in that page and you see the link with explanations on how to create the USB stick from Windows :- )
Just click on the "Live" tab, and do the same.
Ah, live tab, you did not say that.
Yeah, I think I did at least when telling the "original story", in the first email. But indeed I could have stated it again, and made it clearer I was referring to that in the rest of the thread as well! :-) Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 23:32:28 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 18/09/2020 23.10, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 22:57 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/09/2020 22.51, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 21:11 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Dave Howorth wrote:
...
But this brings me the the point: is this related to the "issue" at hand? As in, if the guy from my story had tried to make a Leap Live USB key, downloading Leap from this page:
https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap
and writing it with that Rufus thing, that would have probably failed in the very same way. Wouldn't it?
Just do a search for the "Windows" word in that page and you see the link with explanations on how to create the USB stick from Windows :- )
But even on the 'Installation' tab, you have to actively search for Windows or scroll all the way down past the actual links you're interested in before you even see 'Documentation' let alone the hint that there's even something to read about Windows, let alone any suggestion that you NEED to read it because what you already think you know won't work. Compare against the pages provided by the other distros. It's another case where some 'style monster' has designed the page - the top half of the window is basically solid green on my display. What a waste of space.
Just click on the "Live" tab, and do the same.
Ah, live tab, you did not say that.
"How to create a Bootable USB stick on Windows."
Even if I read that page, before I get to the interesting bit, I see: "Version: 12.2+ This applies to openSUSE 12.2 and above. "Warning: While these instructions might work for others distributions, it's recommended to check the desired distribution's own wiki to avoid any problem." So at that point I'm thinking, I need to find the 15.2 wiki before I do anything else and check what it says. Now how do I do that? So I end up at https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:15.2 and it says nothing about Windows. So I look for installation, and it sends me to https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Installation which sends me back to the original Leap page or to https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick (note the subtly different address) and that eventually sends me to the Bootable USB Windows page, all without reassuring me that the procedure will work on 15.2.
0/0 results. :-P
Gotcha. :-)
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/09/2020 20.00, Dario Faggioli wrote: ...
Rufus has a separate section.
Exactly! :-D
So (despite the fact that it *may* be necessary to double check if it's still accurate... e.g., I see "openSUSE 12.2" being mentioned, and I also don't have a Win setup for trying whether the rest of the info are valid) the info is there, somewhere, and that is great.
I still think, though, that such info should be made a little bit more prominent and easy to reach. :-)
It is - for Leap.
And, of course, that doesn't mean to put an ugly *WARNING: Rufus users look here* banner on the IOS download page. We need to find a cool and fancy way of conveying the message.
Oh, and sure, mine is just *one* *single* example, nothing statistically relevant at all. But I totally see how a potential new user may go like:
Hum.
- let's try this oS distro - download the Live ISO, to check it out - make a stick the way I do for all other Live ISO I try <doesn't even boot> - oh, well, let's try some other distro :-(
And even if there's no real guarantee that putting a paragraph about this on the download page, or a link to that Wiki page would absolutely and 100% prevent that... well, at least it's something. :-)
Hum: Tumbleweed is not for novices, IMNSHO. They should try Leap instead >:-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:53:58 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 18/09/2020 20.00, Dario Faggioli wrote:
...
Rufus has a separate section.
Exactly! :-D
So (despite the fact that it *may* be necessary to double check if it's still accurate... e.g., I see "openSUSE 12.2" being mentioned, and I also don't have a Win setup for trying whether the rest of the info are valid) the info is there, somewhere, and that is great.
I still think, though, that such info should be made a little bit more prominent and easy to reach. :-)
It is - for Leap.
Eh? https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap where?
And, of course, that doesn't mean to put an ugly *WARNING: Rufus users look here* banner on the IOS download page. We need to find a cool and fancy way of conveying the message.
Oh, and sure, mine is just *one* *single* example, nothing statistically relevant at all. But I totally see how a potential new user may go like:
Hum.
- let's try this oS distro - download the Live ISO, to check it out - make a stick the way I do for all other Live ISO I try <doesn't even boot> - oh, well, let's try some other distro :-(
And even if there's no real guarantee that putting a paragraph about this on the download page, or a link to that Wiki page would absolutely and 100% prevent that... well, at least it's something. :-)
Hum: Tumbleweed is not for novices, IMNSHO. They should try Leap instead >:-)
But the Leap and the Tumbleweed pages should say that then! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/09/2020 21.57, Dave Howorth wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 20:53:58 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:
On 18/09/2020 20.00, Dario Faggioli wrote:
...
Rufus has a separate section.
Exactly! :-D
So (despite the fact that it *may* be necessary to double check if it's still accurate... e.g., I see "openSUSE 12.2" being mentioned, and I also don't have a Win setup for trying whether the rest of the info are valid) the info is there, somewhere, and that is great.
I still think, though, that such info should be made a little bit more prominent and easy to reach. :-)
It is - for Leap.
I posted where in another post. I paste: <https://www.opensuse.org/> --> Leap - Install. <https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap> Down the page: From Windows How to burn a DVD on Windows. How to create a Bootable USB stick on Windows.
And, of course, that doesn't mean to put an ugly *WARNING: Rufus users look here* banner on the IOS download page. We need to find a cool and fancy way of conveying the message.
Oh, and sure, mine is just *one* *single* example, nothing statistically relevant at all. But I totally see how a potential new user may go like:
Hum.
- let's try this oS distro - download the Live ISO, to check it out - make a stick the way I do for all other Live ISO I try <doesn't even boot> - oh, well, let's try some other distro :-(
And even if there's no real guarantee that putting a paragraph about this on the download page, or a link to that Wiki page would absolutely and 100% prevent that... well, at least it's something. :-)
Hum: Tumbleweed is not for novices, IMNSHO. They should try Leap instead >:-)
But the Leap and the Tumbleweed pages should say that then!
I agree. Basically was outvoted. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 22:17 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/09/2020 21.57, Dave Howorth wrote:
It is - for Leap.
I posted where in another post. I paste:
<https://www.opensuse.org/> --> Leap - Install.
<https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap>
Down the page:
From Windows How to burn a DVD on Windows. How to create a Bootable USB stick on Windows.
Ok, I see it now. So, if I want the Live, I need to do: - https://www.opensuse.org - click "Install Leap" - https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap - click "Live" - start downloading http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.2/live/openSUSE-Leap-15.2-... - click "Installation" - go down - find the "https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows" Well, I can't argue that the information is not there, I agree. I'm not sure I consider this something linear and reasonable, but I'm not at an UI/UX expert, so maybe it actually is. :-)
Hum: Tumbleweed is not for novices, IMNSHO. They should try Leap instead >:-)
But the Leap and the Tumbleweed pages should say that then!
I agree. Basically was outvoted.
Ok, so, kind of hiding the info that some Windows tools may fail writing Tumbleweed ISOs, is a basically a way for discouraging users coming from Windows to try Tumbleweed directly, and sneakily driving them toward understanding that they should go for Leap firts ? Wow! This is certainly something I didn't understood... :-O Regards -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
On 18/09/2020 23.06, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 22:17 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/09/2020 21.57, Dave Howorth wrote:
It is - for Leap.
I posted where in another post. I paste:
<https://www.opensuse.org/> --> Leap - Install.
<https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap>
Down the page:
From Windows How to burn a DVD on Windows. How to create a Bootable USB stick on Windows.
Ok, I see it now.
So, if I want the Live, I need to do:
- https://www.opensuse.org - click "Install Leap" - https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap - click "Live" - start downloading http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/leap/15.2/live/openSUSE-Leap-15.2-... - click "Installation" - go down - find the "https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows"
Well, I can't argue that the information is not there, I agree.
I'm not sure I consider this something linear and reasonable, but I'm not at an UI/UX expert, so maybe it actually is. :-)
But the "Live" tab should have this info as well. I don't know why it doesn't.
Hum: Tumbleweed is not for novices, IMNSHO. They should try Leap instead >:-)
But the Leap and the Tumbleweed pages should say that then!
I agree. Basically was outvoted.
Ok, so, kind of hiding the info that some Windows tools may fail writing Tumbleweed ISOs, is a basically a way for discouraging users coming from Windows to try Tumbleweed directly, and sneakily driving them toward understanding that they should go for Leap firts ?
Wow! This is certainly something I didn't understood... :-O
Well, you are right, the information should be there for all versions. I don't know who can change that, that section is not a wiki. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 23:35 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/09/2020 23.06, Dario Faggioli wrote:
I'm not sure I consider this something linear and reasonable, but I'm not at an UI/UX expert, so maybe it actually is. :-)
But the "Live" tab should have this info as well. I don't know why it doesn't.
Yep, I also think it should be there too.
Ok, so, kind of hiding the info that some Windows tools may fail writing Tumbleweed ISOs, is a basically a way for discouraging users coming from Windows to try Tumbleweed directly, and sneakily driving them toward understanding that they should go for Leap firts ?
Wow! This is certainly something I didn't understood... :-O
Well, you are right, the information should be there for all versions. I don't know who can change that, that section is not a wiki.
Ah, glad to find out that we actually are in agreement! :-) I don't know either how to change that. That's why I posted here... Let's see what other think, and if we can figure that out. Thanks and Regards PS. Oh, and let me state that I still think that Tumbleweed can be good for newcomers too! (In fact... I mean... if we were to agree on everything, where would all the fun be!?! :-P) -- Dario Faggioli, Ph.D http://about.me/dario.faggioli Virtualization Software Engineer SUSE Labs, SUSE https://www.suse.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- <<This happens because _I_ choose it to happen!>> (Raistlin Majere)
On 9/18/20 6:51 PM, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 23:35 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 18/09/2020 23.06, Dario Faggioli wrote:
I'm not sure I consider this something linear and reasonable, but I'm not at an UI/UX expert, so maybe it actually is. :-) But the "Live" tab should have this info as well. I don't know why it doesn't.
Yep, I also think it should be there too.
Ok, so, kind of hiding the info that some Windows tools may fail writing Tumbleweed ISOs, is a basically a way for discouraging users coming from Windows to try Tumbleweed directly, and sneakily driving them toward understanding that they should go for Leap firts ?
Wow! This is certainly something I didn't understood... :-O Well, you are right, the information should be there for all versions. I don't know who can change that, that section is not a wiki.
Ah, glad to find out that we actually are in agreement! :-)
I don't know either how to change that. That's why I posted here... Let's see what other think, and if we can figure that out.
Thanks and Regards
PS. Oh, and let me state that I still think that Tumbleweed can be good for newcomers too!
(In fact... I mean... if we were to agree on everything, where would all the fun be!?! :-P) Something that others haven't mentioned: Windows is very fussy about using any USB flash drive that has been (ever) formatted in a Linux machine. I found that Windows will not format the thing. At least the most recent Windows 10 version that came on a computer I bought in June 2020. So you may need a brand-new USB drive to load your install software on. Windows--ech! --doug
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On 19/09/2020 04.45, Doug McGarrett wrote:
On 9/18/20 6:51 PM, Dario Faggioli wrote:
On Fri, 2020-09-18 at 23:35 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Something that others haven't mentioned: Windows is very fussy about using any USB flash drive that has been (ever) formatted in a Linux machine. I found that Windows will not format the thing. At least the most recent Windows 10 version that came on a computer I bought in June 2020. So you may need a brand-new USB drive to load your install software on. Windows--ech!
Well, this may be an overreaction to the age old problem of Windows offering to format a Linux partition with data on sight, destroying it. Anyway, somewhere in the wiki there are instructions on how to recover an USB stick that was used to install openSUSE - I know because I was one of the chaps writing those instructions, but I don't know where they are now. Ah, found the paragraph: <https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick#How_to_recover_the_USB_stick_for_.22normal.22_use_again> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 18:49:21 +0200 Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Dario Faggioli wrote:
In that forum thread, at some point there is this:
"I think the openSUSE Live deserve a better explanation page, check for example the similar page for CentOS which warns users about this problem: https://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/InstallFromUSBkey "
That page has a list of tools that can be used for "burning" images that work.
The Fedora equivalent page is also pretty nice, and has the same information, right upfront: https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/download/
I think we should have something similar in our one.
We have this page: https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Live_USB_stick
That starts out by talking about Leap only, but does actually include a TW link. (I have no idea whether any of them work) More to the point, there's not even a link to it on the page that Dario linked, let alone any information to make you think you NEED to click on it. I agree with Dario - the download page should be more idiot proof. i.e. contain information relevant for µs and Apple people who want to try openSUSE.
I don't have any Windows systems, I can't comment on how well it works for a Windows user.
Me neither. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
On 18/09/2020 18.37, Dario Faggioli wrote: ...
I think we should have something similar in our one.
And we do: <https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows#Using_Rufus> I think the page is still correct, but if you think it should be corrected, we need someone that uses Windows to test it ;-) <https://www.opensuse.org/> --> Leap - Install. <https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap> Down the page: From Windows How to burn a DVD on Windows. How to create a Bootable USB stick on Windows. <https://www.opensuse.org/> --> Tumbleweed - Install. I don't see the instructions there, but hey, Tumbleweed is for experts, IMNSHO. >:-P -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 9/18/20 11:37 AM, Dario Faggioli wrote:
Now, I had no idea such tool even existed, and I am not at all suggesting that we change anything in our ISOs because of it.
It apparently is a quite famous image writing tool for Windows, and live ISOs of other distros apparently work well with it, but let's live this aside for now.
It is.... I don't use windows at all, but I have used rufus in the times that I do and I'd wager that if you took a current poll of all windows users likely to try Linux in the next year and what tool they would use to write an image to a usb-stick, the result would likely be more than 50% planned on using rufus. Which brings us back to your first paragraph above. If we can fix the iso so that it is compatible with this tool -- that would be the optimal solution. I have no clue what our .iso has that causes the problem, but if you can identify that and it isn't much effort to fix -- it would be worth it. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E.
On 19/09/2020 05.15, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 9/18/20 11:37 AM, Dario Faggioli wrote:
Now, I had no idea such tool even existed, and I am not at all suggesting that we change anything in our ISOs because of it.
It apparently is a quite famous image writing tool for Windows, and live ISOs of other distros apparently work well with it, but let's live this aside for now.
It is....
I don't use windows at all, but I have used rufus in the times that I do and I'd wager that if you took a current poll of all windows users likely to try Linux in the next year and what tool they would use to write an image to a usb-stick, the result would likely be more than 50% planned on using rufus.
Which brings us back to your first paragraph above. If we can fix the iso so that it is compatible with this tool -- that would be the optimal solution. I have no clue what our .iso has that causes the problem, but if you can identify that and it isn't much effort to fix -- it would be worth it.
No, they just have to click the right options in Rufus so that it behaves like 'dd'. The wiki has the instructions, but on another page: <https://www.opensuse.org/> --> Leap - Install. <https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap> Down the page: From Windows How to burn a DVD on Windows. How to create a Bootable USB stick on Windows. --> <https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Create_a_Live_USB_stick_using_Windows#Using_Rufus> -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
On 9/19/20 2:32 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 19/09/2020 05.15, David C. Rankin wrote:
On 9/18/20 11:37 AM, Dario Faggioli wrote:
Now, I had no idea such tool even existed, and I am not at all suggesting that we change anything in our ISOs because of it.
It apparently is a quite famous image writing tool for Windows, and live ISOs of other distros apparently work well with it, but let's live this aside for now.
It is....
I don't use windows at all, but I have used rufus in the times that I do and I'd wager that if you took a current poll of all windows users likely to try Linux in the next year and what tool they would use to write an image to a usb-stick, the result would likely be more than 50% planned on using rufus. /skip/
I mentioned in another post that Windows 10 is fussy about formatting anything that has ever been used for Linux--that's why Rufus. And we know that Rufus doesn't seem to like OpenSUSE--or vice versa. Here's a tool for Windows that will format a flash-drive in Windows: HP USB Storage Format Tool. Download is free. It will create FAT, Fat32, or NTFS. It takes *forever* but it works. I formatted a Linux-used 16 GiB stick to FAT32 and it took literally hours on a reasonably fast computer in the latest version of Windows 10. Gparted shows a completely clean blank partition on the whole unit. Be aware that you have to become Administrator on Windows to install the file. The way that worked for me is as follows: 1. Windows key + r to get a run command.* Type nelplwiz. Enter. 2. Select user account, click properties button. Click Group Membership tab. 3. Choose account type: standard user or ADMINISTRATOR Click OK. I found that I had to right-click the install (exe) file to get it to work--left click said need administrator status to run the file. *If you don't have a Windows key--as I don't, using an old IBM keyboard-- the work-around is left-ctrl + esc. --doug -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Dario Faggioli -
Dave Howorth -
David C. Rankin -
Doug McGarrett -
Per Jessen