So, where are the SuSE 8.2 reviews? I mean, if we're going to have to wait months apparantly for it to be available retail (RedHat 9 was on the shelf at Fry's today, but no SuSE, even though SuSE only releases discs and supposedly "plans" for distribution in this manner) I'd be interested to hear if it's worth the upgrade. Preston
Distrowatch.com only has two reviews of SuSE 8.2 so far: http://www.madpenguin.org/article.php?sid=126&mode=thread&order=0 http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3163 The reviews are what you would expect for a small bump in version number. Distribution of SuSE in the USA is always going to be behind Red Hat. SuSE did cut most of their USA staff last year, it has been bad times for all Linux companies. Red Hat and SuSE are hovering around the break even point. Nobody is getting rich selling a distro. http://www.distrowatch.com/index.php?distribution=SuSE&month=all&year=all On Sunday 20 April 2003 12:33 am, me@prestoncrawford.com wrote:
So, where are the SuSE 8.2 reviews? I mean, if we're going to have to wait months apparantly for it to be available retail (RedHat 9 was on the shelf at Fry's today, but no SuSE, even though SuSE only releases discs and supposedly "plans" for distribution in this manner) I'd be interested to hear if it's worth the upgrade.
Preston
Paul Benjamin wrote:
Distrowatch.com only has two reviews of SuSE 8.2 so far:
http://www.madpenguin.org/article.php?sid=126&mode=thread&order=0 http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3163
The reviews are what you would expect for a small bump in version number. Distribution of SuSE in the USA is always going to be behind Red Hat. SuSE did cut most of their USA staff last year, it has been bad times for all Linux companies. Red Hat and SuSE are hovering around the break even point. Nobody is getting rich selling a distro.
http://www.distrowatch.com/index.php?distribution=SuSE&month=all&year=all
SuSE Oakland has hired several people since, and in early summer is moving into a larger office... some very large companies have started ordering products and support, reason is the interest from the S&P 500 has grown significantly. Michael
That is good to hear. I love SuSE mainly because it is the only distribution that I found that tries to put programs in an orderly way. I hated when everything got dumped in c:\windows ten years ago and don't thing dumping everything in /usr/bin is much smarter. I hope that SuSE and Linux prospers. pben On Sunday 20 April 2003 09:46 am, Michael Hasenstein wrote:
SuSE Oakland has hired several people since, and in early summer is moving into a larger office... some very large companies have started ordering products and support, reason is the interest from the S&P 500 has grown significantly.
Michael
Yes, I agree wholeheartedly, SuSE is a nice distro, and I am happy to hear that SuSE prospers in the USA. Unfortunately I have to say : - First : I am very disappointed that SuSE forgot the French Market. I know SuSE france was closed down due to new strategy and economical reason, but is really unbelievable that such companies like SuSE forget the French (and on a wider view : Quebec, Belgium and French Switzerland) market. They (SuSE staff) don't bother even to show their products on Linux Expos if it is located in France. May be French market is not viable though. But MandrakeSoft is unfortunately dying and Redhat is well implanted in France. - Second : I have SuSE 8.0 Pro and I noticed that the support from SuSE is not as good as it was 3 years ago : I experienced lot of problems with SuSE 6.3 (I was a newbie) and they helped me even if the question was not covered in the support (like SDL or multimedias libraries, printers, and so on). moreover, they responde dvery quickly (2 days or 3) Now when I asked question (it was 10 months ago), I almost never received satisfaction : either the subject was not covered or I never received response. I don't know now. Fortunately I discovered (thanks to SuSE indeed) I discovered this mailing list and I am happy. I like SuSE distro : LSB compliant, scripts understandable, very well structured, almost no major problems (Example : On redhat 8 it is impossible at work to install Quake 3 demo or even to use a Digital Camera (that craches the Redhat System) whereas on SuSE 8.1 everything goes smoothly). The only problem I got was the impossible way to generate my self Gnome 2.2 RPM for SuSE from sources, because I am not experienced enough to write my own spec for some tar.gz packages (I don't want to install Gnome 2.2 directly from sources though, I want to keep a clean distro because I work on it) If the support and Commercial department were as good as the engineer department from SuSE, I am sure this distro would be more known. This is not a troll, I don't undestand the politic of SuSE. Paul Benjamin wrote:
That is good to hear. I love SuSE mainly because it is the only distribution that I found that tries to put programs in an orderly way. I hated when everything got dumped in c:\windows ten years ago and don't thing dumping everything in /usr/bin is much smarter.
I hope that SuSE and Linux prospers.
pben
On Sunday 20 April 2003 09:46 am, Michael Hasenstein wrote:
SuSE Oakland has hired several people since, and in early summer is moving into a larger office... some very large companies have started ordering products and support, reason is the interest from the S&P 500 has grown significantly.
Michael
*** Reply to message from me@prestoncrawford.com on Sat, 19 Apr 2003 22:33:45 -0700 (PDT)***
I'd be interested to hear if it's worth the upgrade.
by "someone" I presume you don't mean any of us here on this list?? It seems most have spoken in glowing terms about teh value of htis upgrade or whatever ... -- j Afterthought : If it is not there, it does not exist.
I think I found someone who doesn't like SuSE. Poor Dennis E. Powell has the install from hell for SuSE 8.2. http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=333 Why when it went so smoothly for me did he have so many problems? But then I gave up serial port mice eight years ago! pben On Sunday 20 April 2003 12:33 am, me@prestoncrawford.com wrote:
So, where are the SuSE 8.2 reviews? I mean, if we're going to have to wait months apparantly for it to be available retail (RedHat 9 was on the shelf at Fry's today, but no SuSE, even though SuSE only releases discs and supposedly "plans" for distribution in this manner) I'd be interested to hear if it's worth the upgrade.
Preston
On Saturday 26 April 2003 13:05, Paul Benjamin wrote:
I think I found someone who doesn't like SuSE. Poor Dennis E. Powell has the install from hell for SuSE 8.2.
http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=333
I used to quite like reading dep's stuff, but these days whatever he writes is just a pile of whining. He went from useful, informative KDE stuff to honking about why he doesn't like it or the way the developers act anymore. I read about half of this SuSE-8.2 article before it became apparent it was just a load of complaining from start to finish. Why does he think readers will get entertainment out of this kind of tedious drivel? Tell SuSE if their product doesn't work, and if they don't fix it move to the competition. I wasted 5 minutes reading this "article". On the bright side, I stopped half way down so at least I can say I didn't waste another 5. -- "...our desktop is falling behind stability-wise and feature wise to KDE ...when I went to Mexico in December to the facility where we launched gnome, they had all switched to KDE3." - Miguel de Icaza, March 2003
On Saturday 26 April 2003 6:33 am, Derek Fountain wrote:
On Saturday 26 April 2003 13:05, Paul Benjamin wrote:
I think I found someone who doesn't like SuSE. Poor Dennis E. Powell has the install from hell for SuSE 8.2.
http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=333
I used to quite like reading dep's stuff, but these days whatever he writes is just a pile of whining. He went from useful, informative KDE stuff to honking about why he doesn't like it or the way the developers act anymore.
I read about half of this SuSE-8.2 article before it became apparent it was just a load of complaining from start to finish. Why does he think readers will get entertainment out of this kind of tedious drivel? Tell SuSE if their product doesn't work, and if they don't fix it move to the competition.
I wasted 5 minutes reading this "article". On the bright side, I stopped half way down so at least I can say I didn't waste another 5.
and now I'll probably have to spend some months fighting this article in comp.os.linux.advocacy when the wintrolls get a hold of it... :( they just love stories like that one... so much material for them to base their fictictious own SuSE experiences off of...
and now I'll probably have to spend some months fighting this article in comp.os.linux.advocacy when the wintrolls get a hold of it... :( they just love stories like that one... so much material for them to base their fictictious own SuSE experiences off of...
Now that sounds like a total waste of time! Advocacy only works on people who are genuinely interested. Getting into a slanging match with people who just want to argue is pointless. -- "...our desktop is falling behind stability-wise and feature wise to KDE ...when I went to Mexico in December to the facility where we launched gnome, they had all switched to KDE3." - Miguel de Icaza, March 2003
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 26 April 2003 00:33 am, Derek Fountain wrote:
On Saturday 26 April 2003 13:05, Paul Benjamin wrote:
I think I found someone who doesn't like SuSE. Poor Dennis E. Powell has the install from hell for SuSE 8.2.
http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=333
I used to quite like reading dep's stuff, but these days whatever he writes is just a pile of whining. He went from useful, informative KDE stuff to honking about why he doesn't like it or the way the developers act anymore.
I read about half of this SuSE-8.2 article before it became apparent it was just a load of complaining from start to finish. Why does he think readers will get entertainment out of this kind of tedious drivel? Tell SuSE if their product doesn't work, and if they don't fix it move to the competition.
I wasted 5 minutes reading this "article". On the bright side, I stopped half way down so at least I can say I didn't waste another 5.
-- "...our desktop is falling behind stability-wise and feature wise to KDE ...when I went to Mexico in December to the facility where we launched gnome, they had all switched to KDE3." - Miguel de Icaza, March 2003
Yep, the last few reviews by dep have been essentially bashing. I fail to see how novice and noob alike can get this running, as well as intermediates (such as myself) and the long time admins of the big guns get it running with little or no hassle. But everytime I read anything dep puts out lately it seems as if he goes out of his way to over complicate the install/config. And this inevitably leads to failures that he rips into with reckless abandon. I thing he makes things much more difficult than the really are and I fail to see why he can't just install and work up the config as he goes. Seems as if he's trying to do a very advanced setup from the get go and stumbles everytime. Oh Well. Cheers, Curtis. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+qowK7WVLiDrqeksRAl27AKCEDUnLV7fKwCvJqqqcEPpeAHng7QCfT9Fa subGDEOlgGS373ubmssYjv8= =xwFF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Paul Benjamin
http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=333
Why when it went so smoothly for me did he have so many problems? But then I gave up serial port mice eight years ago!
Something strange there. I've installed 8.2 on two systems that have no modem, once as a clean install and once as an upgrade (from 8.0). There was no problem with the system hanging looking for a modem in either case, nor was there any problem with the serial mouse. It just worked. The upgrade was (apparently) flawless. The only hitch was that there were 24 apps (out of 500+) that had conflicts. It took some back-and-forth before getting the conflicts down to a reasonable number and then deleting a few offenders. After that, it upgraded in about 1:20 from the CDs (7+GB on the disk) with no problems that I've discovered. It's _much_ easier than configuring after a clean install. I didn't have to configure anything: I accepted the default 1280x1024 screen for the install and now it boots to the 1600x1200 used before. Even the network worked with no new configuration. The 8.0 system had LILO and sendmail, and that's what the 8.2 system has (I didn't notice an option to change to GRUB and postfix -- didn't want to anyway). The mobo is a dual P3, and the SMP kernel was automatically installed. Both the SCSI and IDE disks were correctly recognized and dual-boot still works. I've done a few upgrades before and this is the 1st that seems as good as a clean install -- and it's ever so much easier than the week(s) of tweaking it takes me to get a new install set up the way I want it. Excellent job SuSE team! PS: the initial CD boot was with "acpi=off". It was not set on the 2nd boot. -rex
On Saturday 26 April 2003 01:05 am, Paul Benjamin wrote: | I think I found someone who doesn't like SuSE. actually, i love suse. i hate yast. and the mouse was the least of the problems. if there were a way to disable hardware probing at install time, it would very likely have gone just fine. -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com
On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 07:27, dep wrote:
On Saturday 26 April 2003 01:05 am, Paul Benjamin wrote: | I think I found someone who doesn't like SuSE.
actually, i love suse. i hate yast. and the mouse was the least of the problems. if there were a way to disable hardware probing at install time, it would very likely have gone just fine. -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com
What's wrong with YaST? It does the job, as far as I'm concerned. It's funny, I try nearly every distro. I always come running back to SuSE, though, because it gets the job done. 8.2 is so good that (minus the missing AvantGo conduit for my Palm) I may not need to upgrade for quite a while. Preston
I hate Yast too because it is slow and it keeps SuSE for being circulated like you can Red Hat (oops I can't call it Red Hat if I do that), Mandrake or Debian. I can't complain too much about it not finding my hardware. I wonder if you have tried Knoppix on your hardware and if it was as bad. The first thing I did when I finally got a cable modem last month was gab an iso as see if it really worked. It found everything on my notebook including the wi-fi connection. It makes me look at Debian again, if only they put their programs in reasonable locations instead of dumping everything in /usr/bin. On Saturday 26 April 2003 09:27 am, dep wrote:
On Saturday 26 April 2003 01:05 am, Paul Benjamin wrote: | I think I found someone who doesn't like SuSE.
actually, i love suse. i hate yast. and the mouse was the least of the problems. if there were a way to disable hardware probing at install time, it would very likely have gone just fine. -- dep http://www.linuxandmain.com
In a previous message, Paul Benjamin wrote:
I hate Yast too because it is slow and it keeps SuSE for being circulated like you can Red Hat [snip], Mandrake or Debian.
Why? You can give it away all you like, you just can't copy the disks and *sell* them. Also, I've never noticed YaST being slow. YOU can be slow, but it's much better now, especially if you use an http server rather than an ftp one. Indeed, I regard YaST extremely highly - it's a fantastic tool. Of course, if you prefer the style of one of the other distros' tools, that's perfectly understandable, but that's not a lack in YaST. And as for its not finding hardware, SuSE (and hence YaST) is, as I understand it, pretty much the best distro for finding hardware so you'd be unlikely to do much better overall by switching. John -- John Pettigrew Headstrong Games john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the bank Knossos: escape the ever-changing labyrinth before the Minotaur catches you!
On Saturday 26 April 2003 01:28 pm, John Pettigrew wrote:
Why? You can give it away all you like, you just can't copy the disks and *sell* them.
It looks to me you can't do anything on CD or DVD without SuSE approval for sell or give away in the USA. http://www.suse.com/us/private/support/licenses/yast.html Dissemination It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have been reproduced without authorization for payment without the prior written consent of SuSE Linux AG or SuSE Linux. Distribution of the YaST programme, its sources, whether amended or unamended in full or in part thereof, and the works derived thereof for a charge require the prior written consent of SuSE Linux AG. All programmes derived from YaST, and all works derived thereof as a whole or parts thereof may only be disseminated with the amended sources and this licence in accordance with 2b). Making YaST or works derived thereof available free of charge together with SuSE Linux on FTP Servers and mailboxes is permitted if the licences on the software are observed.
Also, I've never noticed YaST being slow. YOU can be slow, but it's much better now, especially if you use an http server rather than an ftp one. Indeed, I regard YaST extremely highly - it's a fantastic tool. Of course, if you prefer the style of one of the other distros' tools, that's perfectly understandable, but that's not a lack in YaST.
You are right YOU/YaST2/SAX2 are tied together in my mind I should have been clearer.
And as for its not finding hardware, SuSE (and hence YaST) is, as I understand it, pretty much the best distro for finding hardware so you'd be unlikely to do much better overall by switching.
I have never had any problem either. I was just wondering if Knoppix had the same problem on his hardware. They have done a great job on hardware detection also.
In a previous message, Paul Benjamin wrote:
On Saturday 26 April 2003 01:28 pm, John Pettigrew wrote:
Why? You can give it away all you like, you just can't copy the disks and *sell* them.
It looks to me you can't do anything on CD or DVD without SuSE approval for sell or give away in the USA.
http://www.suse.com/us/private/support/licenses/yast.html
Dissemination
It is forbidden to reproduce or distribute data carriers which have been reproduced without authorization for payment
These two words are the key here - "for payment". You can copy and distribute for free, but you can't charge for the copies. IANAL, of course! John -- John Pettigrew Headstrong Games john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the bank Valley of the Kings: ransack an ancient Egyptian tomb but beware of mummies!
On Sat, 2003-04-26 at 11:28, John Pettigrew wrote:
Why? You can give it away all you like, you just can't copy the disks and *sell* them.
Also, I've never noticed YaST being slow. YOU can be slow, but it's much better now, especially if you use an http server rather than an ftp one. Indeed, I regard YaST extremely highly - it's a fantastic tool. Of course, if you prefer the style of one of the other distros' tools, that's perfectly understandable, but that's not a lack in YaST.
Or better yet, use the ncurses version of yast. That's what I usually use. Every bit as functional and very fast. I don't see the problem, personally. Yast is awesome. I BUY SuSE because I think it's a good value. Why would someone buy something they didn't believe was worth paying for? Preston
On Sat April 26 2003 12:05 am, Paul Benjamin wrote:
I think I found someone who doesn't like SuSE. Poor Dennis E. Powell has the install from hell for SuSE 8.2.
http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=333
Why when it went so smoothly for me did he have so many problems? But then I gave up serial port mice eight years ago!
pben
On Sunday 20 April 2003 12:33 am, me@prestoncrawford.com wrote:
So, where are the SuSE 8.2 reviews? I mean, if we're going to have to wait months apparantly for it to be available retail (RedHat 9 was on the shelf at Fry's today, but no SuSE, even though SuSE only releases discs and supposedly "plans" for distribution in this manner) I'd be interested to hear if it's worth the upgrade.
Preston
My tale of woe (with 8.2) revolves around my tweaking the BIOS for speed and performance instead of the way it was set for the most generic and safe settings. When I reset my BIOS to the generic defaults and dumped the performance tweaks everything worked just fine. Slower but perfect. My main board doesn't play well when acpi and/or apm are enabled. USB devices, video, IDE devices, NIC and hot plugging are all effected by these being enabled in the BIOS and then used by the OS (Win98, ME, 2K, XP, RedHat, Mandrake, Knoppix, SuSE). I've learned to turn them off, put acpi=off and apm=off in the kernel boot command line in grub or lilo and get on with it. dep is using a serial mouse and YaST is hanging detecting a modem (on serial ports?) I would wager that he is choosing the wrong mouse port/setting or his system BIOS isn't set correctly. And I, from my own personal experience, know that is SuSE's fault since YaST didn't fix my errors for me. :o) ;) I like 8.2. I think it is very good. Too bad some people either don't know or don't remember all the details involved in getting a single PC to run properly. Stan
participants (13)
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arnaud kubacki
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Curtis Rey
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dep
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Derek Fountain
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jfweber@bellsouth.net
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John Pettigrew
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me@prestoncrawford.com
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Michael Hasenstein
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Paul Benjamin
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paul cooke
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Preston Crawford
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rex
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Stan Glasoe