Anders Johansson schrieb:

I don't think this is true though, RealPlayer will include the codecs in an upcoming version, and from what I hear it will be distributed free-of-charge just like before

Yeah, that's because Real gets a flat fee for 0$ because of the lawsuit in Europe, but all others have to pay and there is no flat fee as for e.g. MP3. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Anders Johansson a écrit :

On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

Hi all !

Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is solved now).

Feel free to open a feature request in bugzilla, but I don't think it's going to happen. The patent "pact" isn't a license to use

And I can just about guarantee that it won't happen for 10.2, it's far too late in the release cycle for new features of any kind

But only the PM/RM can speak authoritatively on this

it's not even necessary to include it in the distrib, only being allowed to explain all the possible links officially on the wiki would be noce, but I fear this will not be possible jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/mediawiki/index.php/GPS_Lowrance_GO --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Darryl Gregorash a écrit :

...

it's not even necessary to include it in the distrib, only being allowed to explain all the possible links officially on the wiki would be nice, but I fear this will not be possible You could always edit the wiki and see how long it lasts :-)

can't, it's me who is intended to fix it :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/mediawiki/index.php/GPS_Lowrance_GO --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Darryl Gregorash a écrit :

On 2006-11-12 14:47, jdd wrote:

...

Darryl Gregorash a écrit :

...

...

it's not even necessary to include it in the distrib, only being allowed to explain all the possible links officially on the wiki would be nice, but I fear this will not be possible You could always edit the wiki and see how long it lasts :-) can't, it's me who is intended to fix it :-) jdd

Oh, yes. I see now, you were only suggesting that someone else should change it :-)

I only need a green from Novell :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/mediawiki/index.php/GPS_Lowrance_GO --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Basil Chupin wrote:

Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett wrote:

...

On Sunday 12 November 2006 19:47, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

Hi all !

Since we have made a deal with MS about patents, I would like to ask include MS-patented Windows Media Codecs (WMA/WMV) with both openSUSE 10.2 and future SUSE versions... (including Enterprise). The code exists (on packman sites - the only problem was patents, which is solved now).

After all, we must use that pact to our advantage.

What do you think ?

Novell has no deal with Microsoft about patents. Novell can't ship patented stuff.

The only deal that was made is, if ever patented stuff is found, MS will not sue customer and viceversa, but the code will be removed anyway.

You know. 1% of the population can undertand what they read, that is why we get so much fud in the blogs, and now those fashion "Goodbye SUSE I am changing distro announcements".

This link was posted in another forum:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061107194320461

Read the article.

Cheers.

That article is PJ's interpretation of the SEC filing. You might want to read Novell's Q&A at http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/faq_opensource.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Mon, 13 Nov 2006, by houghi@houghi.org:

On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 11:55:17PM +1100, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

This link was posted in another forum:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061107194320461

As many people, Grocklaw is not pro-OSS or pro-Linux or pro-GPL. It is just Anti-Microsoft. Yes, there is a HUGE difference. The Anti-Miceosoft people do not care if they harm Linux in the process of bringing M$ down.

Remember that even Linus is not in it to break down Microsoft. That wil be just a nice side effect. Also it pains me to see that the most FUD comes from OSS and Linux side.

Also read the few following URLs: http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2168151/novells-opens-microsoft http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS2927608517.html http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS4287912423.html http://en.opensuse.org/Novell_Supported_Projects

You can try to be as positive as you like about this "deal" houghi, but in the end you know just as well as the rest that MS is not in it to make nice with OSS "community" or anyone supporting OSS for that matter, they're it it to find some way to make themselfs come out on top. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/11/microsoft_patent_kuhn_warning/ I for one am not going to spend more money on Novell either, until I am very convinced that this really *is* a good deal for OSS and "freedom as in speech". Theo -- Theo v. Werkhoven Registered Linux user# 99872 http://counter.li.org ICBM 52 13 26N , 4 29 47E. + ICQ: 277217131 SUSE 9.2 + Jabber: muadib@jabber.xs4all.nl Kernel 2.6.8 + See headers for PGP/GPG info. Claimer: any email I receive will become my property. Disclaimers do not apply. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Tue, 14 Nov 2006, by houghi@houghi.org:

On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 11:28:22PM +0100, Theo v. Werkhoven wrote:

...

You can try to be as positive as you like about this "deal" houghi, but in the end you know just as well as the rest that MS is not in it to make nice with OSS "community" or anyone supporting OSS for that matter, they're it it to find some way to make themselfs come out on top.

I am not positive, nor negative. I am realistic and say that we need to wait. In the end Novell wants to make money with the deal as well. SUSE used to be a company that was in it for the money as well. The fact that Microsft wants to make money as well is only very normal to me.

I'm not blaming MS anything, of course they do what they always do, no surprise there.

So what do you expect? That Microsoft suddenly decides to stop their business, had over all the code to GPL and give the money they have to the IFF?

No, I expect from Novell that they represent "us" as GNU/Linux and OSS users to the best of their abilities, because I was expecting that the SUSE board of directors would have asked that from Novell when SUSE AG was sold. Now MS "gave" Novell a whole lot of money, and nobody seems to know exactly what for. This make me *very* nervous about the /Novell/ motives.

I am absolutely uninterested in what Miscrosoft is doing, because there is nothing that has changed. So what if they have deal with Novell? I have heard no alternatives as to what should have been done. Not signing I asume would be how most people would have liked it and I am curious why. Probably because Microsoft is 'the enemy'.

The "deal" itself is empty as far as I can see from the link below, the OSS community as a whole doesn't gain anything from it, and neither do SUSE users. The only ones that gain are the Novell bank-acount and lawyers from MS.

...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/11/microsoft_patent_kuhn_warning/

All that is saying is that they *STILL* can sue over patents, so from that point of vieuw nothing has changed. It was not that suddenly they are able to do so. It is not that they could not try to slip some code into OSS before.

The bit that said nobody is really protected from patent suets anyway was clevery hit in the agreement don't you think? But they do have leveraged over other Linx distro's, now they've hooked one player. Divide and conquer, maybe you've heard of it.

...

I for one am not going to spend more money on Novell either, until I am very convinced that this really *is* a good deal for OSS and "freedom as in speech".

Either? I have not spend any money on them ever. The latest I spend money was SuSE 9.1 and I am angry with myself for buying so many versions. Now I just download the stuff

Well, I have have at least 6 boxes here, and every penny spent on SUSE has been well worth it; *sofar*.

I will not look wether this is a good deal for OSS, what I am interested is that it is not a bad one and nothing is pointing in that direction, exept FUD coming from the OSS and Linux front itself. And to me that points to Anti-Microsoft attitude, instead of Pro-Linux or Pro-OSS.

I remain sceptical, until proven otherwise. That has nothing to do with being anti-Microsoft, only with seeing that MS has no interest in making Linux better, so they're after something else. I just don't know what yet. Theo -- Theo v. Werkhoven Registered Linux user# 99872 http://counter.li.org ICBM 52 13 26N , 4 29 47E. + ICQ: 277217131 SUSE 9.2 + Jabber: muadib@jabber.xs4all.nl Kernel 2.6.8 + See headers for PGP/GPG info. Claimer: any email I receive will become my property. Disclaimers do not apply. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 07:01, houghi wrote:

On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 11:28:22PM +0100, Theo v. Werkhoven wrote: ...

...

I for one am not going to spend more money on Novell either, until I am very convinced that this really *is* a good deal for OSS and "freedom as in speech".

Either? I have not spend any money on them ever. The latest I spend money was SuSE 9.1 and I am angry with myself for buying so many versions. Now I just download the stuff.

Now that says a lot about you. I put my money where my mouth is, and did buy the boxes (until now). Even if I had downloaded the software before. For me that is a question of respect. Respect of the immense work these nice folks at SuSE had done, and the time and money their good job has saved me. again and again. It's up to you to just take and never give back, but it says a lot about your attitude.

I will not look wether this is a good deal for OSS, what I am interested is that it is not a bad one and nothing is pointing in that direction,

Well, many disagree with that statement, me included.

exept FUD coming from the OSS and Linux front itself.

Just because it is not what _you_ think, it can still be a quite realistic view of the world. IMHO this deal is bad for OSS and Linux, and there are many valid (and some invalid) reasons posted here (and elsewhere) explaining that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/13/06, Theo v. Werkhoven wrote:

You can try to be as positive as you like about this "deal" houghi, but in the end you know just as well as the rest that MS is not in it to make nice with OSS "community" or anyone supporting OSS for that matter, they're it it to find some way to make themselfs come out on top. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/11/microsoft_patent_kuhn_warning/

what you are seeing here is blind SUSE and Novell support. Blindly supproting SUSE I can kind of understand. But blindly supporting Novell corp I can't. I will assume that these people were not around or did not bother to dig up all the dirt on Novell when they were the major force in the IT industury and used to bitch slap and swallow any small companies that stood in their way. what these people fail to understand is that the open source community is much larger than MS or Novell. It they decide to shun SUSE because of them, you will wind up with a dud distro. (i.e. once there are no more good and devoted brains working on SUSE, the distro is up a creek without a paddle) I for one am not going to spend more money on Novell either, until I

am very convinced that this really *is* a good deal for OSS and "freedom as in speech".

welcome to the club. -- jjgitties, "*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

On 11/14/06, Anders Johansson wrote:

I am blindly waiting for you to go over to the Red Hat mailing lists and start screaming about their contracts with IBM, who did far worse than anyone, including Microsoft, in their day

Why would I do that. I don't use Red Hat. I really couldn't care less what Red Hat does. I also fail to see why you have taken it upon yourself to be a one-man

mission to shout down anyone who says "wait and see".

I am not trying to shut down anyone. I am also in the "wait and see" camp. I am however bitching about the decision. I guess somewhere in the back of my mind, I fantasize that most of there guys --> http://en.opensuse.org/Teams will turn around and say to MS & Novell, "thanks and screw you. We are forking and you guys can have a jolly good old time getting the cheap developers in Mumbai to turn SUSE into that quality enterprise class product you are hoping to see with coupons. -- jjgitties, "*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

On 11/14/06, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 19:35, JJ Gitties wrote:

...

I am not trying to shut down anyone. I am also in the "wait and see" camp.

With your comments about lying to people you talk to, and general trollishness, you could have fooled me

Lets clarify something. - On this list, I am with the "wait and see" crowd. But I bitch about the MS/Novell pact. However, no one can see into the future -- so speculating what this will do to patents/GPL and Linux is pointless. But I am against the deal. Regardless of wheather its actually done anything tangible yet. - In my personal/professional life, no I am not going to "want and see" until I see that MS/Novell have done something bad before I start to not plug SUSE anymore. I stop plugging it now. Did it ever occur to you that Novell has won against Microsoft in the past?

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, they will again? That the millions spent on open source development (yes in the west, but I detest your racist remark about Indian developers) were not just window dressing?

Novell are not going to be winning anything. They are not the force in the industry that they used to be back when they were actually fighting with Microsoft. And Microsoft corp is much bigger today than they were back then. Everyone correctly sees this deal with MS as Novell's last attempt to keep afloat. I also worked on Novell's products. And I was a SUSE user before Novell bought them. Novell have always been a company that had the better products but the shittier management. It seemed to get worse after Noorda left. Lets focus on the facts. Novell bought an established distro and a very very good distro that they added into their portfolio. It's been 3 years. What have they done with it? Is it a more powerful force in the Linux business than it was 3 years ago? Probably not. If anything, I might even seem that it went down a notch. Now that you have some other newer major players in the Linux/Open source world. In particular Ubuntu and OpenSolaris have risen up in OSS since the Novell/SUSE purchase. You have to really look close and hard at what this supposedly "experienced" corporation like Novell actually managed to achieve in 3 years with SUSE. Did they achieve market penetration? Did they get the ex-NetWare shops to migrate to SLES instead of the planned Windows 2000/2003 server? Remember, the Windows 2003 product is better than it's previous NT cousins, but it's not what I would call a more stable, better or cheaper server product by any means. And also remember, Novell didn't buy a no name brand distro. They bought one of the greatest and most well known distros at the time. It's not like they had to convince people what SUSE was. However, they did managed to come up with the great idea at first of , they should drop the SUSE name and hence unleash mass confusion. "Is Novell Linux Desktop the same that SUSE? I guess it would be SUSE pro if it was, wouldn't it? I don't get it? Which one do I buy again? Let me look at that brochure one more time..." You see stuff like that and you start to think, Novell might actually be populated by incompetent people. -- jjgitties, "*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 11:57, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

Version 6.3 was my first, and no other distro has ever graced my system.

Hmmm, then it would seem your credentials are less than stellar as well. Why don't you get out a little more? To hear you talk there is only one true path. There are a LOT of good distros out there. Many easier to run the Suse, some more require more work, some with better updaters some with hardly any. I was looking for a good distro when I found Suse, and good as Suse is, its not the ONLY one out there, and its not the only one I use. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 16:00, JJ Gitties wrote:

"*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend." Sad, but true.

Isn't it interesting... that nobody ever talks about M$ forking.... ahahahhahahhahahahahahah :-))) -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 2006-11-14 15:09, John Andersen wrote:

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 11:57, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

Version 6.3 was my first, and no other distro has ever graced my system.

Hmmm, then it would seem your credentials are less than stellar as well.

Put that remark back into the context off JJ's ongoing saga, John, and then you can comment. Furthermore, I never came close to implying or suggesting that I have never worked on any other disribution. I have, and all that I have seen suck, or require far more maintenance than I am prepared to do, with little in return, for someone else -- I am also not prepared to put that much maintenance into my own system. So please, name one that is equivalent to SuSE, and does things better. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 21:16, JJ Gitties wrote:

I would be interested in knowing exactly what feature of SUSE do you find that there is no equivalent or similar or even better corresponding feature that may be found in other major distro's or products? Yast

-- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 22:18, Tony Alfrey wrote:

I'm sorry, but I've had more hassles with YAST than it's worth.  Before there was YAST, there was rpm from a command line that seemed to work with much greater ease and reliability.  Just my $.02. You've got to be kidding....

You clearly do not know what you are talking about. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

James Knott wrote:

Tony Alfrey wrote:

...

M Harris wrote:

...

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 21:16, JJ Gitties wrote:

...

I would be interested in knowing exactly what feature of SUSE do you find that there is no equivalent or similar or even better corresponding feature that may be found in other major distro's or products? Yast

I'm sorry, but I've had more hassles with YAST than it's worth. Before there was YAST, there was rpm from a command line that seemed to work with much greater ease and reliability. Just my $.02.

The RPM command is still there.

Indeed. -- Tony Alfrey tonyalfrey@earthlink.net "I'd Rather Be Sailing" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday 18 November 2006 12:56, Carl William Spitzer IV wrote:

...

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 21:16, JJ Gitties wrote:

...

I would be interested in knowing exactly what feature of SUSE do you find that there is no equivalent or similar or even better corresponding feature that may be found in other major distro's or products?

     Yast

Agreed.  I do not believe the other installers can touch it.

IMHO, Its not the installation part of yast that is so good, its all the other tasks it does, organized into one place. Ubuntu has a good installer. Heck, even Red Hat has a good installer. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 16:23, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

So please, name one that is equivalent to SuSE, and does things better.

I don't think one can point to any distro and say it does EVERYTHING better than any other. There are several based on Debian/Ubuntu that at this particular point in time are much easier to install,upgrade, and keep up to date. I think your grandmother could install Kubuntu. There are some things that suse has been the leader in for a long time, and Yast has been one of them. But even Yast leaves you guessing what it is doing and where the changes are being made. -- _____________________________________ John Andersen

Darryl Gregorash wrote:

On 2006-11-14 23:10, John Andersen wrote:

...

On Tuesday 14 November 2006 16:23, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

...

So please, name one that is equivalent to SuSE, and does things better.

I don't think one can point to any distro and say it does EVERYTHING better than any other.

I just did a Mandriva install tonight, for a friend, and I can definitely point to one which, IMEHO, does *nothing* anywhere as good as SuSE. Ubuntu hasn't appeared on his radar yet -- if he ever does install it, I am sure he'll call me to do it for him.

...

I think your grandmother could install Kubuntu.

That would be difficult, unless you know of any ISPs in the afterlife :-)

Could always try the ether-net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 11/14/06, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

Just where have you been?

Munich, 2003: http://news.com.com/2100-1016-1010740.html Bergen, 2004:

http://www.networktimes.co.za/news.asp?pklNewsID=15337&pklIssueID=433&pklCategoryID=309 Dundee, 2004: http://www.novell.com/success/dundee.pdf Cornwall Health Service, 2004: http://www.novell.com/offices/emea/uk/news/press/tonic_cornwall.html UK National Health Service, 2005: http://www.novell.com/offices/emea/uk/news/press/nhs_novell.html

You are such a door knob. Lets establish something. Germany is SUSE country. North America is Microsoft country. I would say that North America is Novell country as well if they have NetWare -- but thats gone. I don't know where you are based, but where I am based, which is a major metropolitan area in NA, I have not met a single living soul where they run SUSE enterprise server. The only people I know who run it are the companies I read about in Novell Connection magazine. And me. I ran the beta in my home network for a while. I just know of people that run MS, Solaris, Red Hat and a bit of NetWare. What that tells you is that in general, Novell have not really make much market penetration. You would think that at least some on the ex-NetWare shops would have said yay to SLES. --

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- jjgitties, "*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

On 11/14/06, J Sloan wrote:

Thank you for your opinion.

it's not an opinion.it a fact based on my own personal observation. i really have not met anyone who deplyed SLES. up here Novell have these free seminars that IT guys go to because, well its free, the food is better than other lamo vendors seminars and the give out freebies. anyways, if you go to these things long enough, you start to see the same guys like you going to them for the food and the feebies. and you get to chat a bit. naturally, all these guys work/worked in NetWare shops. None of these guys' companies bought Novells Linux product yet. Opinions, however, are no substitute for

actual facts. Let's face it, by your own admission, you're a windoze specialist, who occasionally tinkers with linux.

Not a windows specialist. Just an IT guy who consults on the side and I don't turn down jobs. I have been a full-time unix admin for over 12 years. I work for a

fortune 100 company, and I've done consulting with small and medium businesses on the side for over 10 years.

I introduced linux to this company back in the 1990s, as I set up slackware, then redhat boxes, as secondary mail/dns, and also introduced the big brother monitoring system on linux. Eventually linux took over as primary and secondary smtp and dns servers, as well as taking on ftp and time services. For years we used redhat, but migrated everything over to Novell/SuSE in 2004, while also migrating more infrastructure from hpux and solaris over to Novell SLES. The change has been good, with increased uptime and availability of services.

dinky hosts that provide NTP, FTP and nagios I don't personally consider major Linux deployments... but to each their own. Every one of the businesses that I consult for has uses suse servers -

among them a major auto manufacturer, a shipping firm, banks and finance companies and web consultants, and I'm happy to report that I'm simply not seeing anything like the gloomy picture you paint.

One finance company started out with just a linux smtp gateway for their windoze shop, but have since added linux dns servers, web proxy, firewall, vpn server, and have migrated their websites from microsoft/iis to linux/apache/j2ee. They were originally on red hat but have moved to suse.

Fine. I will take your word for it and assume you are not BS'ing. I guess were you live Novell do a better job selling. You aren't based out of Provo, Utah are you? ;-) -- jjgitties, "*We* need to convince OpenSUSE to fork, or let 'em die. To bad, it is a wonderful Distro. But their parent company is NOT our friend."

JJ Gitties wrote:

On 11/14/06, *J Sloan* mailto:joe@tmsusa.com> wrote:

I introduced linux to this company back in the 1990s, as I set up slackware, then redhat boxes, as secondary mail/dns, and also introduced the big brother monitoring system on linux. Eventually linux took over as primary and secondary smtp and dns servers, as well as taking on ftp and time services. For years we used redhat, but migrated everything over to Novell/SuSE in 2004, while also migrating more infrastructure from hpux and solaris over to Novell SLES. The change has been good, with increased uptime and availability of services.

dinky hosts that provide NTP, FTP and nagios I don't personally consider major Linux deployments... but to each their own.

Not sure what you mean by dinky hosts, nor why you're deprecating ntp and ftp, especially since you have no idea of the environment you're dismissing. Keeping 1000 servers within a second of each other is an important job here, as is the corporate ftp service. BTW we're not using nagios. Our mail system serves 13,000 internal users, handles about 10 million messages/month, and has a very effective spam quarantine management system. If that's dinky, I'd love to hear about your deployments. Our dns serves 750+ domains (times 6 views) and I clocked one of boxes doing 28,000 queries per second, with very low load average. If that's dinky, please tell me all about your awesome deployments. I'm also eager to hear your criticism of why nis/nfs and rsync services are dinky and unimportant, so please dive in!

Fine. I will take your word for it and assume you are not BS'ing. I guess were you live Novell do a better job selling. You aren't based out of Provo, Utah are you? ;-)

Nope, good old California - we preferred suse and were moving that direction even before Novell bought them, but it did help that Novell is a well established company. Joe --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 15 November 2006 10:10, JJ Gitties wrote:

On 11/14/06, J Sloan wrote: ...

...

among them a major auto manufacturer, a shipping firm, banks and finance companies and web consultants, and I'm happy to report that I'm simply not seeing anything like the gloomy picture you paint.

One finance company started out with just a linux smtp gateway for their windoze shop, but have since added linux dns servers, web proxy, firewall, vpn server, and have migrated their websites from microsoft/iis to linux/apache/j2ee. They were originally on red hat but have moved to suse.

Fine. I will take your word for it and assume you are not BS'ing. I guess were you live Novell do a better job selling. You aren't based out of Provo, Utah are you? ;-)

There is no need for Novell to sell to have others use its software. We decided for SuSE long ago because we searched for the best solution. And decided that SuSE offers it. Without ever speaking to anyone at SuSE before. Of course it doesn't hurt to sell, but we prefer to buy, than to get sold something. This Novell-MS deal so far we do not buy, despite the efforts to sell it to us. SuSE Linux did convince us, however this deal does not. (...this MS deal is influencing our decisions for any future installation. We started test installations of other distros because of it.... ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

2006/11/14, JJ Gitties :

On 11/14/06, Anders Johansson wrote:

...

I am blindly waiting for you to go over to the Red Hat mailing lists and start screaming about their contracts with IBM, who did far worse than anyone, including Microsoft, in their day

Why would I do that. I don't use Red Hat. I really couldn't care less what Red Hat does.

I also fail to see why you have taken it upon yourself to be a one-man

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mission to shout down anyone who says "wait and see".

I am not trying to shut down anyone. I am also in the "wait and see" camp. I am however bitching about the decision. I guess somewhere in the back of my mind, I fantasize that most of there guys --> http://en.opensuse.org/Teams

In what team are you exactly ? will turn around and say to MS & Novell, "thanks and screw you. We are

forking and you guys can have a jolly good old time getting the cheap developers in Mumbai to turn SUSE into that quality enterprise class product you are hoping to see with coupons.

I'm really really tired of this kind of FUD, with "i feel" "MS is the Devil", etc etc. Could you please create a mail list for this ? Every little single question had been awnser, but people like you continued with FUD, is just too much, know you are not even discussion fact but feeling, common, please make a mail list for this people, please. -- Marcel Mourguiart