LINUX_ADVOCACY="yes" This is being posted to give some of you newbies a bit of perspective about just how much more simple and better installing Linux is compared to what some people refer to as "the Lexus" of Unixes, Sun's Solaris. Even though you experience some difficulties in Linux land, it is nothing compared to Solaris. There's nothing like going back thru a Solaris 2.5.1 x86 install to help you appreciate and realize several of Linux's greatest strengths. Because of some work I'll be doing for a client, I have to set up a drive in my workstation at home with Solaris. A good friend of mine was kind enough a while back to trade me an old SCSI adapter I had for an extra copy he had of Solaris 2.5.1. Just to boot up the system, I had to download and create 8 new "Driver Update" diskettes. (Driver Update 10) So I boot up the system, and they begin their own style of autoprobing hardware. After the hardware probing is done, you are sitting at a character mode install system designed to ask you the basics about your display, video adapter card and mouse. This is the Solaris "kdmconfig" program. (Keyboard Display Mouse Config) . You have the option of bypassing the graphical config, and do your initial install in character mode, so that you can install OpenWindows later with kdmconfig,or continue right into graphical config. that would be nice except you have to know several magin words and invoke some ancient chants to get kdmconfigto work right. What a pitiful piece of software it is. If you want to install the graphical environment, OpenWindows, then a few screens are offered to allow you to pick from lists the closest you can to that which is in your system. then they attempt to load up OpenWindows. This is akin to XF86Setup "attempting to start X server" - except that if it fails, you have to start over from a reboot. Maybe Sun's people are hanging out in Redmond now ... I selected the ATI Mach 64, a no-brainer for XFree86 under Linux. I have wasted considerable effortjust trying to get the video modes and monitor set, which, like I said before is not real hard under XF68Setup, and makes even xf86config look like a walk in the park. The sad part of it all is that I did indeed download the latest driver kit from Sun, and although it "looks" like they've supplied the right drivers, their installer can't get it right. There is no Ctrl-Alt- - or Ctrl-Alt-+ mode switching to test different modes, and even Windows NT does better autoprobing during the install process. Several times I have picked the wrong modes, and wound up with garbage on the screen, and the system frozen, with no ability to breakout of the process, only to have to hit the reset button and go thru the first 3 SLOW diskettes to get the installer to see and start the CD based installer. The only solution was to take out the Mach 64 (bummer!) ad re-install an older Cirrus Logic video card. And even worse, although Solaris showed EXACTLY the card I have, it still isn't quite right! I'm getting weird screen refresh problems! It's amazing! I've never had these problems with Linux! Linux and the contrib software from seasoned developers and industry professionals makes Linux so much more compatible in Intel than any other x86 Unix. I have a rather generic system, Intel motherbaord, real Pentium P133 - this is not bleeding edge, Adaptec 2940 PCI adapter, 64mb of memory, 2S1P on motherboard, Triton 430HX chip set, sheesh this thing is text book. I have an industrial strength 19" rack mount case with an awesome power supply. I'm not doing anything real unusual with hardware! In this same system I have run several different versions and distributions of Linux without any of the video or hardware problems I have had with Solaris. And we haven't even gotten to the part about that which NOT included with Solaris! :) Can you believe they don't have a "traceroute" program included? Can you believe that they start up the "routed" program (routing) by default? And how about the fact that they don't include any of the tonnage of apps that you find under Linux. "Well that's because since they're commercial, they can't include freeware" Bullshit. A supplementary CD would be a no-brainer to include. The same friend I got Solaris 2.5.1 from went through ppp hell also, as it seems that Sun never really "finished" the job with their implementation of ppp. He wound up building a Linux gateway machine just for ppp! And I don't believe you get IP Masquerading or Kernel based firewalling in the Solaris kernel like you do with Linux. Perhaps they include it in their $20000 firewall. So next time someone starts laying the "Sun Religion" on you, or the fact that you're better off with a "commerical" Unix vs Linux, understand that these people are masochists. In my experience as a computer professionaI, I have encountered "Sun-only" "Solaris Pharisees" who bow down at the great pyramid of Sun and hail it as the total solution, even though it is so incomplete and requires so much "fixing" and "grooming" to make it usable. The fact that the top three enterprise databases only run on commercial Unix is probably one of the few things that keeps commercial Unix alive. Sybase is getting ready to port to Linux, and will probably be first to market, although the boneheads at Informix have been pummled for 18 months by a very dedicated developer core who want informix to go Linux, but top management at Informix just can't "get it". Things not included with Solaris - these you'll have to go get for Sun include: * A decent shell - Sun's shells suck compared to bash - this really pisses me off. Sun bigots who think that ksh and csh or even tcsh are good shells.. Add time to download and install Bash for Solaris ... * A working ppp configuration and software: prepare to give an inordinate amount of time to getting it to work if at all! * C compiler, unless you don't mind paying $1500 for a single user C compiler license. That means you'll have to spend time downloading an installing the GNU compiler. * A decent desktop window manager that doesn't suck like OpenWindows - looks like more download and compile time again ... CDE is not really an answer, so don't try to impress me with CDE, it's not complete. There are better alternatives. * Oh - and since I have 2.5.1, that means I'm faced with a 25mb Recommended Patch cluster download to get it current. I know, I could subscribe to their developer program at $95/year, but since I can't afford to buy any apps for this os, I really don't want to sink money into a very limited program that only covers the os, not simple support for apps. The good folks at SuSE, Caldera RedHat, Slackware - they are more than able, capable and willing to provide new RPMS for just about any app that the user community wants included in their distributions. I can afford to subscribe to two Linux distributions now, and every quarter I have an up-to-date system and software. The only thing I think Sun has as an advantage *right now* is that they have larger hardware and can handle more CPUs with SMP. That will all change now as the new Beowulf (clustered processing) wave starts, along with better SMP in Linux. While I'm sure many are thankful for Sun's contributions to the Unix community, such as Java and Tcl/Tk, I can't say much for their x86 product. Perhaps 2.6 is better, but I really don't want to spend $495 for it. (Why, just because it has Sun's logo - hell I have Sun mouse pads and wrist rest, they have cool art work - that it) Given time, as more and more technology professionals begin realizing the power and economy that Linux provides, they will see that Solaris Religion just doesn't make sense. PCs are dommodity items now, and thanks to Linux, we have a commodity priced OS that makes commerial Unix look bad. Hang your head in shame Sun. Sun shows you what would have happed to Linux had it grown up and been fostered in a commercial environment. Oh - an if my pricing is too high - I can hear some of you saying "you can get it practically for free under such and such a program from Sun" - have you been to their web site lately - they have so many useless links connected to nothing but marketing fluff. Just wading through the links to find drivers and patches is sheer tedium. So for all you newbies out there - enjoy Linux and the fact that current distributions are so much more simple to install and maintain than Solaris. Ask somebody who runs a large IS shop with a lot of Sun machines - ask them how support is from Sun - chanes are they'll tell you they don't use Sun - they use a VAR or somone else, because Sun has a shjitty reputation where support is concerned. The only shops getting attention are the big spenders. Support for Linux is at light-speed compared to Sun, not to mention other Unix vendors. Watch out Sun - "The Penguin Cometh" ... -tks- -- To get out of this list, please send email to majordomo@suse.com with this text in its body: unsubscribe suse-linux-e