[opensuse] First impressions and questions from 11.0
Hi! I've skipped 10.3 as I do not like to be updating the server all the time. So now I've heard good things about 11.0 so I decided to take a look. Unfortunately I have problems. So far, I've tested this only in virtual machines. BTW, I've been away from here some time. I remember that people are quite sensitive here and start fights over everything. I do not try to provoke fight here even though I realize that my first impressions are not good. But giving this kind of feedback is about all I can offer for openSUSE development. So take it as it is, feedback and not attack. And remember, that I'm a openSUSE fan, been from SuSE 9.0. Ok, let's start from getting it. Web-site is good and it was fairly easy to get the network installation going. Finally I didn't need to look up the servers IP addresses! Progress! :-) Next thing I noted: GUI's moving forward, I select the new KDE version wondering why they would left the old 3.5 there - yes I did note that it says it's not quite as mature (*). Installation is easy and fast. Nice. Opening KDE 4.0 for the first time. Looks good. In the top right corner there is something strange. Dashboard. If I move mouse there, only a menu appears. I still have to select "show" to see the dashboard. I add some widgets, although I cannot seem to find anything interesting or useful (not even weather widgets?). Then I click "hide" and the widgets are still visible. I'm getting confused. I open file browser and when I click on "show dashboard" the windows disappear. Ok. Seems that the dashboard is a cross between OS X and Vista I think. But I can not understand it. Currently not user friendly, so I decide not to use it as it's confusing and without relevant or useful widgets. How can I remove the strange menu from the right top corner? Moving on, I notice that the file browser has changed. Looks like Gnome, but I'm sure I checked KDE 4.0 in the installation. I try to find a useful tree-like presentation but I can't. Only folders and some strange columns view. I do not understand the meaning of that. There is no useful metaphor that the column view is trying mimic. At least I cannot understand what it would be. Can somebody explain? The thing with tree-view is that although it doesn't try to mimic any metaphor, it is actually very well visualizing where everything is. Having shortcuts, like home folder or documents, is excellent in getting around the tree fast. But the column view is confusing. Then I decide to see if the great konqueror has been killed off. I fire up the web icon expecting to get konqueror. I did. It's trying to get to www.opensuse.org. It's forever "waiting for reply..." In the mean time, I open firefox, which goes directly to the same address without any problems. Konqueror is still waiting. I try www.google.com on konqueror - I get that immediately. I go back to www.opensuse.org. Konqueror says that the "Page (is) loaded." but I'm still seeing Google. So, Konqueror web is broken. But I can still use it as file browser, right. (Later on, it seemed to browse internet also.) Yes, I can. Except that all the great tree-view modes have been deleted from konqueror also. And further more, if I select the details view, I need to do that to each new folder I open. How frustrating! Where is the usability? :-( :-( It is not even trying to mimic OS X in that you could move and order the icons any ways you want. Not that I like that either... my (real) desktop is a mess, but I still (or therefore?) like my computer to organize things for me! So, I go back to Dolphin as it seems that Konqueror has been killed of. No use for that anymore. In Dolphin, I find out that I can at least change the location so that it is editable. I click on "Network" and then try to see the windows (actually samba) servers. Nothing. Well, I get "Could not connect to host for smb://smb-network/". The URL seems to be "remote:/smb-network". I'm obviously now concerned that I'm running this in a Sun xVM VirtualBox over Windows. So I quickly install Ubuntu as I do not have older openSUSE available. I install that exactly the same way onto the same VirtualBox and I can easily see all the Samba shares right out of the box - like it used to be with openSUSE! :-( So I go to update the installation. There is a great new surprise in YaST. Finally it is easy to add the community repositories there with just a few clicks. Provided that you know where to look. However, after the official updates (few) I go to community and install some 3rd party stuff with great 1-click script. That also added the needed repos. Good going. And now it seems that I can actually use YaST and I do not need to go the smart route. However, after the updates, the konqueror is still crippled, samba KDE client didn't work and the everything seems the same. So, anybody know hot to get the samba shares to show up in KDE? BTW, I didn't mention yet that the only thing I like about the new start menu is that there is the search field. I know this has been discussed earlier on, but no changes have been made to it. Actually, the old menu has been a little crippled with removing some features. But do you guys really like opening and closing the programs menu pages by clicking with mouse? I mean really? Didn't SUSE conduct some usability test at some point? I find it still extremely hard to find programs from the Applications menu specially with with laptop. When you are exploring what is in there, you need to be doing tens of unnecessary clicks to small targets. to go back and forth. Really frustrating. Anybody know how to get the search field also to the classic menu? Or the most used items? BTW, my brother tried 11.0 with KDE 4.0 on a dual screen workstation. Has anybody tried it? :-) Excellent stuff. The login screen appears on the second screen. After that again stuff happens on the first until you get to desktop. When you click on the star menu, it pops open on the second screen and not above the icon. Quite visible bugs. (*) So, now I know why they kept the KDE 3.5 there. Except that I'm sure that it will not be supported much as now the main seems to be Gnome and KDE 4. So, am I happy? No. Will I update my server? I do not think so. This seems like another .0 release to me. I will try reinstalling with the old KDE to a virtual machine also. Maybe that gives me confidence. But then again, if that does not give me anything more feature wise, then why would I upgrade? Well, yes, it seems faster in the virtual machine. And better supported. So, I think I will try it out with KDE 3.5. -- HG. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Installation is easy and fast. Nice.
The new install is really nice.
Opening KDE 4.0 for the first time. Looks good.
You really should update to 4.0.99 from the factory repository., and keep on top of the updates. the 4.0.4 from the DVD is quite old now, and there have been a lot of improvements (and a few things not quite right yet). Remember... KDE4 is still very much in an early Beta stage (some say Alpha), and there are bit that are not quite right yet. That said, I am using it full time now with no problems.
interesting or useful (not even weather widgets?). Then I click "hide" and the widgets are still visible. I'm getting confused.
Hide? Or Lock Widgets? Lock Widgets locks them down so they stop moving about when you click on them etc.
How can I remove the strange menu from the right top corner?
At this point.. you can't. It changes in functionality a little as you update to newer versions of KDE4... but it basically stays as it's the "interface" to your widgets for now.... and your desktop is 100% widgets now.
Moving on, I notice that the file browser has changed. Looks like Gnome, but I'm sure I checked KDE 4.0 in the installation.
That's Dolphin. It is very configurable in it's views. You still have Konqueror available as well. You can use either. You can turn on tree view in Dolphin.. just click the Details button in the button bar at the top. Places on the left is your bookmarks. You can turn off or on any of the panels, and they are dockable.. and undockable. Play aroudn with it a little, and you will find all sorts of interesting options.... and like I said.. if it doesn't work for you, the old standby Konq. is still there.
So, I go back to Dolphin as it seems that Konqueror has been killed of.
Hmmm.. update to the latest KDE4... 4.0.99, and you will find many of the missing bits starting to reappear.
repos. Good going. And now it seems that I can actually use YaST and I do not need to go the smart route.
This is one of the best thigns about 11.0. Package management works, and it works VERY well.
However, after the updates, the konqueror is still crippled, samba KDE client didn't work and the everything seems the same.
Did you update to 4.0.99?
But do you guys really like opening and closing the programs menu pages by clicking with mouse? I mean really?
I thought the same, but I have started using it just in the past few days, and after a little setup, it is actually pretty good. You set up your favorites right, and between that and the Recently opened, and I find I rarley need to drill down into the sub sub menus.
BTW, my brother tried 11.0 with KDE 4.0 on a dual screen workstation.
Dual monitor does not work right at all in KDE4. This is a known thing... I talked to the KDE developers about this, and they didn't have a good answer... long story full of technical things, but no acceptable answer...
So, am I happy? No. Will I update my server? I do not think so.
So.. use KDE3.5.9. It's fully supported.
then again, if that does not give me anything more feature wise, then why would I upgrade? Well, yes, it seems faster in the virtual machine.
You get a newer kernel... you get a working Package Manager... you can pick any Window Manager you want :-) Even e17... C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 20 July 2008 15:12:15 Clayton wrote:
Dual monitor does not work right at all in KDE4. This is a known thing... I talked to the KDE developers about this, and they didn't have a good answer... long story full of technical things, but no acceptable answer...
This is a bit of a showstopper for me on my main box running dualhead. What you say reflects my trials of KDE4 so far. FWIW I'm running an 8800 gt card and I can't live without dualhead. Given your status report can you suggest any way we might encourage somebody to move the issue along ? Mike -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Clayton wrote:
You really should update to 4.0.99 from the factory repository., and keep on top of the updates. the 4.0.4 from the DVD is quite old now, would this be the repository of which you speak? http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU...
right yet). Remember... KDE4 is still very much in an early Beta stage (some say Alpha), and there are bit that are not quite right Oh no, it's just "less mature" :-)
yet. That said, I am using it full time now with no problems. Since I am just doing it for the learning experience, KDE4 bugs aren't a show stopper for me
That's Dolphin. It is very configurable in it's views. You still have Konqueror available as well. You can use either. You can turn but am I correct in thinking that Konq ( at least the one that comes with the install) is built for kde3?
on tree view in Dolphin.. just click the Details button in the button that was one of the first things I looked for.
So, I go back to Dolphin as it seems that Konqueror has been killed of.
Hmmm.. update to the latest KDE4... 4.0.99, and you will find many of the missing bits starting to reappear. meaning that eventually there will be a KDE4 Konqueror? Speaking of missing bits, would that include such things as KDE control center or kinfocenter?
This is one of the best thigns about 11.0. Package management works, and it works VERY well. I noticed it seems to work a lot better than the one from 10
So.. use KDE3.5.9. It's fully supported. What about Gnome? :-)
There is one thing that still confuses me a little. I have seen several posts mention updating to 4.0.99 but at http://www.kde.org I can only find 4.0.98. Is there really a 4.0.99? Damon Register -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Clayton wrote:
You really should update to 4.0.99 from the factory repository., and keep on top of the updates. the 4.0.4 from the DVD is quite old now, I went to http://en.opensuse.org/KDE/Repositories and added
http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Desktop/openSU... http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/KDE4:/Factory:/Extra-Apps/ope... I see that 4.0.99 is now available but I am not able to update. when I attempt to update, I get a dependency error saying it can't find libstrigi0 that is recent enough. I found that on the build service but after installing that there seems to be other dependencies. Is there some reasonably simple method for updating to 4.0.99? Perhaps by adding another repository that satisfies the dependencies? Damon Register -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
HG wrote:
(*) So, now I know why they kept the KDE 3.5 there. Except that I'm sure that it will not be supported much as now the main seems to be Gnome and KDE 4.
So, am I happy? No. Will I update my server? I do not think so. This seems like another .0 release to me. I will try reinstalling with the old KDE to a virtual machine also. Maybe that gives me confidence. But then again, if that does not give me anything more feature wise, then why would I upgrade? Well, yes, it seems faster in the virtual machine. And better supported. So, I think I will try it out with KDE 3.5.
Just one comment - personally, I don't quite understand why you are so concerned about KDE when you're installing a server. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
Per Jessen a écrit :
Just one comment - personally, I don't quite understand why you are so concerned about KDE when you're installing a server.
true fvwm2 is nice for this use (or windowmaker) anyway, try the software management of openSUSE 11, you wont ever change for an older version :-)) (and kde 3 is excellent) jdd -- Jean-Daniel Dodin Président du CULTe www.culte.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On July Sunday 20 2008, Per Jessen scratched these words onto a coconut shell, hoping for an answer:
HG wrote:
(*) So, now I know why they kept the KDE 3.5 there. Except that I'm sure that it will not be supported much as now the main seems to be Gnome and KDE 4.
So, am I happy? No. Will I update my server? I do not think so. This seems like another .0 release to me. I will try reinstalling with the old KDE to a virtual machine also. Maybe that gives me confidence. But then again, if that does not give me anything more feature wise, then why would I upgrade? Well, yes, it seems faster in the virtual machine. And better supported. So, I think I will try it out with KDE 3.5.
Just one comment - personally, I don't quite understand why you are so concerned about KDE when you're installing a server.
Thank you Per, I was beginning to think I'd lost a bigger piece of my mind than seems the case from your statement. -- j "Science is what we do when we don't know what we're doing" Dr. Alvaro de Rujula -- j "Science is what we do when we don't know what we're doing" Dr. Alvaro de Rujula -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 20 July 2008 15:36:58 HG wrote:
However, after the updates, the konqueror is still crippled, samba KDE client didn't work and the everything seems the same. So, anybody know hot to get the samba shares to show up in KDE?
I have the same problem -- you need to know the IP address of the computer with shares you want to access and connect directly to this machine. Or turn the firewall off. -- skx, http://skxpl.eu.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Sunday 2008-07-20 at 16:36 +0300, HG wrote:
Hi!
I've skipped 10.3 as I do not like to be updating the server all the time. So now I've heard good things about 11.0 so I decided to take a look. Unfortunately I have problems. So far, I've tested this only in virtual machines.
BTW, I've been away from here some time. I remember that people are quite sensitive here and start fights over everything. I do not try to provoke fight here even though I realize that my first impressions are not good. But giving this kind of feedback is about all I can offer for openSUSE development. So take it as it is, feedback and not attack. And remember, that I'm a openSUSE fan, been from SuSE 9.0.
...
Next thing I noted: GUI's moving forward, I select the new KDE version wondering why they would left the old 3.5 there - yes I did note that it says it's not quite as mature (*).
Installation is easy and fast. Nice.
Opening KDE 4.0 for the first time. Looks good. In the top right
1) You are installing a server, so... why do you care for kde whistles so much? 2) If you had remained in touch with this list, or browsed the archive, you would not be commenting on kde4. Everything has already been said a hundred times over. Your comments are almost redundant :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIg7ontTMYHG2NR9URAoQjAJ0dpztjRkMy7SH772Ww3U/G2KSzhACfUf/x 5eQIC+YKHrWC7XPq0d4OYgw= =tbwX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
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Carlos E. R.
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Clayton
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Damon Register
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HG
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jdd sur free
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jfweber@gilweber.com
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michael norman
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Per Jessen
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skx