-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Tuesday, 2009-03-31 at 22:56 +1100, Graham Smith wrote:

...

Hi,

...

Is there any reason my /var/log partition is being filled up by a zypper.log file each night. As soon as I delete the file up pops another the following time zypper update runs. I'm using openSUSE 11.1

...

Is there any way of stopping this log file without stopping the zypper update running?

Please fill a Bugzilla - fast!

See if you can compress that file (lzma, perhaps) and attach as most as possible to the bugzilla.

This a known problem, but nobody has filled a bugzilla with enough info for the devs to learn what is happening.

Uhh, what a huge thread :O) I'm not sure if anybody said that already, but this is probably https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=469872 I happens on network timeouts and should be fixed in Factory (zypper 1.1.0). The update for 11.1 is still pending. HTH - -- cheers, jano Ján Kupec YaST team - ---------------------------------------------------------(PGP)--- Key ID: 637EE901 Fingerprint: 93B9 C79B 2D20 51C3 800B E09B 8048 46A6 637E E901 - ---------------------------------------------------------(IRC)--- Server: irc.freenode.net Nick: jniq Channels: #zypp #yast #suse #susecz - ---------------------------------------------------------(EOF)--- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknVCtUACgkQgEhGpmN+6QF6xACfS8ZebS1Il/sCc1UuH/taIwxi q8AAniOzBpvf7REiVU3enUveaIWQbhd8 =jpDX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On 03/31/2009 08:25 PM, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

Graham Smith escribió:

...

Hi,

Is there any reason my /var/log partition is being filled up by a zypper.log file each night. As soon as I delete the file up pops another the following time zypper update runs. I'm using openSUSE 11.1

Is there any way of stopping this log file without stopping the zypper update running?

File a bug report , include the output of rpm -q cron logrotate zypper, tell us the bug number as well.

A bug report has already been filed (bnc#469872), and according to the report, a possible fix is in devel:/updatestack, along with other possible fixes (which are not well tested yet). It also says in Comment#8 in the report that they are not fixing bugs in the zypper version anymore. If only the PolicyKit plugin worked for me. It is kind of a catch 22 when using the kupdateapplet. I tried to use the applet to update today, noticed things were looking funny, checked /var/log and zypper.log was at 11.7GB. This is the correct bug report for this problem (I was able to check the end of the file with less, though it was slow.) So if I use the zypp plugin, updates work but might fill up my root. I just switched to PolicyKit plugin, which may now work (when I tried before it always said it could not get a transaction lock or something like that). -- Joe Morris Registered Linux user 231871 running openSUSE 11.1 x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 09:42:42PM +0800, Joe Morris wrote:

A bug report has already been filed (bnc#469872), and according to the report, a possible fix is in devel:/updatestack, along with other possible fixes (which are not well tested yet). It also says in Comment#8 in the report that they are not fixing bugs in the zypper version anymore.

Uh, further down it says that the fix will be in the next maintenance update (to be released soon). Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Jim Henderson escribió:

Not directed at you, Rodney, but can someone PLEASE explain why critical issues aren't being fixed in 11.0? I thought 11.0 was still being supported.

Most likely because there are no resources... -- "If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed" -George Carlin (1937-2008) Cristian Rodríguez R. Software Developer Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2009-03-31 at 19:16 -0000, Jim Henderson wrote:

...

...

Not directed at you, Rodney, but can someone PLEASE explain why critical issues aren't being fixed in 11.0? I thought 11.0 was still being supported.

Most likely because there are no resources...

Then they shouldn't say that 11.0 is still supported. Either it is and patches are backported, or it isn't and patches aren't backported.

AFAIK, the guaranteed support is for security patches only, the rest is optional. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknSce4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W8QACdHfdg23gRj8YwW/Bmd2G5R4U8 uQgAn33ZuooH4y/MLA2E7IhuEYJWQ/eG =ApTN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:42:45 +0200, Marcus Meissner wrote:

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 09:41:30PM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On Tuesday, 2009-03-31 at 19:16 -0000, Jim Henderson wrote:

...

...

...

Not directed at you, Rodney, but can someone PLEASE explain why critical issues aren't being fixed in 11.0? I thought 11.0 was still being supported.

Most likely because there are no resources...

Then they shouldn't say that 11.0 is still supported. Either it is and patches are backported, or it isn't and patches aren't backported.

AFAIK, the guaranteed support is for security patches only, the rest is optional.

Whether Bugfixes are done is decided on a case by case basis.

When I am back from sickleave I will have a look at it.

Thanks, Marcus, I appreciate it. Personally, I haven't run into this problem (or I'd have saved the log file for you guys to look at), but it is somewhat distressing to find things and be told "fixed in next release, won't fix in this release". I ran into that with a bug in gsynaptics not long after the 11.0 release and I had to fight to get that patch backported from the *pre-release* 11.1 (where it was fixed). Seems kinda silly to me to have to do that. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2009-04-01 at 01:37 -0000, Jim Henderson wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:41:30 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

AFAIK, the guaranteed support is for security patches only, the rest is optional.

I appreciate the reply - so please understand my frustration isn't directed at you Carlos.

This policy isn't very helpful to those who haven't upgraded to 11.1. We might just as well be on a continuous upgrade cycle every 8 months (based on the new release schedule).

Just like me, I'm using 11.0 >:-)

I can understand not wanting to "support" software that's 3-4 years old. 11.0 isn't that old. Even Microsoft provides updates beyond security patches only for versions of Windows older than the current release (XP + Vista right now IIRC). The Linux community keeps this mantra of "more eyes on the code", but we can't manage to provide better support for *one* previous release of a distro? C'mon, we're better than that.

The "security patches only" was the old SuSE policy and it hasn't changed much, it is how things are, and there are reasons for it (1). There are exceptions. Big bugs have some chance of being solved, small ones few chances. I don't work at suse, so I don't know which. If you want support, you are pointed to SLES. AFAIK, this problem affects few people in 11.0, most use 11.1; maybe there is some workaround. Marcus said he would have a look at it. Personally, as I'm not affected, I would prefer some other bug be attended to, hopefully some one that affects me! :-P (1) Packages do not get upgraded to another version during a distro life cycle (which is another long standing policy (2)); instead, when there is a problem the solution is backported, and as this requires some work, it is done only if really necessary, which means, security problems only. With some exceptions. This is done to avoid incompatibilities between new or upgraded packages, it add stability to the distro. Upgrading a package can add new problems that are unknown and untested. And it has worked fine for a long time, believe me :-) Other distros may do it different, but this is one of the strengths of suse. (2) Now, contrary to what I said above, you can get packages upgrades via the build service repositories; but these upgrades come "without support", are not included in the "oss" or "non-oss" repos, and will not get updates on the "update" repo. Thus, it could happen that this problem gets a solution on the appropriate repo, instead of an update. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknS0DoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VtVwCfbzqoGz0i2Emjt7b9IuTCzTsq +14An3IyhiOVKlVYh9LcbOK40J3LFtjM =+R+E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

That is, imho, one of the most thoughtfully written absolutely-spot-on commentaries I've read in awhile here! I've been bitten by these issues myself more than a couple of times ... I do find it somewhat ironic that @ the same time, we're already looking forward to 11.2: http://zonker.opensuse.org/2009/03/31/opensuse-112-makes-top-25-anticipated-... Here's hoping that Jim's comments get some traction. On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 9:23 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 04:23:44 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

This policy isn't very helpful to those who haven't upgraded to 11.1. We might just as well be on a continuous upgrade cycle every 8 months (based on the new release schedule).

Just like me, I'm using 11.0 >:-)

Common ground to build on. :-)

...

The "security patches only" was the old SuSE policy and it hasn't changed much, it is how things are, and there are reasons for it (1). There are exceptions. Big bugs have some chance of being solved, small ones few chances. I don't work at suse, so I don't know which.

I can appreciate that, but sometimes a little shake isn't a bad thing. :-)

I do work for Novell myself (not as part of the group that handles Linux, though) as I've mentioned before.

...

If you want support, you are pointed to SLES.

Actually, the way it is, if you want community support, openSUSE is the way to go. If you want "professional" support, then something that comes with a support contract (SLES or SLED depending on need) is the way to go.

I'm a home user with openSUSE.  It's easy to say "go buy SLED", but that's not a desktop targeted at my market segment.  openSUSE is.  But I also don't think that discussion of backporting patches should be shut down with "if you want support, use SLE rather than openSUSE".  That kinda says that the community support model doesn't work - but we all know that's not the case.

...

AFAIK, this problem affects few people in 11.0, most use 11.1; maybe there is some workaround. Marcus said he would have a look at it. Personally, as I'm not affected, I would prefer some other bug be attended to, hopefully some one that affects me! :-P

Could be, and as it doesn't affect me either (at this point), I'm not overly keen on a fix for it specifically - at least until I run into it. But the policy of not backporting patches for fairly serious issues - even as I mentioned with the gsynaptics bug I ran into that was fixed in 11.1 before 11.1 was released and originally was not going to be backported to 11.0 - even though it was the *current* release - seems just silly to me and worthy of discussion within the community.

That way when a bug that's critical does hit me, my only solution isn't to use a community-contributed patch through OBS (which can create its own problems as many have noted in the discussions about 1-click installs and such) or to upgrade my entire distro and pray I don't break something like iFolder which isn't provided by openSUSE directly.

...

(1) Packages do not get upgraded to another version during a distro life cycle (which is another long standing policy

Yep, aware of that one.  Currently using the unstable OO 3.x repo for that because OO is still on 2.x in 11.0.  I'm fine with that.

...

(2)); instead, when there is a problem the solution is backported, and as this requires some work, it is done only if really necessary, which means, security problems only. With some exceptions.

Sure.  This discussion came up with regards to another library update some months ago as well - a library that encfs depends on that broken encfs in 11.0.  Again, fairly critical issue to those who use encfs because they couldn't get into their encrypted directories.  I forget which dependency it was now that was broken - boost, I think - but encfs was completely broken when 11.0 shipped and the fix was originally only going to be put into 11.1 and not 11.0, even though it WAS totally broken in 11.0.

To the team's credit, after much gnashing of teeth, the fixed boost package was put into the update channel.  But IMHO it should have been obvious that forcing people to upgrade to the just-released 11.1 to fix a totally reproducible problem with encfs not working at all on 11.0 as shipped rather than providing a patch to the library that broke it was the right call, and it really shouldn't (again IMHO) taken the amount of pressure to get that patch backported to 11.0 given the severity of the issue.

I used to be a RedHat user, and I certainly wouldn't go back after having been a SUSE user for the last 5-6 years (nor would I switch to another distro - that's not going to solve the problem with openSUSE either).  I find the distro superior in every way over the others, and "threatening" to leave doesn't solve anything.  I think people who do that are being pretty childish, actually - the "I'll take my ball and leave" tends to leave OSS communities (and others) thinking "gee, what a prick" and "good riddance to bad rubbish".

...

This is done to avoid incompatibilities between new or upgraded packages, it add stability to the distro. Upgrading a package can add new problems that are unknown and untested.

Sure, and I can appreciate the complexities of managing this as well.

...

And it has worked fine for a long time, believe me :-) Other distros may do it different, but this is one of the strengths of suse.

Sure, at the same time, wouldn't it be great if the strength could be maintained and we get critical issues fixed in currently supported releases?  That'd be awesome.

As a user of openSUSE, I accept that an update might break things for me.  I hope it doesn't.  But even more than that, I hope that when something's broken, I can get it fixed through 'official' channels, and if that fix breaks something else, I accept the responsibility to report that it caused a problem, what the problem is, and to provide as much detailed information as I can to get the problem fixed.  If I was a hard- core coder, I'd probably contribute patches myself, but I generally don't trust my coding enough to do that.

So instead I offer whatever I can to the developers who do write the fixes so they can fix the problems.  That's my contribution to the process, and honestly I wish more users of openSUSE would take my approach rather than just "yell and forget about it" when they run into a problem.  As a user of the product, I'm a member of the community and I want to give back in any way I am able to.  That's how we make a better product, right?

Jim

--  Jim Henderson  Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 07:42:18 -0400, Michael S. Dunsavage wrote:

On Tue, 2009-03-31 at 23:11 -0700, PGNet wrote:

...

That is, imho, one of the most thoughtfully written absolutely-spot-on commentaries I've read in awhile here! I've been bitten by these issues myself more than a couple of times ..

I concur, how dare he be thoughtful and level-headed.

Hehehehehe, it was bound to happen sooner or later. :-) Thanks to both of you for your supportive comments. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:15:13 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday, 2009-04-01 at 04:23 -0000, Jim Henderson wrote:

[...]

...

a problem. As a user of the product, I'm a member of the community and I want to give back in any way I am able to. That's how we make a better product, right?

I have to agree with all you have said... :-)

I'd like this post to go to the project list, where the right audience is, but I leave that to you.

Feel free to send along to whomever you feel is appropriate - I'm not subscribed to the project list myself; as a new user (I see it is on gmane and am adding it to my list now), I wouldn't want to seem presumptuous on that list to come in and start off with this message. :-)

Yes, I agree that big issues should be "repaired" on the same distro version, but I don't know if there are enough resources for that. Currently we have to wait for the next release to solve that, which usually means that a new set of bugs will be "released" too. At the end, we just have to choose which set of bugs we can live with, and choose the corresponding suse release.

Certainly, but again I would point back at the common argument that the community is bigger than Microsoft's development workforce as an advantage - this statement would seem to contradict the assertion that one of the benefits of OSS is that it's a community effort instead of a relative handful of software developers.

Currently, I'm staying with 11.0 because there are bugs in 11.1 that impede me upgrading. The main one was that beagle exercised some functionality in reiserfs that was broken and caused the kernel to crash. This has been repaired with the last kernel update, but alas! now my machine does not fully suspend to disk because it doesn't power off at the last moment - and as this feature is part of my work routine, I can't live without it, so, --> no upgrade.

Interesting - another reason to consider disabling beagle. I have mentioned before that I use beagle on occasion, and I find the idea good (and it generally works for me), but the implementation does leave something to be desired (and I'm sure plenty on this list would say "at least!", so let's not reignite that old discussion, please. ;-) )

At the same time, there are features in 11.0 that are broken: for instance, writing to an external HD via USB, formatted as reiserfs, is badly broken, which means that I have to boot 10.3 or 11.1 to do my saving.

Weird, I have an external USB drive on my x86_64 system that is reiserfs and seems to work OK. I even export it over NFS. Is there a bug that I should be looking at that talks about this issue?

Or, another is that mounting LUKS encrypted, reiserfs formatted, read-only media (DVD) is broken because the kernel tries to _write_ on the dvd. Another one that is broken, is that writing big files to an XFS, encrypted, filesystem crashes the system.

I consider all those big issues... but I have no hope of seeing any of them solved soon. Not in 11.0, perhaps not even in 11.1. Those things have been appearing over the last 2 years, they are slowly deteriorating. I expect things that work to keep working... but it is not the case, things are breaking and they are not solved.

I understand your frustration - as you probably guessed. At the same time, though, these particular issues would seem to affect even potentially a small group of users. Things like zypper creating huge log files potentially affect everyone - or boost breaking encfs (encfs has some popularity from what I've seen). I understand the need to prioritise the issues and work on the most serious ones, and fully support that of course....

Effort seem to concentrate on highly visible features, like kde4.

...but things like KDE4 (which, like it or not, for 11.0 was something of a disaster from a PR standpoint at the very least) do distract from things that affect all users. KDE4 issues don't affect me because I'm a GNOME user. Core issues in KDE4, though, are best addressed IMHO by the KDE team and not the openSUSE team. The encfs/boost issue is a packaging/ build issue for the distro. KDE4's usability problems aren't, so I'd consider that a different class of issue to be addressed by a different group of people. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:30:44 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

...

I'd like this post to go to the project list, where the right audience is, but I leave that to you.

Feel free to send along to whomever you feel is appropriate - I'm not subscribed to the project list myself; as a new user (I see it is on gmane and am adding it to my list now), I wouldn't want to seem presumptuous on that list to come in and start off with this message. :-)

Ah, then, we'll leave it for some other time :-)

PGNet has offered to do so, with my permission. I just don't like to make a huge splash as my first post in a community I'm not established at all in. I like to get a feel for it first.

The community is big, but surely, bugs have to be handled by the maintainer, or somebody with that kind of knowledge. I can't, for instance. I can report bugs, do complicated tests, perhaps some scripts, but that's about all. Ah, yes, I do part of the translation to Spanish. I can't "repair" bugs.

Patches for the bugs and testing doesn't necessarily have to be handled by the maintainer. The maintainer has to just accept the patch and coordinate testing. I don't know if this is how it's done, but it seems to me that the maintainer is kinda like a product/project manager. For smaller packages/ distros this function could be rolled into a single person who does the coding/testing/patching, but for larger package groups, distros, etc, it seems that the build-test-fix cycle could be handled by anyone who the maintainer trusts to do the job correctly. Otherwise you fall back into a monolithic design process, which isn't very nimble. For some projects that lack of agility is fine, but for a large distro like openSUSE, I would think the ability to react quickly would be desirable. Not saying that the team doesn't react quickly - I don't want the team to think I'm knocking them. That's not my intention. They've put out an excellent distro, as I said before. But there's no system of processes that cannot be improved upon.

at fault, beagle simply used a function that was there, but faulty, unknown to all. In the great scheme of things, it was a good thing that beagle provoked the fault so that it could be cleared.

Meaning, it could have happened with some other program.

Interesting, thanks for that tidbit.

...

Weird, I have an external USB drive on my x86_64 system that is reiserfs and seems to work OK. I even export it over NFS. Is there a bug that I should be looking at that talks about this issue?

Maybe only 32bit systems are affected, or there is something special in my hardware. No idea. It is bug 460020, if you are curious.

Thanks, I'll have a look, if only just to see if my data might be affected. I'll also, if appropriate, tack a note on to say whether or not I'm affected on the 64-bit system, in the event that helps narrow the problem down. Though now I think of it, I have a 32-bit laptop in the office that I also use external USB on and I don't see any corruption, but I use that drive mostly so I have a local copy of some data when I'm working from home, so it gets written more than read by a longshot.

...

I understand your frustration - as you probably guessed. At the same time, though, these particular issues would seem to affect even potentially a small group of users. Things like zypper creating huge log files potentially affect everyone - or boost breaking encfs (encfs has some popularity from what I've seen).

True. But it seems that users of 11.0 are not usually affected by this huge log issue :-?

The encfs trouble I haven't seen myself, I don't use it.

It was very easy to reproduce. Use encfs to create an encrypted filesystem. fusermount -u it. Try to remount it. No go.

...

I understand the need to prioritise the issues and work on the most serious ones, and fully support that of course....

That's right.

But what preoccupies me, is that things that should be rock solid, as the filesystem, are not so solid. I found some "holes", there are probably more, lurking there. That scares me a lot: just imagine we bump into something that destroys data in big chunks, the nightmare!

I've seen that happen with commercial software as well. There was a patch for a version of NetWare (my server OS background) that in some circumstances would lead to volume corruption. Wasn't caught in testing, and required very specific hardware and even firmware revisions to duplicate (hence why it wasn't caught in system test). Data loss is almost always a nasty proposition.

My troubles might then be just the tip of the iceberg.

Could be.

Maybe some effort should be given to do a... full review? of the entire filesystem code, specially the lest used ones. Sharks could be lurking there. I guess that a lot of patches are going on bits over here or there, and that the code is becoming "unclean". It is a feeling, I don't know how to explain it. I hope to be wrong.

Maybe, but that would be something for the kernel team to decide on, I think.

...

...

Effort seem to concentrate on highly visible features, like kde4.

...but things like KDE4 (which, like it or not, for 11.0 was something of a disaster from a PR standpoint at the very least) do distract from things that affect all users. KDE4 issues don't affect me because I'm a GNOME user. Core issues in KDE4, though, are best addressed IMHO by the KDE team and not the openSUSE team. The encfs/boost issue is a packaging/ build issue for the distro. KDE4's usability problems aren't, so I'd consider that a different class of issue to be addressed by a different group of people.

Correct.

:-) Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:35:52 +0200, Jan Kupec wrote:

Before accusing somebody of doing something bad, try harder to understand what are you talking about.

You misunderstand, I'm not "accusing somebody of doing something bad". I'm expressing frustration over something that I have run into personally before with "We fixed this in the next release, but won't backport to the current release", followed by tons of discussion, followed by the patch either being backported or not. It'd be difficult for me to have less understanding of something I've personally experienced. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rodney Baker wrote:

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 06:05:52 Jan Kupec wrote:

...

Jim Henderson wrote:

...

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 01:04:37 +1030, Rodney Baker wrote:

...

(it is marked as WONTFIX for 11.0). *And* *here* *we* *go* *again*.

Not directed at you, Rodney, but can someone PLEASE explain why critical issues aren't being fixed in 11.0? I thought 11.0 was still being supported. Just a misunderstanding, Rodney did not say which of the two bugs is marked wontfix.

That is true - I could have been more specific about which bug I was referring to as being marked WONTFIX (although I thought it was clear).

...

bug 487613 is far from being critical. Read the comments there.

The fix is also ridiculously trivial and therefore would be easy to roll out as an update (for those who can't fix it themselves).

Yes it's trivial. But the fix is one thing, rolling it out is another. We really can't afford back-porting of fixes to minor problems, due to resources it consumes and due to the risk of break something in the process. But rest assured we do consider whether to release an update carefully.

...

bug 469872 is, and it will be released for 11.1. But we did not consider releasing it for 11.0 so far (also, nobody reported the bug for 11.0). Did it happen to you on 11.0? If so, post a comment to that bug, so that we know.

But the comments on bug 487613 suggested that the symptoms were triggered by the problem detailed in bug 46987.

Quoting yourself (Jan) from c#7 on #487613, "...The size suggests that there was some kind of erroneous massive logging, i suspect bug 469872 (fixed, an update for 11.1 is pending). So the file has grown up in very short time, well before cron could execute logrotate."

And again on c#9, "OK, thanx. Note that until you apply the fix of bug 469872, which is yet to be released, the log can eventually grow again (it happens on network timeouts)."

Buf if the fix for 469872 is not to be release for 11.0 how can we apply it?

Please note that this discussion with Robert Williams that i had in bug 487613 lead us to conclusion that his problem was actually bug 469872. And Robert was on 11.1 (see comment #2 in 487613). Really, so far _nobody_ said that this rapid growth of zypper.log happens also on 11.0 (still, we're considering to release 469872)! One more time to sum it up: bug 487613 - zypp-refresh.log not rotated - _slowly_ grows, nothing serious, affects 11.0. bug 469872 - zypper.log grows to gigabytes in few seconds! Critical. Reported on 11.1 only. I hope i dissolved also the last traces of misunderstanding now :O)

Since bug 487613 was reported for 11.0 (not 11.1) it follows logically that 469872 more than likely also applies to 11.0 (even though it was reported

No, as noted above these two bugs are completely unrelated.

under 11.1), therefore the fix for 11.1 should also be applied to 11.0. If that is not the case, then 487613 is more likely *not* related to 469872...

Yes, exactly, they're not related at all. - -- cheers, jano Ján Kupec YaST team - ---------------------------------------------------------(PGP)--- Key ID: 637EE901 Fingerprint: 93B9 C79B 2D20 51C3 800B E09B 8048 46A6 637E E901 - ---------------------------------------------------------(IRC)--- Server: irc.freenode.net Nick: jniq Channels: #zypp #yast #suse #susecz - ---------------------------------------------------------(EOF)--- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknZ6ggACgkQgEhGpmN+6QGEpwCfT7cL1IldXsfc91Q1LxH4du43 tcoAniBjnfQ9EXFgOl8sesejUOmG3Xl0 =I2u0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

Rodney Baker wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009 22:26:56 Graham Smith wrote:

...

Hi,

Is there any reason my /var/log partition is being filled up by a zypper.log file each night. As soon as I delete the file up pops another the following time zypper update runs. I'm using openSUSE 11.1

Is there any way of stopping this log file without stopping the zypper update running?

-- Regards,

Graham Smith

Graham,

See bugzilla bug #469872 and #487613. A fix for 11.1 is pending (it is marked as WONTFIX for 11.0).

Cheers, Rodney.

That's how the developers tell you to kiss off... it's novell code for "We know our software is broken, but openSuSE isn't anything anymore other than a beta platform for SLES and SLED so if you want anything fixed dump your 9 month old install and move to the arguably less stable new release so you can help us find more bugs faster for our paying customers. WONT FIX -- but thank you for taking the time to track down the bugs in our code, you can pick up your consolation prize at the door;-) It's really kind of a kick in the nuts to your motivation to take your time to gather all the data and run the tests to jump up and go file another bug report isn't it? Been there. -- David C. Rankin, J.D.,P.E. Rankin Law Firm, PLLC 510 Ochiltree Street Nacogdoches, Texas 75961 Telephone: (936) 715-9333 Facsimile: (936) 715-9339 www.rankinlawfirm.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:46:18 Anders Johansson wrote:

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 12:43:27 David C. Rankin wrote:

...

That's how the developers tell you to kiss off... it's novell code for "We know our software is broken, but openSuSE isn't anything anymore other than a beta platform for SLES and SLED so if you want anything fixed dump your 9 month old install and move to the arguably less stable new release so you can help us find more bugs faster for our paying customers. WONT FIX -- but thank you for taking the time to track down the bugs in our code, you can pick up your consolation prize at the door;-)

Not really. WONTFIX means "this is a feature update or non-critical bug that is not included in our support promise".

...

It's really kind of a kick in the nuts to your motivation to take your time to gather all the data and run the tests to jump up and go file another bug report isn't it? Been there.

Would you read the bug report already? One developer said he didn't think it was a valid use case, but other developers chimed in immediately and said it was, and developed a fix for it. The bug is *not* marked as WONTFIX, it has in fact already been fixed. It is marked as "ASSIGNED" and is not being ignored

Anders

Which bug are you referring to, Anders? ------- Comment #9 From Jan Kupec 2009-03-31 05:19:00 MDT (-) ------- OK, thanx. Note that until you apply the fix of bug 469872, which is yet to be released, the log can eventually grow again (it happens on network timeouts). As for this bug report, it is fixed in 11.1, and i suggest to leave it unfixed for 11.0. As this is reported for 11.0, closing as WONTFIX. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This pertains to bug 487613 and sounds pretty definite to me, however you are correct re bug 469872 (which is assigned); what is not clear, however, is if the fix for 469872 is also being released for 11.0, or just 11.1. -- =================================================== Rodney Baker VK5ZTV rodney.baker@iinet.net.au ===================================================

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 15:22:05 +0200, Anders Johansson wrote:

Bug 487613 is not WONTFIX anymore, there will be an update for 11.0.

Cool, thanks for the update, Anders.

469872 should also get an update for 11.0, this is really the crucial bug, the other one is "just" for the missing logrotate script, which is minor.

Well, minor from a "how to fix it standpoint", but for those who aren't familiar with logrotate and how to configure it, filling the root partition is kinda a major issue. ;-) Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 12:44:02 pm Jim Henderson wrote:

...

469872 should also get an update for 11.0, this is really the crucial bug, the other one is "just" for the missing logrotate script, which is minor.

Well, minor from a "how to fix it standpoint", but for those who aren't familiar with logrotate and how to configure it, filling the root partition is kinda a major issue. ;-)

It is interesting that minor issue is not fixed with online update, at least for those that didn't touch logrotate configuration, which is 99.99% of users with a problem, it is trivial: check is it touched, if not replace it. The rest have fixed the problem by themselves, or will once they become aware of it. The logrotate is utility that made no problems for years, so even experienced users may have forgotten it exists. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:03:56 +0100, Anders Johansson wrote:

On Wednesday 01 April 2009 19:44:02 Jim Henderson wrote:

...

Well, minor from a "how to fix it standpoint", but for those who aren't familiar with logrotate and how to configure it, filling the root partition is kinda a major issue. ;-)

The point is that a missing logrotate script (assuming the other bug is fixed) will not fill up the root partition, since when things work, the log will grow at a very slow pace.

Right - at least the slow log growth is the expected behaviour.

It should still be fixed, but it's not the critical problem here

Agreed. In retrospect that is a bit of a sideshow to the main event. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse+help@opensuse.org